wondering if this is indeed my birth time- why i can't relate to my rising

BAYANARIZASEVIYORUM

Active member
Hi i've posted here before some weeks ago. Hope everyone is doing fine! Just wanted to discuss why i can't relate to the optimism, energy & physical appearance of sag rising. Now, i feel more scorpio like- & i'm sure it's because of the scorpio 12th stellium. But why i don't relate to my ascendant. I don't look horse like, curvy hips/figure & tall. I'm 5'4 for a woman. I'm not lean/skinny. I've always been healthy looking & gain wait very easily.The only thing i have going for sagittarius rising is fat on my thighs. Also, i would love to travel. I'm not sure whether my birth time is wrong & i'm a scorpio rising?? But even then, while i have thick dark hair, I don't have intense gazing eyes Or square face. I have oval face shape. My more introverted/sad personality when people first meet me has more to do with my scorpio 12th. Yet with my sag rising, ruler jupiter 11th & jupiter conj sun should give me a lot of those sagg like qualities. But i don't have it. I'm wondering whether my birth time is wrong. Here is my chart.

https://imgur.com/a/RA5hwn4
 
Last edited:

Osamenor

Staff member
Where did you get your birth information? The time is much less likely to be wrong if it comes from a birth certificate or hospital record than if it's just based on your mother's memory.

Assuming it comes from a written record, it may be rounded. Birth times right on the quarter, half, or full hour usually are. However, a birth time on the quarter hour wouldn't be rounded by more than ten minutes, if that. That's not enough to change the rising sign unless the ascendant is right at the beginning or end of its sign. Yours is far enough into Sagittarius that a rounded birth time wouldn't change its sign.

Rising sign plays a much smaller part in physical appearance than people tend to think. According to astrologer Judith Hill, who wrote a book on it, the strongest influence on physical appearance comes from the ascendant's ruler--its sign placement plus any planets conjunct or in aspect to it--followed by (I may or may not be remembering the order completely accurately) planets in the first house, if any (does not apply to you), Moon (especially in females' birth charts), rising sign itself, and Sun sign. Libra, Pisces, and Scorpio send some different messages from Sagittarius.

While the ascendant does show up in your personality, it's heavily influenced by the rest of the chart. A lot of Scorpio, plus that Pisces and Libra, has to show through that Sagittarius veneer. That would make for a much more serious cast than pure Sagittarius would provide. Not only that, your chart is extremely low in fire (nothing in a fire sign but your ascendant and north node) and in mutable sign placements. If you had more fire and/or mutable energy in your chart, your personality would have a more Sagittarian vibe even if you didn't have anything but your ascendant in Sagittarius.

As it is, you have a dash of Sagittarius in you, but only that. There's a huge difference in flavor between a dish with lots of chilis in it and a dish with just a dash of chili powder. The second won't taste very spicy, but the spice is still there. It's like that with Sagittarius in your chart.

As for not relating to Sagittarian optimism, our perceptions are most strongly influenced by Mercury, the planet of perception. Yours is not only in deep thinking Scorpio, it's squared by Saturn. Of course you don't see things in such an optimistic way.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hi i've posted here before some weeks ago. Hope everyone is doing fine! Just wanted to discuss why i can't relate to the optimism, energy & physical appearance of sag rising. Now, i feel more scorpio like- & i'm sure it's because of the scorpio 12th stellium. But why i don't relate to my ascendant. I don't look horse like, curvy hips/figure & tall. I'm 5'4 for a woman. I'm not lean/skinny. I've always been healthy looking & gain wait very easily.The only thing i have going for sagittarius rising is fat on my thighs. Also, i would love to travel. I'm not sure whether my birth time is wrong & i'm a scorpio rising?? But even then, while i have thick dark hair, I don't have intense gazing eyes Or square face. I have oval face shape. My more introverted/sad personality when people first meet me has more to do with my scorpio 12th. Yet with my sag rising, ruler jupiter 11th & jupiter conj sun should give me a lot of those sagg like qualities. But i don't have it. I'm wondering whether my birth time is wrong. Here is my chart.

https://imgur.com/a/RA5hwn4
FREE RECTIFICATION TIPS :smile:

at
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51626&highlight=RECTIFICATION

this is a thread for anyone interested in very basic chart rectification.

