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  #51  
Unread 01-05-2021, 05:12 PM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Also, this election, they changed the laws about the verified signatures and 3rd party submissions.

When the ballots were received, THEY DID NOT REQUIRE SIGNATURES.

So anyone could send in any ballots they could find.


These changes were not about Covid. They were about flooding the precincts with Democrat votes, by Hell or High Water. Covid was just the cover for the scam.
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Also in California, I received one ballot in my name, to my correct address, and it definitely required a signature. I filled it out and took it to a certified drop box, and a few days later I received notification that it had been received and would be counted.

Why did my ballot require a signature and yours didn't?
There's no signature required on the ballot itself, but it is required on the envelope. I've been a poll worker--in California--and when people dropped off mail in ballots, we always had to check and make sure the envelope was signed. It wasn't our job to do any more verification than that (signature verification happens when the ballots are counted), but if it wasn't signed, we had to tell the voter it wouldn't be counted unless it was.

The changes for this election were at the level of signature verification, and in who could drop off your ballot for you. Previously, it had to be an immediate family member, and which family members it could be was spelled out. This time, it could be any person you designated. The envelope still had to be signed for the ballot to be counted.

People who vote in person sign the register, but not the ballot. For absentee voters, the envelope takes the place of the register.

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Last edited by Osamenor; 01-05-2021 at 05:23 PM.
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  #52  
Unread 01-05-2021, 05:53 PM
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
There's no signature required on the ballot itself, but it is required on the envelope. I've been a poll worker--in California--and when people dropped off mail in ballots, we always had to check and make sure the envelope was signed. It wasn't our job to do any more verification than that (signature verification happens when the ballots are counted), but if it wasn't signed, we had to tell the voter it wouldn't be counted unless it was.

The changes for this election were at the level of signature verification, and in who could drop off your ballot for you. Previously, it had to be an immediate family member, and which family members it could be was spelled out. This time, it could be any person you designated. The envelope still had to be signed for the ballot to be counted.

People who vote in person sign the register, but not the ballot. For absentee voters, the envelope takes the place of the register.
I knew my signature was required. What about name and address on the envelope?

Last edited by david starling; 01-05-2021 at 05:56 PM.
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  #53  
Unread 01-05-2021, 06:22 PM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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I knew my signature was required. What about name and address on the envelope?
Yes. When I was a poll worker, we had to make sure all that was filled out.

Again, for in person voters, that purpose would be served by the register, which had everyone's name and address in it.
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  #54  
Unread 01-05-2021, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Yes. When I was a poll worker, we had to make sure all that was filled out.

Again, for in person voters, that purpose would be served by the register, which had everyone's name and address in it.
Yes, I had always voted in-person, and they had to find your name, address and signature on a list before they handed over a ballot.

This was my first mail-in ballot. VERY convenient, especially with easy to reach, official drop boxes. No standing in line.
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  #55  
Unread 01-05-2021, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
There is a BIG difference between the old mail in voting rules and the new ones.

This election, In California, we were sent several ballots to be used for voting.

4 Dem ballots in my husband's name, 3 Dem ballots in our daughter's name, and she was sent 3 more to her current address. And we received 2 Dem ballots for the previous owners of this house, who haven't lived here for 6 years.

Oh yeah, I got ONE Republican ballot sent to me. So we received TWELVE Demo ballots that could be filled out to send back in.

It has NEVER been like that before.

My 90 yr old mom has mild alzheimers. She lives in an assisted living centre. She told me that she voted. I said that is great. But I know she is on lockdown.

I asked how it worked. Did she get the mail and fill it out ? NOOOOOOO---she innocently said that she does not know how it worked. But one of the aides, that she HAS NEVER MET BEFORE, passed it under the door for her and asked her to sign it. She said she had to fill it out and for him to come back. He told her he had to verify her signature first, so she just signed it and passed it back to him.

SHE NEVER HEARD FROM HIM AGAIN. She thought he was just too busy and forgot....

I bet they did that to the 200 residents as well.
Oh, that is surprising! How did you receive party-affiliated ballots for a general election? Party affiliations are relevant for primary elections.
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  #56  
Unread 01-05-2021, 07:54 PM
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Oh, that is surprising! How did you receive party-affiliated ballots for a general election? Party affiliations are relevant for primary elections.
I was wondering the same thing. I don't recall being singled out for my Party affiliation for the 2020 Presidential election.
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  #57  
Unread 01-05-2021, 07:56 PM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Oh, that is surprising! How did you receive party-affiliated ballots for a general election? Party affiliations are relevant for primary elections.
Good catch!

