How to circumvent the need for freedom when you need to commit?

Cypocryphy said:

Hey Katy! Wonderful post!


Yes!! This is what is absolutely necessary. It's the only way this type of relationship can work—most relationships, I think.

She's undeveloped, in a lot ways. And this really goes back to uranus:Asc) and [saturn:)], on her part. In the year 1987, there are a lot of people who have this situation of It's a problem, or can be, because that stabilizing factor that Saturn can often provide is missing, in some ways. It's disrupted. So this "generation" (for lack of a better word) will often find difficulty getting their lives in order, some more so than others. There might be other factors to compensate for this but the strength of Saturn is kind of lost.

This will be an interesting summer, I think. Some hard choices might have to be made. But we shall see. I might go into the read my chart thing again and see what people say about "compatibility" and "chemistry." But the charts tend to show possibilities and potential and actual life kind of shows "what is."

Anyway, thanks for the reply, Katy. Always appreciate your input

Click to expand...

So in 87 the Sat/Uranus conjunction was in Sag. That is a difficult placement for the Saturn to be in Sag while joined with Uranus. My son was born just a year later and has Sat/Uranus conjunct too. But it is in Cap so it is much easier on the Saturn. He married pretty young and bought a home and has a baby. Very Saturn oriented kid, compared to the friends of his born in 87. lol

one of his best friends, lived next door when they were growing up. He was born in 87, but was held back in kinder because he was 'immature.' And that became the running joke in his life because he had a problem with acting immature. Class clown, very funny, anything for a joke, with Sag rising and Uranus/Saturn in his first opposed his Gemini Moon.

He has traveled the world, had lots of fun times, many jobs, lots of girlfriends, many at the same time...

But at my son's wedding , our friend told me, when we were both drunk at the reception, that he wished he could learn how to settle down and commit. he wants to but says he always messes it up, almost 'accidentally on purpose.'

[ Our conversation ended on a bad note when he began flirting with my Gemini daughter, who he suddenly realized had grown up to be quite a beautiful girl.--I shut that down quickly...]


That Saturn/Uranus conjunction is a lot to handle, for the native and for others.

Does your girlfriend have her Venus in Pisces or in Virgo?

katydid said:

So in 87 the Sat/Uranus conjunction was in Sag. That is a difficult placement for the Saturn to be in Sag while joined with Uranus. My son was born just a year later and has Sat/Uranus conjunct too. But it is in Cap so it is much easier on the Saturn. He married pretty young and bought a home and has a baby. Very Saturn oriented kid, compared to the friends of his born in 87. lol

Click to expand...

Wow! That's a really nice share. Definitely exhibits the effect that dignity has.

one of his best friends, lived next door when they were growing up. He was born in 87, but was held back in kinder because he was 'immature.' And that became the running joke in his life because he had a problem with acting immature. Class clown, very funny, anything for a joke, with Sag rising and Uranus/Saturn in his first opposed his Gemini Moon.

Click to expand...

Holy cow . . . she's always asking me if she's coming off as "immature" with others or why do people think that she's immature. I mean—all the time.

He has traveled the world, had lots of fun times, many jobs, lots of girlfriends, many at the same time...

Click to expand...

. . . sounds like her, in a sense . . . .

But at my son's wedding , our friend told me, when we were both drunk at the reception, that he wished he could learn how to settle down and commit. he wants to but says he always messes it up, almost 'accidentally on purpose.'

Click to expand...

Yeah. It's on purpose. Make no mistake about it. He can't own up to his actions is what it sounds like.

[ Our conversation ended on a bad note when he began flirting with my Gemini daughter, who he suddenly realized had grown up to be quite a beautiful girl.--I shut that down quickly...]

Click to expand...

Yeah! Sounds like bad news for your daughter, for sure.

That Saturn/Uranus conjunction is a lot to handle, for the native and for others.

Click to expand...

As I am coming to find out. To be totally and bluntly honest—she needs therapy. She really does. It might just be too much for me. I'm starting to really think that. Getting tired of her antics. But when I do the same thing she freaks. It's totally a double-standard. It's absurd, to be honest.

