Two distinct horary examples

kx5

Well-known member
I'm quite an horary chart enthusiast. That said, I've had great difficulty interpreting horary charts. I'd really be grateful if you guys could give me a hand with these two charts!

So, the first chart is a chart I cast the other day, while experimenting. The second one is a chart with a solid question about me. I'll try to interpret both, and I'm completely open to any correction and/or advice, given that I'm prone to many mistakes. I've read the basics about horary charts, and I'm looking for getting better hands-on knowledge of the technique used for them. As such, I'm using these two charts as examples.

1st chart

This chart is the product of a coordinated experiement. I went to check were my cat was, and then cast the chart with the question "Where is my cat?" in mind.
My cat was near his food bowl, below a small cocoon-like wooden cover we've built around his appliances in general. These appliances (his toys, bowls etc) themselves are found in a small second bathroom, which we tranformed into (obviously) the cat's haven, but that we also kinda use as a storage room. Compared to my location when I cast the chart, this second bathroom is to the west, or rather, northwest.
Here's a list of my observations on the chart:

1) ASC in Sagittarius, 29 degrees and 31 minutes. I take it that this means that, according to the traditional instructions, I am very well aware of my cat's location? Also, given that I'm a student, could it be that Sagittarius indicates that I was in my own bedroom when I cast the chart (with my bedroom being where I keep my school books etc)?
2) 6th house, which I took to be my cat's significator, is in Gemini. But I must admit, I find it hard to believe that my second bathroom-storage, is in fact some form of office or anything. Ruler of the 6th house (Virgo I suppose), is in the 9th house, which further puzzles me. At the same time, the Sun is 19 degrees into the 6th house, loosely opposing the ASC, and also loosely trining Mars.
3) As far as I know, Gemini indicates that I should look southwest, same with Virgo. But my cat lies west, not southwest.
4) Moon BARELY out of the Via Combusta, moving towards the ASC. Opposite Venus, almost EXACTLY conjunct Saturn. I'm entirely unable to interpret this, given that I'm still talking about a cat, whose location I am also aware of.
5) Venus (given that I'm a woman I shall risk considering her a querent's significator) opposition Saturn in Scorpio, trine Pluto and sextile Chiron.

This is as far as I can go by myself.

2nd chart

This is the second horary chart, that I cast today. Here I'm asking the following question, "Will I go study in the UK next year?" Please note that I do not know the answer to this question yet, unlike my first chart.
First of all, I can't find what are the significators. I do believe the querent's significator is the ASC and maybe Venus again, but given that I'm asking about studies, should I take the 9th house into consideration?
Suppose I'm taking the 9th house into consideration, here are my observations again:

1) ASC in 8 degrees Virgo, conjunct Pallas. Does that mean it's early for me to ask? How do you interpret Virgo and Pallas though?
2) Moon NOT in Via Combusta, but opposite Saturn (Saturn RETROGRADE, moving towards the ASC). Does that mean everything will be ridiculously delayed? Moon also trining ASC-Pallas, and moving towards this conjunction. Will I after all these delays finally succeed in getting to where I want?
3) Venus-Juno conjunction, with Venus 29 degrees 48 minutes into Taurus. I believe that this is positive, given that Venus and Taurus go hand in hand. What about Juno though? We've also got a Venus-Jupiter sextile, which definitely is good, but Venus is square the ASC, and conjunct the MC.
4) Sagittarius is absolutely empty.

Having said all of that, I think that there is so much more to read, and as such I still haven't got an actual answer to this. Help is once again very much appreciated. Both my attempts to analyze the charts evidently give incomplete information, hence my asking :/
 

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I'm quite an horary chart enthusiast. That said, I've had great difficulty interpreting horary charts. I'd really be grateful if you guys could give me a hand with these two charts!

So, the first chart is a chart I cast the other day, while experimenting. The second one is a chart with a solid question about me. I'll try to interpret both, and I'm completely open to any correction and/or advice, given that I'm prone to many mistakes. I've read the basics about horary charts, and I'm looking for getting better hands-on knowledge of the technique used for them. As such, I'm using these two charts as examples.

