Indicators Of Libertarianism In Natal Chart?

Zuri

Well-known member
I'm wondering if there are certain planet/house positions that are associated with libertarianism (small-l, not the Libertarian Party)? I certainly wasn't raised in a libertarian household, but yet I'm the only person in my family with a decided libertarian streak.

I know that my 9th house stellium suggests that I'll take a non-traditional approach to religion, philosophy, and politics. I do so. I also figured that since almost all of my planets are located in the Eastern Hemisphere (which is more individual focused, that this might be an influence on my libertarianism. However, I'm confused because my 9th house cusp (which is in Virgo) suggests that I'll try to keep things traditional. Yet I've got Uranus and Pluto among my 9th house stellium, which suggests that I'll rebel and reform. I've also read that Uranus in the 9th house suggests a socialist mindset, but I'm a staunch capitalist.

Am I looking at the wrong indicators? Also, are there indicators that would distinguish a right-libertarian from a left-libertarian in a natal chart?
 

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miquar

Well-known member
Hi. This is a complicated issue I think, because within any political persuasion you'll find a full spectrum of personalities.

Free enterprise is compatible with Uranus - and indeed much of the advancement in computer technology has been largely due to competition between computer manufacturers.

Mars is of course competitive, and likes a challenge in order to test its courage and potency. Mars in Libra could be seen as the need to compete fairly, and capitalism is supposedly fair in the sense the same financial regulations are meant apply to everyone.

But although the city has the outward appearance of a civility, capitalism is about the survival of the fittest, and so Pluto is also connected with capitalism.

So I would say that your 9th house does reflect your belief in the moral validity of capitalism. though of course another person with the same chart may be against capitalism. In fact though it wouldn't have occurred to me if you hadn't asked the question, I would go so far as to say that someone with this 9th house would be more likely to have a definite view about capitalism one way or the other. Uranian energy can manifest as political extremism, to the left or the right.

Your 9th house cusp suggests that you will scrutinise your beliefs to be sure that they make the world run more efficiently. Virgo doesn't have to be traditional in its values - just practical and grounded. There is a restlessness in Virgo which seeks to improve the way in which things are done. You may see capitalism as a good way to get people to develop their skills and thus play their part in the smooth running of society - all very Virgoan.

Socialism is usually associated more with Neptune. If there's a planet that can pull a person's politics to the left, I'd say its a strong Neptune - perhaps Jupiter could too, and possibly even Venus. I think the Sun and Mars could pull someone to the right because they are concerned with the assertion of individuality in a way that isn't celebrated by left wing politics so obviously as right wing systems. Saturn is about self-sufficiency and so could be seen as more sympathetic to right wing views.

I think Uranus, Pluto, the Moon and Mercury are more essentially neutral in this respect. Even though Pluto is associated with big banking and jungle law, etc, it is a symbol of the survival instincts of the tribe or species, and these could be served by any political system which allows a nation to thrive. Currently we see China building up to become the largest economy in the world. The state capitalism which China has adopted is clearly in the interest of the Nation State of China, while its negative distortion of left wing politics has denied most Chinese people the opportunity to thrive as individual beings. And it could be said that the Western distortion of right wing politics has allowed some people to claim disproportionate freedoms at the expense of others. In other words, I think that Pluto is more about how creatively we express a political view, rather than influencing whether the view is right or left wing.
 

Jason_Harvestdancer

Active member
I would start outside astrology first, in an effort to study the subject. I've found a research paper on libertarian morality that I find is an excellent descriptor of the subject, with comparisons to both liberals and conservative and an examines the separate areas of moral focus. It is the author's position that all three ideologies are moral from their own point of view, because all three have certain things they consider of higher moral consequence, and that those three things are different from each other.

Understanding Libertarian Morality

A good read in my opinion.

Based on that, the libertarian focus on not being tied down to the rules of others would lead me to suspect a stronger than average Uranus in a chart. I think we're in agreement there.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I would say Uranus, and also Mercury, can be potent indicators of libertarian tendencies; in my chart Uranus and Mercury hold the highest elevations in he chart, and Mercury disposits both my 1st and my 10th houses: my life has been very much characterized by libertarian-quality outlooks and actions on my part, even though my sun sign is conservative Taurus and my rising sign is careful Virgo: I really have come to understand not only Uranus but also Mercury, as important libertarian-affinitive indicators when they are strong in a given natal chart.

(PS: I follow whole sign house format; in the OP's reference chart Uranus is posited in the 10th whole sign house, not the 9th house)
 

miquar

Well-known member
Yes I do think Uranus is a very libertarian influence - that wasn't very obvious in my post, probably. I think Uranus could suggest either right-libertarianism or left-libertarianism, though for the reasons I mentioned above.

