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Horary Questions on Relational Issues For horary questions about relationships.


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  #1  
Unread 03-25-2020, 08:34 PM
scahm scahm is offline
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Will we reconcile?

Hi everyone!

For context: I had been speaking a guy I met on an app for a few months and we finally met a couple of weeks ago. Everything felt quite romantic and passionate, until he ghosted right after, and I have barely heard from him since. As you can imagine, I've been feeling quite blue.

I've only just started to learn about horary, so thought I'd ask whether we'd reconcile.

The querent's L1 is Venus in Taurus (dignified), in an applying trine to the quesited L7's Mars in Capricorn (exalted). Does this mean that we will reconcile but would require the querent to initiate this? I assume Mars in it's exaltation means that the quesited would have more power in the relationship? Does Venus being in the 8th house mean that the querent will be quite sad as a result of this?

I'm a little bit confused by the applying square between the Moon and Mars too - does this contradict the trine between the two significators?

This is all very new to me, so any insights would be much appreciated! I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
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  #2  
Unread 03-26-2020, 03:53 AM
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Re: Will we reconcile?

I don't see this one working out. But hey, you don't need an involvement with someone who would ghost you like that.

Venus does apply to a nice trine with Mars, but if you consult an ephemeris, Mars actually slips into Aquarius before the aspect perfects, which nullifies it. Then the moon's next aspect is a square to Jupiter (not Mars,) but with Jupiter in its fall, and the moon in this guy's turned 12th house (radix 6th) Jupiter isn't offering you much help.

I can see why this turn of events would be really hard on you. On the other hand, if this is his normal style, it's good that you found it out before you became more emotionally invested in him.

He's not the only fish in the sea.
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  #3  
Unread 03-26-2020, 06:48 AM
scahm scahm is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

Thanks for replying, Waybread - that really is disappointing but I feel better to have an answer than stew in uncertainty.

Do horaries like this provide any further insight into the relationship or would that be something that you'd ask another question for? I assume that the moon in his 12th means that my feelings for him are hidden?

Can we make any assumptions on how he feels based on the L7 aspects? I assume that Mars being in a cadent house means that he's less invested in the outcome than the querent?

Thank you again for responding - every time I feel like I have a slight grasp of interpreting horary, I always learn something new!
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  #4  
Unread 03-26-2020, 01:47 PM
vcms vcms is offline
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I cast a chart for a similar question (“whether he will communicate with me to reconcile”) and similar chart, TaurusVenus-CapricornMars(4th House). Moon rules 10th House. The horary moon is 24° in the 7th House (separated Jupiter), applying directly to Mars, perfecting from his domicile, my sig exalting the Moon, mixed reception three ways.

What’s the difference? Appreciate the education.
“ Moon inside 7th means, from the quesited point of view, that there is awareness of the present situation, and that have been some action regarding it. What kind of action? That we should define looking at the Moon's last aspect. ” square to Mars

If the perfection is true, timing is angular-cardinal, 2.5 units

Last edited by vcms; 03-26-2020 at 02:57 PM.
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  #5  
Unread 03-26-2020, 02:58 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

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Originally Posted by vcms View Post
Hey waybread, I cast a chart for a similar question (“whether he will communicate with me to reconcile”) and similar chart, TaurusVenus-CapricornMars(4th House). Moon rules 10th House. The horary moon is 24° in the 7th House (separated Jupiter), applying directly to Mars, perfecting from his domicile, my sig exalting the Moon, mixed reception three ways.

