Moon void
- Thread starter tikana
- Start date
lillyjgc
Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Yes, ptolemaically speaking this is true, but I personally would not discount the fact that the moon will be quincunx mercury venus uranus and the sun! This would be a bit unusual I think., having virtually a trip through a sign without making any ptolemaic aspects...
Lillyjgc
Lillyjgc
Ladistardust
Member
hello, i would like to warm up, i am new and i send my congratulations to all of you.
i agree with tikana until 23 of acuarius voc, but then i would consider the opposition to neptune.
i agree with tikana until 23 of acuarius voc, but then i would consider the opposition to neptune.
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Ladistardust
Member
also if there will nothing happen, since starting something new with moon voc won t have any chance, or what?
lillyjgc
Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Ladistardust, (welcome to the forum)....
In answer to your question, yes the moon is *technically* void of course- for horary purposes, yet William Lilly himself used inconjuncts so it wouldnt be quite right to say *nothing will come of anything*- The world is still spinning, people ARE still getting on with things and initiating projects...the world doesnt stop because the moon is in a void phase- it just means its not a good time to ask a horary question because the moon is the key player in telling us *what will happen* and when void ,the moon's not describing that-so the horarists get to have a day or two off!
cheers lillyjgc
In answer to your question, yes the moon is *technically* void of course- for horary purposes, yet William Lilly himself used inconjuncts so it wouldnt be quite right to say *nothing will come of anything*- The world is still spinning, people ARE still getting on with things and initiating projects...the world doesnt stop because the moon is in a void phase- it just means its not a good time to ask a horary question because the moon is the key player in telling us *what will happen* and when void ,the moon's not describing that-so the horarists get to have a day or two off!
cheers lillyjgc
Ladistardust
Member
hey thats new for me about the inconjunct used by Lilly, i thaught he used just ptolomaic aspects.Thank you.
I think horary would be still in use, since i could use the last aspect the moon made and the next one it will make, even two days ahead.
For sure world keeps on turning, i also was born with the moon voc.
I think horary would be still in use, since i could use the last aspect the moon made and the next one it will make, even two days ahead.
For sure world keeps on turning, i also was born with the moon voc.
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Hmm. It appears I have misunderstood the rules. I did not know that if you or anyone else starts a thread, anyone else has no right to post their ideas.tikana said:
You have stated that your friend has said this:
"Outer planets count ONLY when they are aspecting an angle at conjunction only!"
Are you now saying that because you started this thread, no one has the right to disagree?
Gaer
lillyjgc
Senior Member, Educational board Editor
"Astro.com is not built to run horaries.. it is a great place to store them but not great place to get accurate reading nor accurate receptions/dignities etc cause it was not built to do that"
Any program whatsoever can be used to draw a horary chart-which is, after all, just a chart of the current transits.....Of course you may have to work out the dignities and receptions *by hand* so to speak- And remember to cast the chart using Regiomontanus cusps....but most programs allow you to set orbs and some even allow one to restrict the aspect configurations- eg:in horary semi-squares arent used so you can exclude them from the chart. If you dont have a program you can cast a chart *the old fashioned way* using an ephemeris- the way people like myself and Gaer have done *pre computer era*....In fact, when one does charts that way one gets a very different concept of planetary movements- but its very time-consuming.
I think theres no reason why astro.com charts can't be used seeing as they give such a versatile range of options for chart drawing...
Cheers Lillyjgc
Any program whatsoever can be used to draw a horary chart-which is, after all, just a chart of the current transits.....Of course you may have to work out the dignities and receptions *by hand* so to speak- And remember to cast the chart using Regiomontanus cusps....but most programs allow you to set orbs and some even allow one to restrict the aspect configurations- eg:in horary semi-squares arent used so you can exclude them from the chart. If you dont have a program you can cast a chart *the old fashioned way* using an ephemeris- the way people like myself and Gaer have done *pre computer era*....In fact, when one does charts that way one gets a very different concept of planetary movements- but its very time-consuming.
