Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Natal Astrology > Astrology and Psychology

Astrology and Psychology For interesting discussions on psychological meanings and deeper implications in natal charts between members passionated by both psychology and astrology.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 01-06-2013, 02:29 PM
StillOne's Avatar
StillOne StillOne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Coastal Mountains
Posts: 2,595
Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Oy Vey, I was hoping this thread had died not to be returned to light...


Last edited by StillOne; 08-18-2017 at 02:21 PM. Reason: rephrasing
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 01-06-2013, 03:29 PM
MJ82's Avatar
MJ82 MJ82 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 634
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

An interesting article I came across a while back. Might be of interest?: http://laraowen.com/articles/astrolo...gy-of-passion/

As for me, I have a number of passions (but not always the grounding to act on them! - Neptune). I'm very passionate about politics, activism and social justice (Mars conjunct Pallas in the 8th, Pluto in Libra in the 8th). I'm sure Uranus (my chart ruler) conjunct my MC plays a big part too. I think many many things can indicate passion. It depends what kind of passion we're talking about... (I think I'm also a passionate lover )

Last edited by MJ82; 01-06-2013 at 03:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MJ82 For This Useful Post:
AllanBeau (01-19-2013), Flapjacks (04-03-2014)
  #3  
Unread 01-06-2013, 03:30 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

I'm passionate about oversimplistic answers to ill-defined questions.

What is passion?

What is its source, what is its nature?

"The passions" embrace a wide range of feelings and drives.

Yes, I understand your question. I know what you mean. Or do I?
A passion might be a deep feeling; it might be a special interest. Do you mean "object of desire", as when a drunkard desires his wine?

The question is not so simple when you try to apply astrology to it.

Does everyone have "a passion?"

Astrology really doesn't work very well when we try to impose ourselves on it. It works much better when it can work on its own terms, and we don't try to force it. The same as a horse.

And in a way you are putting the cart before the horse. What if...we let the chart say, "This woman is passionate about needlework (or saving the environment, or eliminating pigeons from the church belfry)" instead of trying to pigeonhole "passion" to some locus in the horoscope and stuffing it in there whether it fits or not?

Last edited by greybeard; 01-06-2013 at 03:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Useful Post:
Flapjacks (04-03-2014), Nadineday (03-03-2014)
  #4  
Unread 01-06-2013, 03:32 PM
Moog's Avatar
Moog Moog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: In The Litter Tray
Posts: 2,701
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

I have scorpio rising and am very passionate about myself.
__________________
My Chart, Tropical
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Moog For This Useful Post:
Nadineday (03-03-2014)
  #5  
Unread 01-06-2013, 03:36 PM
MJ82's Avatar
MJ82 MJ82 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 634
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

What Greybeard says has some truth though. Not everything can be reduced to astrology or so clearly defined. After all, each person will have their own definition of passion, and one person's passion will be another person's boredom!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 01-06-2013, 03:39 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,501
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

I can find passion in a chart in many ways. But you have to tell me what kind of passion are you talking about:

Sexual Passion?

Career Passion?

Creativity Passion?

What?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 01-06-2013, 05:58 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Ok, "passionate about astrology" ---

And here's where we run into the problem of a "single locus" for describing anything in astrology. My "passion for astrology" is not to be found in any single significator. Not in the 5th house, the 8th house, the sign of Scorpio, the planet Mars...

Astrology is composed of several "sets" of symbols: signs, houses, planets, aspects....
Astrology claims that, within the limits of its symbolic nature, it can describe the qualities of anything that is born, human beings and their affairs being its principal interest.

Human beings are arguably the most complex organism in the universe known to man. It follows that astrology must, in its workings, have a comparable degree of difficulty or sophistication.

The "passion for astrology" is not indicated by any single significator, but by the sum of many symbols. It is the whole chart. And then all you get is a symbolic "pointing toward", and not a specific statement. Compare my chart (passion for astrology) with any other chart (passion for astrology) and you will see two entirely different charts.

