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Mundane Astrology Discuss the astrology of towns, cities, states, provinces, countries, empires, and the world in general.


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  #1  
Unread 11-16-2012, 12:16 AM
Neptune Rising Neptune Rising is offline
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War in Israel / Gaza

Its awful news, there seems to be a war in the making.

I believe it started this time from Israel assassinating Hammas guy Ahmed Jabari (wiki) apparently on the 14th November. So many things happening around this solar eclipse in Scorpio, this and the European-wide protests.

Now 30,000 reserve troops are being rallied in Israel. I can't find news stories of what is happening in Gaza re troops except for information of the civilians being killed.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AD0WP20121115

Tried to get an unbiased news story, though so much propaganda going around now in the internet. Really all wars are for governments and those that hold the purse strings benefit, the civilians suffer through it all.

I'm not too good at mundane astrology, but thought I'd start a thread about this and hope someone is. Does this look like becoming an all out war, astro wise? An astrologer, Kingsley, said about the Mars moving into Capricorn, how can indicate war. Mars rules war anyway, and getting organised and administrated in Capricorn now.. plus its also joining Pluto and squaring the Uranus. This plus the lunar eclipse which is the apex of a Mars/Pluto sextile Venus/Saturn yod. Sun being the reaction point, opposite the Moon. I wonder if the Venus intervention brings some resolution. Though, I do wonder as Venus will be in Scorpio.

ISRAEL ASTRO MAP

Venus at 23 Taurus recieved an opposition from the solar eclipse and the eclipse also squares their Mars/Saturn midpoint. The lunar eclipse will be on their Mercury, which is also on the fixed star Aldebarran.

Aldebarran
Quote:
Aldebaran, unlike its opposite Antares, can get away with all manner of evils, even though they are both just as extreme as each other. The difference is that Aldebaran knows how to play the game. God is on his side....They have a non-stick veneer and any criticism just slides of them.
Aldebarran with Mercury:
Quote:
Affects the health and domestic affairs, prominence through mercurial matters, material gain, and many learned friends”. [1] These subjects seem to take it upon themselves to speak out against evil. They may swing between sinner and saint and have the archetypical Mercurial talent of switching abruptly between conflicting principles.
I feel, the eclipse yod point towards Israel's Mercury will lead to some sort of solution.

Israel is also heading to a nodal opposition next year, it could be a time of change, triggered by eclipses next spring.

What also looks interesting is the square of Uranus to the IC, and in a good number of years, Pluto's conjunct to the IC. I have similar transits in my own natal chart but the other way round. I will probably be moving house, maybe moving towns. What can it mean for a country, total shake up?

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Unread 11-16-2012, 03:43 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

Situation (astrologically considered) does look disturbing:
-Uranus transiting the Israel astro.chart 7th house (open enemies), under Aries and disposited by Mars (a strong natal Mars posited in Leo), which is the first such transit of Uranus through Aries since the nativity of Israel (1948)
-by simple symbolic progression (I think this is now termed solar arc, ie 1 degree per year), natal Uranus has progressed 64 degrees and is now in partile conjunction with natal Mars (28 Leo)
...a fiery situation to say the least!
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Unread 11-16-2012, 06:05 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

Some informational links for those interested:

A very good interview on how things began, with a well-known Palestinian-American journalist and editor of an online publication about the conflict: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vUUg...&feature=share

'Amid calls for more war crimes, Israel minister hopes attacks will "reformat" Gaza'http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/...-reformat-gaza (yes, like a computer)

'How Israel shattered Gaza truce leading to escalating death and tragedy: a timeline'http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/...agedy-timeline

The Israeli Army is now making preparations for a ground incursion into Gaza (one of the most densely populated areas in the world, and effectively an open air prison, militarily controlled by Israel by land, air and sea).
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Unread 11-16-2012, 06:50 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

My last share, but this is excellent: American Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and war correspondent, Chris Hedges, speaks about Gaza: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtIV1pKilBo&sns=em
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Unread 11-16-2012, 09:40 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

Wait.... I thought the war was since mmmmmm 1950? and actually never ended for any long period. Oh wait barely any of us was even born then.....so I guess there is no telling.
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Unread 11-16-2012, 11:25 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

Yes, the making of the state, I don't know the exact history, but the creation of the country in 1948, by the looks of the chart, well there is so much to explore. Sun and north node in Taurus, 7th/8th house?

