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  #26  
Unread 09-30-2018, 08:46 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

I heard that Rudhyar was sort of dictatorial in his classes. His way or the highway.

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  #27  
Unread 09-30-2018, 07:28 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
I heard that Rudhyar was sort of dictatorial in his classes. His way or the highway.
Interesting bit of trivia (or maybe not trivia). Rudhyar was a student in Saussure's Course on General Linguistics, which is where he met Marc Edmund Jones. Claude Levi Strauss was another alumnus.

The course was kind of nuts, maybe the worst thing about it was that it built the house that the deconstructionists tore down, it was the first link in the horrible chain of post-modernism. I'd say Rudhyar's work accurately reflects this.
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  #28  
Unread 09-30-2018, 08:35 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
Interesting bit of trivia (or maybe not trivia). Rudhyar was a student in Saussure's Course on General Linguistics, which is where he met Marc Edmund Jones. Claude Levi Strauss was another alumnus.

The course was kind of nuts, maybe the worst thing about it was that it built the house that the deconstructionists tore down, it was the first link in the horrible chain of post-modernism. I'd say Rudhyar's work accurately reflects this.
Hi Oddity

Could say a bit more about this please? Like what the house was and how it relates to Rudhyar's work.

Many thanks. Best wishes

Miquar
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  #29  
Unread 09-30-2018, 08:37 PM
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

I read enough to find I agree with Rudhyar's opinion that H12 isn't necessarily a House of misfortune and "undoing". Anyone know how he handled the "Malefic/Benefic" dichotomy ?
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  #30  
Unread 09-30-2018, 08:41 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post


I read enough to find I agree with Rudhyar's opinion

that H12 isn't necessarily a House of misfortune and "undoing".

Anyone know how he handled the "Malefic/Benefic" dichotomy ?
Siriusly, fact is
All current seven billion inhabitants of planet Earth
experience/have experienced at some stage
"misfortune and/or self-undoing"
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  #31  
Unread 09-30-2018, 08:45 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Siriusly, fact is
All current seven billion inhabitants of planet Earth
experience/have experienced at some stage
"misfortune and/or self-undoing"
In EACH and EVERY House.
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  #32  
Unread 09-30-2018, 08:47 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

The coursebook is online, it was written down by Saussure's students, and eventually translated to English: https://monoskop.org/images/0/0b/Sau...stics_1959.pdf

I think you'll find some astrological common ground with signifiers and signifieds.

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Hi Oddity

Could say a bit more about this please? Like what the house was and how it relates to Rudhyar's work.

Many thanks. Best wishes

Miquar
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  #33  
Unread 09-30-2018, 08:50 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

I read enough to find I agree with Rudhyar's opinion
that H12 isn't necessarily a House of misfortune and "undoing".
Anyone know how he handled the "Malefic/Benefic" dichotomy ?
Siriusly, fact is
All current seven billion inhabitants of planet Earth
experience/have experienced at some stage
"misfortune and/or self-undoing"
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

In EACH and EVERY House.
obviously ruler of house twelve
may be located in any of the twelve houses
and aspect other planets in other houses
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  #34  
Unread 09-30-2018, 09:22 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Are you saying the ruler of H12, Jupiter included, automatically becomes a Malefic for that reason?
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  #35  
Unread 09-30-2018, 09:30 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Are you saying the ruler of H12, Jupiter included, automatically becomes a Malefic for that reason?
It does not become an accidental malefic in all traditions, but everyone will agree that it is less benefic by not ruling an important/good house. The Indian and to some extent Arabic traditions utilize accidental maleficence to a considerable degree. Note that malefics are not always bad, are just so-held, and it does not mean that they never bring any good with bad. Modern astrologers should not confuse the benefic and malefic distinction with good (God) and evil (Satan), think pagan bad, or just that cold and dry qualities are sometimes useful in society (for example in surgery or overthrowing a corrupt government). In medieval astrology, the 12th rules monasteries and prisons, yet most people do no think of those places as places of satan (although they could be as much as one's home).

Last edited by petosiris; 09-30-2018 at 09:40 PM.
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  #36  
Unread 09-30-2018, 10:13 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

They can certainly become accidental malefics based on house rulership, though. That's me speaking from being pretty rooted in the Perso-Arabic tradition (which has quite a bit of crossover with Jyotish).

I've got a great Venus - exalted, unafflicted, and ruling my 6th and 10th houses. Tenth house it hasn't done me badly, albeit Jupiter sits on my MC too, but 6th? Heavy Venus-Jupiter stuff going on in my chart and my diabetes invariably gets worse.

Weirdly? No family history, and I have to struggle to come up to a normal weight.
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  #37  
Unread 09-30-2018, 11:25 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
The coursebook is online, it was written down by Saussure's students, and eventually translated to English: https://monoskop.org/images/0/0b/Sau...stics_1959.pdf

I think you'll find some astrological common ground with signifiers and signifieds.
Hi Oddity. Thanks for the link. Having had a brief look I can see that the relationship between individual and collective would have come into clearer focus for Rudhyar through this course. But did your previous post imply that, as a result of this teaching, Rudhyar's work is constructed in a particular way, and that this needs to be taken into account when reading his stuff? If so, what do think is the essence of this structure? Or if not, what - in your opinion - is the influence which this teaching has had on Rudhyar's approach?

