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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Unread 09-23-2018, 08:54 AM
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Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

From my own astrological understanding and research, I think you can tell a lot more about a person and their life based on the aspects they have.

For example, someone's sun in Capricorn vs. their Sun aspect Saturn. I think the person with the Sun in aspect to Saturn is going have a more dry, practical, and Capricorny personality and view of the world than the person who actually has their sun in Capricorn.

When people say their sun, moon, and rising to describe their general personality, they have it all wrong...what they should say is their strongest sun aspect, strongest moon aspect, and strongest rising aspect.

I think zodiac signs and houses flavor the aspects and give a richer understanding. But the aspects are the actual bones and structure to a true discovery of a person's psyche.

Zodiac signs and houses are wishy washy. Especially since there's already a disagreement among astrologers about which zodiac system we should use, and what house system we should use.. but aspects are pretty straight forward. A square will always be 90 degrees. A conjunction will always be less than 10 degrees. A trine will always be 120. You can't really argue with that.

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Unread 09-23-2018, 09:17 AM
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Indeed.

Insightful. Important.

And I really like "Capricorny".
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Unread 09-23-2018, 09:25 AM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

I like it too. It's a nice adjective.

Sometimes I forget, and I use it around non-astro people and they're like, "What?"

But yeah, aspects are amazingly important.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 09:50 AM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

There will be a lot of arguments that disagree with the hypothesis, all in good faith though . I'll start:

1. The house is where that planet comes alive. For example, Mars in 7th are combative only in the relationship sector, but not other areas of life, versus someone with Mars in 11th (friendship and social sphere) or 6th (work). Knowing the area in life you are combative in, is more important than the flavoring, say Mars square Jupiter or Uranus.

2. Strength of planets by exaltation, rulership and similar elements can override traditional aspect intepretations. For example, I have Venus square Saturn, and if you read most interpretations this is a pretty miserable aspect in life. Yet I have not experienced most of the negative interpretations, and feel it also adds positive aspects to my life. I attribute this to Saturn exalted in Libra and squaring the same element in Gemini.

3. You can discover the big picture of a person by the hemisphere layout. Top, bottom, left, right predominance mean different things - extroversion, introversion, pioneer/initiator, dependent/reactive. If you only have the aspects, and not knowing how the hemisphere (or pattern) is laid out. One will be completely wrong in assessing important life patterns.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 09:57 AM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

Yeah, yeah I already know all that; I've never found those techniques really helpful.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 10:28 AM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

I am glad aspects by itself work for you. For me, the order is different due to sheer time and practicality.

I can tell a lot by looking at all the signs that a person possess, in combination. It gives me a good picture of what type of person he/she is. Signs in combinations work together to form an overall impression of the character, potential issues and conflicts. And it only takes me about 2 minutes to grasp it (actually its more like 30 seconds). But analyzing all the aspects and synthesizing it first, will just take longer without the time to result payoff.

After that, I look at the aspects to understand where the more specific life issues and conflicts are - ego, mind, love, etc.

I think aspects can definitely override sign placements in strength and weight, but not up to 100x more important. If its a personal methodology and it works for you, that's great. I believe everyone should design methodologies that work for them.

But there is just way too much nuance in astrology to give singular weight to one area. Most astrologers will have their own methodologies in interpretations. And they all work.

On the other hand, I thought the below was interesting. I was trying to describe myself with the below in mind. And I was curious how you would describe yourself using it.

"When people say their sun, moon, and rising to describe their general personality, they have it all wrong...what they should say is their strongest sun aspect, strongest moon aspect, and strongest rising aspect."

