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  #26  
Unread 04-24-2019, 06:16 AM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Do you have your DC in Libra, by any chance?

Spouses and enemies are both indicated by the seventh house. It's pretty common for anyone who is either of those things to you - and for people in your life in general - to have significant placements in the sign of your DC, or that reflect your DC in some way. It may or may not be their sun sign, but if it's not, there's something else significant, like their moon or ascendant or something that gives them similar traits.

I have my DC in Cancer, and more of the people I've dated, or even had crushes on, have been Cancers than any other sun sign. Curiously enough, my longest lasting romantic relationship was with someone who has nothing at all in Cancer, but has lots of placements in my fifth and eighth houses, and has Taurus rising with a first house Taurus moon.
My DC is in Taurus. My husbands DC is in Scorpio. We have been together for 35 years. Most of the people I dated before that were Leo or Libra Sun. I don't know their charts.

I know the birthday, and place of birth of my enemy, but not the time. I have consciously avoided her chart......

I thought enemies were 12th house......or is that only secret or hidden enemies?

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  #27  
Unread 04-24-2019, 06:38 AM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

"I thought enemies were 12th house......or is that only secret or hidden enemies?"
The 12th is secret enemies, what happens behind your back, the 7th is open enemies, and also includes partners, spouses and lawyers.
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  #28  
Unread 04-24-2019, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
"I thought enemies were 12th house......or is that only secret or hidden enemies?"
The 12th is secret enemies, what happens behind your back, the 7th is open enemies, and also includes partners, spouses and lawyers.
Thank you!
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  #29  
Unread 04-24-2019, 12:44 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
My DC is in Taurus. My husbands DC is in Scorpio. We have been together for 35 years. Most of the people I dated before that were Leo or Libra Sun. I don't know their charts.

I know the birthday, and place of birth of my enemy, but not the time. I have consciously avoided her chart......

I thought enemies were 12th house......or is that only secret or hidden enemies?
All enemies that are known as such belong to 7th house

12th house warns of secret enemies

but
as soon as their existence is known
they are represented through the 7th house.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h7.html
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  #30  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:01 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Don't you find it intriguing that spouses and lawyers are also grouped in the same house with open enemies?
Is there a connection here?
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  #31  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:04 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Mostly agree with peoples here, except lawyers. Lawyers are Jupiterian actually. Represent at 9th house and 6th house [according to Western Hellenistic Thema Mundi]

Last edited by SunConjunctUranus; 04-24-2019 at 01:11 PM.
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  #32  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:11 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post


Don't you find it intriguing that spouses and lawyers

are also grouped in the same house with open enemies?
Is there a connection here?

Equally intriguing is the fact that 7th is the house of business partnerships
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post

Mostly agree with peoples here, except lawyers.
Lawyers are Jupiterian actually.
Agreed

nevertheless
Lawyers play an adversarial role for their business clients
i.e.

Lawyers act for clients who are in a state of enmity with each other
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  #33  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:13 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Jupiter,

Perhaps you are a wealthy Lawyer yourself seems to be. Lmao.
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  #34  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:13 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Mostly agree with peoples here, except lawyers. Lawyers are Jupiterian actually. Represent at 9th house and 6th house [according to Western Hellenistic Thema Mundi]
Lawyers are 7th house, along with thieves and fugitives.
Judges are 10th house, the jury 11th.
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  #35  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:19 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Lawyers are 7th house, along with thieves and fugitives.
Judges are 10th house, the jury 11th.
Hi ms Elena,

This following diagram would be helpful:



Excuse me, may I inquire that say otherwise? It would be very informative to know as such. Thank you.
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  #36  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:19 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post


Lawyers are 7th house, along with thieves and fugitives.
Judges are 10th house, the jury 11th.
In horary charts 7th house represents the astrologer
along with thieves and fugitives


and if heavily afflicted
the astrologer should pause before proceeding

as the judgement may be impaired or bring them damage.
This is especially so if the 7th-ruler is afflicted in the 10th house
which suggests harm to the professional reputation.

