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Aspects & configurations Discuss here about natal chart aspects and configurations.


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  #51  
Unread 04-03-2019, 08:49 PM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

I have limited knowledge about Kepler. I think you must speak archaic German if you want to research the topic. I only know that he had his doubts about houses, and he wasn't much more confident about signs. He had a dim view of most of the astrologers known to him.

He was loathe to do predictions, but he was in considerable demand, and he could not refuse the income. He accepted positions as court astrologer because they were lucrative. He was personally fascinated with his preferred research which included weather forecasting.

He was a brilliant scientist, and modern scientists love to praise his brilliance, but they disingenuously describe him as foe of astrology which is a manifestly untrue. He was blisteringly critical of his contemporaries, but he was an enthusiastic astrologer his whole life.


Last edited by Cary2; 04-03-2019 at 08:52 PM.
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  #52  
Unread 04-03-2019, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cary2 View Post
I'm sorry; speculation like that out of context is something I try to avoid. Orbs are so important. The rest of the chart is so important.

I said earlier that angular Pluto and Moon/Mars are often found in charts of bullies, but it is the height of folly to say that everyone with with such aspects is a bully. Forums are full acrimonious disputes because hostile people love to jump to such conclusions. They are looking for something in one of your statements to use against you with the most dishonest motives imaginable.

I know of a seasoned astrologer with an exalted sense of self-importance who condemned Robert Pellitier and his fine book "Planets in Aspect" because he said something unflattering about an aspect in her chart. She probably persecuted me because I unknowingly did something similar. I swear, you find little else in a forum, and you enter at your own risk.

When you go to a forum, you are in the presence of many people like that, and the fact that they identify as astrologers does not matter. Its just one of the many claims they will make that you should reconsider often.

That is why you might see me withdraw from certain things.
The orb for each planetary midpoint is a single degree. And I mean, if you want to get technical/be consistent, you've already indulged in speculation of that kind by sharing views on these aspects without a look at any charts. But, I understand that "once bitten, twice shy" and I will respect that.

Last edited by conspiracy theorist; 04-03-2019 at 11:55 PM.
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  #53  
Unread 04-04-2019, 01:10 AM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
views on these aspects .
When you say "these aspects" I don't know what you mean. If I speculate what you mean then I think you are wrong.

Are "these aspects" Moon/Mars and angular Pluto?
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Unread 04-04-2019, 01:32 AM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

"These aspects" are Mars/Pluto and Mars/Uranus in general, and not in the context of a chart. What I asked of you (and which you have every right in not complying) is not anything different in kind to what you've already stated, just different in complexity since I asked you about a 4 planet combination, with a follow up question about examples so I could see the combo working "in reality".

Also, I could've taken your general statement about the combination and applied it to my situation; I wasn't asking for a chart read nor would I attack you if you happened to say something "offensive" about my supposed aspects. I've been in many discussions where aspects I have had been tarred and feathered; I'm not bothered by negative opinions about "my astrology" and I am not going to close my ears to someone who happens to say something bad about an aspect or configuration that happens to be in my chart.

I don't see how right and wrong has got anything to do with this, and I would like to reiterate that I respect your desire not to share.
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  #55  
Unread 04-04-2019, 05:04 AM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

Just a study that I've seen one of the highest aspect common in killers/murders is Mars-Venus.(crimes of passion)

Mars-Uranus is one of the other highest ones. (Low frustration tolerance)

Mars-Pluto isnt high In murder rates, however is high in suicides.

I have Mars square Venus (and 9th harmonic Uranus conj Venus). Venus/Uranus midpoint sits partile on my sun. Mars/Uranus midpoint 45 from my sun as well.
Uranus+Mars is very Scorpio like. (My Venus in all of this is in Scorpio so it doesn't help balance anything).

I can say that people with the Mars/Uranus energy are probably more what I would consider dangerous to others verus Pluto-Mars which tend to be more inwardly destructive. [Venus and Uranus are social add that with physical and angry Mars, its Pluto is anti-social added with Mars].

Last edited by Whoam1; 04-04-2019 at 05:07 AM.
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  #56  
Unread 04-04-2019, 05:52 AM
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Spotlight on Mars! For some reason, possibly feeling its effects when it transited Taurus, I've been way more focused on it than usual. C.t. has always given it a great deal of attention, as I recall.
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  #57  
Unread 04-04-2019, 11:35 AM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

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Just a study that I've seen one of the highest aspect common in killers/murders is Mars-Venus.(crimes of passion)

Mars-Uranus is one of the other highest ones. (Low frustration tolerance)

Mars-Pluto isnt high In murder rates, however is high in suicides.

