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  #26  
Unread 01-05-2021, 01:22 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

I'm not against wearing masks per se, I do wear mask when I'm out on the street even if they only grant like an extra 5% protection, I would take those odds any day.

But I don't think it is ok to arrest or force people into wearing masks, like it occurs in some places.

Isn't "my body, my choice"?

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  #27  
Unread 01-05-2021, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
I'm not against wearing masks per se, I do wear mask when I'm out on the street even if they only grant like an extra 5% protection, I would take those odds any day.

But I don't think it is ok to arrest or force people into wearing masks, like it occurs in some places.

Isn't "my body, my choice"?
I see a constant refrain, "The masks don't protect the wearer from the virus, they only provide protection for those around the wearer".

Have you seen this explanation?
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  #28  
Unread 01-05-2021, 01:31 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

oops....wrong place
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  #29  
Unread 01-05-2021, 01:33 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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I see a constant refrain, "The masks don't protect the wearer from the virus, they only provide protection for those around the wearer".

Have you seen this explanation?
All the time -and makes sense, masks do stop saliva particles.

But I believe that imposing people to wear masks, is the reason why they choose not to wear them. If you just recommend people to wear masks, they will.
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  #30  
Unread 01-05-2021, 01:35 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

Also, according to pew research:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...itical-divide/

America is exceptional in the nature of its political divide

Supporters of Biden and Donald Trump believe the differences between them are about more than just politics and policies. A month before the election, roughly eight-in-ten registered voters in both camps said their differences with the other side were about core American values, and roughly nine-in-ten – again in both camps – worried that a victory by the other would lead to “lasting harm” to the United States.

The U.S. is hardly the only country wrestling with deepening political fissures. Brexit has polarized British politics, the rise of populist parties has disrupted party systems across Europe, and cultural conflict and economic anxieties have intensified old cleavages and created new ones in many advanced democracies. America and other advanced economies face many common strains over how opportunity is distributed in a global economy and how our culture adapts to growing diversity in an interconnected world.

Why is America cleaved in this way?

"....By comparison, America’s relatively rigid, two-party electoral system stands apart by collapsing a wide range of legitimate social and political debates into a singular battle line that can make our differences appear even larger than they may actually be. And when the balance of support for these political parties is close enough for either to gain near-term electoral advantage – as it has in the U.S. for more than a quarter century – the competition becomes cutthroat and politics begins to feel zero-sum, where one side’s gain is inherently the other’s loss. Finding common cause – even to fight a common enemy in the public health and economic threat posed by the coronavirus – has eluded us.


Americans both see this problem and want to address it. Overwhelming majorities of both Trump (86%) and Biden (89%) supporters surveyed this fall said that their preferred candidate, if elected, should focus on addressing the needs of all Americans, “even if it means disappointing some of his supporters.”
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  #31  
Unread 01-05-2021, 01:36 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

Something else in particular to note is that the country is going through its first Pluto return. Along with the politics, are the mass exoduses outside of Cali & NY, as well as the rest existential threat of China closing in on being the largest economy in the world. I recall one non-American politician describing the US as currently being "turned inward", which I thought was an incisive way to look at what is happening to the American collective. Is this what Pluto returns are made of?
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  #32  
Unread 01-05-2021, 01:37 AM
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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All the time -and makes sense, masks do stop saliva particles.

But I believe that imposing people to wear masks, is the reason why they choose not to wear them. If you just recommend people to wear masks, they will.
That's true, unless they think the entire pandemic is a hoax to get control over the population.
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  #33  
Unread 01-05-2021, 01:39 AM
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Something else in particular to note is that the country is going through its first Pluto return. Along with the politics, are the mass exoduses outside of Cali & NY, as well as the rest existential threat of China closing in on being the largest economy in the world. I recall one non-American politician describing the US as currently being "turned inward", which I thought was an incisive way to look at what is happening to the American collective. Is this what Pluto returns are made of?
Wait....Is Pluto an astrological planet? Not everyone thinks so.
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  #34  
Unread 01-05-2021, 01:47 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

I wear masks in places that require me to do so -- work, stores and some public transportation services. Most of the time when I'm out my face is naked. Understandly, older people tend to be leery eyed while one-off sneezes tend to be met with people running for cover. Some can be disarmed when you meet them with levity, then all of a sudden they forget instantly that they were running away for dear life a moment ago.
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  #35  
Unread 01-05-2021, 02:02 AM
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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I wear masks in places that require me to do so -- work, stores and some public transportation services. Most of the time when I'm out my face is naked. Understandly, older people tend to be leery eyed while one-off sneezes tend to be met with people running for cover. Some can be disarmed when you meet them with levity, then all of a sudden they forget instantly that they were running away for dear life a moment ago.
Hey, I got severely reprimanded just for bringing my own bag into a store. There are bagging stations outside of some stores where you can bag your own groceries, so you don't "contaminate" the store counters, then they spray those down.

As for the 6 feet apart rule, some people panic if someone happens to accidentally brush up against them in the aisle.