If the horary concerns a 7th house matter, however
the affliction may be describing the situation under consideration
in which case the warning is to proceed with diligence.
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  #37  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:22 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Hi ms Elena,

This following diagram would be helpful:



Excuse me, may I inquire that say otherwise? It would be very informative to know as such. Thank you.
Can you explain? What is this chart? Thanks
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  #38  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:27 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

*


Scholars and practitioners of law
are attributed to the 9th house
confusion often exists
as to whether lawyers
and those who enforce the law should be associated with this house
or the 10th.


In the sense that
9th house represents guidance
and advice
from those more knowledgeable
than ourselves
THEN
lawyers, counsellors and advisors
generally fall under the principles
of the 9th house
when they act in an advisory capacity.

IN CONTRAST
Law, as a means of enforcing a ruling over others
however, belongs to the 10th house
which is the house of authority and rulership.


Hence
lawyers
and solicitors
are attributed to the 9th

whereas judges and magistrates are attributed to the 10th.
If a matter of law is being considered with respect to a ruling
the decision or outcome should be judged from the 10th house
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  #39  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:29 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post

Can you explain? What is this chart? Thanks
It's the THEMA MUNDI

discussion and explanation thread at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...ht=thema+mundi
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 04-24-2019, 01:31 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Can you explain? What is this chart? Thanks
Ms Elena,

Of course, it's a pleasure. This is planetary concept from earlier astrology practitioner.

QUOTE:
"The origin of the traditional system of zodiacal sign rulerships lies is the mythical horoscope for the birth of the world known as the Thema Mundi. The Thema Mundi was used as a teaching tool or a conceptual device in Hellenistic astrology, and in that system it provided the rationale for sign rulership, the exaltations, the nature of the aspects, and certain significations of the signs.

Although there are a few different variations of the lore surrounding the Thema Mundi, all versions have Cancer rising with the Moon in Cancer and the Sun in Leo, with the rest of the visible planets fanning out in zodiacal order based on their relative speed and distance from the Sun.

The Thema Mundi has Cancer rising partly due to an older Mesopotamian belief that the conjunction of all of the planets in the signs of Cancer and Capricorn indicated the periodic creation and destruction of the world. According to legends ascribed to the early 3rd century BCE Mesopotamian astrologer Berossus, when all of the planets are conjoined in Cancer was said to indicate the destruction of the world by a great flood, and when they all conjoin in the the sign Capricorn it was said to indicate the destruction of the world by fire.

Another reason for the Cancer ascendant is probably the fact that in Egypt, where Hellenistic astrology likely developed, the heliacal rising of the fixed star Sirius in the mid summer would indicate the annual flooding of the Nile river. Sirius was the 1st star in the Egyptian decanic calendar which was used to designate the beginning of the Egyptian year."