I don't know if you vote in California, passiflora, but that is indeed how it is here. In general elections, there's no such thing as a party affiliated ballot. Everyone has the same slate of candidates to choose from. People living at the same address would all get the same ballots, even if they're registered with different parties.

Even in primary elections, whether there are party affiliated ballots or not depends on what kind of primary it is. For a presidential primary, the ballots are party affiliated, but for congressional primaries and state government primaries, they're not. California has a top two system in those cases: all voters vote for their top choices, regardless of party, and then the top two vote getters face off in the general election.

This year, there was no Republican presidential primary. The only thing that could possibly have been on a party affiliated ballot for California Republicans would have been Republican committee offices. Other than that, there was nothing Republicans could vote on that non-Republicans weren't also voting on.
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Last edited by Osamenor; 01-05-2021 at 08:42 PM.
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  #58  
Unread 01-05-2021, 08:45 PM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

I just found the story confusing. I have not received multiple ballots for a single election before. One year I ******* up my absentee ballot - in ink - because the California ballot initiatives were redundant and impossible to sort out. To fix it, I went to vote in person, and my vote wasnít even counted that night because of possible irregularities. It was called provisional and counted in the 2 weeks after the election, to ensure it wasnít a double-vote since I was registered absentee, according to the poll worker.
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  #59  
Unread 01-05-2021, 08:49 PM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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I just found the story confusing. I have not received multiple ballots for a single election before.
Just multiple ballot cards, for the endless state propositions? And county ones, if you live in a county that tends to make a ballot proposition out of anything and everything.
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  #60  
Unread 01-05-2021, 09:00 PM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

Yes, precisely. I would doubt there is NOT fraud in elections, but the work of it seems unlikely to be outsourced to ordinary citizens as a strategy.
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  #61  
Unread 01-05-2021, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Yes, precisely. I would doubt there is NOT fraud in elections, but the work of it seems unlikely to be outsourced to ordinary citizens as a strategy.
I haven't seen any articles about California's vote results being fraudulent. Any links about it?
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  #62  
Unread 01-05-2021, 09:34 PM
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I haven't seen any articles about California's vote results being fraudulent. Any links about it?
Oh, were we talking about that?
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  #63  
Unread 01-05-2021, 09:36 PM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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I haven't seen any articles about California's vote results being fraudulent. Any links about it?
Probably no one finds it suspicious that people keep voting for the same party, in a bankrupt state?
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  #64  
Unread 01-05-2021, 09:50 PM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

Complexity masquerades as idiocy, often.
Like the labor organizers who wanted Uber drivers to be treated as employees literally didnít see driverless cars coming from behind the avalanche of self congratulations.
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  #65  
Unread 01-05-2021, 09:56 PM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Probably no one finds it suspicious that people keep voting for the same party, in a bankrupt state?
Dirius, you found it suspicious that people DIDN'T vote for the same party as before in Arizona and Georgia. Why do you hold a double standard for California?
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  #66  
Unread 01-05-2021, 09:58 PM
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Probably no one finds it suspicious that people keep voting for the same party, in a bankrupt state?
It's pretty much city vs rural now, 2/3 vs 1/3.

But California has voted in a lot of Republican governors over the years, and even voted majority for 5 Republican Presidents in a row until 1992, when it began electing Democrats.
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  #67  
Unread 01-05-2021, 11:45 PM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Dirius, you found it suspicious that people DIDN'T vote for the same party as before in Arizona and Georgia. Why do you hold a double standard for California?
AZ and GA have "republican" governors, they are still red states. They didn't really shift did they?
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  #68  
Unread 01-06-2021, 03:08 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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AZ and GA have "republican" governors, they are still red states. They didn't really shift did they?
Yes and no. They have Republican governors, but they went for Biden. Arizona sent some Democrats to Congress, while Georgia is still settling the matter. They can rightly be called swing states: might swing to either party, might vote in some of both, more or less equally.

California, meanwhile, has a Democrat governor, an overwhelmingly Democrat state legislature, and more Democrats than Republicans representing it in Congress. For California to shift parties would take a lot more change than is currently afoot in Arizona and Georgia.

Not to say it can't happen, but that's not where we're at currently.
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  #69  
Unread 01-06-2021, 04:05 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Yes and no. They have Republican governors, but they went for Biden. Arizona sent some Democrats to Congress, while Georgia is still settling the matter. They can rightly be called swing states: might swing to either party, might vote in some of both, more or less equally.
California, meanwhile, has a Democrat governor, an overwhelmingly Democrat state legislature, and more Democrats than Republicans representing it in Congress. For California to shift parties would take a lot more change than is currently afoot in Arizona and Georgia.
Then by your own logic, the comparison with California is quite bad, because California is a deep blue state (unlike GA or AZ who tend to flip), a failing state, that people somehow keep voting for the same party in power, despite its overall failures.