So, if your approach to astrology is to pick up a chart and say "I will now describe your passion in life," and then proceed post haste to the 5th house....well, lotsa luck.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 01-06-2013, 06:43 PM
MJ82's Avatar
MJ82 MJ82 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 634
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
I appreciate it and see my error in the thread. Much appreciated. I'm asking the mods to delete it.
Oh no! Don't delete it! It's a legitimate question with many different opinions
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 01-06-2013, 07:20 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,501
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
Great I'm glad it's able to be found so many ways!

PM sent.
No PM arrived...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 01-06-2013, 07:43 PM
Caro's Avatar
Caro Caro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: By the sea
Posts: 1,732
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

you could look to mars in the chart as 'a starter for 10.'

my mars in 12th house from an early age I was penning letters to 'MP's; about human rights and joined amnesty international. (mars in libra)

to find what awakens your whole chart is a great thing.

Im also a scorpio asc but not as scarey as Moog.

astrodienst also has a forum. people are a little more into chat over on that site!
__________________
Time() for change()

Soundtrack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfJRX-8SXOs

'You can take a horse to water but you can not make it drink'! My grandad
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 01-06-2013, 10:05 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Your question is valid.

But it needs thought, polishing...

A chart might show that the person tends to lean toward things that go Boom
Or is clinging, and thus prone to collecting Barbie dolls

If the whole-tone of the chart is conservative, cautious....you are not likely to find a race car driver or antarctic explorer.

Bruce Lee's chart had Mars as final dispositor, Mars the Warrior. There's his passion....Mars was in Scorpio (Purification). There's his passion. Other things in the chart continue to modify, to refine, to specify......until finally the astrologer's intuitive mind (which largely works on accumulated experience) is quite likely to "see" what the passion is, that is, the life purpose.

The word "passion" comes from the Middle Latin passio, which directly refers to the Passion of Jesus, and thus came to signify "sacrifice, suffering".....and then it came to be applied to the sexual and other passions. Therefore, a "passion" is, in a sense, "what you would sacrifice yourself to, would die for."

On dog on the trail of a ***** in heat is oblivious to all around him. There is only one thing that concerns him, and he would die for it. Passion.

The heat of anger: you see red and there is nothing in the world but the object of your anger and the anger itself. The passion consumes you.

The Bhagavad Gita says that if a man truly worships a god, and makes sacrifice to that god, then that god will reward him. This is passion. What consumes you, what you are willing to sacrifice yourself to and suffer for, that is your passion. It is the passion of love, of loving so much you give yourself to it, lose yourself in it.

And the horoscope does show this passion. But it won't be found in the way you were looking for it.

The "seer" must see the whole. Once you have taught yourself to do this, then you will be able to see the parts (whatever sort of detail you want) and understand them in relation to the whole.

Last edited by greybeard; 01-06-2013 at 10:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Useful Post:
StillOne (03-03-2014), tsmall (01-07-2013)
  #12  
Unread 01-06-2013, 11:55 PM
IleneK's Avatar
IleneK IleneK is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: in this mysterious cosmos
Posts: 5,031
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Your question is valid.

But it needs thought, polishing...

A chart might show that the person tends to lean toward things that go Boom
Or is clinging, and thus prone to collecting Barbie dolls

If the whole-tone of the chart is conservative, cautious....you are not likely to find a race car driver or antarctic explorer.

Bruce Lee's chart had Mars as final dispositor, Mars the Warrior. There's his passion....

<...>

And the horoscope does show this passion. But it won't be found in the way you were looking for it.

The "seer" must see the whole. Once you have taught yourself to do this, then you will be able to see the parts (whatever sort of detail you want) and understand them in relation to the whole.
Hello, greybeard.

While it is our aspiration to see the whole, when we are learning, many of us are not capable of doing so.

Most of us begin by learning the parts, and after a lot of time and effort, it may coalesce into seeing the whole. Without denying the importance of seeing the whole chart, I think the overarching intent of this thread is to accumulate the tools to do so.

Very kind regards,
__________________
Ilene

"You gotta have heart..." Richard Adler 1921-2012
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to IleneK For This Useful Post:
StillOne (03-03-2014)
  #13  
Unread 01-07-2013, 02:41 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Point taken.

The learning never stops.

And you are a kind soul.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 01-07-2013, 03:03 AM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,501
Back to the original question

Getting back to the original question....

Were you speaking about yourself? About what you are passionate about? I would assume that you already know what you are passionate about.

