combustion, prohibition, translation of light

I am hoping you good horary astrologers can clear up a point of confusion for me.

Lately we saw Saturn, and now Venus, combust the sun in Capricorn; which I would read as the combust planet being in a weakened state. A faster-moving planet (Venus, Mercury, moon) approaching the sun would hit the zone of combustion and then a partile conjunction, barring retrogradation. But the sun is a fairly fast-moving planet on its own. So if the sun perfects a nice trine or sextile with a third planet (currently Mars in Scorpio) while the combust planet is still approaching the sun, do we have a case of prohibition (the combust planet hits the sun first,) a nice cazimi strengthening when the conjunction behcomes exact, or a translation of light if the sun perfects the positive aspect with the third planet first?

This question just came up for me in a relationship horary, where she's Venus, he's Mars, they've split, and she asked whether she and her ex-BF would reunite. Venus applies to a sextile with Mars. Venus is combust and close to an exact conjunction with the sun before it will reach Mars. I think the sun, however, might perfect a sextile with Mars before Venus does.

I get that there are additional chart factors to consider, but I'm unclear whether the sun would be a help or a hindrance with a combust planet. if both the sun and Venus apply to a sextile with the quesited.

Hey, thanks.

waybread said:

I am hoping you good horary astrologers can clear up a point of confusion for me.

Lately we saw Saturn, and now Venus, combust the sun in Capricorn; which I would read as the combust planet being in a weakened state. A faster-moving planet (Venus, Mercury, moon) approaching the sun would hit the zone of combustion and then a partile conjunction, barring retrogradation. But the sun is a fairly fast-moving planet on its own. So if the sun perfects a nice trine or sextile with a third planet (currently Mars in Scorpio) while the combust planet is still approaching the sun, do we have a case of prohibition (the combust planet hits the sun first,) a nice cazimi strengthening when the conjunction behcomes exact, or a translation of light if the sun perfects the positive aspect with the third planet first?

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1. I`m not astrologer myself, but I`m familiar with a horary article, where the querent`s significator is applying to the quesited significator, BUT before the aspect can be perfected, it`s prohibited by an interposing planet.

It`s called abscission and referred to here:

"(...)The applying semi-sextile of Venus to the Sun is turned into an applying conjunction. Furthermore, the closeness of this conjunction places Venus cazimi because she is then within 17' arc of the Sun. This symbolizes the mother's desire at the centre of her question. She wishes to put herself cazimi with the child, to move to the heart of the Sun, and through her love (Venus), tip the scales in his favour as his life (Sun) hangs in the balance (Libra).

Can she succeed? No. The apparent perfection of Venus and the Sun is not possible. If we look in the aspectarian for the time of the Venus-Sun semi-sextile (received conjunction), we find that it is made at 10:47 pm GMT on 29 September. This is several hours after the Sun has made the conjunction with Neptune at 5:01 pm. Such a movement is called abscission, the 'cutting off of light'. What it means is that the Sun (the boy) gets to Neptune, lord of his 8th (death), which therefore cuts him off before Venus (the mother) can reach him by making the semi-sextile (received conjunction) with the Sun. The Sun slips to Neptune and her son slips away (...) ".




The above article is very informative and provided me with answers to many questions:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sickboy.html


　2. prohibition itself is explained here:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/prohibition.html

I get that there are additional chart factors to consider, but I'm unclear whether the sun would be a help or a hindrance with a combust planet. if both the sun and Venus apply to a sextile with the quesited.

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Cazimi planet will be extremely strong, whether to the good or bad of the planet`s natural significations. HOW it can be realized depends on other chart factors.
I know just how good or bad Venus cazimi can be, because my natal Venus is cazimi (7 minutes away from my Sun).

　
　
I can`t judge myself - but I intuit, that if Venus were cazimi, it might change something ABOUT VENUS, not Sun and not Mars. Would it influence the results? I guess the results are in the chart already.

I guess combustion would give no hope to Venus. But maybe cazimi would turn her greatest enemy while combust (e.g. Sun) into a powerful ally while cazimi?


It`s just my intuition and experience, not astrological knowledge

Similarly, in the eye of tornado (cazimi) there`s absolutely no wind = no danger. Outside of it, but in the tornado zone - there`s ultimate destruction (combustion), or - farther away - some minor risk (under beams).

Vanus cazimi would be an alloy of gold (Sun) with copper (Venus).
One needs extremely high temperature (orb of 17 mins?) to bring a metal to a melting point.