This means that Californians are either extremely naive, easily manipulated, and unaware of how the economy is supposed to work (43 billion deficit). Or that the elections there are rigged.
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  #70  
Unread 01-06-2021, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Then by your own logic, the comparison with California is quite bad, because California is a deep blue state (unlike GA or AZ who tend to flip), a failing state, that people somehow keep voting for the same party in power, despite its overall failures.

This means that Californians are either extremely naive, easily manipulated, and unaware of how the economy is supposed to work (43 billion deficit). Or that the elections there are rigged.
CA is a big state, and populous centers tend to run blue. The republican discourse especially where racially tinged or unconscious of differing life paths just doesnít fly well. Itís unfortunate, as California Democratísí profligate spending hardly reflects the utopian ideals of the partyís brain trust - itís mostly gone to swelling the bureaucracy.
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  #71  
Unread 01-06-2021, 04:48 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
CA is a big state, and populous centers tend to run blue. The republican discourse especially where racially tinged or unconscious of differing life paths just doesnít fly well. Itís unfortunate, as California Democratísí profligate spending hardly reflects the utopian ideals of the partyís brain trust - itís mostly gone to swelling the bureaucracy.
Actually, California Democrats as a group tend to be fiscally conservative. The fate of the ballot propositions in the latest election is evidence of that. Californians voted overwhelmingly against propositions that would have cost the state heavily. But at the same time, California Democrats tend to be socially liberal.

That's the voters, not necessarily the legislators (although the last few treasurers have been fiscally conservative). Still, it's proof that socially liberal doesn't always mean profligate spender.
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  #72  
Unread 01-06-2021, 04:49 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

And on the original subject of this thread: California liberals have their own set of anti-vaxxers. They're the reason why, a few years back, the state clamped down on vaccine exemptions.

Not all anti-vaxxers are conservative. Many are not.
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  #73  
Unread 01-06-2021, 05:00 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
I haven't seen any articles about California's vote results being fraudulent. Any links about it?
Why would you see any articles? Mainstream News is the spokesperson for the Dems. And Social Media blocks any mention of fraud, pretending they are the truth tellers, instead of LEFT wing censors.


Did you watch any of the Congressional Hearings or the Senate Hearings with the eyewitness testimony, listing the fraud? If not, you wouldn't see any articles or TV becAuse they refused to cover any of it.
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  #74  
Unread 01-06-2021, 05:24 AM
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Unhappy Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Why would you see any articles? Mainstream News is the spokesperson for the Dems. And Social Media blocks any mention of fraud, pretending they are the truth tellers, instead of LEFT wing censors.


Did you watch any of the Congressional Hearings or the Senate Hearings with the eyewitness testimony, listing the fraud? If not, you wouldn't see any articles or TV becAuse they refused to cover any of it.

Well, the real question is, how to avoid suspicion of fraud in the first place. That problem has to be solved before 2024.

But, objectively speaking, even if I preferred Trump would win, the fraud allegations aren't going to change the outcome.

The Election process, with two centuries of tradition behind it, is in motion. I've been carefully studying how it works, and there's no way the House will agree to switch the Electors from Biden to Trump, which means it won't be able to happen.

Pence doesn't really have the authority to switch them, even if he were willing to. And, the Supreme Court isn't going to intervene.

I realize I'm being the bearer of bad tidings, but is it better to know in advance, or to have false hopes for as long as possible?

Remember, most Hillary voters claim that the Russians, even if they were doing it all on their own, rigged the Election for Trump--and they'll always believe that. Hillary felt cheated, but she respected tradition, and conceded.

Most Trump voters claim the vote was rigged for Biden--and they'll always believe that. But Biden will become President nonetheless, just as Trump did, in 2016.

Last edited by david starling; 01-06-2021 at 05:52 AM.
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  #75  
Unread 01-06-2021, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Actually, California Democrats as a group tend to be fiscally conservative. The fate of the ballot propositions in the latest election is evidence of that. Californians voted overwhelmingly against propositions that would have cost the state heavily. But at the same time, California Democrats tend to be socially liberal.

That's the voters, not necessarily the legislators (although the last few treasurers have been fiscally conservative). Still, it's proof that socially liberal doesn't always mean profligate spender.
There are many misalignments between the California Democratic Party, to whom I was referring, and the liberal voters, who you are describing.
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