But many of us are passionate about many things, and this passion can connect to many different activities. For example, I am kind of passionate about helping others. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have been able to dedicate 40 years of my life helping children, and adults to help children.

I don't do that now, so I am passionate about helping others using the skills that I still have without working directly with children, since I am no longer in a position to do that.

So are you looking to find passion in a central part of living? If this is the case, most people's passion turns out to be their best vocational aptitude.

Is this what you are talking about?

Z
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 01-07-2013, 04:38 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
I've been thinking about this for a bit now. I'm curious to how one may be able to find what one is passionate about, on a deep level, in the birth chart.

Since I'm relatively new to astrology, and don't study as much as I probably should (yet), I haven't read much on this topic.

However, I do know what I'm passionate about. In my chart we can look for which house has Scorpio as the house cusp. Scorpio being the deep, immersive, transformative, emotional, probing, transcending, etc. sign of the zodiac. I believe locating where this sign is in your chart may give you where your deeper or possibly deepest passions lie. Just speculating here...

Of course, the conditions of the ruler(s) Pluto and/or Mars will have a story to tell as well. It is interesting to me, in regards to the topic, that these two planets should be associated with passion. Mars gives the drive (or lack of) to push in the direction and Pluto possibly gives transformation, transcension, power, control, rebirth, etc. which could be important in achieving ones deeper desires.

Now in my chart Scorpio falls in house five. It's true that I'm passionate about fifth house issues! All of them. However, it has also occurred to me that possibly passion could merely be assigned to house five. That is regardless of what sign is there. Similarly house eight may have something to do with all of this as well..? I'm unsure...

I'm merely speculating and trying to generate some discussion on the matter.

What do you think? Care to share what you're passionate about and give examples of how it relates to your chart?
Well, my second house is Scorpio, I have Mars exalted in 4th, and I can honestly say that while I enjoy the things that support the body (and you know, keep me alive) I'm not all that passionate about them. Like, I am happy that I make enough to keep the lights on and the wolves at bay, but other than that? Enh.

I think the other posters who have asked basically passion re what exactly have it right. We can look for passion as pertains to vocation or calling at the ASC and MC, but it is possible for people to have other passions. Again for me personally, I'm passionate about equality, and justice. Could that be Jupiter clinging to the ASC? Probably. I am passionate about the people in my life, my partners (yes those kinds of partners)..could that be Aries as the 7th, with Spirit and Fortune there, ruled by that same exalted Mars in 4th? Probably...the list can go on.

StillOne, can you maybe define the specific passion you are looking for? I think you hit it right in correlating your passion not to Scorpio, but to the 5th...though again it takes a lot of looking...

If "passion" is synonymous with "calling" then I would still look at the MC. But we can be passionate in a lot of ways, about a lot of things. And that can change over time (or over minutes, lol.)
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 01-07-2013, 05:32 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,501
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

OK... I think I understand, but you are not asking too much from astrology. IMO, most astrologers need more of a big picture on the human predicament. But unless the astrologer had been in a counseling practice helping people over a long term, rather just one session, to deal with life problems, then they would not know how to answer your question except in a piecemeal way.

What you are asking is a variation of the most important question that I always lead out any chart analysis(the word reading makes it sound like a simple reading of a book).

IMO...the first thing every astrologer should ask and the first thing every astrologer should tell a new client is how they deal with change and how they should improve their dealing with it. Its my first Quotient. People who tend to launch into new things with gusto and abandon are people who deal with change in a very very positive way, and tend to look pretty passionate.

People who are afraid of change or look at every new change as something totally new or as a personal danger to their status quo, will not look passionate about anything, and thus look passive as you've described it. However, they may channel their passions into finely focused efforts which have less of a chance of failure, which are not as visible in the life.

My Notebook has more than 30 pages of possible measurements for identifying this in a client. It is exceedingly important for me to look at this first. The reason is to give me a clear idea of how my "wild and crazy" ideas are likely to impinge on the client. All astrology is by nature wild and crazy compared to other kinds of help such as psychological counseling.

Knowing this piece of information will help me figure out ways to bring more passion into the individual's life, or, and just as important, to find ways the for person to reduce an overly passionate lifestyle.

