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Unread 09-08-2017, 11:47 PM
pommepomme pommepomme is offline
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Confounded by Spica...Relocation Horary

I have recently been running into questions (including my own) that figure Jupiter prominently as Querent. Right now Jupiter is on Spica, which in most texts appears to both protect it from the VC and to make everything turn out okay - even if the desired outcome is denied.

That said in a recent relocation horary, wherein I asked "Should I move back to Seattle?" I am a little confused by the answer. On the surface it is a "no." I.e. we take the 1st H ruler (Jupiter) and the 7th house ruler as Seattle (Mercury) and we find that a.) There is no aspect between the two, thus a "no." And b.) Mercury is about to change signs to be dignified in it's own spot (makes sense as Seattle is doing pretty well...) but that would place it in the detriment of Jupiter - again a big red flag for Jupiter.

Okay, fair enough. But of the two locations (here or there) Mercury is clearly much stronger (Power at 13, and just getting stronger as it moves from it's critical degree at Regulus in Leo to Virgo - it's own sign and exaltation) and Mars being at a mere 1. But they BOTH hate me. (If you use receptions.)
However, we also have Jupiter in Libra on Spica here in the 10th house - typically this is the house of career, etc, but Jupiter is not making any aspects to 10th house ruler (Venus) and Jupiter is exalting Saturn with mutual/mixed reception (i.e. Saturn is in the sign of Jupiter) thus suggesting that whatever Saturn is is "best" for Jupiter. But Saturn here is in the 1st house, rules the 2nd and 3rd - which are usually houses of possessions and money/siblings, communication and short trips.... Unclear what the heck that means for relocation?? Also note, however that SN is in 2nd/3rd house... so that would usually be pretty shaky for the affairs of those houses.

Using Lilly's rules for relocation doesn't help either - as the 4th house ruler (where I am now) is Mars - and Jupiter is in the sign of detriment for Mars (I hate where I am) and Mars doesn't like me much either...(Mars is in detriment of Jupiter.) So... where I am is pretty awful too. So it looks like staying is bad too. Sigh. What's a person to do? Lol.

So, the only "possible" saving grace is the Moon which is positioned in the sign and house of current home - Mars (so maybe I have some "heart" for here?) but no reception back (Mars is indifferent to the Moon.) Note also that nasty upcoming opposition between Moon and Jupiter... Hmm. Could this be a home/career conflict? That doesn't make much sense really, as I don't have anything holding me here (well, I guess my kids are here) and I am pretty miserable here. Maybe something gives - but if it is a career opportunity I should avoid it in both where I am AND in Seattle, eh? What with me being in detriment these places... In any case, the real question is what does Jupiter's position on Spica, unaspected mean?

Just as an aside as far as other methods are concerned it would look like Wallis' Magic 8 ball rules would say "Yes." (Mercury on 7th = Yes.)
Ankara would say "Maybe." (Whole house)

Couple of other very tertiary things to note/that may have impact: Jupiter (Me) is Parallel Neptune. Mars (for current location) is conjunct antiscion of Uranus - as I don't usually note outer planets, but have found Neptune to indicate either deception (self or other) or escapism and Uranus to create some level of havoc/unexpected event - this is interesting for Mars as an aside or "hidden" influence... anyone have any other insight on what this means? (Uranus being in 4th and Neptune in 3rd here.)

Also for those who like Sabians: the antiscion of the Asc is on 21 Capricorn: A Relay Race; for the 7th it is 21 Cancer: A Prima Donna Sings for 4th is 26 Virgo: A Boy with A Censer Serves Near an Altar and for 10th House (Final Outcome for some) it is: New Moon Reveals Time for People To Move Ahead with Projects.

So, I ever more confused by what the overall chart is trying to tell me. There are no third options, and I am not currently working or looking for a job, so not sure what I am missing.

Biggest question for those of you who have much practice with querent on Spica - has this meant "no" and what was the outcome for your client/question?

Chart in question is attached

Any insights from those of you with in-depth experience with Spica in horary and what other houses in a relocation can mean is much appreciated.
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File Type: jpg astro_2gw_relocate_back_to_seattle.83543.19900.jpg (57.5 KB, 12 views)

Last edited by pommepomme; 09-09-2017 at 12:39 AM. Reason: Updated information...
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Unread 09-09-2017, 01:10 AM
pommepomme pommepomme is offline
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Re: Confounded by Spica...Relocation Horary

Thank you, Blue God.