I have Mars square Venus (and 9th harmonic Uranus conj Venus). Venus/Uranus midpoint sits partile on my sun. Mars/Uranus midpoint 45 from my sun as well.
Uranus+Mars is very Scorpio like. (My Venus in all of this is in Scorpio so it doesn't help balance anything).

I can say that people with the Mars/Uranus energy are probably more what I would consider dangerous to others verus Pluto-Mars which tend to be more inwardly destructive. [Venus and Uranus are social add that with physical and angry Mars, its Pluto is anti-social added with Mars].
I think if you conduct such a survey using the midpoint patterns of Cosmobiogists, you will come to a different conclusion. I have experience with murder charts, and midpoints are key. I think neglecting them is more dangerous than ignoring a family of aspects. Most of the astrologers I've known, by far, really don't care about midpoints.

The process of synthesis is important to judging such a case. Synthesis reveals why Mars/Pluto, for instance, is more consequential in one chart than another.
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  #58  
Unread 04-04-2019, 12:07 PM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

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Standard-modern is strict about a Trine, even one with a geometrically tight , 2 or 3 degree Orb, being within Signs of the same Element. I read that the ancient astrologers were less strict about it.
This applies to placements in the 1-2 degree part of one Sign, and the 28-29 degree part of another.
I understand. For me, the signs affected by any aspect are helpful in interpreting the aspect, but an out-of-sign aspect is still judged by me based on orb. Being out of sign does not contradict its orb and geometry.

I think some of the aspect theory of Ptolemy verges on the perverse.
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  #59  
Unread 04-06-2019, 04:30 AM
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Spotlight on Mars! For some reason, possibly feeling its effects when it transited Taurus, I've been way more focused on it than usual. C.t. has always given it a great deal of attention, as I recall.
Speaking of, I've noticed a curiosity since Mars ingressed into Gemini. There's been an increase in sprained hands with the guys I work with, especially those who have more hands on jobs. In my own case, my left hand looks like a chew toy, but my injuries came at the end of Mars in Taurus.
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Unread 04-06-2019, 05:09 AM
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Speaking of, I've noticed a curiosity since Mars ingressed into Gemini. There's been an increase in sprained hands with the guys I work with, especially those who have more hands on jobs. In my own case, my left hand looks like a chew toy, but my injuries came at the end of Mars in Taurus.
Thanks! I'll watch out for my hands.
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  #61  
Unread 04-06-2019, 05:19 AM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

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Those are the instances when Mars is at his worst. Mars is the lesser malefic and really does not cause much trouble until he is aspect to one of the three outer planets. Mars with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto is at his most dangerous.
Are you considering easy aspects in this theory? Perhaps if someone has easy aspects to all three of those outers?
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Unread 04-06-2019, 01:45 PM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

Of course, it is widely known that easy aspects have less challenge and less trouble. But the entire chart connects together in intricate ways, so that is the ultimate index.

When easy aspects contain factors that are hostile to each other, some of that challenge and turmoil remains even though the aspect is easy. But I can't deny that having an easy connection between a troublesome pair can make them much less likely to cause trouble. It depends on the synthesis of the entire chart.

It is so often a matter of energy. A chart with hard aspects is a more energetic chart. The Mars/Pluto square is found in champions which shows the benefits of challenge and energy.

Mars/Pluto often describes a workaholic or someone who works two jobs or works very long hours. That reveals something about the drive in the planetary pair. I think the easy aspects are more likely to show as a workaholic or someone who thrives on vigorous expenditures of energy.

Mars/Pluto carries much of the heights and depths belonging to Scorpio and Pluto. This complicates life for chart interpreters, since the contrast of heights and depths makes interpretation precarious. Some folks with Mars/Pluto aspects are very enthusiastic about metaphysics and the occult.

I do think the sextile is less easy than is often reported. I know the sextile of Mars/Saturn can be brilliantly helpful or downright deadly.

Last edited by Cary2; 04-06-2019 at 01:51 PM.
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  #63  
Unread 04-07-2019, 11:37 PM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

I have noticed something you might find bizarre. Sometimes easy aspects between a dangerous pair shows that you escape danger, but someone close to you does not.
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  #64  
Unread 04-07-2019, 11:56 PM
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Smile Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

Cary, what's your maximum Orb for a Grand Trine?
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  #65  
Unread 04-08-2019, 05:18 AM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

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Of course, it is widely known that easy aspects have less challenge and less trouble. But the entire chart connects together in intricate ways, so that is the ultimate index.

When easy aspects contain factors that are hostile to each other, some of that challenge and turmoil remains even though the aspect is easy. But I can't deny that having an easy connection between a troublesome pair can make them much less likely to cause trouble. It depends on the synthesis of the entire chart.