Well, I guess it could be viewed as a tide, every now and then a wave rises and fighting breaks out between Israel and Paletsine. Apparently its been going on a lot longer before 1950s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...inian_conflict

I never knew that Israel occupied Lebanon back in the 80s. So much war in that area.

My main concern looking at this outbreak of war (at what point is 'conflict' termed a 'war'...), is the planetry energies happening at this time, with the eclipse triggering so much uprising and taking action, plus the Mars/Pluto Uranus square. And the super yod of December 2012...

BBC news
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Unread 11-16-2012, 11:32 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ82 View Post
'Amid calls for more war crimes, Israel minister hopes attacks will "reformat" Gaza'http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/...-reformat-gaza (yes, like a computer)
I wonder if this reformatting (!) will eventually have anything to do with either the Uranus square to Israels IC (2016) , or Pluto conjunction to their IC (2019ish), age away I know, but everything starts somewhere.
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Unread 11-16-2012, 11:40 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

Yeah I just wanted to highlight that... and yeah my father told me they were "quarreling" long before even he was born (1947).
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Unread 11-17-2012, 03:15 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

Yes we are talking about concentrated periods of exacerbated violence (such as for example the 6 day war, etc) relative to this thread.
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Unread 11-17-2012, 01:30 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

Interesting that Israel's - NN in taurus in 7th.

The country is very much a singleton in the arab world. (SN in scorpio)

Pictures in the news showing dead children being carried through the streets of Gaza. when will it stop and why did it start up again this time?
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Unread 11-17-2012, 07:17 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

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Originally Posted by Caro View Post
Interesting that Israel's - NN in taurus in 7th.

The country is very much a singleton in the arab world. (SN in scorpio)

Pictures in the news showing dead children being carried through the streets of Gaza. when will it stop and why did it start up again this time?
Caro, I posted some very useful links in an earlier post here you may find interesting.
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Unread 11-17-2012, 09:35 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

israel and Palestine have the suns at 22/23 taurus and scorpio, Im surprised no one predicted this with the recent eclipse near those degrees

I think Israel is heavyhanded, assassinating the hamas leader and destroying their govt building is an act of war, hamas is the official govt there isnt it?

As per usual scores of palestinians dead versus a handful of people in Israel, it hasnt worked before and it wont work this time either, not unless a leader who isnt a warmonger is elected will they find a common solution and that includes driving palestinians off their own land every chance they get and get away with

This is my balanced opinion whilst also understanding the Israelis wanting to live their lives without fear of rocket attacks, but flattening gaza and killing scores of innocents is not the answer

Im also surprised benjamin net has a libra stellium and his chart is not bad at all i guess he was pushed into this by hardliners maybe

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Netanyahu,_Benjamin

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Unread 11-18-2012, 07:43 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

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Originally Posted by MJ82 View Post
Caro, I posted some very useful links in an earlier post here you may find interesting.
Thanks will take a look at those.

The whole thing makes me quite sick. with the atrocities of the past you would think they would seek peace.

it has been going on for years millennia. I think it is the energy in that area - as though they are trying to hide something.


libra stellium - libran's are often known for being the commanders behind the battles!!! and can be extremely agressive in this. someone else does the killing though.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 08:36 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

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Thanks will take a look at those.

The whole thing makes me quite sick. with the atrocities of the past you would think they would seek peace.

it has been going on for years millennia. I think it is the energy in that area - as though they are trying to hide something.


libra stellium - libran's are often known for being the commanders behind the battles!!! and can be extremely agressive in this. someone else does the killing though.

Yes it is very sickening. But I must say (as a Palestinian myself who knows a great deal bout the history of this "conflict"), the claim that it has been going on for millennia is a common, but complete, distortion. It has really been going on since 1948, and a little before that.

Prior to 1948, Jews and Arabs lived peacefully in Palestine together, though Jews were statistically a small minority. The problems began when the Zionist movement (born long before - in the late 1800s in fact - the atrocities of the Holocaust and WW2 were even in the making) decided to capitalise on these horrors to put a pre-existing plan into action to colonise Palestine (though they once contemplated colonising Uganda and even Argentina at one point) and to cleanse it of its Palestinian inhabitants (from cities, towns and villages across the country) so as to establish an exclusively Jewish state (akin to the white supremacist state of Apartheid South Africa).

And in 1948, after a decades-long program of mass immigration of Jews from all over the world to Palestine following WW2, they had enough people to join the ranks of armed militias, at this point in training with the British, to establish the state of Israel through a war on the majority Arab inhabitants of Palestine, through violent means, massacres, and mass expulsion of over half a million Palestinians.

