Sun in Essential Detriment in Tropical Aquarius

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Understanding the concept of Dignities and Debilities is my latest project.
Then you're in luck - there's a detailed explanation
on

UNDERSTANDING PLANETARY DIGNITY AND DEBILITY :smile:
at
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/dignities.html

The 'benefics' are not constant sources of good fortune
the 'malefics' are not always damaging
nor is it fair to assume that all planets express an equal importance at all times
 

david starling

Well-known member
There's a misconception about Aquarius as an Age-sign that seems somewhat widespread: That it will be a dictatorship ruled by elite, shadowy types, and will require conformity to what they dictate. Not sure where this perception is from, but from what I've seen, Sun Aquarians are individualistic, and allow others to be the same. They also don't like forcing others to follow their agenda. "If it works for you, fine", when it comes to astrology, appears to be an Aquarian attitude. Not seeing that as a "debility".
 

david starling

Well-known member
Oh, great, David: just what we need. Astrological conspiracy theories.

I watch what's posted concerning "what will the Age of Aquarius be like".
At first, in the late 60's, it was supposed to be something amazingly good. And, that it would come on suddenly, and change everything for the better. Now, with those who favor Saturn, "the Greater Malefic" as the only ruler of Aquarius, a more pessimistic attitude prevails.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
There's a misconception about Aquarius as an Age-sign that seems somewhat widespread: That it will be a dictatorship ruled by elite, shadowy types, and will require conformity to what they dictate. Not sure where this perception is from, but from what I've seen, Sun Aquarians are individualistic, and allow others to be the same. They also don't like forcing others to follow their agenda. "If it works for you, fine", when it comes to astrology, appears to be an Aquarian attitude. Not seeing that as a "debility".
It is ludicrous to credit the "If it works for you, fine" attitude SOLELY to "Aquarian suns" :smile:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Any evidence of Essential Detriment regarding Aquarian Suns
that you'd care to share?
it is useful to be aware that DETRIMENT is a traditional term
and is a traditional way of classifying sign placements of planets.

A planet is said to be in DIGNITY when in the sign it rules
in contrast
A planet is said to be in DETRIMENT when in sign OPPOSING sign it rules :smile:
and
As the name implies
DETRIMENT is regarded as an unfortunate placement
A planet in DETRIMENT is traditionally regarded
as being out of harmony with the sign
consequently WEAKENED
and so
in a position of DEBILITY


an example


I know people probably get tired of looking at his chart, but I think Adolf Hitler's chart is a good study of dignity, debility, and mitigation!


https://www.astro.com/tmpd/c8rnfilePOMe2B-u1324102868/astro_2atw_adolf_hitler.66195.47202.png

Using the tropical zodiac he has both Mars and Saturn in detriment. However both do very different things in his chart because of mitigating factors, as JupiterAsc mentioned. Ibn Ezra compares detriment to being antagonistic toward oneself. I use the word self destructive or even self hatred.

Mars is the worse off of the two, out of sect and above the Earth, signifying corruption. He's conjunct his ruler and the Asc ruler, Venus, representing Hitler himself. He's in the 8th place, which isn't exactly helpful. It's pretty easy to see how this could be interpreted as self destructive or corrupt tendencies that endanger the native's body and health.

Saturn is in detriment too, but he's of the sect in favor, in a masculine sign, and in his own bound. Saturn might pose some resistance, but I'd say he'd be helpful despite. I interpret this as some degree of difficulty, but success regardless.

Mars square Saturn is the big thing though. Whatever Saturn was trying to do, Mars utterly ruins. The self destructive danger brings Saturn down. Both planets are in detriment, but I think it's interesting that one brought Hitler up to some extent, but the other was potentially indicative of his downfall and eventual death at his own hands.

It's interesting how two planets in detriment can go in two different directions due to mitigation, especially sect.

the above delineation addresses a well known example of DETRIMENT
however
obviously every chart is individual

and therefore requires individual delineation
in order to highlight the different ways a planet in DETRIMENT
may cause issues for the individual in question

 

david starling

Well-known member
So, Aquarian Suns are weak and antagonistic towards themselves according to Ibn Ezra? Just because the Sun is in the Sign opposite its Domicle? Interesting theory! Haven't seen any evidence of it myself.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The native does not see his astrological affliction as an affliction.

I suppose he/she is too close.

I have Sun, Mars,Jupiter and Neptune all in exile, and
they all seem normal to me.
It's all I've ever known.
keep in mind that the OP is NOT "a Tropical Aquarius"
here's the evidence :smile:
Hi! My Community name is David Starling.

My Sun is at 28 degrees Pisces,

Ascendant, Mercury and "the red planet" all solidly in Pisces;
Moon and Venus in Aquarius; Jupiter in Scorpio
Saturn in Leo,
Uranus in Gemini, Neptune in Libra
and Pluto in Leo.
I am very happy to have found this website!
however clearly IF the OP is considering the option of their SIDEREAL planetary placements
then
their interest may be with regard to a SIDEREAL AQUARIUS sun
EXCEPT THAT a sun at 28 degress PISCES
is a PISCES Sun IRRESPECTIVE of SIDEREAL or TROPICAL considerations
in any event
the OP has made it clear
this thread explores TROPICAL AQUARIUS
and NOT sidereal Aquarius

Since 1967. I'm a Tropicalist,
although I respect Sideralism
--different angle of view of the same thing.
 

david starling

Well-known member
keep in mind that the OP is NOT "a Tropical Aquarius"
here's the evidence :smile:

however clearly IF the OP is considering the option of their SIDEREAL planetary placements
then
their interest may be with regard to a SIDEREAL AQUARIUS sun
EXCEPT THAT a sun at 28 degress PISCES
is a PISCES Sun IRRESPECTIVE of SIDEREAL or TROPICAL considerations
in any event
the OP has made it clear
this thread explores TROPICAL AQUARIUS
and NOT sidereal Aquarius

Whether or not I'm a sidereal Sun Aquarius depends on the ayanamsa. There are many who believe the sidereal Aquarian Age has already begun. In which case the first point of tropical Aries has already crossed over into sidereal Aquarius, and that would make me a late Sun Aquarius in a sidereal Chart.
 