The occupancy limits cause long lines waiting to be allowed in, and in the early morning hours, it's "seniors only" so they won't have to wait outside.

Last edited by david starling; 01-05-2021 at 02:05 AM.
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  #36  
Unread 01-05-2021, 02:17 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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That's true, unless they think the entire pandemic is a hoax to get control over the population.
I don't see why those things would contradict one another.

You can think the virus is being taken advantage of to conrol the population, while still believing is deadly. In my country our president loved the pandemic. It gave him the excuse to shut-down the courts and congress, and to rule by executive order ("por decreto" in spanish)

I do think the virus is more hyped than its meant to be. The death rate is rather low, and the virus is mostly dangerous to people "at risk" which are the elder and individuals with compromised immune systems.

Granted, our lifestyle is sometimes so unhealthy, there may be a lot of people with weak immune systems.

The way I see it, those who can be out working, should be out working if they want to. There is no reason to forcebly lock them down.
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  #37  
Unread 01-05-2021, 02:20 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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Something else in particular to note is that the country is going through its first Pluto return. Along with the politics, are the mass exoduses outside of Cali & NY, as well as the rest existential threat of China closing in on being the largest economy in the world. I recall one non-American politician describing the US as currently being "turned inward", which I thought was an incisive way to look at what is happening to the American collective. Is this what Pluto returns are made of?
Its not just the U.S. Every country is the same, with a big political divide between left and right.

In Argentina we also have a massive divide between left and right (zurdos/left-wing and liberales/right-wing), so does Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc.

It is the fundamental disagreement between those who believe in freedom and self-reliance, and those who believe in a daddy-state.
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  #38  
Unread 01-05-2021, 02:29 AM
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Its not just the U.S. Every country is the same, with a big political divide between left and right.

In Argentina we also have a massive divide between left and right (zurdos/left-wing and liberales/right-wing), so does Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc.

It is the fundamental disagreement between those who believe in freedom and self-reliance, and those who believe in a daddy-state.
Freedom to have an early stage abortion?
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  #39  
Unread 01-05-2021, 02:31 AM
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Hey, I got severely reprimanded just for bringing my own bag into a store. There are bagging stations outside of some stores where you can bag your own groceries, so you don't "contaminate" the store counters, then they spray those down.

As for the 6 feet apart rule, some people panic if someone happens to accidentally brush up against them in the aisle.

The occupancy limits cause long lines waiting to be allowed in, and in the early morning hours, it's "seniors only" so they won't have to wait outside.
Since the introduction of a policy that limited the amount the usage of plastic bags, folks have been carrying cloth and calico bags, sometimes bought at the store but oftentimes carried by customers.

Some establishments are more strict than others with sanitation. Like at a bank that I frequent they installed plexiglass at the teller stations and once a customer is finished with a transaction, the glass and area are wiped down before the next person goes.

The long line thing is probably felt worldwide. My remedy to that is to be earlier than everyone else (there's always someone earlier but I am able to quickly get what I need done anyway)
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  #40  
Unread 01-05-2021, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Its not just the U.S. Every country is the same, with a big political divide between left and right.

In Argentina we also have a massive divide between left and right (zurdos/left-wing and liberales/right-wing), so does Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc.

It is the fundamental disagreement between those who believe in freedom and self-reliance, and those who believe in a daddy-state.
There's also a similar divide in my country, although the division is more along the lines of class where one party tends to be more charitable to the wealthy than the other.

I'm not referring to the standard political conflict that every country has but the rise in intensity with the American situation -- not every country is currently experiencing rioting factions, mass exoduses and threats of states leaving to become an independent state, at least mine certainly isn't.

The article that Katydid linked alludes to the fact that the majority of Americans are fed up enough with the state of affairs that they rather the next president focus more on a uniting message than more bipartisan derisiveness.

Last edited by conspiracy theorist; 01-05-2021 at 02:42 AM.
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  #41  
Unread 01-05-2021, 03:14 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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There's also a similar divide in my country, although the division is more along the lines of class where one party tends to be more charitable to the wealthy than the other.

I'm not referring to the standard political conflict that every country has but the rise in intensity with the American situation -- not every country is currently experiencing rioting factions, mass exoduses and threats of states leaving to become an independent state, at least mine certainly isn't.

The article that Katydid linked alludes to the fact that the majority of Americans are fed up enough with the state of affairs that they rather the next president focus more on a uniting message than more bipartisan derisiveness.


But here is the problem with the bolded portion above--- I would LOVE to see this country united.

The problem is, the 'new' guy that claims to want to unite us, just led his minions on an illegal mission to gather millions of fraudulent votes. Many of us believe that the Dems literally stole the election by changing the rules in our voting system, and allowing unsigned, unverified mailed in ballots by the millions. And by allowing 'dead' people to be counted in the voting logs. And allowing illegals and people with Alzheimers, in hospitals, to send in 3rd party ballots by the thousands. Some counties had more votes logged in than they had registered voters. ...Not even discussing the new shady voting system that kept glitching and changing batches of votes from Trump to Biden. And the vans full of late night Ballot drop offs.

