SentinelOfLight
Banned
Yes, the doctor and the old lady totally deserve to die
Okay, so AppLeo is just being contrarian for the sake of self-amusement. Don't take it too much to heart, Bunraku.
Should the death penalty be allowed?
- Thread starter Bunraku
- Start date
Okay, so AppLeo is just being contrarian for the sake of self-amusement. Don't take it too much to heart, Bunraku.
Bunraku
Well-known member
Elaborate? Is compassion enough?
Some people can’t be rehabilitated if you ask me.
I’d be interested in a change of culture and how it would play out, actually. I’m always down for new ideas.
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Bunraku
Well-known member
He deserves the death penalty for attempting to murder my thread.
SentinelOfLight
Banned
I agree with that, but I think we owe it as much to ourselves as to them to give it our best effort and try. Compassion isn't a solution, in itself, but it's an essential ingredient in any human trauma. It isn't even a matter of who "deserves" compassion; we don't "deserve" anything, irrespective of what we feel we've earned. Nobody owes us anything. If they choose to return a favor done for them, that is a sign of their personal character, but otherwise nothing compels them to do so. Likewise, we don't owe the mislead and devalued anything. If we give them our compassion and try to understand why they are who they are (and make a valid effort to help them restore their own values in the process), it's because we've decided to, not because we're obligated to.
Compassion is a choice, but it's a choice whose absence or abundance can have enormous impact, negatively or positively.
Bunraku
Well-known member
If killing people is wrong
paying "a public executioner"
to kill people
who have killed people
is.....
Eh. Some people have reasoned that if a person watches someone drown while not saving the drowning person, then the person standing is responsible of the drowning person's death. They’ve compared that watching someone drown while being able to save them is similar to having the resources, i.e. being wealthy, and not donating to starving people in other countries.
By this logic I wonder how high my death count is.
SentinelOfLight
Banned
LOL! Not worth the expenditure, really. These sort of discussions can get pretty heavy. I can't really blame him for wanting to lighten the mood, even if his method was a bit exclusive to his own benefit. (But I'm guessing your response carried at least a barbed humor, itself.
)
Bunraku
Well-known member
Don’t you think we, as a society, owe each other to a degree for the sake of keeping society running?
For example, I want to owe you my compassion
SentinelOfLight
Banned
Eh. Some people have reasoned that if a person watches someone drown while not saving the drowning person, then the person standing is responsible of the drowning person's death. They’ve compared that watching someone drown while being able to save them is similar to having the resources, i.e. being wealthy, and not donating to starving people in other countries.
By this logic I wonder how high my death count is.
I think there's a substantial difference in actively killing someone and simply not aiding them when they could hypothetically be helping themselves. There are a lot of people out there, struggling to keep their heads above the financial waters. You can't save everyone, and I know firsthand how frustrating it can be to give of your time and energy, only to have someone act like you owed it to them anyway. We can't shoulder the responsibility of saving the world on our own, but we can do our part, from time to time. At the very least, we can elect not to actively add to the problems. As to not saving someone drowning, who you could possibly save, if there were no evident risk-factors involved in reaching out and you simply couldn't be bothered to reach out, then yes, I would say that could be akin to murder. Both act and inaction require a similar level of apathy, and both result in the death of another human. But it's important to consider all the relevant factors before judging a situation. Sometimes there is little or nothing that one person can do to help. That isn't a fault, it's a fact of life.
SentinelOfLight
Banned
Don’t you think we, as a society, owe each other to a degree for the sake of keeping society running?
For example, I want to owe you my compassion
That is possibly the most direct statement of interest that you've made since I joined. I'm certainly interested in getting to know you better, for my part. Our astrological compatibility is testimony enough for my peace of mind. I did send you a PM, but I assume your inbox is full, so you may not have gotten it.
SentinelOfLight
Banned
According to JesseBooth:
"I would say that he's right that we don't owe anyone our compassion. In a way, considering compassion mandatory or owed makes it less valuable."
That's a very good observation, yeah.
Bunraku
Well-known member
Can you elaborate the differences? See, it’s more than an issue of just helping themselves, but sometimes they truly are stuck (learned helplessness). See, while it’s not illegal for me not to save a child drowning don’t you think it’s morally reprehensible that I’d just watch them drown without trying to at least help? A death that could have easily been avoided. If I didn’t have the resources, I understand that it may not be my fault because I’d be helpless.
Oh yes we can
JupiterASC should come in any day now about income inequality and wealth statistics. I didn’t like how the brunt of the responsibility ended up on 1st world nations.We’d have to work nonstop and give everything to them while we end up living without money.
That would be a majority of apple users.
Just kidding (not really). That would make most Americans killers wouldn’t it?
