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  #1  
Unread 09-23-2018, 06:41 AM
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Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar and other things

Have you read works by Dane Rudhyar? Did you like what he said? What are his best works? I'm thinking about reading his work.

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Unread 09-24-2018, 05:27 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

I'd recommend reading him, as he was a big influence on the development of modern astrology, construed as a discipline for self-transformation. Enlightenment by the signs and houses.

My assessment? At first I thought this was pretty heady stuff.

Now I think it's cotton candy for the soul.
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  #3  
Unread 09-24-2018, 09:41 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

The book I found most practically useful by Rudhyar is The Lunation Cycle. It gives you a really in depth feel for the Moon in all its phases.
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Unread 09-25-2018, 04:38 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

I agree, Ilene-- this was a more practical book, and there aren't many available on moon phase.
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Unread 09-25-2018, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I'd recommend reading him, as he was a big influence on the development of modern astrology, construed as a discipline for self-transformation. Enlightenment by the signs and houses.

My assessment? At first I thought this was pretty heady stuff.

Now I think it's cotton candy for the soul.
Cotton candy....
Even so he's worth the read. His major work is "The Astrology of Personality". I have two of his books: The Lunation Cycle and An Astrological Mandala, his book on the Sabian Symbols. But in most cases I prefer the original work on the symbols by Jones.
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Unread 09-25-2018, 08:34 AM
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I guess Leila, sometime after Dane's death, passed his mantle on to Michael Meyer. Meyer seems to control Rudhyar's website now.

Poor guy went off the deep end and developed a messiah complex. His "A Handbook ...." is worth having.
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Unread 09-25-2018, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Have you read works by Dane Rudhyar? Did you like what he said? What are his best works? I'm thinking about reading his work.
App, on the Rudhyar website you'll find some good and useful articles.

His book on The Houses is a good one. I had it until it was stolen.

Here's the story on that...

I was living in Las Cruces, N.M., but was going to move back down to old Mexico. I packed my astrological library into two large suitcases and put them on the back seat of my car, then drove down to Juarez to enjoy a big bowl of pozole. I parked almost directly across the street from the busy 24-hour restaurant, under a street light on the main street in town and went in to enjoy my meal.

When I came back out and got in my car the window wing was broken out and the suitcases gone. Lost my whole collection of astrology books.

I have always wanted to see the look on that thief's face when, after he lugged those very heavy suitcases into some nearby alley, he opened them to find nothing but astrology books...all in English.

"Que la chin....!?!"

Last edited by greybeard; 09-25-2018 at 09:13 AM.
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Unread 09-25-2018, 09:30 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

I agree that Rudhyar's work can be 'heavy reading'. To my mind it goes deep into the psychology of human experience rather than just 'Mars can make you angry'.

Like any book his works contains many 'gems' that stick in the mind. For me his explanation regarding the importance of the Virgo and/or 6th house as 'the sign/house of crisis in consciousness' because it lies between Leo/5th (myself) and 7th/Libra (the other) houses, and which to choose, really hit the nail on its head. I had never read of such an explanation before. The 6th house is too often referred to as 'the house of service' …..and for many with a strong Virgo emphasis it is a crisis of 'to whom'?
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  #9  
Unread 09-25-2018, 08:37 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
App, on the Rudhyar website you'll find some good and useful articles.

His book on The Houses is a good one. I had it until it was stolen.

Here's the story on that...

I was living in Las Cruces, N.M., but was going to move back down to old Mexico. I packed my astrological library into two large suitcases and put them on the back seat of my car, then drove down to Juarez to enjoy a big bowl of pozole. I parked almost directly across the street from the busy 24-hour restaurant, under a street light on the main street in town and went in to enjoy my meal.

When I came back out and got in my car the window wing was broken out and the suitcases gone. Lost my whole collection of astrology books.

I have always wanted to see the look on that thief's face when, after he lugged those very heavy suitcases into some nearby alley, he opened them to find nothing but astrology books...all in English.

"Que la chin....!?!"
that poor thief
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Unread 09-27-2018, 05:21 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Greybeard, I once dated a man who had been a Peace Corps worker in Thailand. When his gig was up, the Peace Corps made a practice of getting some basic lab work done on departing volunteers to see if they were healthy. He was asked to take a stool sample for this purpose. He placed the container in a paper bag, and was taking the bus to deliver it to the lab. A kid grabbed the paper bag and ran off with it.

Rudhyar's work mostly has very spiritual, evolutionary overtones. After I while, I thought the world's great religions did a better job of it.

Also, Rudhyar's work was often pretty sexist. Yes, he was a man of his times (1895-1985) but I really didn't need to read this stuff.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 09-27-2018, 05:25 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

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Also, Rudhyar's work was often pretty sexist. Yes, he was a man of his times (1895-1985) but I really didn't need to read this stuff.
Can I ask, what did he say that made him sexist?
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Unread 09-27-2018, 05:26 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

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Also, Rudhyar's work was often pretty sexist. Yes, he was a man of his times (1895-1985) but I really didn't need to read this stuff.
I can see why you don't appreciate the trad revival as much.
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  #13  
Unread 09-27-2018, 06:36 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

AppLeo, our house renos are nearly over but I still have most of my astro books packed up in boxes, or I would give you more excerpts. I did manage to surface his An Astrological Tryptych.

