Should we buy the condo for daughter?

I wasn't sure where to put this question. Its a simple question yet has myriad implications for either yes or no.


This daughter has been a worry for many years(15 yrs), with her poor choice of b.f. Finally, "he left", but only moved a short way away, and she likely still loves him enough to have him involved in her life via a trust she had made that included him (for life I'm presuming)



According to her parents (us) we've always seen him as a gigolo type of guy. She always paid his bills, his car insurance, his everything, years of schooling, etc.



Now that he is gone., (not really gone), she finds the house she bought with her own money but put him on the deed too; to be far too much work and care since it's just her and her pets.



I agree with that, because when you buy a house, you are buying a job in maintenance.



She called her dad and told him her plans since just returning last week from a month in Greece. We knew she was thinking of scaling back, because she told us before she left for this 1st ever vacation she took overseas, to clear her head. She's "between jobs", and thought they all were promising at one time which proved to be otherwise. Nothing worked out much for her.


NOW she wants to find a way to retire early (she's 47) and is just suffering from burn-out. Capricorn Sun Taurus Moon, Scorpio Rising, she's a workhorse, but I was glad to find out she saved even while supporting both of them for 15 yrs, and feels she can make it on her own without a "job" any longer. Real Estate markets are very hot now, and she "feels" that if she bought a condo it might be possible she could pay cash with the proceeds she gains from this home she bought for THEM (but there is no them now)



Question: Should we get involved? Our inner guidance is saying "no", but we've never said no to any of our daughters who needed financial help before.
The only "fly in the ointment", is "HIM", his parents taught him how to steal houses from others. Even his own brother said, "watch, he'll get that house away from her", years ago, and sure enough, I find out now, it's in TRUST for both of them.


If there was no "him", I'd buy the condo for her in a heartbeat, as we aren't making any money on our money anyway. We are too old for stocks and we arent' in the market. But I would be able to swing the condo (which isn't on the market) and needs a lot of work to bring it up to par. Carpeting, Painting, etc. That isn't a big deal, as again, "she is a workhorse".



My heart tells me YES, my head tells me NO.


What do you all see?

The Chart - is on the Day of Mars - the Hour of Jupiter

Jupiter in the 12th is also me I'm thinking, in a quandary and worried about this daughter. She had essentially cut off the weekly calls and often visits during these 15 yrs "with Him".....We tried to be cordial to him, but he always wanted more then we had to offer him.



The 22nd degree of Jupiter is considered a critical degree of all signs. A self-undoing? degree.


Part of Fortune in the 12th is considered Part of misfortune according to some like Barbara Watters or other older horary astrologers as I vaguely recall.



Mercury rules the house as it rules the 7th house too.



Is this my daughter, since the Moon rules the 5th?

leomoon, I have a question. Can you tell us more about this trust? What exactly is in it? Just the house or is there more? Who administers it, what are the circumstances of it? Is it the reason you are considering buying the condo outright for your daughter? Or is there the possibility that the old house can be sold and a portion of the proceeds go to the purchase?

Tamara

tsmall said:

leomoon, I have a question. Can you tell us more about this trust? What exactly is in it? Just the house or is there more? Who administers it, what are the circumstances of it? Is it the reason you are considering buying the condo outright for your daughter? Or is there the possibility that the old house can be sold and a portion of the proceeds go to the purchase?

Tamara

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We are totally (as parents) in the dark about that trust. So that is a big question, although she is the Trustee after we die for our Revocable living trust, I don't know what kind she had created. . so I'd just be guessing to say, she got the idea from us.



She just said, "I've crunched all the figures, and can do this"....Take the net gain from the current house and buy a condo with a view, and lots of other amenities but of course there is the monthly HOA charge depending on the size. It does come with a one car garage.


I know it would be really good for her, a woman alone with no help for maintenance. He is a taker, never even got up off our couch to help her wash her car or to take in her recyclables she use to do delivering them to our can. She was big on that. But since she did it ALL all those 15 yrs, she is very tired. As she reminded us, she started to work at age 14 (in a Retirement home in what was then a new thing, dining rooms that hired school kids part time) From there, she went to Wells Fargo (part time work), until she graduated then put herself through community college, and eventually her Master's Degree all on her own.


