Going through some bad things, when do things get better?

My thought on this sixth/seventh house stuff is that it's reflected in your work issues (sixth house) and perhaps there's rivalry involved (the coworker attacking you sure sounds like it!)--that would be seventh. Or issues around working partnership, if you do a kind of work that lends itself to partnership. If you do one-on-one client facing work, that would also be represented by the seventh house. (If you are a client to someone doing one-on-one work, that relationship is also seventh house.)

You mentioned sleep problems. That's sixth house: a problem with routine, and with health. Even if you're not otherwise unhealthy, sleep problems are a health issue in themselves.

All of this is coming up right now because the time has come when those issues can't just be background noise. It's gotten too big for that. It has to be dealt with.

Yeah...so it is time for me to really come clean so I can get the help I desperately need.

I've been obsessed with one of my coworkers who I have had very strong feelings for. The obsession became so bad that it got me into studying synastry in the past few months, yeah, that bad. She is married with kids and decades older than me. It got to the point where I was looking stuff up about her just so I can apply astrology here. Things started off on the wrong foot with us and in the first few months, I never even felt anything.

Granted, we all work remote and she is not even in this country right now but will be coming back once COVID things settle. Somehow, a few months in, the feelings became so powerful even though we have never met in person (only video calls).

It got the point where we hated and were irritated by each other but now we are on good terms.

Then, a month ago, a rivalry developed with a teammate who thought I had it easy and spread nasty rumors about me. I never confronted him but it got me worried, I can feel him angling hard for my position. Work also became overwhelming and I did have a tough time sleeping in January.

Now, just the past Monday, I got news that my boss is leaving to start his own business. My boss is the glue that kept my life together at work, best boss I've ever had. He is a former military guy and held down the fort well but to see him leave, given that he felt like a father to me, almost had me on the verge of a serious breakdown. I was next in line for a promotion too with him as the main person promoting me.

So these days, I worry about who the future boss would be as someone who has had evil bosses before.

I also cannot get my freaking coworker off my mind no matter how hard I try. I fantasize about having sex with her even though it will never happen, like something odd about this. I have planned to never meet her in person, ever, even though things have got a lot better with us. It is like I have become obsessed with this lady and I hate it.

So I wonder if it is a transformation journey for me to lose this obsession because never in my life have I had these kinds of strong feelings for a woman. It has been going on for about 3 or so months now, I cannot get her off my mind and it kills me. We work together on so many things and then somehow, I fear one day I hear the news that she is moved off of the project or either I am or whatever.

It's just so heavy because of that.

My goodness, I am on the verge of a major collapse. I feel like a loser for feeling the way I feel but I cannot control my feelings which makes me feel powerless.........

19thLaw, it sounds like you're having a breakdown/breakthrough moment. That IS intense.

I hear some Saturn in this: the boss who was like a father figure (and ex military, too--how Saturnian!), and your concern about the next boss and having had bad ones before (problems with authority figures = the not nice side of Saturn). And you've got a couple of partnership issues going on: the coworker/project partner you've been obsessed with, and the rival (also seventh house).

Sounds like a lot of Plutonian stuff, too. The sexual obsession. The rivalry and nastiness that you can't necessarily see where it's coming from.

And since you have so much twelfth house, the subtle rivalry and nastiness can be related to that, too. Issues that were simmering, that you may not have been aware of, and suddenly they pop out like this and it feels like everything's falling apart... that can be a twelfth house thing.

I can't tell you what to do about all of that, but one thought I have on the sexual obsession is, if you're obsessed with someone, you perceive them as having something you need. What do you see in this woman that you need?

Yeah, it's some heavy stuff, I am still up at night posting haha. So about the woman.

When I first met her on video, I never felt a thing. TBH, I didn't even think she was that beautiful. Her background happens to be Lebanese though and she is westernized too, from Texas. Somehow, I have always found Middle Eastern women to be beautiful. Maybe it is the Kardashians and my slight crush on Kim.

Then growing up in freaking Iowa where we had no diversity, it was always the exoticness factor compared to growing up in say an LA. So maybe a wanting what you cannot have.

I do well with dating, that's the sad part. The thing is though, I draw in women who are white as snow and I am not as interested since I have already dated or been with enough. I don't seem to have any Middle Eastern women or olive skinned ladies with dark hair in my life, haven't interacted with them much often either.

So yeah I have kind of objectified her.

The19thLaw said:

Yeah, it's some heavy stuff, I am still up at night posting haha. So about the woman.

When I first met her on video, I never felt a thing. TBH, I didn't even think she was that beautiful. Her background happens to be Lebanese though and she is westernized too, from Texas. Somehow, I have always found Middle Eastern women to be beautiful. Maybe it is the Kardashians and my slight crush on Kim.

Then growing up in freaking Iowa where we had no diversity, it was always the exoticness factor compared to growing up in say an LA. So maybe a wanting what you cannot have.

Click to expand...

I suspect that's the touchstone statement. Are there other ways you can't have what you want? Not just romantically, I mean. There might be some serious hurt around "I can't have what I want." I'm having a connectivity issue at the moment that keeps your chart from appearing for me, otherwise I'd be looking for what's going on with your Chiron.

That's a first guess, and I may be off base. It's possible that what's really going on for you is a somewhat different issue. It would bear more exploring.

Being this obsessed sounds like it goes deep. It's not just "hey, I like that look, I find it especially attractive." There's a deep emotional need, and deep emotional reaction, going on here. It doesn't sound like you have that strong a reaction to all women with similar looks, so it might bear some more exploring of what you're seeing in this one.