You see Venus as representative of a partner? As ruler of the 10th with me posited therein and Venus as dispositor, I can see your point as to this not boding well for whatever Venus is trying to do or be. With it ruling the 10th, (and the 6th) I thought this was in relation to work, possibly. But as I am not working nor looking, I took this to mean to be wary of any job position offered...

Alas, I don't have a partner. So, at least that can hurt me. (Ahem.)

I agree, there appear to be secrets here. But of what ilk and manner I just don't see. My current location is where the 'parent' location is (and where I am originally from) but it still looks dicey.
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Unread 09-09-2017, 02:15 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Confounded by Spica...Relocation Horary

Following the Ankara horary method, I'll use the Lot of Rectitude (ie, right thing, best thing to do, right choice to make) to evaluate this horary:

:Querent = 1st house = Sagittarius = Jupiter
:Lot of Rectitude (ascendant+mars-mercury) = 12 Sagittarius, significator = Jupiter
:long distance moving = 9th whole sign house = Leo = Sun

: the LOR falls in the angular first house = + testimony
: the LOR is in an elevated degree = + testimony
: its significator, Jupiter, conjuncts Spica = + testimony
: its significator, which is the same as querent's significator, Jupiter, flows toward the LOR = + testimony
: long distance moving significator, the Sun, flows toward both Jupiter and also toward the LOR = + testimony
: Moon flows toward long distance moving significator the Sun = + testimony
: Moon flows away from the LOR and querent/LOR significator Jupiter = - testimony
: long distance moving significator the Sun is in an elevated degree = + testimony

Positive testimonies = 7
Negative testimonies = 1
Net = +6 testimonies
Answer: to the question about moving back to Seattle (as the best or right thing for the querent to do), the answer is yes, definitely.

In Modern Lunar Horary, Moon's next conjunction in the chart is with Uranus: this means that if a move back to Seattle would be a radical change from the current situation for the querent, the answer is favorable; also, unexpected developments could occur.

Last edited by dr. farr; 09-09-2017 at 02:57 AM.
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pommepomme (09-09-2017)
Unread 09-09-2017, 11:28 PM
pommepomme pommepomme is offline
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Re: Confounded by Spica...Relocation Horary

Dr. Farr,

I am honored to have you respond to my horary inquiry. I have for many years been a fan of yours and am delighted to have your insights and analysis.

I hadn't heard of the Lot of Rectitude before, so this casts an entirely new light to the chart. As the distance of the move is less than 400 miles, does it still for you count as a 9th house matter?

Now that I know I "should" I suppose the question has to be "Will it happen?" and uh, "When?" because as of now, I am not seeing the way...
perhaps that what the Uranus conjunction is about.

In any case, your accuracy and reputation well precede you and and I am again grateful for your analysis.
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dr. farr (09-11-2017)
Unread 09-11-2017, 11:44 PM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Confounded by Spica...Relocation Horary

Originally Posted by pommepomme View Post
Dr. Farr,

I hadn't heard of the Lot of Rectitude before, so this casts an entirely new light to the chart. As the distance of the move is less than 400 miles, does it still for you count as a 9th house matter?
Yes I would.

Regarding IF you will move, that would be a new question; try to put a time frame on that question as well.
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Unread 09-12-2017, 05:01 AM
Indeed I Dream Indeed I Dream is offline
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Re: Confounded by Spica...Relocation Horary

Yes, you should likely
Because the 4th house Rule is The same as the Fifth house...
Testimony is Yes
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Unread 09-12-2017, 08:26 PM
pommepomme pommepomme is offline
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Re: Confounded by Spica...Relocation Horary


As to the follow-up question, I am going to post it in this thread (for ease of following the conversation, for those who may be interested) and on the relocation horary forum page as well.

So here's the horary for the $64000 question: "Will I move back before the Spring?"

I think this question is entirely too laden and emotional for me to be able to even start to really read this chart, so I have decided to take this opportunity to run through some educational methods (as practice for myself and experimenting with outcomes.)

Using Traditional Rules (i.e. Lilly) for relocation: (note: this part is more of an exercise in applying traditional rules, this analysis is better for evaluating the relative merits of "staying or going" as it were, which was already done in previous question.)