1st chart

This chart is the product of a coordinated experiement. I went to check were my cat was, and then cast the chart with the question "Where is my cat?" in mind.
My cat was near his food bowl, below a small cocoon-like wooden cover we've built around his appliances in general. These appliances (his toys, bowls etc) themselves are found in a small second bathroom, which we tranformed into (obviously) the cat's haven, but that we also kinda use as a storage room. Compared to my location when I cast the chart, this second bathroom is to the west, or rather, northwest.
Here's a list of my observations on the chart:

1) ASC in Sagittarius, 29 degrees and 31 minutes. I take it that this means that, according to the traditional instructions, I am very well aware of my cat's location? Also, given that I'm a student, could it be that Sagittarius indicates that I was in my own bedroom when I cast the chart (with my bedroom being where I keep my school books etc)?
2) 6th house, which I took to be my cat's significator, is in Gemini. But I must admit, I find it hard to believe that my second bathroom-storage, is in fact some form of office or anything. Ruler of the 6th house (Virgo I suppose), is in the 9th house, which further puzzles me. At the same time, the Sun is 19 degrees into the 6th house, loosely opposing the ASC, and also loosely trining Mars.
3) As far as I know, Gemini indicates that I should look southwest, same with Virgo. But my cat lies west, not southwest.
4) Moon BARELY out of the Via Combusta, moving towards the ASC. Opposite Venus, almost EXACTLY conjunct Saturn. I'm entirely unable to interpret this, given that I'm still talking about a cat, whose location I am also aware of.
5) Venus (given that I'm a woman I shall risk considering her a querent's significator) opposition Saturn in Scorpio, trine Pluto and sextile Chiron.

This is as far as I can go by myself.

2nd chart

This is the second horary chart, that I cast today. Here I'm asking the following question, "Will I go study in the UK next year?" Please note that I do not know the answer to this question yet, unlike my first chart.
First of all, I can't find what are the significators. I do believe the querent's significator is the ASC and maybe Venus again, but given that I'm asking about studies, should I take the 9th house into consideration?
Suppose I'm taking the 9th house into consideration, here are my observations again:

1) ASC in 8 degrees Virgo, conjunct Pallas. Does that mean it's early for me to ask? How do you interpret Virgo and Pallas though?
2) Moon NOT in Via Combusta, but opposite Saturn (Saturn RETROGRADE, moving towards the ASC). Does that mean everything will be ridiculously delayed? Moon also trining ASC-Pallas, and moving towards this conjunction. Will I after all these delays finally succeed in getting to where I want?
3) Venus-Juno conjunction, with Venus 29 degrees 48 minutes into Taurus. I believe that this is positive, given that Venus and Taurus go hand in hand. What about Juno though? We've also got a Venus-Jupiter sextile, which definitely is good, but Venus is square the ASC, and conjunct the MC.
4) Sagittarius is absolutely empty.

Having said all of that, I think that there is so much more to read, and as such I still haven't got an actual answer to this. Help is once again very much appreciated. Both my attempts to analyze the charts evidently give incomplete information, hence my asking :/
Keep in mind the Main Rulerships of 9th House http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h9.html


QUOTE

Long distance travel
voyages and journeys that take us to an unfamiliar environment.
Overseas, foreign countries and distant places.


Foreigners, pilgrims and explorers.
Places and situations where we seek guidance and wisdom from others.
Where we reach out into the unknown in search of widening our knowledge and understanding.

Books
learning
wisdom
scholarships
university
and all forms of higher education.