Last edited by GemwDepth; 09-23-2018 at 07:50 PM.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 10:40 AM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Zodiac signs and houses are wishy washy. Especially since there's already a disagreement among astrologers about which zodiac system we should use, and what house system we should use.. but aspects are pretty straight forward.
Oh really? What orbs do you use?
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Unread 09-23-2018, 10:56 AM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

i think that its so important to understand that its not that abstract, you cant say that one is 100 times more important than others- its not like that, its not some assignment of one aspect of astrology being more important than another, i feel like everything works together and you cannot simply state that aspects are of greater importance to understanding someone- again as GemwDepth mentioned- house positions, disposition, rulership, exaltation, the element the planets are in, wether they are on top of the chart or deep in the 4th house, i would even say i personally also always even make sure to check what kind of phase the moon was in! was it balsamic or on the eve before a full moon? this all MATTERS

and why does this ALL matter and not one thing can be more important than the other

because we are essentially dealing with a very complex subject, without any doubt the most complex one there is in the entire universe- which is the human life.

it has so many layers, it has so much depth, it has so much DATA, it has so much intelligence, it is- something both spiritual and material, something that is tangible but also has so much that isn't easy to grasp- everyone has a life but no one has the same life- its truly a riddle of a million years- i cannot even find the right words here to describe it which is something my gemini moon never has any trouble with so let that just illustrate the complexity of it all.

but understanding human life, the human mind, the human psyche is what its all about isnt it

essentially that IS what astrology is about- understanding the human psyche, the human life, understanding the essence and the entirety of it all- and what is most interesting and complex of all is that we ourselves, meaning our minds, are trying to understand itself- which is a paradox- as so many things are.

saying that aspects are the one thing that defines a personality, a life- making them 100 times more important and basically claiming other important astrological factors are mwah..just not as important , is an insult to not only human personalities- making them out to be something so simple a mere understanding in aspects would grant you all the knowledge you need. its not like that. everything works together- for such a complex subject as human life- we need to look through a similar complex lens- and that means using ALL the astrological knowledge we have- making our own assumptions through our work and research, testing out everything we can to see what happens- its an ongoing process is it- it will never end with just aspects and there ya go thats that- the more we study, the more we search for answers- the more we will know, the more we will understand. and that would certainly require a more complex approach than mere..you know...aspects. thats all.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 11:08 AM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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Oh really? What orbs do you use?
lol
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Unread 09-23-2018, 07:27 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
I am glad aspects by itself work for you. For me, the order is different due to sheer time and practicality.

I can tell a lot by looking at all the signs that a person possess, in combination. It gives me a good picture of what type of person he/she is. Signs in combinations work together to form an overall impression of the character, potential issues and conflicts. And it only takes me about 2 minutes to grasp it (actually its more like 30 seconds). But analyzing all the aspects and synthesizing it first, will just take longer without the time to result payoff.
Well GemwDepth, I would say that looking at aspects first are more practical. Also, aspects between generational planets are kind of useless, so I don't incluce those, UNLESS the a personal planet is involved. So like Neptune and Jupiter could be opposite, but it won't mean anything unless Venus is like conjunct Neptune and also opposite Jupiter.

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After that, I look at the aspects to understand where the more specific life issues and conflicts are - ego, mind, love, etc.
Yes.

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Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
I think aspects can definitely override sign placements in strength and weight, but not up to 100x more important. If its a personal methodology and it works for you, that's great. I believe everyone should design methodologies that work for them.

But there is just way too much nuance in astrology to give singular weight to one area. Most astrologers will have their own methodologies in interpretations. And they all work.
I guess astrologers should do what's best for them.

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On the other hand, I thought the below was interesting. I was trying to describe myself with the below in mind. And I was curious how you would describe yourself using it.

"When people say their sun, moon, and rising to describe their general personality, they have it all wrong...what they should say is their strongest sun aspect, strongest moon aspect, and strongest rising aspect."
I think the strongest aspect is the one with the tightest orb and strongest type of aspect...sometimes you'll just have to pick one over the other despite them two aspects working. Conjunction is strongest, then opposition, then trine, then square, then sextile, etc... I think a square with a 0 degree orb is more powerful than 3 degree orb opposition though.