The argument that the Jews needed somewhere safe after the Second World War is actually used in a very insulting way to justify a new wave of mass murder on a people that had nothing to do with those crimes. And now Gaza is the Warsaw Ghetto of today. What a tragic irony.

This is the root of the "conflict", as I and many see it. And since 1948, Israel has not ceased to steal more Palestinian land and to build settlements for armed, racist Israeli settlers.

It won't end until the world recognises that Israel is really not much different to the Apartheid regime of South Africa. And if we want "peace", "co-existence" and "love", it cannot be realistically expected under a system of apartheid and neo-colonialism. That system has to end if Jews and Palestinians are to live in peace. That's my opinion anyway, whatever the astrology.

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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:37 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

I was more referring to very ancient held wounds. Mount Sinai and my other references I would have to dig up. (my memory rubbish) I have lived within a jewish community - it was very revealing. Incredibly insular.I could say more but it could be inflammable.

I agree there is a great deal of maniputation here following horrendous events of WW2. I did not know about Uganda. with the recent links to Romney in the states what you say does not surprise me. He did not win.

to me and I hope this next statement is not going to be like dropping a stick of dynamite is how similar both sides are when you see their communities at work..
I think many are actually 'tired' of this now. much empathy for palestine in the people I know.

maybe someone on here with skill can see how these charts(country) may work towards finding peace in our times.

what we need now is some people to emerge who are real drivers for peace.
maybe that is to stop who ever is funding the weapons. perhaps that is those who have settled in the US? but money is tight.so maybe the economic crisis might be beneficial.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 10:51 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

"with the atrocities of the past you would think they would seek peace" Not if someone in my family got killed, or I heard of someone's daughter got killed... If I lived in any war-riddled country I'd fight till I died against whoever wants to step on my toes.
At any rate seems like people rarely forget huge amounts of blood spilled. I don't think that is something very common in history.

As far as astrology I'd say consider 20-700 year timelines.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 04:49 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

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...what we need now is some people to emerge who are real drivers for peace.

maybe that is to stop who ever is funding the weapons. perhaps that is those who have settled in the US? but money is tight.so maybe the economic crisis might be beneficial.
Weapons manufacture as well as weapons selling makes fat profits - therefore those who seek peace are up against billionaire Arms dealers for whom there is no economic crisis. What is needed is a global realisation that for some War is a business like any other.

Perhaps the Arms Dealers could be encouraged to manufacture and sell other commodities BUT at the moment it seems that they are unlikely to change their ways
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Unread 11-18-2012, 05:36 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

I live in Israel and just posted a similar chart in "Political and mundane events".

The situation is so frightening, believe me... Sirens are heard throughout the country and people run for shelter every few minutes. The people in Gaza are also suffering but it's the Hamas (not an official government-they elected themselves) who is running the show there and they can't be negotiated with.
For many years (I've been here 6) the morning news would inform us of rockets being fired at the Israeli southern towns from Gaza. What's enough is enough. Israel decided to kill the Hamas leader, which triggered even worse rocket launch from the side of Gaza (5 days ago)...
Kids aren't going to school, people to work, everyone is tense.

I hope my chart (and this one posted here) are wrong and the whole thing just comes to an end tonight! I can't listen to another siren and run with my kids to the staircase, covering my head for shelter!
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Unread 11-18-2012, 07:11 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

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Originally Posted by Neptune Rising View Post
If you put Chiron in chart, eclipse was on Chiron (and opposition Sun, square Mars). Solar eclipse at this degree as such in not uncommon. This happened in 1947, 1966, 1985, 1993, etc. Israel got independence in 1948.

Eclipses are potential triggers. If eclipse @ Chiron gets triggered, it is serious problem. It may cause/inflict damages of the sort that can't be healed (Chiron is symbolized as Wounded Healer).

Astrologically this type of trigger will have serious consequences.

BTW, United Nation's Partition Plan is dated Nov 28, 1947, exactly 15 days after the Nov 1947 eclipse - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._for_Palestine. Today map is quite different, but there is special significance of Nov 13 eclipse in this area.

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Unread 11-18-2012, 08:59 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

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Originally Posted by tina1979 View Post
I live in Israel and just posted a similar chart in "Political and mundane events".