http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2...e-thema-mundi/
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  #41  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:39 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Marc Edmond Jones in his book Horary Astrology, describes the 7th house as follows:
"The seventh house is important because it indicates the major relationships, in joint interest or equal status, of people and things linked together in any immediate crisis or problem.
This means all direct partnerships and contracts, such as in marriage or business, and also the equally direct contact in opposition represented by disputes, contests, warfare and conflicts of every sort, whether in enmity or friendship.... the basic idea is simple cooperation, of which the commonest manifestation is marriage. It is thus quite impartial in disclosing the reciprocal activities of life as both co-operative and unfriendly, and in showing competitors and competition as both menace and stimulation or opportunity. It fundamentally indicates the critical focus of a general potentiality in any question or crisis, or the immediate concern of everything else in general with that matter which has been brought to the point of consultation or conference.... All legal action is placed in the seventh house, including the lawyers on both sides; but with the judge taken as an umpire and located in the tenth, and with the jury... assigned to the eleventh as the special "resource" of the magistrate or legal jurisdiction... In the rare instance where it is necessary to differentiate between the attorneys for the plaintiff and defendant in a lawsuit, the querent's legal representation is found in the normal position at the seventh, and the opponent's lawyer or lawyers are identified by the first."
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  #42  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:44 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Oh okay, I know him, he constructed sabian bounds too. Thanks for the information.
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  #43  
Unread 04-24-2019, 01:45 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Marc Edmond Jones in his book Horary Astrology, describes the 7th house as follows:
"The seventh house is important because it indicates the major relationships, in joint interest or equal status, of people and things linked together in any immediate crisis or problem.
This means all direct partnerships and contracts, such as in marriage or business, and also the equally direct contact in opposition represented by disputes, contests, warfare and conflicts of every sort, whether in enmity or friendship.... the basic idea is simple cooperation, of which the commonest manifestation is marriage. It is thus quite impartial in disclosing the reciprocal activities of life as both co-operative and unfriendly, and in showing competitors and competition as both menace and stimulation or opportunity. It fundamentally indicates the critical focus of a general potentiality in any question or crisis, or the immediate concern of everything else in general with that matter which has been brought to the point of consultation or conference.... All legal action is placed in the seventh house, including the lawyers on both sides; but with the judge taken as an umpire and located in the tenth, and with the jury... assigned to the eleventh as the special "resource" of the magistrate or legal jurisdiction... In the rare instance where it is necessary to differentiate between the attorneys for the plaintiff and defendant in a lawsuit, the querent's legal representation is found in the normal position at the seventh, and the opponent's lawyer or lawyers are identified by the first."
HOUSE RULERSHIPS IN PRACTICE book by Deborah Houlding
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h9.html
Scholars and practitioners of law
are attributed to the 9th house
confusion often exists
as to whether lawyers
and those who enforce the law should be associated with this house
or the 10th.
In the sense that
9th house represents guidance
and advice
from those more knowledgeable
than ourselves
THEN
lawyers, counsellors and advisors
generally fall under the principles
of the 9th house
when they act in an advisory capacity.


IN CONTRAST
Law, as a means of enforcing a ruling over others
however, belongs to the 10th house
which is the house of authority and rulership.

Hence
lawyers
and solicitors
are attributed to the 9th
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #44  
Unread 04-24-2019, 05:44 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Don't you find it intriguing that spouses and lawyers are also grouped in the same house with open enemies?
Is there a connection here?
The seventh house is the house of partnership. One-on-one relationships.

Spouses are partners for obvious reasons. So is anyone you have a partnership with that works for your benefit. If you have a lawyer, they're your partner for the purpose of whatever you hired them for: defending you in court, making your will, whatever it is. For the same reason, your therapist or doctor or acupuncturist - or your astrologer, for that matter - would be seventh house, when we're talking about them in relation to you. So, arguably, is your best friend if you have one - that's a one-on-one relationship too.

An enemy or rival is also your partner, if you think about it. If you actively dislike someone, you're spending some significant time and energy on thinking about them, reacting to them, perhaps planning your actions regarding them. (That ties back to the original subject of this thread, in fact: if there's someone you want to get revenge on, that you're focused enough on them to be plotting revenge makes them a seventh house person for you.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Mostly agree with peoples here, except lawyers. Lawyers are Jupiterian actually. Represent at 9th house and 6th house [according to Western Hellenistic Thema Mundi]
It depends on what context we're talking about the lawyer in. Law as a profession is ninth house, traditionally. But the lawyer in relation to the client is seventh house: that's a contractual relationship, and a partnership. Sixth house makes sense if you're considering the service aspect of being a lawyer, and perhaps the intense dedication to work and study that it takes to be one. Sixth house is also the house of apprenticeship, and the traditional way to become a lawyer, for centuries, was through apprenticeship and mentoring. Law school is a fairly recent invention.
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  #45  
Unread 04-24-2019, 07:58 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post


The seventh house is the house of partnership. One-on-one relationships.