We were always proud of her, and still are, but still not trusting anymore because of that 15 yr control by another she was under. Believe me when I say I'm not exaggerating either, he is the epitome of the word "sloth".



Sorry I've made this thread into a "HIM" ..ugh!


We looked online because all deeds in Phoenix are public - and saw the two names, "in Trust". That's all it said. He picked her up at the airport from Greece and told her he'd sign anything she needed to be signed. I think he must be living with another woman now.
I doubt sincerely, she'll insist on dissolving the Trust, but she did tell her father the lawyer she hired made sure that everything she owned (in a community prop. state) stays separate and is her's. He'll likely inherit her insurance policies through the State (from when she worked for the State and the city) any pension , or IRA.





My husband still doesn't trust him, and neither do I with good reason.



Daughter has Uranus in the 12th, and Neptune in the 2nd hs. with an 8th house Saturn 0Cancer deg.

So, just to clarify, is she paying for the condo or are you??

(I am dusting off my books lol. Been feeling a bit rusty.)

There is an awful lot of backstory and clutter here, which while important is making the actual question cloudy. From what I am reading, your question is "should we buy the condo for our daughter?" However, it sounds as if DD thinks she is buying it for herself?? Do I have that right? I don't think I do.

Sorry for the clutter. The drama of my life is cluttered.
She called her dad after not hearing for a week since returning; and asked, "can you front me $(XXX,XXX) for this condo." so I don't have a mortgage (she isn't planning on working again unless she HAS to) - But first she explained herself and her dream for the future.

She would pay us back after the house is sold.

We did this for her when we moved to Phoenix in the late 90s and let her pay us instead of the bank. I think she has that in mind again, although now we are 74 and cannot make up any losses. She's trustworthy, thats not the problem.

The "shadow" of him near any of it is the problem.

leomoon said:

Sorry for the clutter. The drama of my life is cluttered.
She called her dad after not hearing for a week since returning; and asked, "can you front me $(nearly 300,000) for this condo." so I don't have a mortgage (she isn't planning on working again unless she HAS to) - But first she explained herself and her dream for the future.



She would pay us back after the house is sold.



We did this for her when we moved to Phoenix and let her pay us instead of the bank. I think she has that in mind again, although now we are 74 and cannot make up any losses. She's trustworthy, thats not the problem.


The "shadow" of him near any of it is the problem.

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Gotcha! I may not have an answer tonight lol. Definately by tomorrow.

*edit to add, non astrologically, it would probably be a good idea to ask her for a copy of the trust she has with him. So that you, and possibly a lawyer, can review it.*

Did they break up 6 months or so ago?

I think it's been at least 18 months he moved out. But she said, he still comes over and has a key. Thats how long ago its been since we visited on Christmas.
My husband says, "Christmas 2 years ago" is his best recollection.

passiflora said:

It sounds like the chart is about him too. POF conjunct Saturn ruler of 7th from the 5th, sitting in her 8th and your 12th, and squaring Sun ruler of her 2nd. Yuck!

I too would want to know a lot more about the trust and, if it would make you comfortable, how to put guardrails around this loan / money so it does not now or ever go to him.

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Oh passiflora, if you had not mentioned "HIM" in the chart, I likely would have never thought to look for him, but you are correct of course, he looms like a scar after tearing off a scab prematurely. .... After we lost the 1st daughter, I tended to walk on nails around her and him, never wanting to say the wrong thing to upset her. We all have some karma to meet, and mine includes him.

As this is a "learning/teaching forum" I am going to start with the technique I used by Lilly, interpreted into modern English. (Note to add, this is the framework for judging the chart, not the be-all end all of everything that is going on. Clearly it's not a cut and dried chart, which is why the back story is so important!)

tsmall interpretation of Lilly: If it be good to hire or take the Farm, House or Land Desired An Introduction to Astrology. The Resolution of all manner of Questions and Demands

The Significators: Give L1 to the querent. Give L7 to the seller. Give L10 to the "profit/benefit" of the purchase of the land/house. In this case, as it involves the DD, give L5 to her, give L11 to he whom we hate lol. Additionally, give L8 to the current house owned by DD (this chart is shaping up!)

To summarize Lilly...

1) L4 and any planets in 4 will show the end of the matter, if purchased or not. (***this is where the misconception about the 4th showing the end of the matter in ANY horary question comes from, because Lilly leads with this. I promise you, he is only talking about matters of purchasing property, not EVERY hoarary question!)