The situation is so frightening, believe me... Sirens are heard throughout the country and people run for shelter every few minutes. The people in Gaza are also suffering but it's the Hamas (not an official government-they elected themselves) who is running the show there and they can't be negotiated with.
For many years (I've been here 6) the morning news would inform us of rockets being fired at the Israeli southern towns from Gaza. What's enough is enough. Israel decided to kill the Hamas leader, which triggered even worse rocket launch from the side of Gaza (5 days ago)...
Kids aren't going to school, people to work, everyone is tense.

I hope my chart (and this one posted here) are wrong and the whole thing just comes to an end tonight! I can't listen to another siren and run with my kids to the staircase, covering my head for shelter!
it is not acceptable that you cant live a normal life butneither is it acceptable for the israeli military to bulldoze palestinians kill scores of innocents and take their farms houses and land under false pretences and hamas was not there before all the time
israel has MUCH sympathy but it diminishes when they become the aggressors willy nilly and its obvious they dontcare about palestinians and how many die, if one israeli citizen gets killed its like they feel justified to kill 100 as if their lives were worth less, i findthis morally reprehensible, israelis lives areNOT worth anymore

Why has Israel not pushed for peace talks? It should be taking the initiative, givingthe olive branch, after all its them thathas confiscated land even where they had no right

i watched a documentary on al jazeera about the shepherds near the jordan valley, they had one tent to live in or a house and a handful of animals for their livelihood, access to water wells in their back yard was denied to them with the excuse that going near them was not allowed as it was in a military zone but hundred yards up the road israeli settlers had all the water they wanted,greedy pigs its totally UNJUST the israelis are thieves inthis circumstance and bullies and tyrants

So next time you think its bad your kids cant go to school think about how bad it is these shepherds are forced to drive 40 miles to get water,spending money on petrol and also having to be humiliated at a dozen bloody checkpoints on their journey to get it when their rifht to draw on it from their ownwells is denied by draconian cruel israeli laws that treat themlike animals, think about it

oh and for the RECORD the israeli military gave these shepherds 15 minutes to collect their belongings before they bulldozed their dwellings their animal pens and reduced them to an evenpoorer state than they were already in, and for what??? Shameful, shameful

Eta I am also full well aware Israelis are surrounded by arab states, cant be easy for them either, abalance and agreement has to be drawn between their rightsand their neighbours and NO ONE trampling over either, when is enoughenough? neither side have to chose war, its in their interests to coexist peacefully, there really IS no other solution, end of the day they are brothers and hope theyall get this sometime soon before they continue murdering each other for NOTHING

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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:12 PM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

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Originally Posted by Caro View Post
Thanks will take a look at those.

The whole thing makes me quite sick. with the atrocities of the past you would think they would seek peace.

it has been going on for years millennia. I think it is the energy in that area - as though they are trying to hide something.


libra stellium - libran's are often known for being the commanders behind the battles!!! and can be extremely agressive in this. someone else does the killing though.
The point about libra is that they have weighed up the pros and cons and come to a right decision

No one internationallyhas applauded benjamin here onlymade lipspeak to right to defend onself
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Unread 11-19-2012, 02:59 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

I have sympathy for both sides of the debate here on this thread, however might I suggest that we concentrate especially on the astrological indications and possible ramifications, rather than on the contending political/ideological points?

I do think that the current charts and directions of national "natal" charts, are seemingly becoming more ominous, and I think are suggesting more and more the likelihood of a ground invasion coming into the picture-hopefully this will not materialize!
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Unread 11-19-2012, 10:04 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

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Originally Posted by tina1979 View Post

What's enough is enough.

could you also tell us how many israelies were killed up til now as compared to the Palestinians?

Yes enough is enough.

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Unread 11-19-2012, 10:09 AM
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

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Originally Posted by *emma* View Post
it is not acceptable that you cant live a normal life butneither is it acceptable for the israeli military to bulldoze palestinians kill scores of innocents and take their farms houses and land under false pretences and hamas was not there before all the time
israel has MUCH sympathy but it diminishes when they become the aggressors willy nilly and its obvious they dontcare about palestinians and how many die, if one israeli citizen gets killed its like they feel justified to kill 100 as if their lives were worth less, i findthis morally reprehensible, israelis lives areNOT worth anymore