If we use 4th as "here" and 7th as "there" and 10th as "good or bad resulting" then I am Mars in the 9th moving to 10th (within 3 degrees of 10th), Under the Sun's Beams (though just barely) with limited dignity in Virgo (power of 4.) So, I am likely just on the verge of some change/release. Moon as "secondary" is in 7th House moving to 8th (showing where my "heart" is) and in Gemini, about to make some pretty hard aspects to Sun and Saturn. But has a minor sextile to Venus and a final trine to Jupiter... rulers of 7th and 4th houses respectively.

Looking for "benefics" (Jupiter, Sun, Venus) in respective houses: There are none in 1st, 4th or the 7th house (so no favor to one or the other.)

Looking for "malefics" (Saturn, Mars): None again. (Again, neutral.)

Neither ruler of 4th or 7th is "with" benefic or malefic. (Neutral.)

There are no particularly favorable aspects between 1st/4th/7th Rulers. Nor have they recently separated from a bad aspect to a malefic. (Neutral)

Looking for retrograde or peregrine planets in any of the pertinent houses the only planet we have retrograde is Neptune (if you count it) in the 4th. Traditionally this wouldn't be counted.

Ruler of 2nd house is minorly "afflicted" (i.e. weak, peregrine or in 8th/12th houses). (Which would indicate move - but here it's likely moot as Jupiter is so strong.)

Lilly suggests that the strongest planet with the most favorable aspect is where the querent should move: here is it Mercury. With it ruling 8th and 10th, posited in 9th, and traditional ruler to learning, communication, etc. Unclear here.

Ruler 1 is not stronger than ruler 7. (Minorly suggests move.)

The planet the Moon just separated from was Mars, applying to Sun - normally a separation from a misfortune to a fortune from either 1st H. ruler or Moon would be "move." But these are both squares. So...

We'd have a minor suggestion of it being better to move.

Moving to the actual interaction of the respective planets (again using "traditional" methods):

Again, I am Mars and the Moon. Both appear on cusps of houses, suggesting some sort of change to come. Neither is particularly weak or strong.

Where I am now is 4th House: Jupiter in the 12th House (technically in 11th) in Libra with pretty strong dignities and Conjunct Spica/Arcturus...(power of 19 - um, which is surprising...?) There are no receptions with Mars, and in fact Jupiter is in the sign of Mars' detriment. There are also no aspects between the 2.

Seattle is Venus in 9th as well, also with limited dignity in Leo (power of 6. There is weak reception by face between R1 and R7, but no aspect.

Side Notes on the aspects: Moon would make a Sextile to Venus but only after a Square with the Sun. And a conjunction between Venus and Mars would be in 13 degrees (which is out of orb, really anyway) and but for Mercury, which will get to Mars 1st - so given that Mars is in the dignity of Mercury and will be conjunct Mercury, may want to look at Mercury which is very strong, posited in 9th House as well, but ruler of 10th and 8th... hmm. Again that 10th House. Still unclear as to what this means for me, as again I am not working and this isn't a legal and no parents or "rulers" (i.e. bosses, etc.) are involved in the question (10th House issues) and sex/death/taxes/debts (8th House issues) have had only limited consideration for me thus far, but...Definitely have a blind spot here.

For Final Result of Move: 10th Ruler is Mercury, very strong in own sign and exaltation, in the 9th House and appears to be the "handle" on the entire chart... So outcome resulting is very good (confirming the "Should I move" analysis above?)

However, If we take the 9th house as the "long distance move" we have the Moon as the Move with only a separating aspect to Mars. So all action is in the past. *Sigh*

Using some alternative methods/information (Sabians, Modern, etc.):
Sabian Symbols (using antiscions of houses)

Modern Horary (using outer planets):

Modern ruler of 4th is Neptune. Neptune is in 4th House and own sign, but is retrograding. The next aspect is between Mars and Neptune and is an opposition - which would show separation. The aspect would be exact in about 8 units (maybe a little faster given Retrograde motion/mutual application) with it being a common sign/angular house application this could be Weeks.

There are no parallel/CP aspects between the planets in question. There is a conjunction to contrascion of Pluto to Moon.

Magic 8 Ball:
Using 7th: Venus = Yes.
Using 9th: Moon = Maybe.
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