Spouses are partners for obvious reasons. So is anyone you have a partnership with that works for your benefit. If you have a lawyer, they're your partner for the purpose of whatever you hired them for: defending you in court, making your will, whatever it is. For the same reason, your therapist or doctor or acupuncturist - or your astrologer, for that matter - would be seventh house, when we're talking about them in relation to you. So, arguably, is your best friend if you have one - that's a one-on-one relationship too.

An enemy or rival is also your partner, if you think about it. If you actively dislike someone, you're spending some significant time and energy on thinking about them, reacting to them, perhaps planning your actions regarding them. (That ties back to the original subject of this thread, in fact: if there's someone you want to get revenge on, that you're focused enough on them to be plotting revenge makes them a seventh house person for you.)


It depends on what context we're talking about the lawyer in. Law as a profession is ninth house, traditionally. But the lawyer in relation to the client is seventh house: that's a contractual relationship, and a partnership. Sixth house makes sense if you're considering the service aspect of being a lawyer, and perhaps the intense dedication to work and study that it takes to be one. Sixth house is also the house of apprenticeship, and the traditional way to become a lawyer, for centuries, was through apprenticeship and mentoring. Law school is a fairly recent invention.
Thank you Osamenor for that clear, cogent clarification
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  #46  
Unread 04-25-2019, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post
I have been reading some history and it seems like Libra is one sign which is never given any credit for delivering revenge and punishment. Genghis Khan was one famous example that had a Libra Mars, where it is debilitated, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Libra is balancing the scale meaning that a wrong has to be righted but given the signs exaltation in Saturn, it also means that it will wait and have the discipline to go in for the kill.

Astrologers say Scorpio but in my opinion, the sign itself is more bark than bite and a lot of that stuff is written by modern astrologers, usually Scorpios, desperately wanting to be seen as strong. Most of the times I have found that this sign sabotages itself more than it does others, making itself look like an idiot in order to get revenge.

I think it makes sense because Mars is the ancient ruler of the sign and Mars is brash, not really that tactical, and acts on impulse. It is too emotional and doesn't think strategically.

The other signs? I'd say Venus ruled signs are actually the ones with the worst bad side. Mars is punch you in the face and tear apart your tires, Venus is ruin your reputation so bad that you cannot find a job and have to live in poverty due to the damage strategically being done.

It seems like Taurus and Libra are the signs that once angered, cannot be stopped.

So what aspects would make someone good at this?

I think Squares and oppositions for one.

Any bad aspect to Saturn or even Saturn aspects in general will give someone the strategic mind needed to do revenge right.
Beautifully said.

I too am a libra sun with Pluto (my ascendant ruler) in libra in 12th house.

I know from experience that justice comes. Even if it takes many years. Why? Because I'm determined in my head the whole time. I keep the truth in my head and keep the faith with God. I prayed to god. When it comes to ppl who are psychopaths and those with npd, I have learnt techniques to deal with them. You can never expose these ppl to their face, you do it behind the scenes in subtle ways. All of the villains in my life got their karma, but it took years. U don't even have to say anything. The energy is there and they know it.
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  #47  
Unread 04-25-2019, 04:49 AM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Soooo...in my natal, when I was unaware she was my enemy.....she would have been 12th house.......and now that she is a known enemy.....she is 7th........
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  #48  
Unread 04-25-2019, 05:55 AM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Ms Elena,

Of course, it's a pleasure. This is planetary concept from earlier astrology practitioner.

QUOTE:
"The origin of the traditional system of zodiacal sign rulerships lies is the mythical horoscope for the birth of the world known as the Thema Mundi. The Thema Mundi was used as a teaching tool or a conceptual device in Hellenistic astrology, and in that system it provided the rationale for sign rulership, the exaltations, the nature of the aspects, and certain significations of the signs.

