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  #1  
Unread 10-17-2019, 04:15 AM
hebetude hebetude is offline
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Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

I'm looking back from my great age of 58 years old, and thinking about my life, the choices I made and the periods where things were desperately going wrong.

Can these periods be seen in a chart?

At 18/19 I was married to someone who ultimately became a notorious criminal in Canada, recently deported. I moved to England to get away from him. That was around 1980 ish. Maybe earlier.

In 1999 I had another terrible relationship, a life disrupting time. It almost destroyed me, and was hot on the heels of a 16 year marriage break up in 1997/8.

In 2009/10 so much happened - my dad passed away and I lost an important job. I found a series of random and generally soul destroying jobs ... a pattern until June 2019 --> when I may have found the best job I'll ever have, and now life seems stable.

I'm so used to terribly bad luck, probably due to poor choices I now recognize, but I'm worried an anvil is going to fall from the sky.

I would be grateful if anyone can see patterns in my chart and possibly tell me where to stand when that anvil falls, if you hear me. I'm waiting for it.

Thanks for any insights.

I'll attach my natal chart from astrodienst.
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  #2  
Unread 10-18-2019, 03:26 PM
helike13 helike13 is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

First I was reading the story and I thought 'she definitely has a Yod in her chart'. And Bingo.....

And the anvil, which is your 2nd Saturn Return is coming steadily.....
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  #3  
Unread 10-18-2019, 04:14 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebetude View Post

I'm looking back from my great age of 58 years old, and thinking
about my life, the choices I made and the periods where things were desperately going wrong.

Can these periods be seen in a chart?
ANCIENT ZODIACAL RELEASING TIMING TECHNIQUE
divides your life into chapters and paragraphs
and helps to identify your life story.


In ancient Hellenistic astrology
there were several different time-lord techniques
that were used
to determine when the potential of placements in the birth chart
would be awakened, although many of them were lost
in the transmission of astrology over the past 2000 years.

Zodiacal releasing is a time-lord technique
that has been recovered over the past two decades
through translations
of the Greek text of the 2nd century astrologer Vettius Valens.


astrologers Chris Brennan and Leisa Schaim
present a 4-hour workshop on the technique
in order to provide the audience with a broad overview
and introduction to zodiacal releasing.
There is a long set of show notes
which outline
some of the main points made during the course of this episode
of THE ASTROLOGY PODCAST http://theastrologypodcast.com/2019/...ing-technique/


free website that calculate ZR now

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebetude View Post


At 18/19 I was married to someone who ultimately became a notorious criminal in Canada, recently deported. I moved to England to get away from him. That was around 1980 ish. Maybe earlier.

In 1999 I had another terrible relationship, a life disrupting time. It almost destroyed me, and was hot on the heels of a 16 year marriage break up in 1997/8.

In 2009/10 so much happened - my dad passed away and I lost an important job. I found a series of random and generally soul destroying jobs ... a pattern until June 2019 --> when I may have found the best job I'll ever have, and now life seems stable.

I'm so used to terribly bad luck, probably due to poor choices I now recognize, but I'm worried an anvil is going to fall from the sky.

I would be grateful if anyone can see patterns in my chart

and possibly tell me where to stand when that anvil falls, if you hear me. I'm waiting for it.

Thanks for any insights.

I'll attach my natal chart from astrodienst.
Calculating Zodiacal Releasing Periods



  • Identify the sign that each lot is placed in.
  • Start from the lot that matches the topic you want to study.
  • The quality of the lot provides the context of the resulting periods.
    • Spirit: career, overall life direction, actions
    • Fortune: health, accidents, the body, that which befalls you.
    • Eros: relationships, marriage, love.
  • Each sign of the zodiac is attributed a certain number of years:
    • Aries and Scorpio: 15
    • Taurus and Libra: 8
    • Gemini and Virgo: 20
    • Cancer: 25
    • Leo: 19
    • Sagittarius and Pisces: 12
    • Capricorn: 27
    • Aquarius: 30
  • The sign the lot falls in is activated for the number of years associated with that sign.
  • Once those years are up, the next sign in zodiacal order is activated.
  • It is called zodiacal releasing because you release the significator from its fixed position
    • Zodiacal “aphesis”
  • It keeps moving forward in zodiacal order as long as the native is alive.
  • Moves at a variable rate, not fixed or constant. Symbolic.
  • For the purpose of calculation 360 day years and 30 day months are used.
  • There are also subperiods to study shorter durations.
    • Signs attributed months instead of years on level 2.
    • Each subperiod is 1/12 of the general period.
    • Four subperiods.
    • Level 3: “weeks” of 2.5 days (1/12 of Level 2)
    • Level 4: “days” of 5 hours (1/12 of Level 3)
  • For the purpose of this we will focus mainly on level 1 and level 2
    • General periods and first subperiods
    • The technique though becomes even more impressive seeing it on lower levels.
  • If Spirit and Fortune are in the same sign, move Spirit forward one sign.
Software Programs for Calculating Zodiacal Releasing

  • Zodiacal releasing used to only be in Delphic Oracle.