So I would have Sun-Saturn, Moon-Mercury, and Asc-Mars as my most dominant aspects.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 07:31 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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Oh really? What orbs do you use?
Conjunctions - 10 degrees
Oppositions - 8 degrees
Trines - 7 degrees
squares - 6 degrees
sextile - 4 degrees
minor - 2 degrees
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Unread 09-23-2018, 07:47 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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Conjunctions - 10 degrees
Oppositions - 8 degrees
Trines - 7 degrees
squares - 6 degrees
sextile - 4 degrees
minor - 2 degrees
I prefer whole sign aspects durrr.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 07:49 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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Originally Posted by Januarystorm View Post
i think that its so important to understand that its not that abstract, you cant say that one is 100 times more important than others- its not like that, its not some assignment of one aspect of astrology being more important than another, i feel like everything works together and you cannot simply state that aspects are of greater importance to understanding someone- again as GemwDepth mentioned- house positions, disposition, rulership, exaltation, the element the planets are in, wether they are on top of the chart or deep in the 4th house, i would even say i personally also always even make sure to check what kind of phase the moon was in! was it balsamic or on the eve before a full moon? this all MATTERS

and why does this ALL matter and not one thing can be more important than the other

because we are essentially dealing with a very complex subject, without any doubt the most complex one there is in the entire universe- which is the human life.
Well yes, why do you think I'm trying to simplify it down to aspects? Much easier, concise and accurate.

But I understand where you are coming from.

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Originally Posted by Januarystorm View Post
it has so many layers, it has so much depth, it has so much DATA, it has so much intelligence, it is- something both spiritual and material, something that is tangible but also has so much that isn't easy to grasp- everyone has a life but no one has the same life- its truly a riddle of a million years- i cannot even find the right words here to describe it which is something my gemini moon never has any trouble with so let that just illustrate the complexity of it all.

but understanding human life, the human mind, the human psyche is what its all about isnt it

essentially that IS what astrology is about- understanding the human psyche, the human life, understanding the essence and the entirety of it all- and what is most interesting and complex of all is that we ourselves, meaning our minds, are trying to understand itself- which is a paradox- as so many things are.

saying that aspects are the one thing that defines a personality, a life- making them 100 times more important and basically claiming other important astrological factors are mwah..just not as important , is an insult to not only human personalities- making them out to be something so simple a mere understanding in aspects would grant you all the knowledge you need. its not like that. everything works together- for such a complex subject as human life- we need to look through a similar complex lens- and that means using ALL the astrological knowledge we have- making our own assumptions through our work and research, testing out everything we can to see what happens- its an ongoing process is it- it will never end with just aspects and there ya go thats that- the more we study, the more we search for answers- the more we will know, the more we will understand. and that would certainly require a more complex approach than mere..you know...aspects. thats all.
Well, I often find myself trying really hard to justify or make excuses for the poor validity of zodiac signs. Especially when I talk to normal people about their astrology charts. If their sun is in cancer, and I say they are caring and empathetic when they are simply not that, it's frustrating to try and explain or make up some BS to make it fit.

But the aspects are so much easier to make sense of and to explain to the average person who has no idea of astrology.

Like three people that I really admire: Jordan Peterson, Ayn Rand, and Peter Schiff ALL have Jupiter-Mercury aspects to tight degrees. Rand has her mercury in Capricorn, Schiff in Pisces, and Peterson his in Gemini. I don't understand how their mercury in the signs really help. I can see them giving a kind of flavor, but even then it still doesn't work for me. Peter Schiff is an economist, not something that would make sense for a mercury in pisces person.

But what all these people have in common that is very obvious is that they all have really strong opinions, very interesting thoughts, and dominate conversations with ideas, which are all traits of the mercury-jupiter aspect.

And then the houses are just even more confusing...

I found a really awesome astrologer on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/DavidCochrane100/featured

He actually takes a more scientific and evidence-based approach to astrology that I really appreciate because most astrologers kind of just say a bunch of stuff without really being able to prove it or truly understand it.

One of his videos on the zodiac signs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67OQS0DgFU

It really changed my opinion on the zodiac signs. He ultimately said that the zodiac signs really have nothing to do with character. And that the zodiac signs have a lot more to do with the lens that we look through. He says that zodiac signs are seen as archetypes or characters and its just difficult to try and force someone into an archetype. So Leos are not necessarily kingly and charismatic and dignified, but they take a Leo approach to life.

He also said mentioned that aspects were more important for understanding one's character, and when he said that it really solidified my belief that aspects are way more important than anything else going on in the chart.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 07:50 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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When people say their sun, moon, and rising to describe their general personality, they have it all wrong...what they should say is their strongest sun aspect, strongest moon aspect, and strongest rising aspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
On the other hand, I thought the below was interesting. I was trying to describe myself with the below in mind. And I was curious how you would describe yourself using it.

