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Horary Questions on Relational Issues For horary questions about relationships.


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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:01 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Does he love me?

This chart was presented to me, she is in love with a married man and asks if he loves her.
The chart is interesting in that it has some of the topics that have been popping up lately about relationships, so I thought I would share it.
For one thing, he is married, is his wife in this chart and if so how is she represented?
Further, the two significators are Venus and mars who have been the source of endless discussions lately because of their unusual movements towards each other, with retrograde Venus, squares, until the final trine in September.
I've entered some asteroids: Aphrodite goddess of infidelity, Juno goddess of marriage, Amor and Union.
So, we have moon just leaving an inconjunct with Venus, which is an aspect normally not considered in horary charts, and approaches a sextile to Pluto, co-significator of the ascendent. Thus, bringing light from descendent ruler to ascendent ruler.
He is apparently in a tough spot in his marriage, and Uranus planet of separation and divorce, ruler of 4th of end of the matter, is on the 7th cusp.
Juno, goddess of marriage is exactly opposing Chiron, wounded healer, involving the 11th and 5th. He has children in his marriage.
Moon separates from the trine with Neptune on the cusp of the 5th of love affairs.
Amor trines union, and who does this apply to, the querent or the marriage?
Union is in 12th of hidden bed affairs, so is this the querent?
Does moon represent the wife? In its fall in scorpio, jealous, spiteful, vengeful.

I wanted to calculate the Part of Divorce and the Part of Marriage, but, there are several options I'm not sure which one should be used.
One Part of Divorce gives 21 Sagittarius, exactly opposite Venus, ruler of 7th, and square Neptune.
The other gives 9 Aquarius, near the IC.

The most used Part of Marriage gives 19 virgo, square Venus and opposite Neptune, marriage with shades of divorce.
One variant (man's marriage) is 25 pisces, almost conjunct Neptune and square Venus, again divorce aspects.
The other variant is 9 sagittarius.
Why so many variants? And how does one choose?

Anyway, any thoughts on any of these topics?
And also, the answer, does he love her?
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Last edited by ElenaJ; 05-07-2020 at 08:05 PM.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:12 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

You can use the part of love for this, which would be HIS part of love. This would be calculated as (7th house cusp + Venus - Sun) which is at 8'57 Gemini ruler being Mercury.

Venus is in aversion to Mercury, Venus has already past the lot point of 8'57 Gemini, and the moon has just opposed mercury.

It doesn't look good.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:21 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

She is Mars and Moon,he is Venus and Sun.His wife is Mercury. Venus loves Mercury. Sun loves moon. We can say he loves her both but more his wife. Sun is more the sexual attraction. Venus and Mercury in mutual reception by rulership. He won't leave his wife. But Mars an Sun in mutual reception by detriment.

Last edited by kalinka; 05-07-2020 at 10:55 PM.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:25 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

And if we add in his part of desire, which is 7th houses cusp + 5th from 7th cusp - ruler of 5th from 7th = Leo 19'37 ruler Sun

Sun by antiscia is conjunct the MC, and the lot placement of 19'37 Leo opposes Amor.

It looks to me like its more passion and genuine care (Amor) for your friend, rather than actual love.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:34 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

"Venus is in aversion to Mercury". by Chrysalis.


"Venus loves Mercury". Kalinka

I'm getting dizzy here.

And, why is mercury the wife?
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:35 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

mercury is the wife because mercury is in his first house in conjunction with Sun.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:42 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

Asc is friend = mars
He is Dsc = venus
wife is Saturn as its a committed relationship.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:47 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

If you use the generic part of marriage (asc+dsc-venus) and divorce (asc+dsc-Mars) this only shows his relationship to the asc ruler- the querent but not the marriage with his wife. So you can use Valens lots, which part of marriage seems to be in pisces as you mentioned. But I am wondering why you calculated all this lots? The question was only if he loves her and this we see through receptions.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:47 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
mercury is the wife because mercury is in his first house in conjunction with Sun.
Mercury rules his 5th house (11th radical), so this could be his children, who are keeping him in the marriage.

I would have assigned moon to her.

About the Parts.

Calculating the Part of Love, I come up with 9 sagittarius.
The formula on Libra Centre is Ascendent + Venus - sun, whereas you have a formula with descendent + Venus - sun.

Shouldn't these formulas be standard in some way? How can there be so many for the same thing?
What is your source for the Parts.