    ZODIACAL RELEASING

    Peak Periods
  • The signs that are angular from the Lot of Fortune are more active and important
  • Coincide with periods of heightened importance and activity when activated.
    • What I call “peak periods”
  • When you start from Spirit and it comes to angles from Fortune these are career peaks
  • When you start from Eros and it comes to angles from Fortune relationship peaks
  • Periods of heightened importance and activity are not necessarily positive.
    • Just more active and more important.
  • Peak periods tend to stand out in a person’s chronology.
  • True especially in general periods, but also in subperiods.
Angular Triads
  • Peak periods do not happen in isolation
  • The sign that comes before a peak period builds up to and prepares for the peak
  • The sign after the peak period carries forward and brings to completion these themes
  • This cluster of three signs is known as an angular triad.
    • Term introduced by Schmidt to name something implicitly used in ancient astrology.
  • You must look at periods as a sequence with a beginning, middle, and end.
Interpreting the Quality of a Period
  • The quality of a period is primarily determined by:
    • Planets in the activated sign
    • Planets aspecting the activated sign by square or opposition
    • The condition of the ruler of the sign.
  • I tend to emphasize planets in or aspecting the sign more than the ruler.
    • Other astrologers focus more on the ruler.
    • Valens initially seems to favor the ruler, but in the examples focuses on the sign
  • The benefics and malefics primarily dictate the subjective experience of the period.
    • If it is experienced as more subjectively positive or negative.
    • The starting Lot you release from provides the context.
  • Important to use sect to determine the most positive and negative planets.
    • Day chart: Jupiter most positive planet, Mars the most negative.
    • Night chart: Venus the most positive planet, Saturn the most negative.
    • The other benefic and malefic are more moderate in their inclinations.
  • The signs angular to the most positive planet will be experienced as the most positive
    • The signs angular to most negative planet experienced as most negative.
    • Angular here means in the same sign, square, or opposed by sign.
    • Sign-based aspects from the benefics and malefics.
  • See where most positive and negative planets fall in the angular triads.
  • Is the most positive planet angular from Fortune, or the most negative planet?
    • Peak periods can be active, but not necessarily experienced as easy or positive.
  • Are benefics activated in the build up period or the cool down phase?
    • Malefics in the build up period or the cool down phase?
The Loosing of the Bond
  • Occurs in some of the signs that are longer than 17 years.
  • On the subperiod it completes the cycle through all 12 signs.
  • Instead of starting the cycle over again, it jumps to the opposite sign.
  • Resumes cycle from opposite sign.
  • This is called the loosing of the bond or the breaking of the sequence.
  • Always happens about 17 and a half years into general period, but on level 2.
    • Loosing of the bond can also occurs on L3 and L4.
  • Always marks a major transition
    • In Spirit it is a major transition in the career and life direction
    • In Eros a transition in relationships
    • In Fortune sometimes a transition in body, health, or circumstances.
  • It is one of the more reliable parts of the technique
  • Often very dramatic or notable.
  • Usually marked by an L or LB in most programs.
  • There are a few different scenarios of what occurs.
  • Foreshadowing period
    • The loosing of the bond is the second time that sign is activated.
    • The first time it is activated 8 years earlier often offers a preview of the LB
    • Sometimes the person almost does something but doesn’t finish/follow through
    • When the LB happens they follow through the second time around.
    • Chris discovered this through working with clients.
Other Stuff
  • Lots of other stuff we can’t get into here.
  • There are many other interpretive principles.
    • Completion period
    • Culmination period
    • Activating the ruler of Spirit
    • Activating the ruler of the general period
  • Not necessary to go into all of that here.
  • Most of it is dealt with in Chris’ full 18-hour lecture.

Miscellaneous
  • We touch on philosophical issues the technique raises several times in the episode.
  • Talk about some personal experiences with the technique.
  • Realizations/thoughts from using it over time
  • A bunch of other points made throughout the episode were omitted in this outline.
  • http://theastrologypodcast.com/2019/...ing-technique/
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #4  
Unread 10-19-2019, 04:10 AM
hebetude hebetude is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Yod, finger of god - i would have thought would bring me great good luck. Could use some guidance on this.

Second saturn return. I am at a point where I'm starting to be comfortable with who I am, truthful recognition of my limitations and motives to act in my own best interest vs. accommodating others. In fact, starting to fit in and be the popular person I was when younger - now in an office environment instead of the arts. But. I really don't want another extended period of emotional trauma.

What is interesting as I was noticing that these things tend to happen in 10 year cycles. Trying to remember what '89 was like, and I think it was the time I got out of the arts and got a desk job ... ushering in a time of very hard work and illustrating that whereas I fit in with artists and creatives, I was seen as a misfit in an office. I worked hard though, right up and into 2009 (when I slammed into a very ugly time). I find the timing interesting. Looks like the 89 period was the first Saturn return (around 28/30?).
-----------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by helike13 View Post
First I was reading the story and I thought 'she definitely has a Yod in her chart'. And Bingo.....

And the anvil, which is your 2nd Saturn Return is coming steadily.....

Last edited by hebetude; 10-19-2019 at 04:39 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 10-19-2019, 09:58 AM
helike13 helike13 is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

As a fellow Yod bearer I was always thinking which finger of God is the Yod...

I realized that God simply gave us the middle finger...

The Yod bearers who can actually work with their Yod in a productive way is infinitesimally few.
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  #6  
Unread 10-19-2019, 11:42 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebetude View Post
I'm looking back from my great age of 58 years old, and thinking about my life, the choices I made and the periods where things were desperately going wrong.