"When people say their sun, moon, and rising to describe their general personality, they have it all wrong...what they should say is their strongest sun aspect, strongest moon aspect, and strongest rising aspect."

I think it'll be more fun if the thread says: Let's start a game. Describe yourself with my methodology. Use your strongest rising aspect, sun aspect and moon aspect! Does it fit? Who are you?

Last edited by GemwDepth; 09-23-2018 at 07:59 PM.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 07:57 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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I think it'll be more fun if the thread says: Let's start a game. Describe yourself with my methodology. Use your strongest rising aspect, sun aspect and moon aspect! Does it fit? Who are you?
Yeah, it would be fun. Finding the strongest sun aspect is actually kind of difficult.

I think the game should be changed even further.

All of the sun aspects. All of your moon aspects, and all of your rising aspects.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 07:59 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

And unlike you guys, Greybeard actually agrees with me and he seems to be really wise regarding astrological stuff.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 08:09 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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And unlike you guys, Greybeard actually agrees with me and he seems to be really wise regarding astrological stuff.
Januarystorm agrees with me and she seems wiser regarding astrological "stuff"!
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Unread 09-23-2018, 08:11 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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Januarystorm agrees with me and she seems wiser regarding astrological "stuff"!
Disagree.
.....
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Unread 09-23-2018, 08:12 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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Yeah, it would be fun. Finding the strongest sun aspect is actually kind of difficult.

I think the game should be changed even further.

All of the sun aspects. All of your moon aspects, and all of your rising aspects.
That's too hard for most people to integrate. If you stick with only 1, like the most important aspect as you say. Or just ask them to pick one if they can't decide. Its easier for people to use it to describe themselves.

My Sun has no Ptolemaic aspects, I was going to describe myself as lost.

Last edited by GemwDepth; 09-23-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 08:16 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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That's too hard for most people to integrate. If you stick with only 1, like the most important aspect as you say. Its easier for people to use it to describe themselves.

My Sun has no Ptolemaic aspects, I was going to describe myself as lost.
Well, I think we can all agree on in this thread is that astrology is complicated. If we can't use multiple aspects, then maybe the whole, "sun, moon, rising", "powerfun sun, moon rising aspects" thing shouldn't be used because it's hardly accurate in describing someones personality.

Your sun has no conjunction, square, opposition, sextiles or trines?? That's pretty freaky
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Unread 09-23-2018, 08:34 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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Your sun has no conjunction, square, opposition, sextiles or trines?? That's pretty freaky
It has a very loose trine to Pluto by 9 degrees. And if you use tight orbs, or traditional astrology, it has no aspects at all!

According to Noel Tyl, the 'looser' aspects only comes into the picture after a person is older and more spiritually evolved. His theory is that a natal potential is written into a chart regardless. People grows into it with time. And soul maturity. Versus the tight degree aspects are traits that shows immediately in your childhood and early adulthood.

Maybe in my middle age the potential will come out.


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Well, I think we can all agree on in this thread is that astrology is complicated. If we can't use multiple aspects, then maybe the whole, "sun, moon, rising", "powerfun sun, moon rising aspects" thing shouldn't be used because it's hardly accurate in describing someones personality.
Yes but it will be fun. And you get to test if your theory has validity. If you design such a game, please invite me.
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Unread 09-23-2018, 08:41 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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It has a very loose trine to Pluto by 9 degrees. And if you use tight orbs, or traditional astrology, it has no aspects at all!

According to Noel Tyl, the 'looser' aspects only comes into the picture after a person is older and more spiritually evolved. His theory is that a natal potential is written into a chart regardless. People grows into it with time. And soul maturity. Versus the tight degree aspects are traits that shows immediately in your childhood and early adulthood.

Maybe in my middle age the potential will come out.
That's an interesting interpretation. I like it. Is Noel Tyl a modern astrologer?

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Yes but it will be fun. And you get to test if your theory has validity. If you design such a game, please invite me.
Dude, I already know it's valid.

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=121270
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Unread 09-23-2018, 09:06 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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That's too hard for most people to integrate.