Ramesey notes:
....."all manner of students
such as astrologers, physitians, lawyers
and all students of other good learning altogether"
([AR], bk2. p.108)


The Rising Sign = Virgo

Planet that rules the Rising Sign = Mercury
so
Mercury represents you, the Querent


The Matter can be a person or a thing or an idea
(like a rumor or a dream).
The House, or often more correctly,
the Sign that represents the Matter you're asking about = Taurus
and the Planet that rules that Sign = Venus


So
you are Mercury and Venus represents the Matter :smile:
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Horary astrology is not a game that can played with fancy tricks, nor is it a science that can be experimented on. Trying to do so shows a dire misunderstanding of what horary (and really astrology in general) is and horary will be quick to call you out on it giving you emphasized considerations and confusing signification. This is especially detrimental to new students who don't know any better and will attempt to learn from and take notes on the contorted charts they have erected themselves.

There is nothing wrong with being excited about learning something new, but I encourage you to do so in a more appropriate manner. Read a book, surf the forum, but do be careful of information contained on the internet.

That all being said, let's focus on your second chart because your first one is not appropriate.

The First house and its lord signifies yourself. What information can you gain from that signification?

The Seventh house represents the place we are wishing to travel to, so in this case the UK is going to be shown by the Seventh. Do you think the significators are appropriate for this? Why or why not?

The Ninth house shows travel generally so can be a good indication of whether travel will occur or not. What can you gain from this signification?

What is the Moon doing? What Sign is she in? Who has she separated from? Who is she applying to?
 

kx5

Well-known member
Horary astrology is not a game that can played with fancy tricks, nor is it a science that can be experimented on. Trying to do so shows a dire misunderstanding of what horary (and really astrology in general) is and horary will be quick to call you out on it giving you emphasized considerations and confusing signification. This is especially detrimental to new students who don't know any better and will attempt to learn from and take notes on the contorted charts they have erected themselves.

There is nothing wrong with being excited about learning something new, but I encourage you to do so in a more appropriate manner. Read a book, surf the forum, but do be careful of information contained on the internet.

That all being said, let's focus on your second chart because your first one is not appropriate.

The First house and its lord signifies yourself. What information can you gain from that signification?

The Seventh house represents the place we are wishing to travel to, so in this case the UK is going to be shown by the Seventh. Do you think the significators are appropriate for this? Why or why not?

The Ninth house shows travel generally so can be a good indication of whether travel will occur or not. What can you gain from this signification?

What is the Moon doing? What Sign is she in? Who has she separated from? Who is she applying to?

Hmmm... let's see again....

First house
1) In Virgo
2) Trine Moon
3) Opposite Retrograde Neptune
4) Trine Retrograde Pluto

Seventh house
As far as I know, the 7th house doesn't have to do with desired destinations, only desired people. That is, if you are referring to a person, most of the time any person, you consider the 7th to be their significator. The 9th rules travel in a more general sense? (see below)

1) In Pisces
2) Conjunct Retrograde Neptune and loosely conjunct Retrograde Chiron
3) Trine Sun
4) Loosely trine Retrograde Mercury (which JUPITERASC says is a singificator)
5) Sextile Moon
These aspects are relatively positive, aren't they?

Ninth house
So, I take it that, if I asked the question "Will my grandma from Australia visit me in 10 days?" the 9th house would be a significator, to see whether my grandma's visit will actually occur or not?

Moon
1) In Taurus, 9th house
2) See aspects outlined above plus
3) Opposite Retrograde Saturn
4) Square Lilith
5) Trine Pluto
6) Sextile Chiron

The aspects that have been omitted I consider to be unimportant, please feel free to correct me if they aren't. So, how would you interpret these aspects?
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
kx5 said:
As far as I know, the 7th house doesn't have to do with desired destinations, only desired people.

Well as far as I, Lilly, Sahl, Masah'allah, Bonatti, Jirjis, and Umar know, the Seventh house most definitely represents our destination.

You did a good job of identifying aspects, but you need to focus more on what the significators mean and what they are showing. Why is the Moon in the Ninth house important? Who will she aspect next? What is the Lord of the First doing? How about the Lord of the Seventh? And what about that pesky Lord of the Ninth?

So, I take it that, if I asked the question "Will my grandma from Australia visit me in 10 days?" the 9th house would be a significator, to see whether my grandma's visit will actually occur or not?