What’s the difference? Appreciate the education.
“ Moon inside 7th means, from the quesited point of view, that there is awareness of the present situation, and that have been some action regarding it. What kind of action? That we should define looking at the Moon's last aspect. ” square to Mars

If the perfection is true, timing is angular-cardinal, 2.5 units

This would be interesting to see, can you possibly post the chart?
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  #6  
Unread 03-26-2020, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
This would be interesting to see, can you possibly post the chart?
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  #7  
Unread 03-26-2020, 02:55 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

Don't mean to throw any confusion over this, but actually I would have put moon on descendent, therefore in 7th, which would be appropriate as the querent is asking about the 7th house.
It's next contact is actually with Venus, it's a semi-sextile that usually doesn't have any weight, but in this case moon in 7th is now in the natural house of Venus, and Venus in taurus is in the sign of moon's exaltation, so the exchange of energy is facilitated.
Moon in Jupiter's triplicity then trines Jupiter, who is placed in and rules the 3rd of communication, as well as the 5th of romance.
This is all sitting on a very tenuous base, granted.
What does lend a rather gloomy note to all this is sun/Chiron, especially since sun rules the 11th of hopes and wishes. In addition, unpredictable Uranus sits in 7th, and rules the end of the matter.
From what you write I understand that he hasn't closed completely, but still does contact you, is this correct?
So it looks like the contact will continue, but not in the expansive, flowery and loving way you would have liked it to do.
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  #8  
Unread 03-26-2020, 03:22 PM
scahm scahm is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Don't mean to throw any confusion over this, but actually I would have put moon on descendent, therefore in 7th, which would be appropriate as the querent is asking about the 7th house.
It's next contact is actually with Venus, it's a semi-sextile that usually doesn't have any weight, but in this case moon in 7th is now in the natural house of Venus, and Venus in taurus is in the sign of moon's exaltation, so the exchange of energy is facilitated.
Moon in Jupiter's triplicity then trines Jupiter, who is placed in and rules the 3rd of communication, as well as the 5th of romance.
This is all sitting on a very tenuous base, granted.
What does lend a rather gloomy note to all this is sun/Chiron, especially since sun rules the 11th of hopes and wishes. In addition, unpredictable Uranus sits in 7th, and rules the end of the matter.
From what you write I understand that he hasn't closed completely, but still does contact you, is this correct?
So it looks like the contact will continue, but not in the expansive, flowery and loving way you would have liked it to do.
Many thanks for this ElenaJ - the last time we spoke, I had initiated contact and he had responded. The conversation ended there and neither of us have reach out since. Can you see anything within the chart that would indicate how he's feeling?

Last edited by scahm; 03-26-2020 at 03:24 PM.
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  #9  
Unread 03-26-2020, 04:30 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

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Originally Posted by scahm View Post
Many thanks for this ElenaJ - the last time we spoke, I had initiated contact and he had responded. The conversation ended there and neither of us have reach out since. Can you see anything within the chart that would indicate how he's feeling?
After moon glosses through its light contact with Venus, it will do a waltz through Jupiter (communications) Pluto (money and self esteem) finally reaching mars, who is open to moon. It is moon's final aspect. As I wrote about the other, similar, chart, they are open to each other, so he's sitting around passing time waiting.
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  #10  
Unread 03-26-2020, 04:45 PM
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Re: Will we reconcile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
After moon glosses through its light contact with Venus, it will do a waltz through Jupiter (communications) Pluto (money and self esteem) finally reaching mars, who is open to moon. It is moon's final aspect. As I wrote about the other, similar, chart, they are open to each other, so he's sitting around passing time waiting.
This is interesting - as the Moon is the faster, would this mean that communication would occur if the Moon reached out to Mars? Sorry for all the questions, it's all a learning experience for me!
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  #11  
Unread 03-26-2020, 04:06 PM
vcms vcms is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

👍 2.5 units from 25-Mar is Saturday. Will update
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  #12  
Unread 03-26-2020, 05:20 PM
vcms vcms is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

Ah, that’s what I will find interesting as well. Whether in my horary the collecting moon might be a third party, a family member. However, the universe (personal conditions cast for this horary) knows very well I will not be approaching. Clarified by my particular question, the moon (the matter) represents him-initiating.