Can these periods be seen in a chart?
The quick answer is yes, but it would be necessary to have a working knowledge of what astrological symbolism means and understand the astro. techniques of transits and progressions to the natal chart.

If you would care to wile away a few interesting hours during the winter, go to Astro. com, click on 'all about astrology', then on the free 9000 yr. ephemeris available. Click on your birth century, year, and then follow down to your month/date. Every day following your birth equals one year of life.
E.g. Doing it manually and as a simple example, you will see that 4th April 1962 would coincide with 'events' that took place around 1980.

All the personal planets move at their specific rates of daily motion and can aspect a natal planet at some time or other. In the month following your birth, even secondary progressed Jupiter's rate of motion led it towards activating and completing its long time natal conjunction with Mercury-Mars.
This would have been around 21st April 1962 = 1997 progressed.
Etc. etc.
Such progressions usually infer a once in a lifetime change.

Writing down the years that progressed planets activate a natal planet and THEN looking up the transits during that particular year can often see a correspondence with situations. they resemble 'the trigger' that sets something off.

The zodiacal cycles of planets can also be of significance in timing.

By the time you've finished the exercise, spring might be around the corner, and you will be a lot wiser.
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  #7  
Unread 10-19-2019, 02:44 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebetude View Post

Second saturn return. I am at a point where I'm starting to be comfortable with who I am, truthful recognition of my limitations and motives to act in my own best interest vs. accommodating others. In fact, starting to fit in and be the popular person I was when younger - now in an office environment instead of the arts. But. I really don't want another extended period of emotional trauma.

What is interesting as I was noticing that these things tend to happen in 10 year cycles. Trying to remember what '89 was like, and I think it was the time I got out of the arts and got a desk job ... ushering in a time of very hard work and illustrating that whereas I fit in with artists and creatives, I was seen as a misfit in an office. I worked hard though, right up and into 2009 (when I slammed into a very ugly time). I find the timing interesting. Looks like the 89 period was the first Saturn return (around 28/30?).
PROFECTIONS are useful in tandem with other HELLENISTIC TIME LORD techniques
such as those linked to on the podcast already mentioned
Valens and many now termed Hellenistic Astrologers time profections as follows:


The ascendant is considered as being time of birth
so from birth to the cusp of the 2nd house
is considered to relate to the first year of life:
from cusp of 2nd to cusp of 3rd encompasses the second year of life
(ie from age one to age two)
and so on around the natal chart
returning to the Ascendant for the twelfth year of life
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

Yes, I find profection to be the most accurate of our predictive tools
working from the natal chart (with simple symbolic progression coming in a close second,
and the 2 worked together really productive of impressive results);
the question is which system of profection to follow-
Solar Fire I believe uses the Egyptian method,
counting the birth ascending sign as year 0;
probably 99% of those using profection follow this method:
I have had good results with it too, but
have come to prefer the Pauline profection
as I have described it in earlier posts.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #8  
Unread 10-19-2019, 06:29 PM
hebetude hebetude is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Thanks for so many pointers towards further research - long term projects but winter is coming, so - thanks.

The Yod formation has caught my attention (who could ignore a formation that is supposed to indicate a life purpose??) so have done a web check. Here's a rookie attempt at interpretation, pls add if you feel you can - it will be much appreciated:

YOD FORMATION:
In my natal chart, I have Mercury quincunx Uranus paired with Mars quincunx uranus ... these are (terminology?) sextile? in the 3rd house and in sign of Pisces (where my sun is). Uranus, is in the 9th house in Leo. I'm supposed to look at 3rd house. Home/siblings/communications.

What concerns me here is that I have PROBLEMS communicating. I may resemble or even be a bit autistic. Is this the expression of my Yod? And I often avoid people, even friendly people who know me and who I should be friendly towards. I may fear disappointing them.

I have 'inspired' ideas on which I act very impulsively. I have done alot of interesting things impulsively. Some worked out. Others were unfathomable, wind driven things the result of opportunity meeting impulse control issues.

I'm going to say from life experience that my choice of partner is more impulsive than reasoned. I have made some bad partner choices, and that is understating bad.

I am not finding my life's meaning in this interpretation, rather just characteristics. Would appreciate help with interpretation as I understand a yod is a meaningful configuration in a natal chart.
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  #9  
Unread 10-19-2019, 06:51 PM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebetude View Post

YOD FORMATION:
In my natal chart, I have Mercury quincunx Uranus paired with Mars quincunx uranus ... these are (terminology?) sextile? in the 3rd house and in sign of Pisces (where my sun is). Uranus, is in the 9th house in Leo. I'm supposed to look at 3rd house. Home/siblings/communications.

What concerns me here is that I have PROBLEMS communicating. I may resemble or even be a bit autistic. Is this the expression of my Yod?
It could be one of the functions of your yod, but it really depends on what else is going on with your Mercury. What a yod involving Mercury might do is bring whatever Mercury-related issues you have into sharp focus. Without it, you might still have the same issues, but they might not feel like as much of a problem to you.

However, I would expect that to be the case if your yod were pointing to Mercury. It's not. In fact, you don't even have Mercury involved in a yod. For a yod to occur, there have to be two planets that are sextile each other and both quincunx a third planet. A conjunction is not a sextile. Also, your Mercury/Mars conjunction is not quincunx Uranus. It's in an out of sign opposition to Uranus, not a quincunx. To be a quincunx, planets have to be 150 degrees apart, give or take no more than 2-3 degrees (some use an even lower limit, requiring the orb to be 1.5 degrees or less). Your Mercury/Mars cojunction is a few degrees away from a 180 degree angle to Uranus.