BASIC STEPS
List major life events such as academic rewards, degree, diplomas, exams passed, operations, hospital admissions of any kind, accidents, relocation to a new home, relocation abroad, marriages, divorces, births, deaths, starting first job, leaving old job, starting new job, anything important.

When looking back at transits for major events in life, as well as noting all aspects from transiting planets to the angles, remember to note in particular aspects from all the rulers of the ASC/MC/IC/DESC to other planets as well as to the angles themselves

If you focus on the seven visible planets then you'll find that you have more than enough aspects to cope with - especially if you have many exact dates of events to check!




Btw exclude dates that are "give or take a couple of weeks" as being totally too inaccurate!


Specific dates for major events means the actual exact day as well as the precise time of the occurrence

- e.g. precise date AND time of giving birth... precise date and time of
when your wife/partner/girlfriend gave birth to your child... precise date and time of being wheeled into the operating theater to have appendix removed... precise date and time of any accidents involving broken bones... precise date and time of first day at work... precise date and time of graduation award... precise date and time of car crashes... precise date and time of relocating to new home... precise date of when decree nisi granted... precise date of any relocation that resulted... precise date and time on official letter from hospital/medics giving diagnosis.... and/or precise date and time of appointment with doc/medic who delivered the news... precise date and time of graduation day...



(a) Health involves the physical body, hence examine transits to the ascendant, transits to the ascendant ruler and transits by the ascendant ruler to the angles/other planets on the specific day of any health issues


(b) divorce AND marriage BOTH involve transits to the Descendant, transits to the descendant ruler, and transits by the descendant ruler to the angles/other planets on the specific day of the decree nisi




(c) divorce AND marriage BOTH involve MC as well. So examine transits to MC and to MC ruler, as well as transits by MC ruler to any of the angles by conjunction, trine, square and/or opposition

Good idea to focus on the following basics when analyzing your data relating to specific dates and times of events:

(a) any planets on the angles, i.e. any planet conjunct, trine, square or opposing any angle.


(b) any ruler of any one of the four angles on any one of the angles. i.e. any ruling planet of any one of the four angles that is conjunct, trine, square or opposing any angle


No harm in learning basic rectification, don't be put off by thinking it is 'too difficult/complicated/puzzling' - it is an interesting and rewarding exercise.


Have fun! What you are sleuthing for are
:

(a)
transiting planets close to or at the degree of your ascendant/descendant for the given time of birth

(b)
transiting planets close to or at the degree of your MC/IC for the given time of birth

as you continue to focus on the seven visible planets and the degrees they occupy on the specific dates and times you have chosen - to
note in particular, IF on the same day a planet aspects by conjunction, opposition, square, sextile, trine:

(1) the approximate degree you currently have for the Ascendant


while
another planet on the same day aspects by conjunction, opposition, square, sextile, trine:

(2) the approximate degree you currently have for the MC


It is common knowledge that traditional ancient astrology planet domiciles for each ascendant are as follows:


Aries Ascendant = Mars

Taurus Ascendant = Venus
Gemini Ascendant = Mercury
Cancer Ascendant = Moon
Leo Ascendant = Sun
Virgo Ascendant = Mercury
Libra Ascendant = Venus
Scorpio Ascendant = Mars
Sagittarius Ascendant = Jupiter
Capricorn Ascendant = Saturn
Aquarius Ascendant = Saturn
Pisces Ascendant = Jupiter




modernist outers

were simply not visible

to ancient astrologers

who nevertheless successfully rectified charts


Rectification is an ancient technique at least two thousand years old
long before Outers could be observed with the aid of powerful telescopes.

An example of an ancient/traditional rectification technique is the “Animodar” method of rectification which is explained at this link
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/animodar.html


Animodar is just one rectification technique of which there are many... These are just the basics... Good idea to assess/experiment with each method before drawing any firm conclusions.
Each astrologer has their own ideas as to which method is preferable

examine/experiment with all methods to find the method you prefer :smile:
 

BAYANARIZASEVIYORUM

Active member
Where did you get your birth information? The time is much less likely to be wrong if it comes from a birth certificate or hospital record than if it's just based on your mother's memory.