2) If L1 is in the 1st, or is sextile or trine the ASC by sign, better by degree and moiety of orb then yes.

3) If a benefic (Venus, Jupiter, or a planet made benefic) are in the 1st and not impeded then yes.

4) If PoF is in 1st and not impeded then yes

5) If a malefic is in 1st and the querent has already bought the property then...so sorry for your luck.

6) If a malefic is in 1st and the querent hasn't already bought it, s(he) doesn't want it or will get rid of it asap if purchased.

7) If L7 is in 7th or in aspect by sextile or trine, or there is a benefic in 7th, the querent will get the property for the asking price but the seller will profit.

8) If a malefic is in 7th and isn't L7 (or a significator of the question) be cautious about the terms--the querent is likely to get skrewd.

9) If a benefic is in the 10th, or in aspect to the 10th, the parties may dicker about terms but will proceed with the sale and be happy.

10) If a malefic is in the 10th, or in aspect by opposition or square, no sale will happen, the argument will be about the condition of the property or the conditions of the terms of sale.

11) As to the result, the 4th house signifies the resolution. If there is a benefic or L4 in the 4th, or in aspect by sextile or trine, all partners will be pleased. If a malefic is in 4th no one will be happy.

My interpretation tomorrow, as it's late here and I have to get up early. But my judgement is yes, you should buy the codo.

Tamara

Tamara:


Your work IS a work of Art. It makes me want to read more of Lily, and no doubt I will if you continue on horary threads.


REF: Mercury(dghtr) is Trine to Jupiter (me, the querent), and I thought this might have suggested my heart is in the right place for this daughter, but I don't think she knows this of us. She's been "brainwashed" over 15yrs to think otherwise at times.

So, it appears using Lily's 7th trine to a benefic in the 12th? there may be a move in store for her? (at first glance that is) perhaps the 12th negates this one as an underperforming house?



7) If L7 is in 7th or in aspect by sextile or trine, or there is a benefic in 7th, the querent will get the property for the asking price but the seller will profit.


8) If a malefic is in 7th and isn't L7 (or a significator of the question) be cautious about the terms--the querent is likely to get skrewd.



(No malefics in 7th that I can tell)



This one in particular sounds like it's a "go" for her - She's willing to take the under maintained property "as is" ....Venus in the 10th:

REF: 9) If a benefic is in the 10th, or in aspect to the 10th, the parties may dicker about terms but will proceed with the sale and be happy.


THIS list written up by Lily is a real treasure, so thanks wholeheartedly for writing it out for us.

I'm wondering too, if this means, (the 4th the 10th, all very important for house purchases or deals made) that WE aren't the ones who will actually buy it, but SHE may work it out and we come "after the fact" with a gift of far less money outlaid (there are always extras to pay and come up with....say like $10,000 as a gift?.......would be more ideal.


I like that Jupiter and Mercury are Trine, that makes me feel better because it does signify the two parties.


And of course I like the 10th having a benefic, i.e. Venus


I don't "picture" however, taking that kind of money and turning it over in a check for her to do as she pleases, i.e.(with him lurking)

passiflora said:

Totally understandable feelings. Maybe you can use your desire to do your own estate planning as an intro to the necessary conversations.

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Doubtful passiflora. We don't communicate too easily any longer, its been too many years of not doing so. She last told her dad when he asked a question of her as she visited once; "Did you vote by mail?" prior to the Presidential Race last Nov.

Her answer to him? "Dad, you are getting far too personal"


They BOTH have Scorpio Rising.


Typing this last exchange out it seems like it must be a joke, but it wasn't. This actually is what she said to her once very close to him, dad. Our so-called estate is negligible really, not a whole lot, but she can have it all once we are done and gone.

Another decade or so........its all her's. (that is from an old line in a joke she'd laugh if I told her)
Fred Sanford on "Sanford and Sons", in the 1980s - use to tell his son, "One day, this will ALL be yours"......(the junk yard)



Here is an excerpt -



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9xERsfOPGs

I was under the impression, 7th lord was her, (buyer in actuality), plus the fact that the Moon represents the actual bargaining or action of the chart?



Talk with you tomorrow, thanks very much Tamara, its been invaluable learning tonight. I'll re-read Lily tomorrow, perhaps I'm just tired too.