Sure. You could see if grandma's significator was with the Lord of the Ninth in some way as indicating her traveling. You might also want to see if her significator aspected your significator to see if she was coming to you, or if her significator aspected the Lord of the Fourth indicating coming to your home.
 

kx5

Well-known member
Well as far as I, Lilly, Sahl, Masah'allah, Bonatti, Jirjis, and Umar know, the Seventh house most definitely represents our destination.

You did a good job of identifying aspects, but you need to focus more on what the significators mean and what they are showing. Why is the Moon in the Ninth house important? Who will she aspect next? What is the Lord of the First doing? How about the Lord of the Seventh? And what about that pesky Lord of the Ninth?

Since 9th house is only about travel, and not about the actual desired destination, it shouldn't be that important? :/ I definitely know that the Moon is coming towards the ASC and aspecting it (trine). Next, the Moon will aspect Venus-Juno (I take it that Venus is a significator then?) and sextile Jupiter-PoF etc.
Retrograde Mercury (ruler of 1st) trine NN, very loose trine DESC-sextile ASC, semi-sextile Jupiter-PoF.
Jupiter (ruler of 7th) see aspects above, plus conjunct PoF, trine retrograde Saturn, trine retrograde Chiron and square NN, opposite Vertex.
Venus (ruler of 9th) conjunct Juno, opposite retrograde Saturn, sextile Jupiter-PoF, square ASC and DESC.
I'm afraid the interpretations are pretty hard for me to imagine for now :/ Please keep giving instructions. What role do retrograde planets play in horaries? Do they represent delays?


Sure. You could see if grandma's significator was with the Lord of the Ninth in some way as indicating her traveling. You might also want to see if her significator aspected your significator to see if she was coming to you, or if her significator aspected the Lord of the Fourth indicating coming to your home.

Hmmm... Then we can use the 9th in this case.
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Hmmm... Then we can use the 9th in this case.

I think it is important to contemplate the distinction between generic travel (I am traveling) and specific travel (I am traveling to a certain place), but it isn't a point that I would repeat within the context of this chart.

Since 9th house is only about travel, and not about the actual desired destination, it shouldn't be that important? :/ I definitely know that the Moon is coming towards the ASC and aspecting it (trine). Next, the Moon will aspect Venus-Juno (I take it that Venus is a significator then?) and sextile Jupiter-PoF etc.

No. The Moon is strong in her exaltation in the Ninth house. This suggests that you feel somewhat entitled to or very much expect to travel. The Moon's next aspect is an opposition to Saturn in Scorpio in the Third.

The follow-up questions to this are: What is Saturn's nature? Is he positive or negative? What houses does he rule? What could he be doing in the Third (to answer this we will need to know what the Third house rules and how Saturn's house rulerships could affect matters of the Third house).

Retrograde Mercury (ruler of 1st) trine NN, very loose trine DESC-sextile ASC, semi-sextile Jupiter-PoF.

Worry not about aspects to the Nodes. Be more concerned with Mercury's retrograde motion into his own dignities and escaping from Combustion. Was there some issue that was recently cleared away that was threatening to keep you from going? Trying to make sense of the Combustion.

Jupiter (ruler of 7th) see aspects above, plus conjunct PoF, trine retrograde Saturn, trine retrograde Chiron and square NN, opposite Vertex.

Jupiter is exalted in the Eleventh, this is good. Jupiter in Cancer seems like an appropriate planet for a country that is surrounded by the ocean.

Now is Jupiter aspecting the Moon or Mercury? Is Jupiter in the house of the querent? Is Mercury in the house of the queisted? Does one planet separate from one and immediately apply to another? Do Jupiter and Mercury both immediately apply to the same planet? Does the Moon apply to a planet who can perfect the matter?

What role do retrograde planets play in horaries? Do they represent delays?

Retrograde significators can indicate changes of mind.
 

kx5

Well-known member
No. The Moon is strong in her exaltation in the Ninth house. This suggests that you feel somewhat entitled to or very much expect to travel. The Moon's next aspect is an opposition to Saturn in Scorpio in the Third.