Assuming it comes from a written record, it may be rounded. Birth times right on the quarter, half, or full hour usually are. Howerver, a birth time on the quarter hou wouldn't be rounded by more than ten minutes, if that. That's not enough to change the rising sign unless the ascendant is right at the beginning or end of its sign. Yours is far enough into Sagittarius that a rounded birth time wouldn't change its sign.

Rising sign plays a much smaller part in physical appearance than people tend to think. According to astrologer Judith Hill, who wrote a book on it, the strongest influence on physical appearance comes from the ascendant's ruler--its sign placement plus any planets conjunct or in aspect to it--followed by (I may or may not be remembering the order completely accurately) planets in the first house, if any (does not apply to you), Moon (especially in females' birth charts), rising sign itself, and Sun sign. Libra, Pisces, and Scorpio send some different messages from Sagittarius.

While the ascendant does show up in your personality, it's heavily influenced by the rest of the chart. A lot of Scorpio, plus that Pisces and Libra, has to show through that Sagittarius veneer. That would make for a much more serious cast than pure Sagittarius would provide. Not only that, your chart is extremely low in fire (nothing in a fire sign but your ascendant and north node) and in mutable sign placements. If you had more fire and/or mutable energy in your chart, your personality would have a more Sagittarian vibe even if you didn't have anything but your ascendant in Sagittarius.

As it is, you have a dash of Sagittarius in you, but only that. There's a huge difference in flavor between a dish with lots of chilis in it and a dish with just a dash of chili powder. The second won't taste very spicy, but the spice is still there. It's like that with Sagittarius in your chart.

As for not relating to Sagittarian optimism, our perceptions are most strongly influenced by Mercury, the planet of perception. Yours is not only in deep thinking Scorpio, it's squared by Saturn. Of course you don't see things in such an optimistic way.

Hi my birth time is written by my grandfather, who later came at the hospital. He is no more.

It's not just the rising though. I have jupiter(asc ruler) in libra in 11th, Jupiter conj sun in 11th & Sag Asc conjunct Sag N. Node. This should make me taller & other sagg vibes.
Anyway i tried to check my other times assuming my birth time was wrong.
So if my rising was scorpio, my sun would be scorpio 12th. It also makes my NN in sagittarius 1st house.
Yes i have low fire & low earth too. And it has cost my money making abilities.
The reasons why i was asking this was because do you think my chart shows ability to read/ write foreign languages if i give shot? I guess i'm only fit for teaching coz it makes me feel comfortable where i'm prepared & there's no need to be spontaneous, I would love to give service. I tried to listen/read some french, spanish & it's tough. And true to my nature, i give up fairly easily & then go back thinking of money. But i have decided on teaching as i seem incapable of being in corporate. But i don't have a subject. Learning a lot of languages at the same time will give my sadness & fantasy prone *** lots of money which i otherwise can't earn. I know my chart isn't all that good for languages but i keep getting discouraged even when i try. How can i lot of money via teaching?
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Hi my birth time is written by my grandfather, who later came at the hospital. He is no more.
Do you have your birth certificate? Does it give a birth time?

If you haven't seen your birth certificate, the first step is to get it. Birth certificates don't always give exact times, sometimes they're rounded, and in some cases time of birth isn't on the birth certificate at all, but if you're questioning your birth time, that's always a crucial step.

It's not just the rising though. I have jupiter(asc ruler) in libra in 11th, Jupiter conj sun in 11th & Sag Asc conjunct Sag N. Node. This should make me taller & other sagg vibes.
Not necessarily.

Yes i have low fire & low earth too. And it has cost my money making abilities.
People with high fire and earth don't always have good money making abilities either. For money, look to the second house of your chart. If your birth time is correct, your second house cusp is in Capricorn. That right there suggests a slow, steady, penny pinching approach to making money. It doesn't come easily and in large amounts, you have to work for it and build it up over time, and your approach to money management is likely to be very frugal.