Debra

Leomoon, my response is going to be more Suzie Orman than William Lillie, but without needing you to respond with personal information:

1. It's good advice for older parents not to make an expensive purchase for an adult child if it would deeply affect the parents' own retirement funding. We all hope to avoid the need for nursing homes and in-home caregivers, but they can be hideously expensive if and when needed. So please forecast not only what you can afford now, but what will likely be your expenses late in life and whether those would be covered, as well.

[You and your husband's joint assets are an 8th house matter. Mars is robust, but not a lot of essential dignity otherwise with the 8th house planets. Mars applies to a square with a 12th house Saturn. You are ruled by Jupiter; your husband by that non-dignified 8th house Mercury.]

2. If a mortgage would be needed on a new condo, a lender would not look favorably on your daughter effectively being unemployed-- unless she has build up the resources to cover it or you-all have the possibility to purchase it outright.

3. Would you want some kind of surety from your daughter, that your money would be well spent? Do you want to be on the deed? Split profits if she sells it? Her money management looks so/so, in the 2nd from the 5th or radix 6th house. The sun's next aspect is a square to Jupiter in the 12th house. The 8th is also her turned 4th house of "home." What happens if for any reason she doesn't repay your husband for the loan? Are you OK with a write-off?

4. This 12th house thing makes me wonder if you are now apprised of all of the relevant information.

5. I wouldn't buy any real estate without a contractor's or building inspector's report, plus a long-ish list of items that a decent realtor or real-estate website would advise you to look out for. It's one thing if the unit just needs a new coat of paint, but another if it needs extensive renos on features (like wiring and plumbing) that do not initially meet the eye. These can add significantly to the cost of any type of new home.

Forgive me if you know this already, but one of you needs to determine whether the condo is owned by the developer or is freehold (a strata) governed by the homeowner's association. Look at the last few years of the latter's AGM minutes. Find out the balance on the reserve fund held to pay for common property repairs, as to whether it's sufficient.
https://www.point2homes.com/news/canada-real-estate/14-questions-to-ask-before-buying-a-condo.html

Good luck with this, Leomoon-- and please let us know what happens. That moon trine Jupiter looks like a reconciliation with your daughter to me.

Thanks to everyone! Last night, my husband called her and told her, we'd help in whatever way we could. She already put in a contract for "As Is", with a contingency on selling her house first. She did this yesterday sometime.


We'll see from there how it goes for her.



I'll let you all know....when I know.



p.s. I don't blame her having worked since age 14 and now age 47 for wanting a long break from that rat race. She takes after her father (Scorpio Rising?) in that both of them like "minimalist living".



I don't. I'm always looking for more room., but they are definitely that way. She found out this summer, in between jobs, that she loves traveling overseas. Especially in Greece. She wants to do this again.

We hope and wish the best for her and will be here, to back her up.

After giving it considerable thought, I decided the best aproach is the simplest. Disregarding the situation with the other house and the daughter/boyfriend for a moment, the real question here is "should we buy the condo?" This gives us Jupiter for leomoon and her husband, Mercury as both the seller and the new condo.

9) If a benefic is in the 10th, or in aspect to the 10th, the parties may dicker about terms but will proceed with the sale and be happy.

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Here we do have a benefic, Venus, in the 10th. The Moon (DD) applies to you by trine, then applies to a conjunction with Mercury (the seller and the condo.) With Venus beaming from above that part seems straightforward and is why last night I said I was getting a "yes."

No to address concerns about the ex. She/Moon is separating from a trine with Saturn, his significator. Considering the weight of these two planets (note, Saturn/Moon relationships are a real drag in the literal sense) this indicates she is moving on from someone who has been holding her down. Moon wants to go, Saturn has barely moved from his 2nd station. Even her money, signified by the Sun here, is moving on/separating from a square that happened when Saturn was still retrograde, so seems Sun was forced (square) to give to Saturn, and with PoF conjunct he seems to have made out.

I was initially concerned about that applying Mars Saturn square, as Mars rules the 2nd hous of your money...however, Mars also rules the 9th of lawyers/legal advice, and Mars is stronger in this square. There may be some pushback from the ex, but Mars wins this argument.

All that said, the condo is a good investment. My suggestion is to purchase it in your name, then transfer the deed to her when she sells the other house.

Tamara