Does your girlfriend have her Venus in Pisces or in Virgo?

Click to expand...

It's in Pisces, thank God. But how redeeming is that really? With Saturn and Uranus in opposition to the ascendant? I mean . . . I'm honestly starting to think that she's going to be like this forever . . . What do you think?

Cypocryphy said:

Wow! That's a really nice share. Definitely exhibits the effect that dignity has.



Holy cow . . . she's always asking me if she's coming off as "immature" with others or why do people think that she's immature. I mean—all the time.



. . . sounds like her, in a sense . . . .



Yeah. It's on purpose. Make no mistake about it. He can't own up to his actions is what it sounds like.



Yeah! Sounds like bad news for your daughter, for sure.




As I am coming to find out. To be totally and bluntly honest—she needs therapy. She really does. It might just be too much for me. I'm starting to really think that. Getting tired of her antics. But when I do the same thing she freaks. It's totally a double-standard. It's absurd, to be honest.



It's in Pisces, thank God. But how redeeming is that really? With Saturn and Uranus in opposition to the ascendant? I mean . . . I'm honestly starting to think that she's going to be like this forever . . . What do you think?

Click to expand...

So she has Gemini rising, Sat/Uranus opposed in Sag, and a T-square to venus, elevated in Pisces? LOL

I can see how you might be frustrated with her antics at times. Mutable T-squares are hard sometimes to deal with, especially for their friends and loved ones. They do have double standards and they can justify , rationalize their own behavior, but admonish you for the same exact thing.

They also blow things out of proportion and get very anxious about tiny things they see as personal slights done to them and yet can be in denial about major things they do and ignore them like the pink elephant in the room.

She is still pretty young and mutable energy is the first to change and progress. So she can if she wants to. But that might be the biggest problem. Does she want to make these changes? If she does ask if she is being immature then she does seem to recognize there are some issues, right?

It is just that Gemini/Sag/Pisces squares are so easily distracted and there is so much deflection going on.

I am a Scorpio with Taurus rising. My lovely daughter is a Gemini with Sag rising---you should hear us trying to hash out issues between us. LOL Luckily my Venus in Sag is exactly on her ASC.

katydid said:

So she has Gemini rising, Sat/Uranus opposed in Sag, and a T-square to venus, elevated in Pisces? LOL

I can see how you might be frustrated with her antics at times. Mutable T-squares are hard sometimes to deal with, especially for their friends and loved ones. They do have double standards and they can justify , rationalize their own behavior, but admonish you for the same exact thing.

They also blow things out of proportion and get very anxious about tiny things they see as personal slights done to them and yet can be in denial about major things they do and ignore them like the pink elephant in the room.

She is still pretty young and mutable energy is the first to change and progress. So she can if she wants to. But that might be the biggest problem. Does she want to make these changes? If she does ask if she is being immature then she does seem to recognize there are some issues, right?

It is just that Gemini/Sag/Pisces squares are so easily distracted and there is so much deflection going on.

I am a Scorpio with Taurus rising. My lovely daughter is a Gemini with Sag rising---you should hear us trying to hash out issues between us. LOL Luckily my Venus in Sag is exactly on her ASC.

Click to expand...

Thanks Katy! That's really nice insight. And you are absolutely correct!! Her sign is in Gemini. I goofed on the charts. I was rectifying it today, and her birth time is off by five to ten minutes. I think its about 9:20 am. I can confidently say that now that I've gotten to know her pretty well. That makes a big difference.

Cypocryphy said:

Yeah! Good point. My (partile) is basically the aspect that saves me from being a complete a-hole in a relationship. Otherwise, I don't think I'd have the ability for any kind of loyalty. I'm actually quite loyal but, at the same time, changeable. My is very strong saturn: as well) and that creates a vacillating situation, despite the influence of

I like to be kept on my toes, to a certain degree, but too much of that can wear thin, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, that's a good insight. I'm telling you, however, that her is a terrible configuration. I'm hoping that having dignified as it is will count for more than less.

Click to expand...