Anyways, whether I could or not, it does kind of make you feel guilty doesn’t it, if you do buy into this reasoning.
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SentinelOfLight
Banned
Can you elaborate the differences? See, it’s more than an issue of just helping themselves, but sometimes they truly are stuck (learned helplessness). See, while it’s not illegal for me not to save a child drowning don’t you think it’s morally reprehensible that I’d just watch them drown without trying to at least help? A death that could have easily been avoided. If I didn’t have the resources, I understand that it may not be my fault because I’d be helpless.
Oh yes we can
I didn’t like how the brunt of the responsibility ended up on 1st world nations.We’d have to work nonstop and give everything to them while we end up living without money.
That would be a majority of apple users.
Just kidding (not really). That would make most Americans killers wouldn’t it?
Anyways, whether I could or not, it does kind of make you feel guilty doesn’t it, if you do buy into this reasoning.
Granted, I neglected to note the proviso that some people lack the means to help themselves. As to that, some simply are so accustomed to bottom-feeding that they are easily overwhelmed when faced with the task of succeeding under their own power. Our capitalistic culture simply moves too fast for others... There are a number of factors that have to be considered. In any case, I agree that legality is a trivial thing in comparison to simple ethics. People put so much emphasis on law (in spite of their usual acknowledgment that some laws are just stupid) that I think they forget how to question their own ethics. Communal law is dangerous for that very reason: it makes us complacent, since our own perspectives are forced to take a back seat however we feel. It's a universal fact that people want to be treated with respect, they want to be happy, and they don't want to be hurt, physically or emotionally. Some may associate pain with pleasure or progress, but they don't want pain for it's own sake, since it is antithetical to happiness. Ethical minds understand and accept these facts. Mundane minds, who've given up their personal perspective in favor of communally lawful harmony, are at particularly high risk of falling into the bottomless pit of animalistic thinking.
And when I said "we" cannot save the world, my meaning was individually. I've said elsewhere, and still maintain, that when enough heads come together, great things can happen. That's the great thing about being human; we know we can accomplish monumental tasks by cooperating.
I agree that the developed nations have taken on too great a task, but I also observe that there is a co-dependency complex going on, here. So long as we only help them enough to survive, we remain the dominant power in a world we have reinforced the need of our superiority in. It's all part of the power-game. Frankly, it needs to stop. But so long as national borders and government propaganda are used to maintain fear and hatred of national neighbors, there's no chance that something can be done to bring the rest of the world up to our standards. But that's something that can only be done by those of us who aren't inseparable ideological members of the state. One of my favorite quotes is, "Individuality comes not through defiance, but with indifference." I honestly think the public needs to stop paying taxes, stop submitting in any way to government "authority" and simply conduct themselves how they know to be correct. Right and wrong aren't ******* mysteries. More to the point, the feds only have power over us because we give it to them. They've abused that power time and again, but people continue to give them power, and that seems incredibly sheepish of them.
I wouldn't go so far as to say most Americans are akin to murderers, but I would agree that most of them have the *perspective* of killers. That said, I cannot assume they wouldn't show compassion in the heat of the moment, even if most might not... People are possessed of a certain quality that even surprises themselves, sometimes.
I try not to feel guilty for not devoting my life to saving the world. There are people who are much more effective at that than I am; as I've said before, I'm an idea-guy, not an action-guy. I've got a rational and unbiased perspective, and I practically live in my thoughts. I'd be more effective with people to hear and manifest my ideas, but I don't have that, much as I'd like to. So I do what I can in small ways, despite my potential for big change. Just giving a homeless person someone to talk to who doesn't run their same circles can be a real bright point in their day. No donation, no food, just someone who gives enough of a **** how they're doing to try to cheer them up a bit.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Yes, the doctor and the old lady totally deserve to die
SentinelOfLight
Banned
Gotta love the dude's name, though. Y'know, if he ever became a career military man, assuming he didn't die in the line of duty, he'd eventually become "Major Paine." *Sigh* Missed opportunity, I suppose... >_>
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Exactly - work place destroyed by bombs - hence got no means to feed themselves or their families
homes also destroyed by bombing
hence transformed into refugees
to whom the countries dropping those bombs on their workplaces and homes
won't allow refuge
SentinelOfLight
Banned
Exactly - work place destroyed by bombs - hence got no means to feed themselves or their families
homes also destroyed by bombing
hence transformed into refugees
which the countries dropping those bombs on them won't allow refuge
One of many prime examples, yes.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Oh yes we can
JupiterASC should come in any day now about income inequality
and wealth statistics.
SentinelOfLight
Banned
Holy ****, somehow I missed the diss on Apple! ROFLMAO!! You can't tell, but I'm trying to high-five you through the screen right now.