Mercury is in fall in Pisces, meaning it doesn't function as "well" as you expect. Mercury is "supposed" to be detail oriented and quick witted. In Pisces, it functions more as a big picture thinker, maybe missing some details. You don't think things through, you just do them (unless something else in your chart pushes you more strongly into thinking things through, but even then, the Mercury in you doesn't function that way). Inspired ideas that you act on impulsively perfectly fits that picture, and your tendency to act impulsively is reflected in your Mars conjunct Mercury. Pisces is not necessarily an impulsive sign (thought not necessarily a not impulsive sign either), but Mars is a very impulsive planet, and when it's conjunct another planet, the other planet gets fed its impulsive energy.
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Private messages welcome if they're either moderation-related matters or personal messages for me, but please do not send me astrological questions or chart reading requests. I answer those on the forum sometimes, and in my practice always, but not in private messaging.

If you would like to read my blog or inquire about my practice, please visit https://www.thebearsnose.com/

I also answer natal chart-based questions in its Ask the Astrologer feature. Submissions very welcome there!

Last edited by Osamenor; 10-19-2019 at 07:47 PM. Reason: Initially responded without seeing the chart, just the OP's description of it. My answer changed when I did see the chart.
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Unread 10-19-2019, 08:50 PM
whiteflame1997 whiteflame1997 is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Hello~
would quickly mention am not profesional astrologer, astrology is more a hobby.

Also its heart breaking to read what you been trough in life..hope your life is going to be safer and brighter for you.


To the astrology of this.
Uhmm..your pluto in 10th/ congjuncting your Midheaven.
probably created great rise and falls with career and public environment.
so prehaps a reason for your " Soul Destroying Jobs"

With marriage its bit difficult as you can controlled your own actions in life, but we cant control other peoples decions and actions.

You have DC, 7th in Taurus. meaning Venus is the ruling planet of your 7th.
With that i was stund..as venus normally rules 7th.
But venus is in the sign of Aries
Venus in Aries isnt the greatest place for Independt sign as Aries.
Normally we want realstionships with compromsing and discussions.
Aries in venus being the ruler of the first realstionship might by why..there been actions/ prehaps fighting.
venus trining moon might be a case of needingness aswell, after difficult fight so should be lead by break up instead is covered up with a "Please dont leave me, i need you" when you in reality you dont need this person (Also taurus is a obsessive sign so might been a possesiveness in the realstionship..almost feeling Owned so sort of a Item).

i would never image a partner being a criminal..only if i look at the ruling planet of the 5th house so venus is in.
as venus is again aries 5th..5th Aries is ruled by Mars.
Mars is in pisces 3th.
now that in it self isnt something so say "Criminal" to me.. until you see the Mars Pluto opposition.
after noticing that aspect in this..it wouldnt suprise me of this cirminal became publicly known in canada?

you being a Scorpio Rising and pluto, mars ruling scorpio.
you see where Mars and pluto they are and doing will definitely Effect you hard.
As our Rising/ Ascendant is our general life and personality.
so you prehaps had to transfrom alot of times, trough these relastionships and jobs.

not only that somewhere i learn different way at look at degree..
where the Sun is in pisces 26 degree..so would degree of taurus. So again Brings us Back to your 7th/Dc the area of life of partnerships, others.
So alot of your life time is to transfrom and go through these chaotic messed up relastionships.
i wouldnt discourage you from ever falling love or being relastionships..as i dont believe that would the reason and the lessons for you to expirence.
North Node in Leo 9th, congjunting moon is here asking you grow into a stronger person deeper love into yourself.
Letting you have fun with creativity, expression, prehaps move, explore different culture, country, spirituality or phillosophy being inspire to create and express, face these inner emotions.
creating from these inner emotions let them be free, might attract fresh love, romance.
Not easy when neptune in the 12th squaring moon..might create some unconscious fear and doubts.
Let yourself know your own worth to live..it is never too late until it in the grave.



oki short..of trying to look in your chart for the experience you had.
sorry for the mess
Thank you for your time, have a Nice day <3
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  #11  
Unread 10-20-2019, 06:35 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebetude View Post

YOD FORMATION:
In my natal chart, I have Mercury quincunx Uranus paired with Mars quincunx uranus ... these are (terminology?) sextile? in the 3rd house and in sign of Pisces (where my sun is). Uranus, is in the 9th house in Leo. I'm supposed to look at 3rd house. Home/siblings/communications.

What concerns me here is that I have PROBLEMS communicating. I may resemble or even be a bit autistic. Is this the expression of my Yod?
Further to Osamenor's explanation, I have about 60 charts on file that have been officially diagnosed as autism OR on the autism spectrum/asperger's syndrome scales.

What is most noticeable in the cases is the harsh aspects with Moon-Mercury-Saturn-Uranus; i.e. the relationship between feeling-thought-reality-irrationality.
Moon-Saturn and Mercury-Uranus across the 3rd house, associated with influence upon thought processes and communication, are in the chart shown, yet NOT linked to each other.
Other aspects on the autism spectrum can see an influence from Mars and/or Jupiter, whilst the Neptune and Pluto add their own '(un)conscious raising' significance.