Rudhyar's style was somewhat typical for a man of his generation, in using the proper noun "Man" to stand in for humanity. Fair enough, but Rudhyar uses "Man" A Lot, and at many points Rudhyar clearly uses "Man" to mean guys-- the folks with xy chromosomes. Astrology to Rudhyar is a gendered pursuit. For example, p. 103 on the first house:

"...man realizes and enacts his manhood by liberating the plus factor, which ever creates a more, a future."

He starts this chapter with the old Man Against Nature trope, to which an earth gendered as female ("Nature is the... mother-image") is the opposite, downward pull against which Man has to liberate himself. p. 104. "Nature is everything that man must overcome in order to be more than only man."

This is the millennia-old trope of "man is to culture as woman is to nature." It doesn't wear too well today, when we are all too aware of serious human impacts on the environment.

Women show up only briefly in houses 4 and 7 and then not as subjects in their own right, but as aids to the masculine quest for enlightenment. Meanwhile, the 7th house isn't conventionally about marriage, but about the love of Christ.

Petosiris-- It's a problem. I note that traditional western astrology today has some senior female authors and practitioners, Presumably they got their heads around it, and recognized different standards for bygone periods. Isn't this how you interpret it?
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 09-27-2018, 06:58 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
AppLeo, our house renos are nearly over but I still have most of my astro books packed up in boxes, or I would give you more excerpts. I did manage to surface his An Astrological Tryptych.

Rudhyar's style was somewhat typical for a man of his generation, in using the proper noun "Man" to stand in for humanity. Fair enough, but Rudhyar uses "Man" A Lot, and at many points Rudhyar clearly uses "Man" to mean guys-- the folks with xy chromosomes. Astrology to Rudhyar is a gendered pursuit. For example, p. 103 on the first house:

"...man realizes and enacts his manhood by liberating the plus factor, which ever creates a more, a future."

He starts this chapter with the old Man Against Nature trope, to which an earth gendered as female ("Nature is the... mother-image") is the opposite, downward pull against which Man has to liberate himself. p. 104. "Nature is everything that man must overcome in order to be more than only man."

This is the millennia-old trope of "man is to culture as woman is to nature." It doesn't wear too well today, when we are all too aware of serious human impacts on the environment.

Women show up only briefly in houses 4 and 7 and then not as subjects in their own right, but as aids to the masculine quest for enlightenment. Meanwhile, the 7th house isn't conventionally about marriage, but about the love of Christ.

Petosiris-- It's a problem. I note that traditional western astrology today has some senior female authors and practitioners, Presumably they got their heads around it, and recognized different standards for bygone periods. Isn't this how you interpret it?
Ur renovating your house? But I see.. that is much sexist. Just pretend he refers to both men and women.
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Unread 09-27-2018, 10:26 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Lool i do think by way of symbology the masculine aspect is the one on the quest while the feminine represents the Other - all that which supports and negates the Man on a quest. Just thinking of Man when it comes up in literature as a reference to that aspect may help.
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Unread 09-28-2018, 05:50 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

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Ur renovating your house? But I see.. that is much sexist. Just pretend he refers to both men and women.
Yeah-- we finally have our new floors in, but the kitchen will take another month. Meanwhile, the wall in the study where I kept my astrology books was knocked down, so they're still in boxes while we start to put furniture back and try to keep up with the sawdust.

I see no reason to "pretend" anything about Rudhyar. Have you read him yet?
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 09-28-2018, 05:58 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

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Lool i do think by way of symbology the masculine aspect is the one on the quest while the feminine represents the Other - all that which supports and negates the Man on a quest. Just thinking of Man when it comes up in literature as a reference to that aspect may help.
I purchased many of Rudhar's books in the 1990s, and thought this was pretty heady stuff. Then I began to think he was actually a shallow, derivative thinker, who simply hit on a magic formula of applying theosophical, evolutionary ideas to the horoscope. Where he cites Buddha or Jesus, I realized that simply reading on Buddhism or Christianity made more sense without Rudhar's intervention.

You can't read a horoscope for somebody using Rudhyar's books, except maybe The Lunation Cycle.

As a woman myself, the feminine does not represent the Other to me. Never has, never will. If men stopped fabricating women as the Other, the world would be a much better place. Go off on your own quest, if you must, but stop turning it into some kind of gendered manhood thing, wherein the roles for women are subordinate, if not as prey or booty. (Take that latter word both ways.)
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 09-29-2018, 06:55 PM
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back to astrology, to All

All,

Please get back to discussing astrology, specifically the astrology of Dane Rudhyar. If you want to discuss sexism, do it in the Chat Forum.