The follow-up questions to this are: What is Saturn's nature? Is he positive or negative? What houses does he rule? What could he be doing in the Third (to answer this we will need to know what the Third house rules and how Saturn's house rulerships could affect matters of the Third house).

Retrograde Saturn in Scorpio 3rd house.
3rd house: communication, brothers/sisters, neighbours, education etc.
Saturn: karma, time, responsibilities, restrictions, old age, tradition, order etc.
Retrograde Saturn sextile retrograde Pluto (see Scorpio) and trine DESC, retrograde Mercury in Gemini (see 3rd house).
Sun-Mercury in 10th house, Jupiter-PoF in 11th, Pluto in Capricorn and Vertex in Aquarius.

Worry not about aspects to the Nodes. Be more concerned with Mercury's retrograde motion into his own dignities and escaping from Combustion. Was there some issue that was recently cleared away that was threatening to keep you from going? Trying to make sense of the Combustion.

Actually, yes. I've wanted to go study there ever since I was 12, but for a variety of reasons up to now I was convinced that I couldn't go. But five months ago I met someone, and I began to look more into the matter. I've finally concluded, as you said before, that things are easier than what I expected, and now I firmly believe there is a (rather considerable) possibility I will get there eventually.

Jupiter is exalted in the Eleventh, this is good. Jupiter in Cancer seems like an appropriate planet for a country that is surrounded by the ocean.

Now is Jupiter aspecting the Moon or Mercury? Is Jupiter in the house of the querent? Is Mercury in the house of the queisted? Does one planet separate from one and immediately apply to another? Do Jupiter and Mercury both immediately apply to the same planet? Does the Moon apply to a planet who can perfect the matter?

The house of the querent is the 1st, so obviously Jupiter isn't in the 1st, but it's semisquaring the ASC. Mercury not in 7th house again, but there could be a ten-degree wide sextile to the DESC, and a quintile to the ASC. Jupiter semisextile Mercury, and there could be a ten-degree sextile to the Moon as well...
I'm not so certain about their both applying to a planet... There is a Jupiter-Uranus nine-degree square, Mercury-Uranus quintile, and Moon-Uranus semisextile... But I don't think Uranus, or the aspects formed, are at all important, Uranus in Aries 8th can't be a significator... :/

Retrograde significators can indicate changes of mind.

So, with, say, Saturn retrograde, there could have been obstacles, but I changed my mind, or in any way these obstacles faded away? What about Pluto retrograde?
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
3rd house: communication, brothers/sisters, neighbours, education etc.

Yes, so Saturn is somehow effecting these areas, but in my experience it typically relates more to family issues. But this is easier to see when we identify what houses Saturn rules, this lets us know what signification he is carrying with him. So what houses find Capricorn and Aquarius on their cusps and what do those houses mean?

The house of the querent is the 1st, so obviously Jupiter isn't in the 1st, but it's semisquaring the ASC. Mercury not in 7th house again, but there could be a ten-degree wide sextile to the DESC, and a quintile to the ASC. Jupiter semisextile Mercury, and there could be a ten-degree sextile to the Moon as well...

Firstly I would remove all knowledge of the minor aspects. They will not help you in horary and arguably will not assist you in astrology in general as they do not maintain the original aspect philosophy. If you are interested you may read more about that here.

Secondly, aspects of the significator of the querent to the house of the queisted (in this case from Mercury to the Descendant) are not enough to show attainment, but typically only indicate the desire. That being said, this aspect between Mercury and the Descendant (which is a Trine, not a Sextile) is non-existant as it is far too far away and is separating (as Mercury is moving away from it).

So, with, say, Saturn retrograde, there could have been obstacles, but I changed my mind, or in any way these obstacles faded away? What about Pluto retrograde?

Well the Moon's application to Saturn suggests something still looms in the future, so it isn't an obstacle that has been cleared yet. We don't care about Pluto.
 

tikana

Well-known member
Harold,

I think to test out horary, you need to bend the rules and see if the rules work or not. How else can we know?
 