Although Saturn is part of the YOD figure with Venus-Pluto, the configuration itself would not seem to follow those general aspects found on the autism spectrum.

With the planets on the YOD rulers of 12th (unphysical world), Ascendant (constitution, personality), 3rd (communication), and 6th houses (physical health), PLUS the influence of Mercury-Mars opp. Pluto, could there be an obsessive, compulsive nature that takes hold? One feels compelled to act in a particular manner, whereby Mercury in, and an overall Pisces strongly felt fantasy is taken way out of bounds by the thinking of an irrational Uranus. In FIXED Leo, it may not see other possibilities in opinions and reasoning (9th house). It's how I and my fantasy experience it (Sun in Pisces), and no other.

Quote:
I am not finding my life's meaning in this interpretation, rather just characteristics. Would appreciate help with interpretation as I understand a yod is a meaningful configuration in a natal chart.
There are other configurations in the chart that play themselves out just as strongly in your life as the YOD.

On another astrology board elsewhere, there is a thread regarding what apects would be suggestive of 'an abandonment phobia.' There are aspects in the chart shown that could be suggestive of such issues. Do you think this could play a role in your life? If a person is so scared of being abandoned, they might inadvertently becomes one's own worst enemy (12th and 1st house in same sign) and self sabotage situations to make sure that that which one fears most doesn't happen.

When looking for 'life's meaning', as do most who look into conscious raising subjects, astrology would look towards the North Node. Can it be coincidence that it is in the 9th house (meaning of life) in Leo, the sign of the Individual Spirit?
Could it be that life's meaning for you is to become independent of others' influence upon your life, and make and live for your own?

Secondary progressed Sun has crossed 7th house cusp. If working well, Taurus's greatest gift is that of security through self assurance.

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  #12  
Unread 10-20-2019, 06:55 PM
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

Further to Osamenor's explanation, I have about 60 charts on file

that have been officially diagnosed as autism

OR on the autism spectrum/asperger's syndrome scales.

interesting - however AJ Astrologys valid comment is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

...............the sample isn't statistically valid.
In college our statistics class
was required to work with the university policy center
who conducted phone and written polls on a wide variety of topics.


A representative statistical sample for the US is roughly 2,386 people.
and so clearly
60 charts is insufficient to draw any reliable conclusion
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Unread 10-20-2019, 11:16 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

JUPITERASC,
I have no idea who or what AJ Astrology is and I found nothing through a Google or A.W search, which makes it impossible to comment on whatever research was commented on.

Edit: Have seen name on member's list. Will look up post.

Quote:
and so clearly
60 charts is insufficient to draw any reliable conclusion
The O.P made a personal comment about a possible condition.
If you re-read my post I don't think you will see me 'drawing any kind of reliable conclusion', rather than stating what showed up regularly in example charts (the number would have been higher had I included 'probable' but non-diagnosed condition charts).

If 60 charts is not a reliable basis to be considered, what on Earth are astrologers …. and this forum …..doing when basing interpretations upon aspects in a single chart?
Is it not possible to find associations through research that doesn't come from an ancient lore and/or already written book?

I guess if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it could still be a goose.

Last edited by Frisiangal; 10-20-2019 at 11:43 PM.
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Unread 10-20-2019, 11:56 PM
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post
JUPITERASC,
I have no idea who or what AJ Astrology is

and I found nothing through a Google
or A.W search,

which makes it impossible to comment on whatever research was commented on.
interesting because a link to the thread under discussion
is as follows:


https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...72#post1005972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

The O.P made a personal comment about a possible condition.
If you re-read my post I don't think you will see me 'drawing any kind of reliable conclusion', rather than stating what showed up regularly in example charts (the number would have been higher had I included 'probable' but non-diagnosed charts).

If 60 charts is not a reliable basis to be considered, what on Earth are astrologers ….
and this forum …..
doing when basing interpretations upon aspects in a single chart?
Exactly
so far as our forum is concerned
we are an astrological LEARNING forum
so all of us members of this forum are
LEARNING by PRACTICE
the vast majority of us being beginners
with little or no experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

Is it not possible to find associations through research
that doesn't come from an ancient lore and/or already written book?
research, to be statistically significant
requires statistically significant data samples and/or sampling

earlier I quoted A J Astrology on that issue
i.e. specifically
in response to the following comment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

Further to Osamenor's explanation, I have about 60 charts on file
that have been officially diagnosed as autism
OR on the autism spectrum/asperger's syndrome scales.
interesting - however AJ Astrologys valid comment is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

...............the sample isn't statistically valid.
In college our statistics class
was required to work with the university policy center
who conducted phone and written polls on a wide variety of topics.

A representative statistical sample for the US is roughly 2,386 people.
and so clearly
60 charts is insufficient to draw any reliable conclusion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

I guess if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,
it could still be a goose.
or alternatively
a decoy as used by those who go hunting, shooting and fishing
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Unread 10-21-2019, 10:05 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

JUPITERASC.
Thank you for the link to a thread in the Traditional section. A reason the pseudonym was unfamilar to me.

Quote:
Celibacy thread in Trad. forum,

Reply #18
It's the chart conditions, not the planets………….That's an issue of contention between modern and traditional.