I could go on with this and share some of the beginning ways to look at this, but I won't do it unless asked to do so.

Last edited by Zarathu; 01-07-2013 at 05:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Zarathu For This Useful Post:
StillOne (03-03-2014)
  #17  
Unread 01-16-2013, 09:39 AM
mrdecc's Avatar
mrdecc mrdecc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South norfolk UK
Posts: 49
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Mars in 9, I am and always have been passionate about the occult sciences, philosophy and religion. I can talk for hours about the above topics. Mars in cap I tend to go more for the traditional aspects of the topics thus traditional astrology, yoga, Jewish kabbalah as opposed to hermetic qabala ( which I have naturally studied also ). Apart from that, nothing gets the passion flowing as strongly except if you factor in adult relations, but that's another kind of passion entirely.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mrdecc For This Useful Post:
StillOne (01-19-2013)
  #18  
Unread 01-19-2013, 01:21 AM
AllanBeau's Avatar
AllanBeau AllanBeau is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Middle of Nowhere Tennessee
Posts: 82
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

I don't know exactly what I am passionate about. People seem to tell me i'm an intense person but I don't see it lol

Scorpio rules over my 3rd house
Pluto in Scorpio trine Sun/Mars in Cancer sextile Moon in Virgo, Neptune in Capricorn.

I also got Saturn and South Node in Scorpio.

I guess I have a passion for daily interactions. I LOVE to talk and hear my own voice. Is that a bad thing? I got Venus in Taurus God gave me a mouth piece to use. I talk to people for hours at a time. A few of my friends text me all day long. Can have endless debates with anybody about pretty much any subject. I'm like an embodiment of the Brain Quest Cards if you remember them. I know every random, useless fact. If its about dead, old knowledge I probably know it. Example my love of Astrology lol and mythology.

Got an uncanny ability to see others motives. And love giving advice to other people. I like to travel and talk to people from all over the globe. One Nation World! I've traveled all over the US and have met people from all different walks of life. I like to listen to other peoples stories. Like the feeling it brings others to listen to them. I don't mind hearing peoples troubles and I don't judge other people....As I know I ain't perfect myself. I have done a lot of messed up things in my life.

I want to experience though my senses. I'm passionate about the simple things in life. Seeing a smile on somebodies face, enjoying a good meal. Spiritual fulfillment and a complete sense of self-worth are important too. It's those moments... when something touches you, something opens up something that you didn't realize before, you feel a longing, you know, that you never felt before - the human experience I'm passionate about. I care deeply about a lot of people in my inner circle.

I'm really not passionate about material pursuits.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AllanBeau For This Useful Post:
StillOne (01-19-2013)
  #19  
Unread 01-19-2013, 01:42 AM
AllanBeau's Avatar
AllanBeau AllanBeau is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Middle of Nowhere Tennessee
Posts: 82
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ82 View Post
An interesting article I came across a while back. Might be of interest?: http://laraowen.com/articles/astrolo...gy-of-passion/

As for me, I have a number of passions (but not always the grounding to act on them! - Neptune). I'm very passionate about politics, activism and social justice (Mars conjunct Pallas in the 8th, Pluto in Libra in the 8th). I'm sure Uranus (my chart ruler) conjunct my MC plays a big part too. I think many many things can indicate passion. It depends what kind of passion we're talking about... (I think I'm also a passionate lover )
I enjoyed that artice very much MJ82. Thanks~
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 03-03-2014, 11:08 AM
Nadineday's Avatar
Nadineday Nadineday is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 57
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
Great I'm glad it's able to be found so many ways!

PM sent.

Savy response, I like that. I have many passions but I am loaded with attributes as well as in the first house.
My passions range from little babies/dancing/Karate/Sex/Music/Psychology/Astrology/ any ology, ha, just kidding.
Furthermore, my 3rd house cusp is which I was just asking myself the other day about it's significance. The reason being, my 2nd house stellium Scorpio/Libra is packed with delineation, rulership ,debilities, trines, squares, mutual receptions and don't forget the conjunct's it's like a party in the house. O.K I am very silly. Seriously though, I neglected the cusp and ventured north. Well with my ruling 2nd house so packed, discovering my values have been a life long journey. I utilize many avenues in order to give meaning to my life and the life I offer in this world.
But in loo of this thread I realize on my 3rd cusp fuels my fire for writing and education.. I love writing and am finally getting cleaner with grammar.