All of the above added millions of votes for Biden, all at the last minute. Many of the votes were added after the election date.

So why would we be eager to 'unite' with someone who we feel stole the election by fraud?

Also, when Trump won, the Dems and the press proudly created the RESIST movement, and boasted that Trump was not their Pre4sident and never would be. They continued with that attitude for the past 4 years.

So now suddenly, they want to disparage those who feel the same 'resistance' this time? Suddenly we should all 'come together' but under the umbrella of the divisive resistance movement from the past 4 years...

Last edited by katydid; 01-05-2021 at 03:17 AM.
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  #42  
Unread 01-05-2021, 03:29 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

You could probably go one step further than belief, as this link outlines the changes made to the voting system amidst covid.

Now to dig even further into this would be for people with more skin in the game, but nevertheless the information is certainly there to sift through. The problem with diving through first hand material is that it's raw and less digested, but at least you come out the other side with "purer" conclusions if you're able to turn that data into useful intelligence.
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  #43  
Unread 01-05-2021, 04:21 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

EVERY President of the 21st Century has been considered illegitimate by many, starting with the 2000 Election.

I don't know of ANY President of the 20th Century who was considered illegitimate. Disliked, or even hated by some, but not illegitimate.

The country was already 25% mail-in voting prior to the 2020 Election, including 5 States that were 100% mail in, and a lot of States, like Florida and Arizona that were around 30% mail-in. So, not trusting mail-ins is a 2020 addition to the reasons for not trusting the results.

The same voting machines were being used in 2016 as now, so that's another 2020 addition to the reasons for not trusting the results.

Make of it what you will!

Last edited by david starling; 01-05-2021 at 04:35 AM.
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  #44  
Unread 01-05-2021, 05:14 AM
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

If we named it the "Trump Vaccine", would he be flattered?

He has been complaining about not getting enough credit for it.
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  #45  
Unread 01-05-2021, 06:05 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

Vaccine ad campaign:



KNOCK OUT
that CHINA VIRUS WITH the TRUMP VACCINES!!! Make America GRRREAT Again!!!


As said by the voice of Tony the Tiger!

Last edited by david starling; 01-05-2021 at 06:44 AM.
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  #46  
Unread 01-05-2021, 08:45 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

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EVERY President of the 21st Century has been considered illegitimate by many, starting with the 2000 Election.

I don't know of ANY President of the 20th Century who was considered illegitimate. Disliked, or even hated by some, but not illegitimate.

The country was already 25% mail-in voting prior to the 2020 Election, including 5 States that were 100% mail in, and a lot of States, like Florida and Arizona that were around 30% mail-in. So, not trusting mail-ins is a 2020 addition to the reasons for not trusting the results.

The same voting machines were being used in 2016 as now, so that's another 2020 addition to the reasons for not trusting the results.

Make of it what you will!
There is a BIG difference between the old mail in voting rules and the new ones.

This election, In California, we were sent several ballots to be used for voting.

4 Dem ballots in my husband's name, 3 Dem ballots in our daughter's name, and she was sent 3 more to her current address. And we received 2 Dem ballots for the previous owners of this house, who haven't lived here for 6 years.

Oh yeah, I got ONE Republican ballot sent to me. So we received TWELVE Demo ballots that could be filled out to send back in.

It has NEVER been like that before.

My 90 yr old mom has mild alzheimers. She lives in an assisted living centre. She told me that she voted. I said that is great. But I know she is on lockdown.

I asked how it worked. Did she get the mail and fill it out ? NOOOOOOO---she innocently said that she does not know how it worked. But one of the aides, that she HAS NEVER MET BEFORE, passed it under the door for her and asked her to sign it. She said she had to fill it out and for him to come back. He told her he had to verify her signature first, so she just signed it and passed it back to him.

SHE NEVER HEARD FROM HIM AGAIN. She thought he was just too busy and forgot....

I bet they did that to the 200 residents as well.
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  #47  
Unread 01-05-2021, 08:47 AM
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Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

Also, this election, they changed the laws about the verified signatures and 3rd party submissions.

When the ballots were received, THEY DID NOT REQUIRE SIGNATURES.

So anyone could send in any ballots they could find.


These changes were not about Covid. They were about flooding the precincts with Democrat votes, by Hell or High Water. Covid was just the cover for the scam.

Last edited by katydid; 01-05-2021 at 08:50 AM.
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  #48  
Unread 01-05-2021, 09:00 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

Also in California, I received one ballot in my name, to my correct address, and it definitely required a signature. I filled it out and took it to a certified drop box, and a few days later I received notification that it had been received and would be counted.

Why did my ballot require a signature and yours didn't?

Last edited by david starling; 01-05-2021 at 09:04 AM.
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  #49  
Unread 01-05-2021, 09:14 AM
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

Ballots with no name or address and no signature? You really think that they would be counted?
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  #50  
Unread 01-05-2021, 09:22 AM
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Smile Re: This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

Nation-wide, there were 7 million more registered Democrats than Republicans who voted in 2020. And you don't consider that a reason why Biden just might have fairly won?
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