Reply #58
In college our statistics class was required to work with the university policy center who conducted phone and written polls on a wide variety of topics. A representative statistical sample for the US is roughly 2,386 people.

166 charts is hardly enough………………….
The data I saw had more than 1,000 charts with verified birth-times, but it didn't really prove anything.

That's why I say you have to look at the chart as a whole.

Reply #188
I agree that medical conditions, and also mental health conditions, may lead to *celibacy, but I don't believe that is something you'd see in a natal chart
*fill in any other trait.
I agree with the perspectives (s)he takes.

Your reply #73 to his/her post #58
Quote:
when one takes into account a world population of seven billion
that's an excellent point
Doesn't that make every facet, including your own, of (written) astrology open to speculation?
So what is an astrological starting point for any (written) research in order to unravel its meaning? How many charts are necessary to give the necessary proof that will be found acceptable?
In which case those many astro. authors declineating ONE chart as proof of astro. factors would be out of work.

Traditional and Modern astrology use different techniques to read a chart. It doesn't mean either is wrong; they simply go about it in another fashion.

Quote:
Quote:
I guess if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,
it could still be a goose.
or alternatively
a decoy as used by those who go hunting, shooting and fishing
A decoy is a substitute for the real thing to fool the subject. Not available in chart delination that is strictly personal.

Last edited by Frisiangal; 10-21-2019 at 10:13 AM. Reason: gender!!
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Unread 10-21-2019, 11:59 AM
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post
JUPITERASC.

Doesn't that make every facet, including your own, of (written) astrology open to speculation?
Quite


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Unread 10-21-2019, 12:09 PM
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

In which case those many astro. authors declineating ONE chart

as proof of astro. factors

would be out of work
.
Indeed
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Unread 10-21-2019, 12:14 PM
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post


Traditional and Modern astrology use different techniques to read a chart. It doesn't mean either is wrong; they simply go about it in another fashion.
the following information is for new members/beginners reading this thread

keep in mind that because ours is an astrological learning forum
where members practice astrological skills free
no one is paid therefore responses to threads
are often from members who are beginners like yourself
with little or no experience
keen to learn by practice
members are encouraged to discuss interpreting their own charts to learn by practice
we also have members with many years of astrological study completed
members have day jobs
and those of our members who are professionals
do not provide a complete professional reading for free


whether a TRADITIONAL astrologer or a MODERNIST astrologer
our forum hosts BOTH perspectives ON SEPARATE BOARDS

i.e.
our MODERN BOARD completely excludes traditional astrological comment
and
our TRADITIONAL BOARD completely excludes Modernist astrological comment
i.e.
We have a modernist board AS WELL AS a traditional board

and then
the rest of our forum is composed of GENERAL ASTROLOGY THREADS
i.e.
whether a member is using Vedic astrology
Chinese astrology, Western Sidereal Astrology, Modernist Astrology Traditional Astrology
ALL perspectives are welcomed on our General Astrology board threads
and this thread is on our General Astrology board

and any member
may comment on our GENERAL ASTROLOGY BOARD using ANY astrological methodology
our HELP WITH FORUMS AND SUGGESTIONS board is at
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to be clear then
our TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY ONLY board
is at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...splay.php?f=92
For discussions on Traditional Astrology only.
Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras.
Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction
and excludes modern planets Neptune, Uranus and Pluto
non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids.
The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation
and more on prediction.
Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.

our MODERNIST ASTROLOGY ONLY board
is at
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For discussions on Modern Astrology only.
Note: Typically, modern astrology is defined as using techniques developed around the late 1800s by Theosophists.
Specifically it relies on psychological, evolutionary, karmic, and non-western interpretation approaches
and includes Neptune, Uranus and Pluto
and non-Ptolemaic aspects.
The focus is more on psychological chart interpretation instead of prediction.
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Unread 10-21-2019, 12:15 PM
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

So what is an astrological starting point for any (written) research
in order to unravel its meaning?
How many charts are necessary to give the necessary proof
that will be found acceptable?
thanks for highlighting that issue

lets keep in mind that on a daily basis
more than three hundred and sixty thousand worldwide births occur
all of those charts have same planetary aspects
but differ via natal ascendant
as well as via planets house location
and via the moon
which travels on average 13.2 degrees per day relative to the stars
which is just over half a degree per hour

current world population is seven billion
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Unread 10-21-2019, 07:41 PM
Harmelia Harmelia is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Hello Hebetude!
I did not read all of the responses given you, but I'd like to simply sit with your chart and respond to your questions. But first, let me say that people's lives are full of ups and downs and negative experiences, so you are in good company. I'm 68. I don't anyone (including myself) who hasn't experienced the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" - so well-spoken by Shakespeare. But we do have different ways of dealing with life - and yes - astrology CAN be helpful in giving us a heads up. Sometimes just knowing what kind of cycle we're in does empower us to make better choices.


SOME PRELIMINARIES BEFORE LOOKING AT TRANSITS: (transits affect the birth chart, so we have to know the birth chart to see the future)


1. There is an inherent restlessness and sense of responsibility in your chart and essential character. Your beliefs are aligned with some movement - perhaps religious, political, cultural or philosophical - it could be anything you feel aligned with that you think is true. You have strong beliefs - but you question and keep seeking - perhaps to come to deeper truth, or, to prove your side in the face of those who criticize your stand. You like to defend what you believe. I think that you like to think of yourself as open-minded and maybe you even look like that on the surface, but I wonder if that's true given your chart. It feels to me like you've made some assumptions that lead you to certain "truths" that from other points of view, simply aren't true. What is true then, simply becomes a confusion of half-truths that actually don't serve you. We can all argue any point of view and substantiate it and sound convincing, even when we are dead wrong. Just ask any lawyer.