Why has Israel not pushed for peace talks? It should be taking the initiative, givingthe olive branch, after all its them thathas confiscated land even where they had no right

i watched a documentary on al jazeera about the shepherds near the jordan valley, they had one tent to live in or a house and a handful of animals for their livelihood, access to water wells in their back yard was denied to them with the excuse that going near them was not allowed as it was in a military zone but hundred yards up the road israeli settlers had all the water they wanted,greedy pigs its totally UNJUST the israelis are thieves inthis circumstance and bullies and tyrants

So next time you think its bad your kids cant go to school think about how bad it is these shepherds are forced to drive 40 miles to get water,spending money on petrol and also having to be humiliated at a dozen bloody checkpoints on their journey to get it when their rifht to draw on it from their ownwells is denied by draconian cruel israeli laws that treat themlike animals, think about it

oh and for the RECORD the israeli military gave these shepherds 15 minutes to collect their belongings before they bulldozed their dwellings their animal pens and reduced them to an evenpoorer state than they were already in, and for what??? Shameful, shameful

Eta I am also full well aware Israelis are surrounded by arab states, cant be easy for them either, abalance and agreement has to be drawn between their rightsand their neighbours and NO ONE trampling over either, when is enoughenough? neither side have to chose war, its in their interests to coexist peacefully, there really IS no other solution, end of the day they are brothers and hope theyall get this sometime soon before they continue murdering each other for NOTHING
Talmud says different . All other castes have been made to 'SERVE" the israelies. Read it , there are some serious eye openers in it.

They won't even let a person defect from them, let alone an atomic scientist.
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Unread 11-19-2012, 10:21 AM
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sethi sethi is offline
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Re: War in Israel / Gaza

Quote:
Originally Posted by *emma* View Post
it is not acceptable that you cant live a normal life butneither is it acceptable for the israeli military to bulldoze palestinians kill scores of innocents and take their farms houses and land under false pretences and hamas was not there before all the time
israel has MUCH sympathy but it diminishes when they become the aggressors willy nilly and its obvious they dontcare about palestinians and how many die, if one israeli citizen gets killed its like they feel justified to kill 100 as if their lives were worth less, i findthis morally reprehensible, israelis lives areNOT worth anymore

Why has Israel not pushed for peace talks? It should be taking the initiative, givingthe olive branch, after all its them thathas confiscated land even where they had no right

i watched a documentary on al jazeera about the shepherds near the jordan valley, they had one tent to live in or a house and a handful of animals for their livelihood, access to water wells in their back yard was denied to them with the excuse that going near them was not allowed as it was in a military zone but hundred yards up the road israeli settlers had all the water they wanted,greedy pigs its totally UNJUST the israelis are thieves inthis circumstance and bullies and tyrants

So next time you think its bad your kids cant go to school think about how bad it is these shepherds are forced to drive 40 miles to get water,spending money on petrol and also having to be humiliated at a dozen bloody checkpoints on their journey to get it when their rifht to draw on it from their ownwells is denied by draconian cruel israeli laws that treat themlike animals, think about it

oh and for the RECORD the israeli military gave these shepherds 15 minutes to collect their belongings before they bulldozed their dwellings their animal pens and reduced them to an evenpoorer state than they were already in, and for what??? Shameful, shameful

Eta I am also full well aware Israelis are surrounded by arab states, cant be easy for them either, abalance and agreement has to be drawn between their rightsand their neighbours and NO ONE trampling over either, when is enoughenough? neither side have to chose war, its in their interests to coexist peacefully, there really IS no other solution, end of the day they are brothers and hope theyall get this sometime soon before they continue murdering each other for NOTHING

I saw one of the peace protesters "bulldozed" by the bulldozers of the israelies. She was an American. If you like I can search it up again in the internet and post the picture here, but it's not an easy picture to see.My heart really bled for her, a poor innocent women. Unfortunately the shedding of her blood did not change anything at all. Blood wasted.

Snipers shooting at kids 3-4 years old out of fun. Using phosphurous so that when you burn, you cannot stop that burning even after you jump in the lake.

Check the internet. The Federal Reserve should be in the hands of America, instead it is paying interest on the money being printed in it. Why do you think Kennedy was killed? Which was the last law which was changed after he was killed. You can look it up.

The financial system is ruled by the israelies and anyone getting strong in it will be destroyed , just like Japan who was threatened in around 2008. the reactor which blew up, it had been emptied for cleaning etc, and yet it still blew up. The security was in the hands of the israelies. The large cameras installed had the bombs in them. Its all in the internet. I can post links if you like and are interested to spend the time in reading all about it.
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