I took a look at your vedic chart and what you are saying does indeed make sense. However, in the vedic chart you are a Libra rising and I remember you didn't really like that. So I'll abstain from further comments.

muchacho said:

I took a look at your vedic chart and what you are saying does indeed make sense. However, in the vedic chart you are a Libra rising and I remember you didn't really like that. So I'll abstain from further comments.

Click to expand...

Ha! Yeah. At the time, perhaps . . . .

Am I a Libra rising? You know that I don't buy into the precession of the equinoxes—at this time. Why? Because I have seen nothing to convince me to do so. But that's just me, and I am always willing to be wrong. Absolutely.

I have a fondess for the zodiac sign Libra, definitely. However—however—I don't really see anything in my makeup that exhibits Libra-ness. I could be wrong, and often people, even in a whole lifetime, are unable to see themselves clearly, especially in some instances where, like in astrology, there are so many considerations.

But, I am certainly open to your insight. How do you think my having a Libra rising change the situation? Do you see it being a significant augmentation?

Cypocryphy said:

Ha! Yeah. At the time, perhaps . . . .

Am I a Libra rising? You know that I don't buy into the precession of the equinoxes—at this time. Why? Because I have seen nothing to convince me to do so. But that's just me, and I am always willing to be wrong. Absolutely.

I have a fondess for the zodiac sign Libra, definitely. However—however—I don't really see anything in my makeup that exhibits Libra-ness. I could be wrong, and often people, even in a whole lifetime, are unable to see themselves clearly, especially in some instances where, like in astrology, there are so many considerations.

But, I am certainly open to your insight. How do you think my having a Libra rising change the situation? Do you see it being a significant augmentation?

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. Analyzing one's own chart can be tricky.

Your 7th house is in Aries and you've got Jupiter (ruler of 3rd and 6th) and Ketu (south node) there, too. That's a very restless and freedom loving combination. The nodes usually add a bit of instability/surprise. Saturn with Moon and Mars (ruler of 7th and 3rd) in the 10th house aspects your 7th. So looking at the chart from this angle, the freedom loving part is more dominant.

In the Moon chart (taking Moon as ASC), your 7th house is in Capricorn, ruled by Saturn, located in the 1st house which means Saturn is aspecting your 7th again and also rules your 8th House which usually means trouble. So looking at the chart from this angle, the stability loving part is more dominant.

In the Navamsa (9th harmonic chart) your 7th is in Virgo with Saturn which rules the 11th and 12th, ruler of your 7th is Mercury which is retrograde and a little weak. Mercury also rules the 4th. Since Mercury is rather changeable and unpredictable, in this chart the stability part and freedom loving part are about equal.

Venus in the regular chart combust and in 8th as ruler of 8th and 1st, in the Moon chart in 11th as ruler of 11th and 4th and in the Navamsa in the 3rd as ruler of 3rd and 8th.

In vedic astrology, the 3rd, 6th, 8th and 12th house are troublesome houses. 8th is the worst, then 6th, 12th and 3rd.

So what we can see confirmed in all 3 charts is this 7th house connection to Saturn/Capricorn and the troublesome houses. Adding to that a combust Venus that is also partly connected to troublesome houses I think it makes sense that in terms of relationships you would experience delays and hurdles. We also have to factor in the weak Mercury. Mercury is the working mind, the decision making. A weak or afflicted Mercury could indicate overthinking.

The need for freedom isn't fully confirmed, however. But since the regular chart has the last word as a rule and since in the regular chart it indicates a love for freedom together with a need for stability which we also find confirmed in the other charts, it's a bit difficult to synthesize it after all. It's a bit of a split personality as you've described yourself already, hehe. But since your Moon is more on the stable side and your 7th only indicates a volatile/excitement side, I would read it like this: you may be interested in an exciting relationship but the relationship itself shouldn't be in doubt so that it won't cause you any headaches/heartaches. And since your 7th is in Aries, you may like someone with Aries rising, Aries Sun or Aries Moon as a partner.

(If you want to recalculate it and look for yourself, use sidereal Yukteswar and whole sign houses)