2. In the above statements, I'm referring to your South Node, Saturn and Jupiter in Aquarius, 3rd house opposing North Node, Moon and Uranus in the 9th. There are a lot of planets in these oppositions and your attention is held here very strongly.



3. The problem then becomes, how does one truly find and KNOW the truth - about one's self, other people, how the world works, why we are here, etc.? I personaly have two yods my own chart), so I have given a lot thought to the meaning of them. I kind of like "there is some sacrifice the apex planet is asked to make". In your case, Pluto in Virgo conjunct MC. To me, this suggests that your mandate to evolve your Virgo and 10th house qualities and activities has a caveat. It isn't so straight forward as saying you need to evolve your sense of service or your ability to think critically, or to understand through analysis. It may be that indeed you need to develop a more positive relationship with Virgo and your sense of responsibility. But, you also have to let something GO of it. That could be that you think too much, that you are overly critical, that you feel way too much responsibility - or think you have to be an authority on the issues (10th house).



4. What planets are forcing an extra mandate upon the apex Pluto in the yod? Venus in Aries in the 5th and Saturn in Aquarius, 3rd. Venus in Aries, 5th is asking you to develop more of a sense of an individual self. Aries is the one sign who is extremely focused on a stand-alone SELF, that does not depend upon other people or group beliefs to feel well and alive. It simply IS - it says, "I AM" and it is meant in the most basic way. There's nothing to figure out. Here is a blade of grass. Here is a rose. It just is. Then Saturn in Aquarius - conjunct the SN - could be said to be the second sign that is focused on being a unique individual. Saturn and NN do suggest that this is very family territory. Aquarius can be rebellious and on the negative, can be so individualistic that it works against itself. On the other hand, Aquarius can be responsible for taking on beliefs that truly aren't YOURS, but of your culture or "tribe". Aquarius is a very mentally-oriented or intellectual sign. It's electrical. It likes a fight as much as Aries can like a fight. They're ganging up on Pluto in Virgo.



5. I think that what's happened here is you have become confused about what is truly YOURS and what is truly other people's beliefs and right conclusions. Most likely your family had strong beliefs and you've had to sort out what's yours and what's theirs. It's very difficult to do this. Truly! Something like this is the work of a lifetime.


6. My conclusion here is that this is a lifetime more about "letting go" of who you think you are and the set of beliefs given to you in your conditioning. You truly need to focus upon your own identity and let go of trying to sort things out. The way to do that is to focus on creativity - on Venus in Aries in the 5th. When you do creative things, that draws upon your Piscean planets - which have much imagination and inspiration available to them. But to access their positive qualities, you have to not think so much, debate so much, defend so much.



7. Pisces can be a very spacious, open place. Your Sun, Mars and Mercury are all in Pisces. It can be a confusing place if you let it be. You could escape there and not even be present in the world. But the most positive thing you could do is to find a craft or art where you can express creatively. I think it's very possible you've done this already - and in fact, my guess is, you have.



8. Pisces and the 12th house are also about letting go. The 12th is often called the House of Troubles or Loss. But really, it's about letting go. You need to let go of the obsessive qualities found in your 3rd and 9th houses. You've got that T-square to Neptune apex - you need to focus on letting go, and feeling okay with being in a letting go space.



9. When we do creative things, we can lose track of time. We get all absorbed in our imagination and inspiration. We are truly somewhere else. It isn't a mental or intellectual space. It is a space where new things can emerge. For you, the 3rd-9th house planets are like being a mouse on a circular running wheel. Turning your attention to the Sun, Mars and Mercury in Pisces, Venus in Aries, 5th and Neptune in the 12th, Scorpio is a big relief from all that. You can play and create and be in a very nice out there space - as long as you aren't doing drugs instead to accomplish that.


10. I think perhaps, that you need to accept not-knowing - or letting go of the need to know - before you sense knowing from a deeper, intuitive place. Don't expect knowing to come from that 3rd-9th house process. Making pros and cons lists or analytical diagrams really won't help in the long run. I'm not saying not to do that, as maybe it will lead you to that letting go point, where answers could come. But, I'm just saying, not knowing and not concluding can be a friend and not an enemy.



TRANSITS and PROGRESSIONS
1. So when the transits aspect your natal planets, they influence those planets and how you feel and sometimes the events that happen. Your natal planets set up where those transits influence you. So your 3rd-9th house planets can be stimulated to get you trying to figure out things - and questioning your beliefs - or just trying to make sense of things. You may also have times when you are especially creative and things are going well because those other planets are being stimulated.



2. What you're really asking for is to secure an attitude you can count on that will help you through losses or dealing with negative experiences. It's actually a very good and reasonable question to ask.



3. This may sound kind of weird, but how present are you in your body? With a Scorpio ASC and Pisces IC with all that Aquarius, it makes me think that maybe you aren't fully present in your body. I mean, are you aware of your toes right this second as you read this? What body parts are you typically aware of? If you don't spend much time in your body, you may benefit greatly from grounding yourself more in your body. It will help you feel more grounded and solid. It can help you get out of your mind.