While doing this, I noticed Part of Lovers (Mars+Venus-Cusp of 5th) which comes out at 0 gemini, almost conjunct Aphrodite of infidelity.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:48 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

"But I am wondering why you calculated all this lots?"

I'm beginning to ask the same question!
I thought it might shed some light, but it seems to just add confusion.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:49 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Asc is friend = mars
He is Dsc = venus
wife is Saturn as its a committed relationship.
Mars in Saturn's rulership and past a conjunction with Saturn. Saturn collected the light of Mars and Venus. No..Saturn is definitely not the wife.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:50 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post

Calculating the Part of Love, I come up with 9 sagittarius.
The formula on Libra Centre is Ascendent + Venus - sun, whereas you have a formula with descendent + Venus - sun.

Shouldn't these formulas be standard in some way? How can there be so many for the same thing?
What is your source for the Parts.
Because we're asking about HIS (Dsc) love for her, not HER (Asc) love for him.

That's why HIS love for her, is DSC + venus - sun.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:51 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
Mars in Saturn's rulership and past a conjunction with Saturn. Saturn collected the light of Mars and Venus. No..Saturn is definitely not the wife.
How do we find out who the wife is then? It cant be mercury by far.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:52 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
How do we find out who the wife is then? It cant be mercury by far.
She's moon?
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:55 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

If shes moon shes inconjunct him venus, is this how they're current situation is (an inconjunction)? Do they not get on?
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:56 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

They get on by habit, after many years.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 08:58 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

I think Sun in 7th could be the wife, Sun by antiscia is conjunct the MC and Sun rules MC, she's known she's seen, to be his wife.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 09:01 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

So she rules his 4th, his home and family life.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 09:03 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

Moon is always primary the querent's co-ruler if it does not represent another main significator. So we are looking at moon's reception to find out who are the other actors in this chart. Moon is in Mars' rulership. So Asc-ruler Mars is the querent.
His co-significator Sun is in his first house. If any signficator is in conjunction with another planet, this shows that this person is involved with another person.
We also don't have much planets left. Saturn is not the wife. So we have Jupiter. However Moon in sextile with Jupiter? Makes no sense...maybe only when the querent will meet the wife. Moon separated from an opposition to Mercury and Sun, which shows what happened( " endless discussions lately because of their unusual movements towards each other".)
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Unread 05-07-2020, 09:05 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
So she rules his 4th, his home and family life.
Yes, that does make more sense.

That's the only trouble with these kinds of charts, trying to figure out who the other person is. Once we know the charts easy to read.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 09:08 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

So what if there is no wife here, but just the marriage, which would be the 7th from the 7th, or the ascendent ?
In reality, no one was asking about the wife.
Actually, neither about the marriage.
Just his emotions (love) towards the querent.

"( " endless discussions lately because of their unusual movements towards each other"."
This was in reference to Venus/mars.

I wonder also if it is a result of this strange Venus/mars situation that there seem to be so many uncertainties about love at the moment?
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Unread 05-07-2020, 09:11 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

Sun and Mercury approach a square to Mars. If Mercury are the children, what wants mercury from Mars?
Sun is his co-ruler, applying a square to Mars but will be prohibit by mercury, the wife.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 09:16 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
So what if there is no wife here, but just the marriage, which would be the 7th from the 7th, or the ascendent ?
In reality, no one was asking about the wife.
Actually, neither about the marriage.
Just his emotions (love) towards the querent.

"( " endless discussions lately because of their unusual movements towards each other"."
This was in reference to Venus/mars.

I wonder also if it is a result of this strange Venus/mars situation that there seem to be so many uncertainties about love at the moment?
I already answered that question. Only sun loves Moon. Venus does not care about Mars and Moon.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 09:16 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

"If Mercury are the children, what wants mercury from Mars? "

They are occupying the descendent, by being in his house they bind him, they are a big consideration for him.

I checked the ephemeris, mercury will square mars before mars changes signs, but sun will not.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 09:19 PM
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Re: Does he love me?

"Venus does not care about Mars and Moon."

It is moon that has left aspect with Venus and now approaches mars, TOL.
There is reception between moon and mars by house, as well as moon in mars' sign.
So the square will bring about the positive reply.

Actually, before contacting mars, moon will sextile Pluto, co-ruler of ascendent.

Last edited by ElenaJ; 05-07-2020 at 09:28 PM.
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