An alloy of gold (75%) and copper(25%) is called Red Gold.
Nobody mentions copper anymore and so copper becomes gold both physically and in people`s minds
v




BTW., HAPPY NEW YEAR!

duplicated post

Really helpful, dd-- thanks for your excerpts.

I also posted my question on the Skyscript forum, where a consensus seemed to be that the combustion acts as a prohibition. I just reposted there, asking about cazimi. But I note that cazimi occurs for just a brief period of time, so it might be easy for a perfecting aspect to miss it.

As a 2-for-one strategy, I've been combining traditional and horary methods. Normally I'm a card-carrying modern astrologer, though.

waybread said:

I also posted my question on the Skyscript forum, where a consensus seemed to be that the combustion acts as a prohibition. I just reposted there, asking about cazimi. But I note that cazimi occurs for just a brief period of time, so it might be easy for a perfecting aspect to miss it.

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I`ll search for this thread, for I asked a horary with Venus & Mars as significators yesterday, but in my horary Venus is cazimi, so we`ve been wondering about a very similar question.

As a 2-for-one strategy, I've been combining traditional and horary methods. Normally I'm a card-carrying modern astrologer, though.

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I`m a translator and a pragmatic. Pragmatics applies to any language to the same degree

Different approaches or styles seem not to affect pragmatics in astrology, not to me at least.

Interesting thread !!

Would Venus in the chart in this thread be considered as Cazimi ?

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114499

hmmm it is Cumbust, but not Cazimi, as Venus is 5 degree away from the Sun.

I did quick search and found this.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/combust.html

https://astralvisions.wordpress.com...sunbeams-combust-the-conjunctions-of-the-sun/

Senecar said:

Interesting thread !!

Would Venus in the chart in this thread be considered as Cazimi ?

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114499

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Orb for Cazimi is 17 MINUTES, not degrees
This is why a planet cazimi is considered extremely dignified - rarity of this phenomenon makes it so impotrant and strong, AFAIK.
Very little on this phenomenon is available in the web.

I`ve recently found this interesting article referring to Venus Cazimi:
http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=984



A combust planet is destroyed, "sunburned" so to say, e.g. complete opposite of Cazimi

dd78 said:

Orb for Cazimi is 17 MINUTES, not degrees
This is why a planet cazimi is considered extremely dignified - rarity of this phenomenon makes it so impotrant and strong, AFAIK.
Very little on this phenomenon is available in the web.

I`ve recently found this interesting article referring to Venus Cazimi:
http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=984



A combust planet is destroyed, "sunburned" so to say, e.g. complete opposite of Cazimi

Click to expand...

Yup, learnt something new today, thank you.
Astrology studies seem always better when done with practical charts

And when something crops up as questions or unclear concepts from the practical charts, then further delve into them, and seems very effective.

Thank you for great post

Senecar said:

Yup, learnt something new today, thank you.
Astrology studies seem always better when done with practical charts

And when something crops up as questions or unclear concepts from the practical charts, then further delve into them, and seems very effective.

Thank you for great post

Click to expand...

you`re welcome
I learn many things every day.
Both about astrology and about myself

I can`t fully agree with this:

Senecar said:

"A cazimi Venus, for example, could easily be a nymphomaniac or ‘sex addict’, for example. It could also be a person with near supernatural charm, grace or insight into the world of feelings"

(https://astralvisions.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/cazimi-under-the-sunbeams-combust-the-conjunctions-of-the-sun/)

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But I`m definitely NOT a nymphomaniac with natal Venus Cazimi , Venus is LOVE, not sex.
While sex is readily confused with love by many people, it doesn`t mean there can be anything beyond physical act.

My Venus is in Scorpio, parallel Mars and still she doesn`t make me aberrant/obsessed about sex

In third house she empasizes matters of this house to the extreme:
e.g. my memory, reasoning and intuition are extremely good and so are my language skills and creativity

I can agree with the insight, but there are other things in my chart, which confirm and emphasize all the above. The above and much more


I reffered shortly to my Venus in this thread:

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43920&goto=newpost

dd78 said:

I can`t fully agree with this:



But I`m definitely NOT a nymphomaniac with natal Venus Cazimi , Venus is LOVE, not sex.
While sex is readily confused with love by many people, it doesn`t mean there can be anything beyond physical act.

My Venus is in Scorpio, parallel Mars and still she doesn`t make me aberrant/obsessed about sex

In third house she empasizes matters of this house to the extreme:
e.g. my memory, reasoning and intuition are extremely good and so are my language skills and creativity

I can agree with the insight, but there are other things in my chart, which confirm and emphasize all the above. The above and much more


I reffered shortly to my Venus in this thread:

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43920&goto=newpost

Click to expand...