I never assume the Moon is co-sig of the 1st House/querent, rather the question clarified by rulership

Note: His family wish to this day for us to reunite, why I wonder third-party

Last edited by vcms; 03-29-2020 at 12:47 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 03-26-2020, 05:36 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

"Whether in my horary the collecting moon might be a third party, a family member."

Doesn't look like it. It is moon of the chart, maker of the events and timing, that moves towards him.
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  #14  
Unread 03-28-2020, 09:39 PM
vcms vcms is offline
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So far, nothing. The chart is radical... Venus hour... I don’t get it.


William Lilly wrote: ‘You must understand amongst these Aspects, the Quadrate Aspect is a sign of imperfect emnity; and that the Opposition is an aspect or argument of perfect hatred; which is to be understood thus: A Question is propounded, “Whether two persons at variance may be reconciled?” Admit I find the two Significators representing the two Adversaries, in Square aspect; I may then judge because the aspect is of imperfect hatred, that the matter is not yet so far gone, but there may be hopes of reconciliation betwixt them, the other Significators or Planets a little helping. But if I find the main significators in opposition, it’s then in nature impossible to expect a peace betwixt them till the suit is ended, if it be a suit of Law; untill they have fought, if it be a Challenge.’

So, according to William Lily, when judging *reconciliation* the square aspect is most appropriate. Classically, the square aspect is action-oriented. Moreso the square aspect between Moon-Mars is dexter.

Considering the Moon (the matter) belongs to me but is acting as guest of Mars (“a little helping”), the positions seems reasonable for such a task.

Last edited by vcms; 03-28-2020 at 09:55 PM.
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  #15  
Unread 03-28-2020, 09:59 PM
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Re: Will we reconcile?

There will be contact at some point, his L3/mercury is sitting in your 5th house and will sextile Jupiter your L3 at 25 degrees Pisces, at this point, there will be a full moon also on the Asc/Dsc axis and mars will have separated from Saturn.

Moons angular and all angles are on cardinal so this could be in 3 days/weeks or so.
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  #16  
Unread 03-28-2020, 11:10 PM
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Re: Will we reconcile?

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
There will be contact at some point, his L3/mercury is sitting in your 5th house and will sextile Jupiter your L3 at 25 degrees Pisces, at this point, there will be a full moon also on the Asc/Dsc axis and mars will have separated from Saturn.

Moons angular and all angles are on cardinal so this could be in 3 days/weeks or so.
To be clear Chrysalis, are you referring to my original post or to vcms's?
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Unread 03-29-2020, 12:35 AM
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Re: Will we reconcile?

Hey chrysallis, appreciate your input. Thanks for pointing out the full moon— which pointed to also recognizing that his natal Venus is conjunct the Ascendant of my horary chart.

Scahm and I had similar charts and reconciliation question (though mine is about my ex-fiancé) so I added mine to the thread (after being asked) to compare the minor key differences for archived group learning and added user traffic. Similar judgements, different lives, more intrigue.

@scahm if it’s his L3 applying to our L3, technically he would do the initiating and our L3 Jupiter (ruler of Pisces where Mercury is) would receive the message. What makes an out of orb aspect considerable is whether the sign-aspect completes in both the chart and ephemeris “his L3/mercury is sitting in your 5th house and will sextile Jupiter your L3 at 25 degrees Pisces” if you look at ephemeris http://cafeastrology.com/2020-ephemeris.html (on April 8th) can see that Mercury finally and actually meets Jupiter at 25°, whereas in the horary chart Mercury sits at 7° and Jupiter sits at 23°

@chrysalis now that you’re up to speed on these convergent charts, curious how you calculated 6 units? I’m looking but don’t follow where you came up with this figure

Last edited by vcms; 03-29-2020 at 12:50 AM.
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Unread 03-29-2020, 08:53 AM
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Re: Will we reconcile?

@Scham his L3 applies to your L3 and you receive this aspect, so I'm presuming it will be him. And yes the [approaching] sextile is still valid, as even though you have done the horary which gives you a snapshot of the planets at the time in question, after that the planets will still move.