Harold

Well-known member
Harold,

I think to test out horary, you need to bend the rules and see if the rules work or not. How else can we know?

OH NO!

You misunderstand! Horary rules were written down by all-knowing sainted astrologers who lived over a thousand years ago and there is no possible way we can improve on horary astrology - because the rules are the rules, you see....?

All we can do is gaze at the ancient texts, muddled as they are from being translated through three or even four languages, and try to discern what it was that they actually meant :confused:

And this is very important because - the rules being the rules - there is no way we can experiment today to see what works for us in a modern setting, in our modern culture.

Oh no. :wink:
 

tsmall

Premium Member
OH NO!

You misunderstand! Horary rules were written down by all-knowing sainted astrologers who lived over a thousand years ago and there is no possible way we can improve on horary astrology - because the rules are the rules, you see....?

All we can do is gaze at the ancient texts, muddled as they are from being translated through three or even four languages, and try to discern what it was that they actually meant :confused:

And this is very important because - the rules being the rules - there is no way we can experiment today to see what works for us in a modern setting, in our modern culture.

Oh no. :wink:

Wow. Mercury retrograde with Mars in Libra much?

There are no "rules." There are only considerations that were observed by multiple practioners through the ages. If it works and you get it right, that is what matters in horary. If you ***** it up more often than you get it right, well...the past is prologue. There is a reason wheels are shaped like circles and not like squares, and no matter how much sophisticated rubber you put on them, they still work like wheels.
 

tikana

Well-known member
OH NO!

You misunderstand! Horary rules were written down by all-knowing sainted astrologers who lived over a thousand years ago and there is no possible way we can improve on horary astrology - because the rules are the rules, you see....?

All we can do is gaze at the ancient texts, muddled as they are from being translated through three or even four languages, and try to discern what it was that they actually meant :confused:

And this is very important because - the rules being the rules - there is no way we can experiment today to see what works for us in a modern setting, in our modern culture.

Oh no. :wink:

ohh i see what you were saying.. i thought you were talking about something else.. never mind.. ignore.. I do test rules out especially on fast moving charts that I know will get resolved within days.

like yesterday.. my classmate and i were asking about our other classmate if he would join us to watch football game .. we bent a rule and sure enough it was a NO.
 

kx5

Well-known member
As much as I do enjoy learning about astrology even by observing fellow astrologers' discussions, I'd rather we got back to my second horary chart, given that the matter at hand is very important to me, and I'd like to know.

Yes, so Saturn is somehow effecting these areas, but in my experience it typically relates more to family issues. But this is easier to see when we identify what houses Saturn rules, this lets us know what signification he is carrying with him. So what houses find Capricorn and Aquarius on their cusps and what do those houses mean?

The houses ruled by Saturn are the 10th and 11th.
10th: career, vocation, prestige, fame, the father (capricorn)
11th: friends, groups, networks, adoption, the collective (aquarius)

Capricorn --> 5th house: creativity, fun, games, children, romance
Aquarius --> 6th house: health, duty, service, illnesss, work

How could family issues mix in with these?

Firstly I would remove all knowledge of the minor aspects. They will not help you in horary and arguably will not assist you in astrology in general as they do not maintain the original aspect philosophy.

True.


Secondly, aspects of the significator of the querent to the house of the queisted (in this case from Mercury to the Descendant) are not enough to show attainment, but typically only indicate the desire. That being said, this aspect between Mercury and the Descendant (which is a Trine, not a Sextile) is non-existant as it is far too far away and is separating (as Mercury is moving away from it).

That can't be good.

Well the Moon's application to Saturn suggests something still looms in the future, so it isn't an obstacle that has been cleared yet. We don't care about Pluto.

So, is there still a possibility something positive might happen?
 
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Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
kx5 said:
The houses ruled by Saturn are the 10th and 11th.
10th: career, vocation, prestige, fame, the father (capricorn)
11th: friends, groups, networks, adoption, the collective (aquarius)

No, Signs do not equal houses.