Although there are a few different variations of the lore surrounding the Thema Mundi, all versions have Cancer rising with the Moon in Cancer and the Sun in Leo, with the rest of the visible planets fanning out in zodiacal order based on their relative speed and distance from the Sun.

The Thema Mundi has Cancer rising partly due to an older Mesopotamian belief that the conjunction of all of the planets in the signs of Cancer and Capricorn indicated the periodic creation and destruction of the world. According to legends ascribed to the early 3rd century BCE Mesopotamian astrologer Berossus, when all of the planets are conjoined in Cancer was said to indicate the destruction of the world by a great flood, and when they all conjoin in the the sign Capricorn it was said to indicate the destruction of the world by fire.

Another reason for the Cancer ascendant is probably the fact that in Egypt, where Hellenistic astrology likely developed, the heliacal rising of the fixed star Sirius in the mid summer would indicate the annual flooding of the Nile river. Sirius was the 1st star in the Egyptian decanic calendar which was used to designate the beginning of the Egyptian year."

http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2...e-thema-mundi/
Thanks Sun!
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  #49  
Unread 04-25-2019, 09:26 PM
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
Soooo...in my natal, when I was unaware she was my enemy.....she would have been 12th house.......and now that she is a known enemy.....she is 7th........
I think it depends on how you came to be enemies. And what kind of enmity this is. Frenemies? Rivals? Neighbors who don't get along? Work competitors who hate each other personally as well as professionally? Is there a history of someone "stealing" someone else's love interest (I put that in quotes because love interests can't be stolen without their consent), or getting a promotion that the other wanted, or suing the other? Is this an ongoing thing, or a "she did x to me however many years ago, so I hate her forever" thing?

It's one thing if you were friends first, then discovered her plotting against you or betraying your trust--that would be a very twelfth house thing. It's another if you disliked her from the moment you met. It's another if you've always had some sort of open rivalry. It's still another if you have some other kind of relationship, like neighbors, say, or family.

But, when we're reading your natal chart, I think the most relevant piece, whether we're considering the seventh house or the twelfth, is how you yourself handle being enemies. That's what's really going to turn up in the natal.

And maybe a tendency to perceive enemies will. One of my astro friends has a twelfth house Venus/Neptune conjunction, and a strong tendency to believe that people, especially women, are jealous of her, or plotting against her, or (in one case she related to me) trying to steal her husband (who actually doesn't seem to be at all stealable, but that's another story). Based on what I know of these situations, it's rarely if ever true. What does stand out for me is that she has a tendency to believe it. And a huge challenge, for her, is figuring out whether there is or isn't any merit to her belief. That's a very twelfth house thing. With seventh house, you would know straight up who's really against you, and who isn't.

I'm toying with the idea that it may be a very twelfth house thing to believe that people are against you, whether or not they actually are. Perhaps that's also where the OP for this thread came up with what seems to be a bit of an obsession with revenge: is s/he perhaps working through twelfth house issues? (Could be seventh house as well, but seventh house seems much more clean and open to me.)

Now, if we were doing horary, the twelfth house for the horary chart might very clearly indicate a secret enemy, and the seventh house an open one. If you asked a horary question about this enemy of yours, I'd expect her to be signified by your seventh house (unless you have some other relationship, like neighbors or family or being in the same friend group - that would turn up with the significator of the house for whatever she is to you: third for a neighbor or sibling, eleventh for social circle, or any of the many other houses that signify various family members if she's a member of your family but not your sister). But if you'd asked a horary question about something she was doing to you, before you saw her as an enemy, and you didn't know she was doing that to you, she probably would've been signified by the twelfth house.
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Unread 04-25-2019, 10:06 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Revenge, getting even, and master at destroying someone's life.

Yes, the 12th would be what is going on behind your back, and what is going on under the surface, including your subconscious.
The 7th is more up front and out in the open.
So, if you discover a 12th house person and bring them out in the open, do they become a 7th house? Good question.
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