So my passion is life and the journey one goes through within the ebb and flow of existing and transforming in a courageous humbling manner. I detest shallow values and cowardice attitudes that come from pride. But, it is part of the ebb and flow..LIFE.
It makes sense I would think this way with so much ;scorpio: energy flowing along with the rest of the water crew! I realize this thread could be old but oh well it was fun and a good conversation starter, thanks Stillone! What does your name imply or mean, anyway?
__________________
"The Truth is in the Moment"I respond to posts prior to reading other replies, I am learning to trust my abilities and experiences.

Last edited by Nadineday; 03-05-2014 at 09:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nadineday For This Useful Post:
StillOne (03-03-2014)
  #21  
Unread 03-03-2014, 11:49 AM
Nadineday's Avatar
Nadineday Nadineday is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 57
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Quote:
Greybeard says,
Your question is valid.

"But it needs thought, polishing...

A chart might show that the person tends to lean toward things that go Boom
Or is clinging, and thus prone to collecting Barbie dolls."





Or is making people crack up one minute and in the next ponder passion!




How wonderful Greybeard, in my opinion you nailed it, with passion I might add. You broadened my perspective with your differing examples while showing the sacrificial overtone of passion which is implied in your descriptions. I couldn't help but envision these stories and the eyes behind one who participates with the intent you described. Yea passion.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 03-03-2014, 12:32 PM
Nadineday's Avatar
Nadineday Nadineday is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 57
Re: Finding passion in the Natal Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
I have scorpio rising and am very passionate about myself.
Wow, to the chart. Never seen anything quite like it. Although at first I did not notice the outer planets were absent which explains the empty houses.. Either way, your chart is interesting. However I wonder what you mean when you say rising makes you very passionate about yourself.
Is it because the only planet outside your 9th/10th cluster is dispositor of Asc. and 8th with essential dignity.
Very interesting much like your avatar.Is this the force behind your presentation to the world(forum) as a 3 eyed cat named Moog! Hey you don't have three eyes in real life do you? I am in rare form just joking around..
Trying to get know people around here and practice my studies where and when I able..
Thanks for humoring my inquiry! Have a good day. Oh and I know this thread may be old but oh well!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 08-18-2017, 09:15 AM
Feelemji Feelemji is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 2
[TE=StillOne;445089]I've been thinking about this for a bit now. I'm curious to how one may be able to find what one is passionate about, on a deep level, in the birth chart.

Since I'm relatively new to astrology, and don't study as much as I probably should (yet), I haven't read much on this topic.

However, I do know what I'm passionate about. In my chart we can look for which house has Scorpio as the house cusp. Scorpio being the deep, immersive, transformative, emotional, probing, transcending, etc. sign of the zodiac. I believe locating where this sign is in your chart may give you where your deeper or possibly deepest passions lie. Just speculating here...

Of course, the conditions of the ruler(s) Pluto and/or Mars will have a story to tell as well. It is interesting to me, in regards to the topic, that these two planets should be associated with passion. Mars gives the drive (or lack of) to push in the direction and Pluto possibly gives transformation, transcension, power, control, rebirth, etc. which could be important in achieving ones deeper desires.

Now in my chart Scorpio falls in house five. It's true that I'm passionate about fifth house issues! All of them. However, it has also occurred to me that possibly passion could merely be assigned to house five. That is regardless of what sign is there. Similarly house eight may have something to do with all of this as well..? I'm unsure...

I'm merely speculating and trying to generate some discussion on the matter.

What do you think? Care to share what you're passionate about and give examples of how it relates to your chart?[/QUOTE]

Hi all.
What i understand with passion: something you desire to do the most. May it doesnt have any commercial output. Still something for which you can forget your meals.

5th house is best to see the desires of a character or subject.
At the same time how moon is placed and in which sign and constellation also gives a great direction.

You can give me your
DOB
Place
Time of birth
Sex

I shall try to give you a clear picture.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
chart, finding, natal, passion

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.