It is so often a matter of energy. A chart with hard aspects is a more energetic chart. The Mars/Pluto square is found in champions which shows the benefits of challenge and energy.

Mars/Pluto often describes a workaholic or someone who works two jobs or works very long hours. That reveals something about the drive in the planetary pair. I think the easy aspects are more likely to show as a workaholic or someone who thrives on vigorous expenditures of energy.

Mars/Pluto carries much of the heights and depths belonging to Scorpio and Pluto. This complicates life for chart interpreters, since the contrast of heights and depths makes interpretation precarious. Some folks with Mars/Pluto aspects are very enthusiastic about metaphysics and the occult.

I do think the sextile is less easy than is often reported. I know the sextile of Mars/Saturn can be brilliantly helpful or downright deadly.
The sextile happens to be how my Mars and Pluto meet, but it also has trines to Neptune and Uranus and I do feel the trine is a lot easier since they're in the same element. It just feels like they understand each other on a deep level so it just flows. Sextiles don't have that so I can see what you're saying. My Mars ruler is trine Pluto and opposite Uranus/Neptune but I definitely feel the hit from Uranus/Neptune A LOT more


Most sources describe the trine as a slightly harder aspect tho. I wonder why

Last edited by Lykanized; 04-08-2019 at 05:22 AM.
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  #66  
Unread 04-08-2019, 04:17 PM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

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The sextile happens to be how my Mars and Pluto meet, but it also has trines to Neptune and Uranus and I do feel the trine is a lot easier since they're in the same element. It just feels like they understand each other on a deep level so it just flows. Sextiles don't have that so I can see what you're saying. My Mars ruler is trine Pluto and opposite Uranus/Neptune but I definitely feel the hit from Uranus/Neptune A LOT more


Most sources describe the trine as a slightly harder aspect tho. I wonder why
Harder than the sextile? Not me. The only thing softer than a trine is a novile.

That doesn't mean I think the trine is weak. The squares become less troublesome in your 40's as you become seasoned and mature and familiar with the hurdles, but trines just persist.

I use a smaller orb for the sextile than most people. The orb I use for quintile and biquintile is larger than the sextile.

A close Grand Trine with small orbs all the way around is usually an affliction. The midpoints locked into such a configuration are the drivers, I think. I don't think it is due to the trine's normal qualities. I don't recall seeing a Minor Grand trine that was an affliction, though. Wide, skew Grand Trines are probably not an affliction. Or so I think.

Come to think of it. The sextiles in a Minor Grand trine may benefit from the involvement, or so I am inclined to think now.
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Unread 04-08-2019, 04:34 PM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

That view of grand trines reminds me of the specific case of Jordan Belfort, who has a water grand trine of Cancer Sun - Scorpio Neptune - Pisces Jupiter. You could see how that played out in the movie "Wolf of Wall Street" which is said to be based on actual events in his life. As well as the many cases of serial killers and "bad" people who have little to no discordant aspects in their chart.
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Unread 04-08-2019, 04:43 PM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

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Cary, what's your maximum Orb for a Grand Trine?
I use a very wide orb for Grand Trines because experience proves to me that is justified. I am amazed how often a skew Grand Trine is instrumental to chart interpretation.

Look at Mercury/Jupiter/Netpune in the charts, Marlon Brando, Jack Nicholson, and Meryl Streep. The two planetary pairs that most reliably describe an actor are Mars/Neptune and Mercury/Neptune. Mercury/Neptune/Jupiter often describes a successful actor. It can also describe a fine sense of humor. I have a friend born on Streep's birthday who is not an actor, but he has the best sense of humor of anyone I ever met. Mercury/Neptune "joker". My friend is known throughout our circles as a successful joker.

Last edited by Cary2; 04-08-2019 at 04:45 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #69  
Unread 04-08-2019, 04:55 PM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

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That view of grand trines reminds me of the specific case of Jordan Belfort, who has a water grand trine of Cancer Sun - Scorpio Neptune - Pisces Jupiter. You could see how that played out in the movie "Wolf of Wall Street" which is said to be based on actual events in his life. As well as the many cases of serial killers and "bad" people who have little to no discordant aspects in their chart.
Yeah. Sun/Jupiter/Neptune "gambler"


Jerry Sandusky has Sun/Mars/Neptune and the widest orb in the bunch is 2.4 degrees or so. This looks like an afliction to me.
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Unread 04-08-2019, 09:00 PM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

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Cary, what's your take on Yods--meaningful or not important? I mean, do you consider them significant?
I'm sorry. You asked a question about Yods, but I answered with quincunxes.