Many thanks. Best wishes,

Miquar
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  #38  
Unread 09-30-2018, 11:38 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

With regard to the benefic/malefic issue, Rudhyar seems to be saying that the important thing is to meet each experience in a spirit of openness - with a willingness to become what you actually are. To say that a part of you is malefic is at odds with this approach - an example of why cultural conditioning must be overcome in order for the potential inherent in the individual to blossom fully.
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  #39  
Unread 09-30-2018, 11:53 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
Interesting bit of trivia (or maybe not trivia). Rudhyar was a student in Saussure's Course on General Linguistics, which is where he met Marc Edmund Jones. Claude Levi Strauss was another alumnus.

The course was kind of nuts, maybe the worst thing about it was that it built the house that the deconstructionists tore down, it was the first link in the horrible chain of post-modernism. I'd say Rudhyar's work accurately reflects this.
His work is post-modernist? My desire to read from him has gone down considerably.
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  #40  
Unread 10-01-2018, 12:18 AM
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

What's the definition of post-modernist?
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  #41  
Unread 10-01-2018, 12:28 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
His work is post-modernist? My desire to read from him has gone down considerably.
He was a structualist. The deconstructionists came along and tore down the house the structuralists built, thinking themselves o-so-clever for it. Then the deconstructionists turned into post-modernists.
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  #42  
Unread 10-01-2018, 12:29 AM
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
He was a structualist. The deconstructionists came along and tore down the house the structuralists built, thinking themselves o-so-clever for it. Then the deconstructionists turned into post-modernists.
Any well-known deconstructionists?
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  #43  
Unread 10-01-2018, 12:38 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Most people, while strolling through the 12th house, would probably not send a postcard saying "Having a wonderful time."

It is after you emerge, with time and hindsight, that you may recognize the good.
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  #44  
Unread 10-01-2018, 12:38 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

You mean like Derrida or Julia Kristeva and the Tel Quel crowd, Roland Barthes, Michel Foucault, Lacan, those folks?

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Any well-known deconstructionists?
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  #45  
Unread 10-01-2018, 12:51 AM
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

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You mean like Derrida or Julia Kristeva and the Tel Quel crowd, Roland Barthes, Michel Foucault, Lacan, those folks?
They're well known?
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  #46  
Unread 10-01-2018, 12:54 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Most people, while strolling through the 12th house, would probably not send a postcard saying "Having a wonderful time."

It is after you emerge, with time and hindsight, that you may recognize the good.
Sounds like you think of H12 as a sort of hallway, or tunnel. Interesting!
Maybe a gateway to an alternative reality.

Last edited by david starling; 10-01-2018 at 12:58 AM.
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  #47  
Unread 10-01-2018, 08:36 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Hi. I hadn't much idea of what postmodernism is so I looked into it a bit. I can't see Rudhyar could be described as such. Sure, he was radical and felt that civilisation needs an overhaul, but he didn't claim that individuality is threatened by collectivity per se - but that true individuality and true collectivity unfold in tandem. He warns against ego-led rebellion against social participation.

Oddity, how do you see that?

Best wishes

Miquar
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  #48  
Unread 10-01-2018, 11:32 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

Most people, while strolling through the 12th house, would probably not
send a postcard saying "Having a wonderful time."
It is after you emerge, with time and hindsight
that you may recognize the good.
well put
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Sounds like
you think of
H12 as a sort of hallway, or tunnel.
Interesting!
Maybe a gateway to an alternative reality.
interesting interpretation of "strolling through a house"
one "strolls through" all twelve houses at some stage
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  #49  
Unread 10-01-2018, 11:46 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miquar View Post

With regard to the benefic/malefic issue, Rudhyar seems to be saying that
the important thing is to meet each experience in a spirit of openness
- with a willingness to become what you actually are.
To say that a part of you is malefic is at odds with this approach
- an example of why cultural conditioning must be overcome
in order for the potential inherent in the individual to blossom fully.
A test of four modern astrologers
who were asked to delineate the chart of John Wayne Gacy
but not told whose chart it was
had the following results:

QUOTE:

Four Modern Astrologers said Serial Killer John Wayne Gacy:

(1) "…can be very good with kids..."
(2) "...just your presence would be beneficial to other people..."
(3)"...a fairly well-rounded personality...you can offer a good role model..."
(4)"You have an instinctive awareness
and your uninhibited response to life can refresh and gladden
whomever you encounter."

IN CONTRAST
Traditional Astrology Says:
"...shows a strange mind and very wicked."

Gacy received 12 Death and 21 Life sentences for the murder of 33 boys.
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  #50  
Unread 10-01-2018, 01:10 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

That means there are hundreds of people born at the same time as Gacy who may be wicked, with strange minds!

Last edited by david starling; 10-01-2018 at 01:12 PM.
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