Capricorn --> 5th house: creativity, fun, games, children, romance
Aquarius --> 6th house: health, duty, service, illnesss, work

How could family issues mix in with these?

Yes, this is what we are looking for. The houses that Saturn rules in the chart are going to be important because it's going to show us the particular significations he is carrying with him. Saturn is a malefic planet, peregrine where he is and retrograde, so he isn't very happy, and is ruling the Sixth house of illness in the Third. This could play out a couple of different ways. Either a family member could fall ill and you cancel your travel plans to stay with them. It could be you falling ill (but I'm not too keen on this one). Or it could just be a general failure to launch. The retrograde motion suggests that the event has likely happened before (which could give a clue to what it is) and that you can get past it if you are really focused and intent on going (due to Saturn returning to the Moon's managment back to herself, and she can handle it).



Harold,

I think the art of astrology is better served by time spent in study and teaching than in building up strawmen to knock down.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
No, Signs do not equal houses.
EXPLANATORY ASTROLOGICAL HOUSES ARTICLE http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.html


QUOTE

'...In no other area of astrology is there so much mess and confusion
than in the area of the so-called "houses".
There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems
or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart"
into twelve segments of life activity.
In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains, represent general areas of life activity
and are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets.
Originally,
the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable
or meant the same thing



so

A planet in Aries was also a planet in the house of Aries,
so that in effect.
there were no real houses as we know them today....'


i.e.


The house location of any natal planet

is entirely dependent on the house system chosen :smile:

a fact easily verified

by creating a natal chart using a selection of any of the fourteen different house systems
on offer at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page



 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
JUPITERASC,

That article has so many holes in its arguments that I could drive a plane through it and has some very strange cosmological ideas that are not based on any astrological philosophies. It is certainly not the type of thing I would encourage a beginner (or really anyone who could spend time doing something else) to read.

However, to clarify the quotation that led you to posting that. What I meant was Signs do not naturally equate to particular houses. Aries does not naturally equate to the First House. Capricorn does not naturally equate to the Tenth house.
 

kx5

Well-known member
Yes, this is what we are looking for. The houses that Saturn rules in the chart are going to be important because it's going to show us the particular significations he is carrying with him. Saturn is a malefic planet, peregrine where he is and retrograde, so he isn't very happy, and is ruling the Sixth house of illness in the Third. This could play out a couple of different ways. Either a family member could fall ill and you cancel your travel plans to stay with them. It could be you falling ill (but I'm not too keen on this one). Or it could just be a general failure to launch. The retrograde motion suggests that the event has likely happened before (which could give a clue to what it is) and that you can get past it if you are really focused and intent on going (due to Saturn returning to the Moon's managment back to herself, and she can handle it).

I'm afraid that, so far, illness is the last thing I've ever considered to possibly be an obstacle to my studying in England. Plus, I'm generally aware of what happens to my family and myself, and no one has ever had something dangerous enough to deter me from going. So, if I'm supposed to have already encountered this disease and know how to take care of it, it shouldn't have prevented me from leaving. As such, I'm kinda inclined to rule out the possibility of disease.
I believe it's, as you said, a more general failure. And with Saturn leaving the exalted Moon to her own devices later, could we say that there will be many obstacles (even health problems) but I will eventually persevere and will succeed because of my drive?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JUPITERASC,

That article has so many holes in its arguments that I could drive a plane through it and has some very strange cosmological ideas that are not based on any astrological philosophies. It is certainly not the type of thing I would encourage a beginner (or really anyone who could spend time doing something else) to read.....
The EXPLANATORY ASTROLOGICAL HOUSES ARTICLE http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.html
specifically states:


QUOTE

'...

Originally,
the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable
or meant the same thing

so

A planet in Aries was also a planet in the house of Aries,
so that in effect.

there were no real houses as we know them today....'


i.e.

The house location of any natal planet

is entirely dependent on the house system chosen :smile:

a fact easily verified

by creating a natal chart using a selection of any of the fourteen different house systems
on offer at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page
 
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