@vcmsIm not 100% great with timing, but I do try and give it a go sometimes. In both your charts, the moon is angular in Aries, and angles are angular, so this would give a quicker timeframe. The figure six is from the fact that the moon has to go through approx 6 signs to get to the Ascendant, and Mars has to move approx six degrees to separate from Saturn.
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Unread 03-29-2020, 12:37 PM
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Re: Will we reconcile?

Thank you both for your responses - I’ll keep you informed, though I don’t really have any faith that I will at this point.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 12:00 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

To be perfectly sincere, this thread is very confusing for me.
Working with two charts posted by two different people is not easy to follow.
My replies had referred to scahm, and the chart originally posted (19 libra rising).
I've now looked at the second chart posted by vcms (22 libra rising).
This is actually very interesting, since the charts are very similar, to see how the outcome differs.
What I don't understand is how there can be only 3 degrees difference between the ascendents but 3 degrees difference in the moons. How can that happen? The moon isn't as fast as that.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Sorry, just to clarify, so the first chart worked out as predicted, but your (big) chart didn't? Is that right?
That’s right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
What I don't understand is how there can be only 3 degrees difference between the ascendents but 3 degrees difference in the moons. How can that happen? The moon isn't as fast as that.
perhaps this minor difference it due to horary cast from different locations at different times zones

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
My replies had referred to scahm, and the chart originally posted (19 libra rising).
I've now looked at the second chart posted by vcms (22 libra rising).
Correction: my horary chart is 19°, scahm’s is 22°. Your replies have been referring to mine posted on the page, whereas scahm horary image can be found as an attachment with opening the thread.
In spite of mine being the stronger of the two by angular placements, didn’t come to fruition.

For final clarity and to hasten any more confusion of who’s chart is who’s, I am reposting below my 19° horary chart is my own in reference to my own horary question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vcms View Post
I cast a chart for a similar question (“whether he will communicate with me to reconcile”)

Last edited by vcms; 05-07-2020 at 04:12 PM.
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  #22  
Unread 05-07-2020, 04:11 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

Notice the change in houses.
In one moon is in 7th, in the other it is in 6th.
In scahm's chart moon is exactly in the degree of Venus, ascendent ruler, and it is still approaching, bringing something to ascendent.
In vcms' chart the moon has already passed the aspect with Venus and approaches a square to mars. There is a reception, moon in the sign and house of mars, mars in the house of moon. This is not enough perhaps to turn this square into a positive.
Mars is in 4th, end of the matter.
In scham's chart mars is in 3rd of communications.
Also, in the chart with 19 degrees on the ascendent, Neptune now makes contact with the descendent at exactly 19 degrees. I know you didn't included the outer planets, but since they are in the other chart, I think it's valid to consider them.
It looks like a little difference makes a big difference.
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  #23  
Unread 04-01-2020, 05:53 PM
vcms vcms is offline
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Re: Will we reconcile?

Nothing yet either
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Unread 04-01-2020, 07:00 PM
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Re: Will we reconcile?

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Nothing yet either
I haven't heard from my guy either and like I said, I'm starting to really feel like I won't.

Vcms, I don't know the circumstances behind your breakup, but maybe it's best to try and move on - if a person can be callous enough to leave you longing like this, he's not worth it. I know it's easier said than done, but waiting everyday for his response will only end up hurting you in the long run, irregardless of whether or not you hear from him again.
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Unread 04-01-2020, 08:31 PM
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Re: Will we reconcile?

thanks for you considerate words! I’m quite fine and “moved on” romantically much long ago. I am happily single. However for what it’s worth, there are connections based in unconditional love that do not break just because the parties go their separate ways physically. there is a spiritual contract between us, hence our marriage. He’ll communicate with me eventually.

I give an update for the sake of horary interest.

Last edited by vcms; 04-01-2020 at 08:36 PM.
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