With that kind of approach, you can end up with good money later in life, because you've managed it well, but you don't see any great influx of cash.

However, you have Neptune and Uranus in the second house. That could throw a wrench in your saving ability. Uranus wants to do things impulsively and immediately. Neptune is beyond material concerns. Both planets together will throw caution to the wind, even in frugal, cautious Capricorn. So, you might find yourself drawn to promises of rapid wealth (possibly empty ones) and/or to spending more than you really have.

The reasons why i was asking this was because do you think my chart shows ability to read/ write foreign languages if i give shot? I guess i'm only fit for teaching coz it makes me feel comfortable where i'm prepared & there's no need to be spontaneous, I would love to give service. I tried to listen/read some french, spanish & it's tough.

Language ability correlates with Mercury. Mercury in the twelfth does suggest foreign languages. But gifts of the twelfth house are gifts you really have to dig for. They may be more accessible if they come through a twelfth house planet that's trine or sextile (but especially trine) a planet in a more accessible house. Your Mercury is trine your Moon in the fourth. So, access that gift through your Moon.

Does anyone in your family speak a foreign language? Do you have an ancestral language that none of your currently living relatives speak? Fourth house and Moon suggest starting there, if you want to pursue languages. But it takes a Piscean approach. Pisces is intuitive, non-linear, non-rational.

Have you ever tried learning a language by immersing yourself in it? Or have you only tried to learn in the classroom? I don't think the classroom method would work well for you. What you need is immersion. Twelfth house Mercury also speaks to that: twelfth house is the house of exile. If you're learning another language in a twelfth house way, you're learning it because you find yourself in a country where nobody speaks your language, so you have no choice.

You could put yourself in that situation by choosing to go to a country where you have to speak the language. And then, focus on learning the spoken language. Reading and writing is secondary.

Mercury square Saturn may make your language learning process slower, but it can be done. It just requires work. And going about it in the right way for you.

How can i lot of money via teaching?

You can't necessarily make a lot of money through anything. But one gift of that second house you have is an ability to recognize that there are things more important than money. Sure, you need enough to live, and you could make that, but getting rich isn't the answer.

Your tenth house is ruled by Mercury. That suggests a communications-focused career. Teaching is that. So you don't have a bad chart for a teacher. Not at all.

In fact, if you struggle with the very thing you want to teach, that's a qualification right there. Ever heard the saying, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach"?
 

BAYANARIZASEVIYORUM

Active member
Do you have your birth certificate? Does it give a birth time?

If you haven't seen your birth certificate, the first step is to get it. Birth certificates don't always give exact times, sometimes they're rounded, and in some cases time of birth isn't on the birth certificate at all, but if you're questioning your birth time, that's always a crucial step.

Not necessarily.

People with high fire and earth don't always have good money making abilities either. For money, look to the second house of your chart. If your birth time is correct, your second house cusp is in Capricorn. That right there suggests a slow, steady, penny pinching approach to making money. It doesn't come easily and in large amounts, you have to work for it and build it up over time, and your approach to money management is likely to be very frugal.

With that kind of approach, you can end up with good money later in life, because you've managed it well, but you don't see any great influx of cash.

However, you have Neptune and Uranus in the second house. That could throw a wrench in your saving ability. Uranus wants to do things impulsively and immediately. Neptune is beyond material concerns. Both planets together will throw caution to the wind, even in frugal, cautious Capricorn. So, you might find yourself drawn to promises of rapid wealth (possibly empty ones) and/or to spending more than you really have.



Language ability correlates with Mercury. Mercury in the twelfth does suggest foreign languages. But gifts of the twelfth house are gifts you really have to dig for. They may be more accessible if they come through a twelfth house planet that's trine or sextile (but especially trine) a planet in a more accessible house. Your Mercury is trine your Moon in the fourth. So, access that gift through your Moon.

Does anyone in your family speak a foreign language? Do you have an ancestral language that none of your currently living relatives speak? Fourth house and Moon suggest starting there, if you want to pursue languages. But it takes a Piscean approach. Pisces is intuitive, non-linear, non-rational.