Last edited:

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Whether or not I'm a sidereal Sun Aquarius depends on the ayanamsa.


There are many who believe the sidereal Aquarian Age has already begun. In which case the first point of tropical Aries has already crossed over into sidereal Aquarius, and that would make me an late Sun Aquarius in a sidereal Chart.
Sun in Essential Detriment in TROPICAL Aquarius is thread title topic :smile:
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
Not seeing it, myself. But, with my Moon and Venus in Aquarius, maybe I'm inclined to overlook the expected affliction. Any Aquarian Suns have some insight on the matter?

Hi david starling,

I'm not seeing it either. I believe the Greeks misinterpreted the information they go from Mesopotamian astrologers.

Teucer of Babylon and those before him did not recognize detriment. A planet was either dignified in its own sign, or it wasn't. A planet could be exalted, and in fall in the sign opposite exaltation, but Sun in Aquarius is no different than Sun in Gemini or Scorpio.

I'm fairly certain the Greeks were confused and thought that if a planet is harmed being in the sign opposite its exaltation, then it must be harmed being in the sign opposite its dignity, but there's no evidence of that.

Can someone show me how Carole King was harmed?

attachment.php



She's 75 and still writing songs, still performing in public and on TV and not in the poor-house.

I'm not seeing how her life is a Greek tragedy.

It's true Sun is applying square H8 Taurus Saturn who receives Sun, but I have few hundred Aquarian Sun charts and not seeing where Sun is diminished in any way.
 

Attachments

  • KingCaroleCaroleKing.jpg
    KingCaroleCaroleKing.jpg
    47.7 KB · Views: 363

david starling

Well-known member
Hi david starling,

I'm not seeing it either. I believe the Greeks misinterpreted the information they go from Mesopotamian astrologers.

Teucer of Babylon and those before him did not recognize detriment. A planet was either dignified in its own sign, or it wasn't. A planet could be exalted, and in fall in the sign opposite exaltation, but Sun in Aquarius is no different than Sun in Gemini or Scorpio.

I'm fairly certain the Greeks were confused and thought that if a planet is harmed being in the sign opposite its exaltation, then it must be harmed being in the sign opposite its dignity, but there's no evidence of that.

Can someone show me how Carole King was harmed?

attachment.php



She's 75 and still writing songs, still performing in public and on TV and not in the poor-house.

I'm not seeing how her life is a Greek tragedy.

It's true Sun is applying square H8 Taurus Saturn who receives Sun, but I have few hundred Aquarian Sun charts and not seeing where Sun is diminished in any way.

Not sure if you use the concept of Cazimi, but her Mercury is definitely in that category. I suppose someone who favors the concept of Essential Detriment could say that the Sun/Mercury conjunction lessened the debility. :biggrin:
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
Not sure if you use the concept of Cazimi, but her Mercury is definitely in that category. I suppose someone who favors the concept of Essential Detriment could say that the Sun/Mercury conjunction lessened the debility. :biggrin:

Hi david starling,

Cazimi is an Arabic thing. Rhetorius doesn't use it and neither do early astrologers. For them, a planet is either under Sun's rays or not. If a planet is conjunct Sun, that's joining.

For Cazimi, it's Sun who strengthens the planet, not the planet strengthening Sun.

I simply could not find anyone with an Aquarian Sun who suffered or was a criminal. The closest thing was Jimmy Hoffa (a criminal union boss associated with organized crime who disappeared) and Sharon Tate (Manson murders).

For Sharon Tate, it's not the Aquarian Sun. It's Aquarian Sun in H8 applying trine to retrograde H12 Saturn, Sun inconjunct Ascendant with Sun/Moon inconjunct, and Dragon's Tail and LOF in H8 make things worse. Chart Ruler Venus is in H8 inconjunct Ascendant and Moon and VOC. All that spells disaster.

For Jimmy Hoffa, it's not Aquarian Sun, it's Aquarian Sun in applying square to H4 Moon/Saturn conjunction. Same with Chart Ruler Mercury, who can't see H8. Capricorn Jupiter in H12 is no help. The other benefic Venus is no help, and H12 Capricorn Mars trine Moon/Saturn conjunction is destructive.


If Aquarian Sun was truly a detriment, you'd expect to see more criminals, more ne'er-do-wells and more infamous people, but you see exactly the opposite. Notable people with productive lives.





attachment.php



attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • JimmyHoffa.jpg
    JimmyHoffa.jpg
    47.3 KB · Views: 187
  • SharonTate.jpg
    SharonTate.jpg
    47.4 KB · Views: 185

waybread

Well-known member
If Aquarian Sun was truly a detriment, you'd expect to see more criminals, more ne'er-do-wells and more infamous people, but you see exactly the opposite. Notable people with productive lives.

Right, like Abraham Lincoln, Charles Darwin, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Susan B. Anthony, and Thomas Edison. These people did not work in isolation but they were innovative trail-blazers.
 
Top