I can skirt the many finicky rules about configurations because I have found that the chief property of a configuration is its meaningful connection of three or more factors. Whether I interpret a Yod or a Grand Trine, it is the three factors combined in meaning that I concentrate on. The fact that a Yod has a sextile and two quincunxes is secondary. I certainly do not view it as "Finger of God" whatever that means.

Notice how many astrologers try to esconce themselves in mystery. They have dreams of students at their feet while they evoke astrological confections. Finger of God indeed.

A proper Yod has one planet opposed the midpoint of the other two. That would be meaningful to Ebertin and his school without any consideration of the aspects involved. The addition of aspects, two quincunxes and one sexitle, is further refinement that expands the orbs a little. When midpoint pictures are combined with aspects, the orbs and the significance increases.

My interpretation will consist mainly of the three planet combination and the specific meaning implied by that. Oh, yes, and a Yod has strain and opportunity.
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  #71  
Unread 04-09-2019, 01:20 AM
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I'm sorry. You asked a question about Yods, but I answered with quincunxes.

I can skirt the many finicky rules about configurations because I have found that the chief property of a configuration is its meaningful connection of three or more factors. Whether I interpret a Yod or a Grand Trine, it is the three factors combined in meaning that I concentrate on. The fact that a Yod has a sextile and two quincunxes is secondary. I certainly do not view it as "Finger of God" whatever that means.

Notice how many astrologers try to esconce themselves in mystery. They have dreams of students at their feet while they evoke astrological confections. Finger of God indeed.

A proper Yod has one planet opposed the midpoint of the other two. That would be meaningful to Ebertin and his school without any consideration of the aspects involved. The addition of aspects, two quincunxes and one sexitle, is further refinement that expands the orbs a little. When midpoint pictures are combined with aspects, the orbs and the significance increases.

My interpretation will consist mainly of the three planet combination and the specific meaning implied by that. Oh, yes, and a Yod has strain and opportunity.
"Strain and opportunity"! Excellent description. Opportunity knocks, but it's a strain to open the door. Requires a reason for motivation, besides just the Yod alone.

Here's a heavy one--total Solar eclipse on one's SR Day. I know someone who's going to have that, Sun in . Not sure how to explain what it portends.
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Unread 04-09-2019, 02:17 AM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

My sons have an almost exact Pluto Mars opposition. it seems to play out as ability to achieve their goals despite difficult situations occurring. Its an inner personal power thing too they have an inner resource which they can call on.
When doing a project they will stick at it till its done exactly perfectly. They like to do something 100% eg if they are making something they will attend to every exactly detail until they are satisfied it is the best.
They don't have any other Pluto aspects.
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Unread 04-09-2019, 02:24 AM
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My sons have an almost exact Pluto Mars opposition. it seems to play out as ability to achieve their goals despite difficult situations occurring. Its an inner personal power thing too they have an inner resource which they can call on.
When doing a project they will stick at it till its done exactly perfectly. They like to do something 100% eg if they are making something they will attend to every exactly detail until they are satisfied it is the best.
They don't have any other Pluto aspects.
What Signs are they in?
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Unread 04-09-2019, 02:36 AM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

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My sons have an almost exact Pluto Mars opposition. it seems to play out as ability to achieve their goals despite difficult situations occurring. Its an inner personal power thing too they have an inner resource which they can call on.
When doing a project they will stick at it till its done exactly perfectly. They like to do something 100% eg if they are making something they will attend to every exactly detail until they are satisfied it is the best.
They don't have any other Pluto aspects.
Yes, Mars/Pluto loves a challenge, and they invest themselves "whole hog".
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Unread 04-09-2019, 04:04 PM
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Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart

You may know who Lindsey Buckingham is, he was the lead guitarist, male singer, and contributing songwriter for the band Fleetwood Mac. His relationship with the others in the band, especially his ex-lover Stevie Nicks, is very rocky. In fact, he was recently fired from the band as they prepared for a new world tour.

Buckingham has a close Mars/Pluto conjunction closely conjunct his Ascendant squared to Venus. This is not a simple Mars/Pluto issue since Mars/Asc and Pluto/Asc are very important contributors. The band reveal only that he is difficult without getting specific. Buckingham and Nicks parted as lovers near the height of the band's success, but they continued to be coworkers in the band.

Buckingham is a musical genius, and Brian Wilson is another genius from the Beach Boys. Wilson admires Buckingham, and he was excited to work with him in the studio, but said that he was more intense than anyone he had ever known. Wilson said he was actually "scared" a few times because of Buckingham's "intensity".
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