Have you ever tried learning a language by immersing yourself in it? Or have you only tried to learn in the classroom? I don't think the classroom method would work well for you. What you need is immersion. Twelfth house Mercury also speaks to that: twelfth house is the house of exile. If you're learning another language in a twelfth house way, you're learning it because you find yourself in a country where nobody speaks your language, so you have no choice.

You could put yourself in that situation by choosing to go to a country where you have to speak the language. And then, focus on learning the spoken language. Reading and writing is secondary.

Mercury square Saturn may make your language learning process slower, but it can be done. It just requires work. And going about it in the right way for you.



You can't necessarily make a lot of money through anything. But one gift of that second house you have is an ability to recognize that there are things more important than money. Sure, you need enough to live, and you could make that, but getting rich isn't the answer.

Your tenth house is ruled by Mercury. That suggests a communications-focused career. Teaching is that. So you don't have a bad chart for a teacher. Not at all.

In fact, if you struggle with the very thing you want to teach, that's a qualification right there. Ever heard the saying, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach"?

Hi there! My birth certificate has no birth time.

By saying I have low earth & fire, I only meant that i'm lacking energy/confidence/groundedness/Practicality/ knowledge on how to work( navigate practical world). No idea about Financial world.

12th house associated with foreign languages is new to me. In vedic astrology, 12th house maybe associated with foreign lands/settlements. In western, 9th house is associated with foreign languages/higher education, not 12th house. My 9th is empty & no planets in virgo/gemini.

I can't afford to move to other countries & it's impractical.

So, immersion ? You mean intuiton? Feelings? In short, I have to feel it in order to learn anything?(very scorpio like).

I feel like one should have passion/ tendencies to become good at anything. I feel like if i try to learn these languages with only money in mind, then i don't think i could. Coz one has to go to work to explore same thing over & over, & you need to have passion.
Can you please tell why the negative aspects of the 12th is immensely felt- mental health issues/ laziness etc. But in order to get anything out like writing etc we have to work extra hard. I have to work extra hard than an average person & yet i'm extra tired than average person.

It's easy to say not to care about money- when i'm near penniless & you feel isolated from a society.
 
Last edited:

Witchyone

Well-known member
I have noticed that the physical descriptions for rising signs are total bunk. More people do not match theirs than do match theirs. Someone will pop up and say that's because everyone has the wrong time of birth, but I say it's because your physical appearance is determined by genetics and environment, not what time of the day you were born.

I have noticed that rising has an effect on less physical things, though. For example, Cancer rising seems to soften the voice and mannerisms of any sun sign, making them gentler and more soothing than they might otherwise be.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
In western, 9th house is associated with foreign languages/higher education, not 12th house. My 9th is empty & no planets in virgo/gemini.
Actually, both the ninth and the twelfth houses are associated with foreignness/foreign travel/foreigners. They just cover different aspects of it.

In the ninth house, you find voluntary travel, done for the adventure of it, and the self expansive quality of being in a very different place having very different experiences. The twelfth house is the house of exile. It covers the exile aspect of foreign travel or relocation: having to go a long way away because things are bad at home. Or, simply, the emotional side of it. People who emigrate by choice, not under duress, are still exiled: they find themselves far from family, having to live in a new land as a foreigner, adapt to new customs. In that respect, the same trip or move can be described by both the ninth and the twelfth.

The twelfth house is also an ancestral house. Are you a descendant of immigrants, or of people who were otherwise displaced? Ethnic minorities? Religious minorities? When there's a lot in the twelfth house of a natal chart, that's a sign that the native is very strongly living out the trials of their ancestors, seeking resolution to what the ancestors could not resolve. That also speaks to exile experiences that happened to your ancestors, if not to you personally.

I can't afford to move to other countries & it's impractical.
What about work in another country? Or studying in another country, if you're a student? Or simply visiting one, and staying out of the touristy parts?

So, immersion ? You mean intuiton? Feelings? In short, I have to feel it in order to learn anything?(very scorpio like).
No, I mean immersion as in surrounding yourself with the language. Being where it will be spoken to you all the time, and you have to speak it to communicate anything to anyone.