Your link is not working.

I used see Venus something to do with money and wealth.
But I gather there must be connection between Venus and, Love and Sex.
I will try to read that topic in the near future - should be interesting

dd78 said:

Orb for Cazimi is 17 MINUTES, not degrees
This is why a planet cazimi is considered extremely dignified - rarity of this phenomenon makes it so impotrant and strong, AFAIK.
Very little on this phenomenon is available in the web.

I`ve recently found this interesting article referring to Venus Cazimi:
http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=984



A combust planet is destroyed, "sunburned" so to say, e.g. complete opposite of Cazimi

Click to expand...

I have cast other horary charts last night for other questions, but Venus is still Cumbust near the Sun. So these days, Venus is Cumbust always because it is near the Sun, no matter what horary charts are cast.
I wonder how long this will last.

I was also wondering when Sun is in Aquarius, and its strength is weakened state - and Cumbust effect is not that strong or effective.

Senecar said:

Your link is not working.

I used see Venus something to do with money and wealth.
But I gather there must be connection between Venus and, Love and Sex.
I will try to read that topic in the near future - should be interesting

Click to expand...

sorry, this one works:
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=343992#post343992

Venus is natural ruler of Taurus and Libra, 2nd and 7th houses respectively, so she has a lot to to with both.


Very good resources are available e.g. on Skyscript:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/venus.html

Quite obviously there is connection brtween love and sex, but only in case of romantic love.
People generally love their parents, children, friends, pets, teddy bear etc., but it would be abnormal for them to express this kind of love via sexual activities

dd78 said:

sorry, this one works:
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=343992#post343992

Venus is natural ruler of Taurus and Libra, 2nd and 7th houses respectively, so she has a lot to to with both.


Very good resources are available e.g. on Skyscript:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/venus.html

Quite obviously there is connection brtween love and sex, but only in case of romantic love.
People generally love their parents, children, friends, pets, teddy bear etc., but it would be abnormal for them to express this kind of love via sexual activities

Click to expand...

Thank you for the link - now working

I don't see connection between Venus and Sex after having read the links and some books, it is definitely mental side of Love as you said.

Physical sex would be Mars, wouldn't it? and maybe with Scorpio? And depending on the context, of course.

Senecar said:

I have cast other horary charts last night for other questions, but Venus is still Cumbust near the Sun. So these days, Venus is Cumbust always because it is near the Sun, no matter what horary charts are cast.
I wonder how long this will last.

I was also wondering when Sun is in Aquarius, and its strength is weakened state - and Cumbust effect is not that strong or effective.

Click to expand...

With regards to combustion rulership and exaltation of the planet in its sign will protect the planet from the combustion.

Cazimi also works well with a dignified planet too, but if its not dignified it just acts like a plain old combustion for the cazimi planet.

Chrysalis said:

With regards to combustion rulership and exaltation of the planet in its sign will protect the planet from the combustion.

Cazimi also works well with a dignified planet too, but if its not dignified it just acts like a plain old combustion for the cazimi planet.

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How dignified Venus in Aquarius?

I read Sun is weakened in there. Sun's cumbust effect in Aquarius house should be minimal.

Traditionally?

Venus is not domiciled or exalted in Aquarius. Depending on the degree it may be in its own terms or face. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

waybread said:

Traditionally?

Venus is not domiciled or exalted in Aquarius. Depending on the degree it may be in its own terms or face. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

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Thank you for the link, WB. It is very useful indeed.

From the table Sun is detriment in Aquarius, but Venus keeps Terms and Face (Not exalt as you said), but still she keeps and saves her face?

waybread said:

or a translation of light if the sun perfects the positive aspect with the third planet first?

This question just came up for me in a relationship horary, where she's Venus, he's Mars, they've split, and she asked whether she and her ex-BF would reunite. Venus applies to a sextile with Mars. Venus is combust and close to an exact conjunction with the sun before it will reach Mars. I think the sun, however, might perfect a sextile with Mars before Venus does.

I get that there are additional chart factors to consider, but I'm unclear whether the sun would be a help or a hindrance with a combust planet. if both the sun and Venus apply to a sextile with the quesited.

Hey, thanks.

Click to expand...

translation of light => would it be same as collection of light? Are they different concept?

I feel that Sun's strength in the House and Signs affect the Cazimi or Cumbust effect. Debilitated Sun cannot affect too much near by planets.
When Sun is strong and well dignified, these effects will be powerful and greatest.