And yes, 'live-and-let-live' Mercury, too. That's an interesting point.
 

Zuri

Well-known member
I would say Uranus, and also Mercury, can be potent indicators of libertarian tendencies; in my chart Uranus and Mercury hold the highest elevations in he chart, and Mercury disposits both my 1st and my 10th houses: my life has been very much characterized by libertarian-quality outlooks and actions on my part, even though my sun sign is conservative Taurus and my rising sign is careful Virgo: I really have come to understand not only Uranus but also Mercury, as important libertarian-affinitive indicators when they are strong in a given natal chart.

(PS: I follow whole sign house format; in the OP's reference chart Uranus is posited in the 10th whole sign house, not the 9th house)

Thank you guys for the responses!

According to Astrodienst, my dominant planets are Pluto (12.4%), Saturn (12.3%), and the Moon (12.3%) although I have singleton Saturn pulling the rest of my bucket chart. Both my Uranus and Mercury are in Libra too, which I thought was a moderating sign? However, my Uranus and Mercury are located in two of my Top 3 houses (9th and 10th houses).
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi. I don't personally like trying to rate planets in strict order to dominance. We feel different planets more strongly at different times, according to the situations we are in, the synastry we have with the people around us, and the transits and progressions we are experiencing. I also don't think there is a sound formula for calculating such a hierarchy in a given chart even in a general level. But, in any case, it would be worth noting that you have Neptune exactly on your Ascendant/Midheaven midpoint, while the Moon very closely squares it. Pluto is a degree and a half from your Sun/Moon midpoint. I'm assuming the astrodienst software doesn't use midpoints because Neptune didn't figure strongly.

I can't see why the Moon scored so high, given that midpoints don't seem to figure. And the culminating Sun and Mercury perhaps should have been calculated as strong too, especially as the Sun rules the Moon.

But as you can tell, I'm quite down on these kind of things, especially when they use inevitably arbitrary rules and then offer a figure exact to a tenth of a percent! This isn't a criticism of you, of course.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I too do not give too much importance to the various scoring systems, whether Modernist, Traditionalist dignities/debilities, or Vedic shadbala; yes these systems do have some relative value, but other factors must also be taken into account in reaching a totality of indications estimate. I DO give much credence to the concept of grand (ultimate) dispositorship IF one can be found in the given chart...(note: in Zuri's chart there is no grand/ultimate dispositor)
 
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CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Uranus in Scorpio and Pluto in Libra in the 4th/5th houses shown me the risk of conflict with my parents' political beliefs and a difficulty with social norms of American democracy...enhanced by Neptune in Sagittarius (6th) and Mercury in Pisces (9th) for the two planets in between my natal sun and moon conjunction in Aquarius my birth sign in the 8th house, the sign ruled by Uranus is also ruler of Capricorn the descendant sign: produces a center-left person does think outside the norm wanting less governmental regulations and somewhat rejects ethical-moralistic ideologies may conflict with a higher emphasis of freedoms, liberties and rights of the individual.
 

miquar

Well-known member
I thought this interesting quote from The Art Of Stealing Fire, by Liz Greene, was worth throwing into the mix:

'Morality is a highly individual business....If you want to find something in the chart which might tell you about individual morality, I think you must look at the Sun and Venus, as well as Jupiter, the Ascendant and the ninth house....Uranus is not concerned with morality; it is concerned with an efficiently working system, a furthering of the cosmic "plan". That is a kind of morality I suppose, but it is vastly impersonal and bears little relationship to our human fears needs and aspirations'

(page 18)

In the same book Greene points out that both Hitler and Jon McCarthy had Uranus on an angle.

Another idea that caught my attention in the book is that if one identifies oneself as a catalyst for change, then this suggests that whatever changes one catalyses are meant to be, and so personal responsibility is removed. This can then allow unresolved personal issues to contaminate the vision and how one goes about trying to implement it (Hitler and McCarthy excellent examples of this too, I guess).

I can personally relate to this when I look back to my own subversive late teens and twenties, and I have a very strong Uranus in my natal chart.

So perhaps Uranus is simply the need to understand the underlying patterns and to approach the material and emotional/instinctual realms with enough flexibility to allow more of that understanding to improve the way in which we live. Morality would then arise from the way in which the vision is filtered through the individual values of the ego.

Food for thought, anyway...
 

Jesse Booth

Well-known member
I found an article one time that discussed the prominence of the asteroid Pallas in the birth charts of many famous Libertarians. If I find it again, I'll add it to this post.
 
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