Re: Chinese Astrology

2

26Degree

Well-known member
Re: Chinese Astrology

It seems a bit incorrect to group the Chinese methods under an umbrella term of "Astrology". The more popular Chinese divination methods such as the 4-pillar are not really based on the energies or the motions of the stars in the sky, but how the 5 elements interact with seasonal changes. The Sun and Moon might be taken into account in methods like "Zi Wei Stars"... The truely astrological divination method "Qi Zheng Si Yu" was banned from the public, only allowed to be practiced by court astrologers in ancient China.
 
eric1981

eric1981

Active member
Re: Chinese Astrology

Mark said:
This is the point I was trying to make. I could trace back the lineage of Western astrology a little further and give an earlier date. Then, you could trace back Chinese astrology a little further and give an earlier date still. We could go back and forth like this for a long time.
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Well,you made your point.And I agree!My original intention was not to argue which is older than which,but to provide a fact.Let's stop at this point.
And I also believe that all systems work!And in a way,they coincide!
 
eric1981

eric1981

Active member
Re: Chinese Astrology

26Degree said:
It seems a bit incorrect to group the Chinese methods under an umbrella term of "Astrology". The more popular Chinese divination methods such as the 4-pillar are not really based on the energies or the motions of the stars in the sky, but how the 5 elements interact with seasonal changes.
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Totally agree.But currently we can not find a better way to translate...and western people have hard time remembering Chinese character or even Pinyin.
I am no translation professional.But I hope some one can do this for us.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Re: Chinese Astrology

If one reads Derek Walters books (such as his "Chinese Astrology Bible") there is consideration of the planets involved, but this is not based on aspectual relationships, dignities/debilities, etc, as in the West. Also the Chinese have primarily considered the Path of the Equator (which they call the "Red Path") in their celestial calculations, the "Yellow Path" (as they call it), the Path of the Sun, ie, our Ecliptic, has been a secondary consideration.
For me, the great value of Chinese chrono-astrology (which is a more specific term for the nature of the Chinese celestial art) is its concentration on the quality of TIME, whereas in Western astrology the concentration is on SPACE and THINGS IN SPACE (Vedic astology being particularly concentrated upon Things-in-Space): I consider each of these factors-Time, Space (as the pleroma of Space) and Things-in-Space (stars, Moon, planets, etc) to work with each other wholistically, in producing the effects and directions of the fundamental Cosmic impulse...
 
2

26Degree

Well-known member
Re: Chinese Astrology

dr. farr said:
If one reads Derek Walters books (such as his "Chinese Astrology Bible") there is consideration of the planets involved, but this is not based on aspectual relationships, dignities/debilities, etc, as in the West. Also the Chinese have primarily considered the Path of the Equator (which they call the "Red Path") in their celestial calculations, the "Yellow Path" (as they call it), the Path of the Sun, ie, our Ecliptic, has been a secondary consideration.
For me, the great value of Chinese chrono-astrology (which is a more specific term for the nature of the Chinese celestial art) is its concentration on the quality of TIME, whereas in Western astrology the concentration is on SPACE and THINGS IN SPACE (Vedic astology being particularly concentrated upon Things-in-Space): I consider each of these factors-Time, Space (as the pleroma of Space) and Things-in-Space (stars, Moon, planets, etc) to work with each other wholistically, in producing the effects and directions of the fundamental Cosmic impulse...
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As I've said before, the term "Astrology" can only apply to a specific branch of Chinese divination (which is basically what you are referring to). Methods like the 4-pillar or Fengshui are not "Astrology" since these do not involve heavenly bodies. In Chinese there is a more collective term similar in meaning to "Metaphysics" or "Mysticism" known as "Xuan Xue".
 
Mark

Mark

Well-known member
Re: Chinese Astrology

I'm assuming that Chinese astrological texts would suffer from the same problems in translation as the I Ching texts. Put simply, the revered writings would have been written in a poetic manner, allowing many different meanings for specific words, which could change the meaning of the sentences into three or four completely different things. In the original Chinese, all interpretations could be correct or at least have their place. This makes the text much more powerful in its native language, but also makes it impossible to translate. I know that the I Ching cannot possibly be fully translated to English, because you would lose at least half of the meaning by choosing English phrases. The translation of the I Ching to English would require the understanding and intellect of the original author (*cough* NOT Confucius *cough* *cough*) and would also require that he was just as literate in English as Chinese.
 
2

26Degree

Well-known member
Re: Chinese Astrology

Mark said:
I'm assuming that Chinese astrological texts would suffer from the same problems in translation as the I Ching texts. Put simply, the revered writings would have been written in a poetic manner, allowing many different meanings for specific words, which could change the meaning of the sentences into three or four completely different things. In the original Chinese, all interpretations could be correct or at least have their place. This makes the text much more powerful in its native language, but also makes it impossible to translate. I know that the I Ching cannot possibly be fully translated to English, because you would lose at least half of the meaning by choosing English phrases. The translation of the I Ching to English would require the understanding and intellect of the original author (*cough* NOT Confucius *cough* *cough*) and would also require that he was just as literate in English as Chinese.
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This is another generalization. Not all Chinese divination texts were written in the manner of the I-Ching despite the writings are in an ancient literary style. Some of them are not too difficult for modern day natives of the language to understand. 4-pillar classics such as "Di Tian Sui" and "Qiong Tong Bao Jian" are in fact quite comprehensible. As for translation purposes, the first challenge would be to create equivalent symbolic words in English for each of the 12 hours and the 10 elements (yin/yang principles for each of the 5 elements). Otherwise any translation would seem incredibly cumbersome.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Re: Chinese Astrology

There is a good deal of truth in what both Mark and 26Degree have posted above-still, we can-using some of the few highly competent translators-approximate our understanding of I Ching, the various forms/approaches to Chinese "astrology" (chrono-astrology), Classical Chinese Medicine, and other aspects of esoteric Chinese tradition. But we must carefully choose our translator/authorities in these fields, so as not to be misled.
 
eric1981

eric1981

Active member
Re: Chinese Astrology

dr. farr said:
There is a good deal of truth in what both Mark and 26Degree have posted above-still, we can-using some of the few highly competent translators-approximate our understanding of I Ching, the various forms/approaches to Chinese "astrology" (chrono-astrology), Classical Chinese Medicine, and other aspects of esoteric Chinese tradition. But we must carefully choose our translator/authorities in these fields, so as not to be misled.
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Agree.I Ching even for me,a Chinese,is far too difficult,not to mention the translation...
 
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