If you stick with only 1, like the most important aspect as you say.
Or just ask them to pick one if they can't decide.
Its easier for people to use it to describe themselves.

My Sun has no Ptolemaic aspects,
I was going to describe myself as lost.
FERAL aka WILD
= when a planet is alone in a sign
without any companions
and
is out of orb of all aspect with any other planet.

Johannes Schoerner, in his Opusculum Astrologicum
assigned three points of debility to a feral planet and wrote of it:
"It is called feral when it is in a sign where there is no other planet,
nor even the rays of any other planets.
As long as it is in the sign in that state it is said to be feral;
it is a planet that is in a sign alone
without even the other planets rays".

Al Biruni (11th cent.), wrote:
"When a planet is in a sign
and no other planet has been in aspect with it
from the time of its entry to that of its exit,
it is said to be feral in its course.
This is practically impossible with the superior planets
and the Sun,
and can rarely occur,
but with the Moon it frequently occurs .
Some people say that when the Moon is feral,
this is a substitute for conjunction
with the planets in whose terms it happens to be within the sign,
but this opinion is trivial and quite unsupported."
- The Book of Instruction in the Elements of the Art of Astrology v.504 & 505
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/feral.html
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Unread 09-23-2018, 09:29 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

Hi,

I hope the purpose of this thread is to open a discussion and not assert what one thinks to be true.

From my over a decade of practising Astrology seriously and two decades of studying it (to date), I can share that placements of planets in signs is extremely important. A sign gives a planet either strength (through dignity or exaltation) or negates that (through detriment or fall). The stronger the placement of a planet in a sign, the more beneficial that planet is for the native. Where does such a planet show its benefit - in the matters of the house it rules, firstly and then also in the house it it placed in. For instance, my Venus is exalted and rules my 10th house - my career has been a feather in my cap position wise and through always being employed. My Mars is exalted, too and rules my parental/family house and also my 9th house. I did quite a bit of my higher education based on scholarships of merit as well as am very well-travelled. Touch wood (yes, I am somewhat superstitious). My Moon is in its detriment and rules my 12th house and I have often suffered from insomnia, waking up many times in the middle of the night, and have had my fair share of people working against me undercover - mostly women (Moon after all).

What strong planets (through their sign placements) also help in is mitigating the negative effects of poorly placed planets via aspects. So, if a strong Venus is conjunct or sextile a fallen Mars, it will 'lift' that Mars up somewhat and somewhat lessen its harmful aspects. For instance, it could be that the native often has/faces confrontations with or push-backs from others at their workplace. However, due to the presence of a dignified Venus (harmony), such confrontations or disputes may end amicably or less offensively.

House placements of planets is also very important. For instance, that same strong Venus, if placed in the 10th house, will energise the matters of that house through its positive energies, so in a beneficial way. Let us say the 10th house is in Taurus and so is that Venus in Taurus and in the 10th house - that could mean a strong career, which is also lucrative and satisfying (all Venus). If Mars is in the 10th house in Taurus, then that Mars is in its detriment and can actually hinder (due to obstacles) the success that could have the matters of the 10th house could have otherwise enjoyed, due to its conj. to Venus. So, that conjunction plays out in the 10th house, again underlining the importance of the placement of the planets in the houses.

Anybody on AW, in particular reading this thread, I would strongly urge you to not leave out any of the three things: sign placement, house placement of planets and aspects between them. Your interpretation else would be incomplete and also not completely correct.

I do very much agree though that aspects between two generational planets (Ura, Nep, Plu) are almost useless in a natal chart study. Also, one of the reasons (expressing my own opinion here) I don't ascribe to using generational planets as sign rulers.
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Last edited by aquarius7000; 09-23-2018 at 10:40 PM.
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GemwDepth (09-23-2018)
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Unread 09-23-2018, 09:42 PM
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Re: Planet Aspects are 100x more important than planets in houses or zodiac signs

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
That's an interesting interpretation. I like it. Is Noel Tyl a modern astrologer?
Yes and famous. Author of many books. Harvard graduate (not that that matters in astrology). Obsessed with Quindeciles.

https://www.noeltyl.com/menu.shtml

Last edited by GemwDepth; 09-23-2018 at 09:45 PM.
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