Back to astrology,

Tim
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Unread 09-29-2018, 07:40 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Yeah-- we finally have our new floors in, but the kitchen will take another month. Meanwhile, the wall in the study where I kept my astrology books was knocked down, so they're still in boxes while we start to put furniture back and try to keep up with the sawdust.

I see no reason to "pretend" anything about Rudhyar. Have you read him yet?
Not yet. I’ve been kind of busy doing other stuff. And I’m still waiting to see if more people say stuff about him to decide if I really want to read his work.
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Unread 09-29-2018, 07:46 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Dane Rudyhar is one of the biggest astrology geniuses that ever lived. Read his book on the meaning of houses. Every sentence is pure genius, in my opinion.

It is a book that you can take to the beach, and read 4 sentences and muse on them for the rest of the day. It is deep and meaningful and very profound.


read his impressive bio here:


http://www.beyondsunsigns.com/rudhyaraudioarchives.html
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Unread 09-29-2018, 07:51 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Here is a short article he did on the 12th house:

https://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/astr...allface_12.php

Astrological textbooks repeat that the twelfth house is the house of karma and of bondage. But it is also potentially the field of fulfillment and the symbol of the perfect end which is the prelude for more glorious tomorrows. What the natal twelfth house indicates is how you can reach perfect fulfillment, if you can at all reach it.

It does not say whether you will or will not reach it. It does not say whether or not you will leave, at the close of your life cycle or of any smaller cycles, many waste products and much unfinished business. It does not say whether or not you will be able to dismiss your ghosts — dismiss them with a blessing and courageously renew your mind and your life.

But it tells you something concerning the nature and insistency of the ghosts you will have to deal with; it gives you a general picture of your subconscious — the realm of ghosts and of the remains of unsolved problems or unlived experiences. It suggests to you the best way to deal with your ghosts and the disintegrating products of your subconscious.

The twelfth house gives as positive indications as any other house. There are indeed no bad houses. There are, nevertheless, fields of experience in which crises do occur; they must occur, for the sake of your tomorrows, for the sake of the future you, your greater self.
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Unread 09-29-2018, 10:15 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Well, App...it's your thread, your question.

You should read Rudhyar.
He changed modern astrology. Some of the changes have been good, some not so good (in my opinion). What you think after reading his works is up to you.

Why would you not read someone as important as Rudhyar?
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Unread 09-29-2018, 11:34 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Hi. For me, Rudhyar's most important contribution to astrology is his teaching that each astrologically significant celestial cycle corresponds to an expression of what he referred to as the 'cycle of being'. If you want a quick introduction to what that is, you can read Leyla Rael's 'The Essential Rudhyar' at Khaldea.com; and there is talk by Rudhyar on The Rudhyar Audio Archive (hosted by the Beyond Sun Signs website) which has a long title, but its says something about 'cycles of life'. In the talk,he actually uses the tropical zodiacal cycle and the lunation cycle as examples.

The Lunation Cycle interprets the lunation cycle as a cycle of being; The Pulse of Life applies the idea to the tropical zodiacal cycle; and The Astrological Houses applies it to the diurnal cycle. He wrote a book with Leyla which covers the synodic cycle in general, rather than just that between the Sun and Moon. I don't have it to hand, but I think it is called Astrological Aspects. All of these books are very good, but take some careful reading. I'd recommend trying to write the key ideas down in your own words so that they become more accessible and real to you.

There's also an essay on Khaldea.com that applies that interprets the direct retrograde cycles of Mercury and Venus as cycles of being. Meyers also has one on the site which looks at this. Erin Sulivan uses the ideas in her book about retrograde planets, but she doesn't give any credit to Rudhyar.

A lot of his essays can be read for free on Khaldea.com, some of which are more accessible than others, and some of which are more relevant to the practise of astrology than others.

Best wishes

Miquar
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  #24  
Unread 09-29-2018, 11:43 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

Actually, there are a couple of books that you can buy from Khaldea.com that are very practical. One is called something like Wheel of Experience (about the houses) and the other is called something like The Creative Matrix (about the signs). There may be a planet in sign cookbook section in the latter, or I might be confusing it with another book.

There is an essay on Khaldea.com in which Rudhyar gives a brilliant summary of what each planet means - I'll try and find out what it's called over the next day or two and add it to the thread.

Someone mentioned An Astrological Mandala. From the way Rudhyar labels and interprets the four quarters of the tropical zodiac in this work, it is clear that he is referring to them as the four quarters of the cycle of being.
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  #25  
Unread 09-30-2018, 01:25 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

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Well, App...it's your thread, your question.

You should read Rudhyar.
He changed modern astrology. Some of the changes have been good, some not so good (in my opinion). What you think after reading his works is up to you.

Why would you not read someone as important as Rudhyar?
Cuz I only have so much time on this planet. There have been literally thousands of important figures in history who have written books, but I can only read about 10% of those works without losing balance in life.
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