The Pisces way of learning is by immersion.

Can you please tell why the negative aspects of the 12th is immensely felt- mental health issues/ laziness etc. But in order to get anything out like writing etc we have to work extra hard. I have to work extra hard than an average person & yet i'm extra tired than average person.
That's not a twelfth house thing. That's a twelfth house planets squared by Saturn thing. It's the Saturn square that makes it so hard, or at least makes you perceive it that way.

It's easy to say not to care about money- when i'm near penniless & you feel isolated from a society.
I don't mean that kind of not caring about money. I mean not caring about money once you have enough. When you don't have enough to meet your basic needs, of course you care about it, and you should. That's different from wanting more and more money when you already have enough.

You could make enough money by teaching. Just not more and more beyond that. Teaching isn't exactly known for making people rich, but it can provide a living.
 

BAYANARIZASEVIYORUM

Active member
Actually, both the ninth and the twelfth houses are associated with foreignness/foreign travel/foreigners. They just cover different aspects of it.

In the ninth house, you find voluntary travel, done for the adventure of it, and the self expansive quality of being in a very different place having very different experiences. The twelfth house is the house of exile. It covers the exile aspect of foreign travel or relocation: having to go a long way away because things are bad at home. Or, simply, the emotional side of it. People who emigrate by choice, not under duress, are still exiled: they find themselves far from family, having to live in a new land as a foreigner, adapt to new customs. In that respect, the same trip or move can be described by both the ninth and the twelfth.

The twelfth house is also an ancestral house. Are you a descendant of immigrants, or of people who were otherwise displaced? Ethnic minorities? Religious minorities? When there's a lot in the twelfth house of a natal chart, that's a sign that the native is very strongly living out the trials of their ancestors, seeking resolution to what the ancestors could not resolve. That also speaks to exile experiences that happened to your ancestors, if not to you personally.

What about work in another country? Or studying in another country, if you're a student? Or simply visiting one, and staying out of the touristy parts?

No, I mean immersion as in surrounding yourself with the language. Being where it will be spoken to you all the time, and you have to speak it to communicate anything to anyone.

The Pisces way of learning is by immersion.

That's not a twelfth house thing. That's a twelfth house planets squared by Saturn thing. It's the Saturn square that makes it so hard, or at least makes you perceive it that way.

I don't mean that kind of not caring about money. I mean not caring about money once you have enough. When you don't have enough to meet your basic needs, of course you care about it, and you should. That's different from wanting more and more money when you already have enough.

You could make enough money by teaching. Just not more and more beyond that. Teaching isn't exactly known for making people rich, but it can provide a living.

Yes i agree! The 9th house will give the desire to the learn the languages, which the 12th house won't.

I don't speak my mother tongue because my family shifted to different location. So, there's that.

Anyway, thank you!!
 

Osamenor

Staff member
I don't speak my mother tongue because my family shifted to different location. So, there's that.

Is there any possibility of you visiting the country your family came from?

That would follow your Moon very, very well. And could teach you the language.

It might even lead to opportunities you'd never dreamed of. It would certainly be following your chart, in a positive way.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Yes i agree! The 9th house will give the desire to the learn the languages, which the 12th house won't.

More to the point, in the twelfth house, you learn them out of necessity. I have a friend who's a great example of that: she has three planets, including her Sun and a cazimi, retrograde Mercury, in the twelfth house, and in Gemini, too, a very talky, linguistic sign. She isn't a chatterbox sort of Gemini at all... but she speaks five languages fluently. Mainly because her family emigrated when she was a teenager. She had to learn new languages then. She's good at languages, and likes learning them, but it took that necessity to get her on that track.

In that case, it wasn't her choice to emigrate, her parents made the decision (and they made that decision because things were not good at home). That's a thoroughly twelfth house experience.

If you don't have that twelfth house experience given to you, you can choose it. But it is a more immersive experience than the ninth house, and there's an aspect of not having it all under your control, once you're in that experience. Going to a foreign country and surrounding yourself with native speakers who don't have a common language with you would be that.
 
Top