I think theres no reason why astro.com charts can't be used seeing as they give such a versatile range of options for chart drawing...
Cheers Lillyjgc
tikana
Well-known member
gaer said:Hmm. It appears I have misunderstood the rules. I did not know that if you or anyone else starts a thread, anyone else has no right to post their ideas.
You have stated that your friend has said this:
"Outer planets count ONLY when they are aspecting an angle at conjunction only!"
Are you now saying that because you started this thread, no one has the right to disagree?
Gaer
No, Gaer
I have noticed but i didnt fully realize it until it has been pointed out to me that outer planets have a very significant role in horaries at the angles! HOWEVER, you can get the same result/indication from traditional planets. During William Lilly's time, he didnt know of existence of outer planets nor if he did, he never used them but he seemed to get the same answer on both .. traditional and modern. Leo was practicing only modern rulers. If you apply Leo's theory into William Lilly's charts, you will come up with the same answer and vice versa.
Cheers
Tik
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Tik, I have absolutely no argument with what you are saying, and I support your right to express whatever opinion you have.tikana said:
My point was that I don't want this to turn into another "traditional vs. modern war", which has all but pulled this forum apart recently.
As someone who knows almost nothing about horary—and notice that I freely admit my own lack of knowledge here—I would assume that there are conflicts between those who are following Lilly, who of course did not use the outer planets (which we both know were not yet discoverd), those who wish to use them in the same way as the seven traditional planets, and those who blend a bit, using the outer planets for some aspects.
For instance, the moment that you consider that "outer planets have a very significant role in horaries at the angles", you have departed from what I understand to be the purely traditional viewpoint.
The idea that two astrologers, one who does not use the outers, and one who does, will come up with the same result at all times is a leap of faith I'm not willing to make. It assumes that horary is infallible, that no mistakes will be made using any system, traditional or otherwise, and my own natural skeptism makes me doubt that.
Gaer
tikana
Well-known member
Gaer
there is no argument. You should come to the same conclusion using either traditional or modern .. I can post 1 chart from the book .. and i can retype the modern analysis and with traditional one so you can see what is going on .. if you want, of course! you can mix them but dont overbend it.. i tried.. it doesnt work as effective as it should.. live and learn.
the thing is moon in void charts have a dual face.. Sometimes it means NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT and sometimes it means NOTHING WILL COME OF IT.
How do you tell 2 apart?
A. you must have an aspect between 2 significators. Moon will validate the outcome unless it rules the significator or a thing/person in a question
B. you must have strong reception/essential dignity.. if you have moon in void and your 2 keyplayers are debilitated, then you have a problem! However, that is not even the nail to the coffin.. if you have venus/jupiter aspect to any of your key players, it could turn into a YES.
To be honest, I would not put outer planets to the front.. if the chart is unclear.. i use outers as a backup.. I rather stick with pure traditional horary hands down. I also noticed if you put your horary on top of your natal, it tells the story what is to come as well.. Also, pay attention when planet or angle of the horary falls on your natal chart angle or a planet. even if the chart is not radical by Lilly's stand point, you could still validate the chart using your natal chart. The only thing i noticed LIlly mentioning was late asce falling into the person's age.
we are all here to learn ..no one is flaw-less even if people think they are .. but they are not
it is not like we are here solving mundane problems of the world that would put millions of people at risk. There is no stress on getting the answer right.. getting desired answer with a real life.. well, that is a diff story
lemme throw you an example
take a look here http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1523&d=1204273751
this is the sound chart
1. if you look at my professional change threads, you will see how weak my ruler is in every chart! .. we ask WHY.. well, thing is simple, if you are going to your friends'house where you do not know anyone, at first you will feel uncomfortable, right? same thing here.. UNLESS, you know something and vaguely know how it work or whatever you are askign about .. then you should see some dignity somewhere.. here my mars even though it is in 8th house but it has very very strong connection to Mercury by sign and triplicity.. where as Mercury ruler of 10th is completely oblivious of me but moon hooks to mercury. that is a yes. Even though MH degree is 1 virgo meaning that it is something new.. moon will oppose mars at the end it will not be all games as i would imagine sitting around and screwing with the controls.. saturn on MH or it will not turn to be a profession.