4. Along these lines, if you do any exercising - even walking - while paying attention to your body - and being aware of every inch of it - you can practice being more in your body. But you can practice sitting on the couch too. Can you watch TV and be aware of your whole body? Can you wash the dishes and be aware of your whole body? Can you do the dishes and be aware of your breathing? Being in your body can slow things down and stop obsessive thinking. It can help you be more aware of your true impulses and feelings. It can help you feel more stability which can help you not be so thrown when something happens.



5. Your Secondary Progressed Sun moved into the 7th house last year. It's been in Taurus for about 22 years. So you may benefit greatly to put more energy into one-on-one relationships - partners, friends, people close to you. You are likely to feel more grounded in these relationships - which can help you with those ups and downs. How could they help you keep steady when a challenge comes along? Set up a social network that can be helpful to you.


6. SP Mars is in Aries, 5th house. If you aren't doing something creative now, I think you would benefit from starting something. If it's something that grounds you, all the better. It needs to excite you and make you feel alive. It might also be something that can give you stability when something happens to throw you off. You might think about giving it that power by saying to yourself that this is what I'll do when something happens to throw me off my game.



7. TR Saturn and Pluto are in the 2nd house, Capricorn. This is very good for grounding and paying attention to your own integrity - to how to live your life from the inside out. These two TR planets will be conjunct at the beginning of 2020 - ending one and beginning a new Pluto-Saturn cycle for all of us. It's a time to restructure ourselves. A year after that - sometime in Feb 2021, you will have your second Saturn return. This CAN cause some difficult changes. You will want to have your new stabilizing schemes in place. During this Saturn Return, you will be asked to evaluate yourself and your life and ask, what it is you want to do during your elder years? You will need to set yourself up for the future by reflecting upon what's truly important to you.



8. But even if you manage to feel more stable in difficult times, remember that these times are meant to help us change something and that change ought to benefit us. If we relate to changes positively, we may learn something of great value. If we need to grieve, we can grieve. If we need to move, we can move. There's always something positive to be gleaned. Maybe you need to see the positives instead of the negatives. I don't know. Just throwing things out there.



9. Your SP Moon is in Virgo, 10th house. It will be in Virgo until the end of 2020. My guess is that you need to make sure that you don't participate in negative Virgo - worry, self-doubt, self-criticism or criticism of others, the need to be perfect or to do things to perfection, the need to help others - especially out of guilt. Instead, work toward analyzing things in the service of truly UNDERSTANDING. Understanding brings resolve. Once you understand, you can let go of it. If you just worry or obsess and there's never any real understanding, then it's a negative loop. Virgo needs to understand things to work positively. Once you understand, you can use the Pisces planets to gain love and compassion - and there lies gaining peace.



10. And that brings me full circle to your SP Sun in Taurus. Taurus truly wants peace - the simplicity of peace - the harmony of peace and peaceful interactions. Taurus the Bull is fully in the body. It's sensuous and a creature fully participating in nature. If you think of yourself as a Bull - who fears nothing and no one and enjoys a kind of mindless superiority of strength, power and connection with the earth. Would you dare bother a bull? Would you think twice about wearing red in a pasture where a bull may be grazing? A bull, no doubt, feels invulnerable.



11. In 2021, when your SP Moon enters Libra - you may find yourself able to be less fearful and more fully engaged in the world if you can relate to your SP Sun in Taurus now and work at becoming more bull-like. Then maybe change will feel more like whispers blowing in the wind instead of hurricanes destroying what has been built.
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Unread 10-21-2019, 11:05 PM
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Harmelia,
With the time you have taken on your response to Hebetude, I hope you receive the courtesy of a reply.

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Unread 10-22-2019, 12:18 AM
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Question Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

I found my Lots of Fortune and Spirit in Cancer (my rising sign) and Lot of Eros in 0' Aries.

https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/ca...ystem=placidus

Can anyone describe how many years in my life the lots are going to effect me personally?
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 10-23-2019, 04:27 AM
hebetude hebetude is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

@ Frisangel:

I have some obsessive compulsive habits ... yes indeed. I do have a fear of being judged, or observed, but not of abandonment. In fact, almost the opposite. I tend to "abandon" friends. Its a terrible thing.

Self-sabotage could be a thing. I am a vessel full of competing intentions and impulses.

I am someone who does not seek the spotlight, except periodically when I inexplicably seek the spotlight, as uncomfortable as that can be I frequently take acting classes. I do well as I can channel my feelings.
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Unread 10-23-2019, 05:40 AM
hebetude hebetude is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

Thank you, Harmelia's response is a treasure trove of insights that I will spend much time with. Thanks to you and the others who have kindly responded.

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Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post
Harmelia,
With the time you have taken on your response to Hebetude, I hope you receive the courtesy of a reply.

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Unread 10-23-2019, 05:51 AM
hebetude hebetude is offline
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Re: Looking back - can a cycle of ups & downs in a life be seen?

You have really identified many of my characteristics, and even before I read what you had written I had responded to Frisangel mentioning acting, a great hiding place where one is fully exposed. I recently went back to it after literally decades away. I think I can work on my bull. Thank you for these valuable insights, an inspired interpretation.
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