2. same situation plugging in a modern rulers... Uranus/neptune/pluto in 10th house are NEWCOMERS in the field. Guess what..
Pluto/Neptune/Uranus are not in 10th house!
in the sound chart .. cause i have messed with sound for a year in school.. i understand it so it will not be entirely brand new..
does this explain a bit?
Cheers
T
there is no argument. You should come to the same conclusion using either traditional or modern .. I can post 1 chart from the book .. and i can retype the modern analysis and with traditional one so you can see what is going on .. if you want, of course! you can mix them but dont overbend it.. i tried.. it doesnt work as effective as it should.. live and learn.
the thing is moon in void charts have a dual face.. Sometimes it means NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT and sometimes it means NOTHING WILL COME OF IT.
How do you tell 2 apart?
A. you must have an aspect between 2 significators. Moon will validate the outcome unless it rules the significator or a thing/person in a question
B. you must have strong reception/essential dignity.. if you have moon in void and your 2 keyplayers are debilitated, then you have a problem! However, that is not even the nail to the coffin.. if you have venus/jupiter aspect to any of your key players, it could turn into a YES.
To be honest, I would not put outer planets to the front.. if the chart is unclear.. i use outers as a backup.. I rather stick with pure traditional horary hands down. I also noticed if you put your horary on top of your natal, it tells the story what is to come as well.. Also, pay attention when planet or angle of the horary falls on your natal chart angle or a planet. even if the chart is not radical by Lilly's stand point, you could still validate the chart using your natal chart. The only thing i noticed LIlly mentioning was late asce falling into the person's age.
we are all here to learn ..no one is flaw-less even if people think they are .. but they are not
it is not like we are here solving mundane problems of the world that would put millions of people at risk. There is no stress on getting the answer right.. getting desired answer with a real life.. well, that is a diff story
lemme throw you an example
take a look here http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1523&d=1204273751
this is the sound chart
1. if you look at my professional change threads, you will see how weak my ruler is in every chart! .. we ask WHY.. well, thing is simple, if you are going to your friends'house where you do not know anyone, at first you will feel uncomfortable, right? same thing here.. UNLESS, you know something and vaguely know how it work or whatever you are askign about .. then you should see some dignity somewhere.. here my mars even though it is in 8th house but it has very very strong connection to Mercury by sign and triplicity.. where as Mercury ruler of 10th is completely oblivious of me but moon hooks to mercury. that is a yes. Even though MH degree is 1 virgo meaning that it is something new.. moon will oppose mars at the end it will not be all games as i would imagine sitting around and screwing with the controls.. saturn on MH or it will not turn to be a profession.
2. same situation plugging in a modern rulers... Uranus/neptune/pluto in 10th house are NEWCOMERS in the field. Guess what..
Pluto/Neptune/Uranus are not in 10th house!
in the sound chart .. cause i have messed with sound for a year in school.. i understand it so it will not be entirely brand new..
does this explain a bit?
Cheers
T
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archergirl
Well-known member
And let's just stick to the astrology, yes? Perhaps the best thing to do is explain both the modern and traditional viewpoints and let people make up their own minds. I'm more of a traditionalist, myself, and so usually discount modern planets in horary, but they do work, sometimes, in certain places (as Tik said, on the angles. They work like fixed stars here).
It really is a preference, and respectful disagreement is fine.
No bickering allowed, however, either on the forum, or privately. That goes for everyone.
AG
It really is a preference, and respectful disagreement is fine.
No bickering allowed, however, either on the forum, or privately. That goes for everyone.
AG