For all you've been worrying about your upcoming transits, I think this is what they're bringing you. Not troubles you didn't already have, but waking up pre-existing problems that you'd managed to bury. The next couple years, when you have Saturn and Uranus poking most of your chart, can be a time when you work with this for healing.

I have been reading the conversation and it dawned on me reading about the boss issues and the exotic woman that these are the parental figures being played out. This makes even more sense with Saturn meaning authority figures.

Wanting what you cannot/did not have.

The thing is, Aquarius has to do with friends and groups. Are you in groups, and/or friends, that you like? Saturn in Aquarius, and all!??

I no doubt have some soul searching to do but the communication with you guys on this thread has been great. In this time, I just feel quite lonely and I am dealing with a lot emotionally, mentally, and in terms of what is out there.

As for my relationship or thoughts around the woman, well, yeah. I think I tend to react more strongly to women who are different from the Pumpkin Pie American girls I grew up around. Something caused me strong reactions from her and woman similar to her background and look, it has happened before too but not to this level.

I thought more about it and then realize a part is because I have not been with a Lebanese lady before compared to a pumpkin spice blonde. But there is definitely something deeper to this that I am going to explore more of, might even journal it a bit.

If the synastry chart is of any help, here it is. I tried to learn Synastry and wonder if she is nearly as obsessed with me as I am with her given that I believe we have some DWs:

https://i.imgur.com/3pnEXNi.png

The19thLaw said:

I no doubt have some soul searching to do but the communication with you guys on this thread has been great. In this time, I just feel quite lonely and I am dealing with a lot emotionally, mentally, and in terms of what is out there.

As for my relationship or thoughts around the woman, well, yeah. I think I tend to react more strongly to women who are different from the Pumpkin Pie American girls I grew up around. Something caused me strong reactions from her and woman similar to her background and look, it has happened before too but not to this level.

I thought more about it and then realize a part is because I have not been with a Lebanese lady before compared to a pumpkin spice blonde. But there is definitely something deeper to this that I am going to explore more of, might even journal it a bit.

If the synastry chart is of any help, here it is. I tried to learn Synastry and wonder if she is nearly as obsessed with me as I am with her given that I believe we have some DWs:

https://i.imgur.com/3pnEXNi.png

Click to expand...

Well, there's your Pluto on her Mars. You MIGHT BE sexually obsessed with her, and she might be a horndog (Mars) for your mysterious (Pluto) ways!

There's your Saturn in Aquarius touching/squaring her Mars in Scorpio. The bad part is that you might stagnate her progress in life. Nothing is 100% for sure in astrology, or life, so take this with a grain of salt! Another manifestation of Saturn square Mars in synastry is you might sexually not be her type.

There is good news, though, your North Node is conjunct her Sun in Sagittarius, by one degree. She might be your karma, and you hers, she might be the one to politely push you towards your spiritual lessons! And your Capricorn planets conjunct her North Node in Capricorn, may mean that you're meant to push her towards her spiritual lessons! This might be a sexually heated, and karmic, relationship, if there was ever one!

People with planets conjunct the North Node can feel a pull towards each other, karmically!

The19thLaw said:

I no doubt have some soul searching to do but the communication with you guys on this thread has been great. In this time, I just feel quite lonely and I am dealing with a lot emotionally, mentally, and in terms of what is out there.

As for my relationship or thoughts around the woman, well, yeah. I think I tend to react more strongly to women who are different from the Pumpkin Pie American girls I grew up around. Something caused me strong reactions from her and woman similar to her background and look, it has happened before too but not to this level.

I thought more about it and then realize a part is because I have not been with a Lebanese lady before compared to a pumpkin spice blonde. But there is definitely something deeper to this that I am going to explore more of, might even journal it a bit.

If the synastry chart is of any help, here it is. I tried to learn Synastry and wonder if she is nearly as obsessed with me as I am with her given that I believe we have some DWs:

https://i.imgur.com/3pnEXNi.png

Click to expand...

I don't think you'll find what you're looking for in synastry. This isn't about her. This isn't about you and her. It's about what's going on, deep down, for you.

It may be about what she represents to you, but that's not the same thing as who she really is, which is what her chart is about. Who she really is has nothing to do with you. What she might think or feel about you has nothing to do with what's going on for you.

Synastry can help explore a relationship that already exists, but you don't have an existing relationship with this woman. She's just an acquaintance who's happened to trigger an obsession in you, just by being there.

So what you need to explore is yourself, and what's going on for you.

Osamenor said:

I don't think you'll find what you're looking for in synastry. This isn't about her. This isn't about you and her. It's about what's going on, deep down, for you.

It may be about what she represents to you, but that's not the same thing as who she really is, which is what her chart is about. Who she really is has nothing to do with you. What she might think or feel about you has nothing to do with what's going on for you.

Synastry can help explore a relationship that already exists, but you don't have an existing relationship with this woman. She's just an acquaintance who's happened to trigger an obsession in you, just by being there.

So what you need to explore is yourself, and what's going on for you.

Click to expand...

I don't want to be too graphic, but based on the synastry, his obsession with her is more physical than um, emotional! Not enough to have any type of relationship!

sentR89day said:

I don't want to be too graphic, but based on the synastry, his obsession with her is more physical than um, emotional! Not enough to have any type of relationship!

Click to expand...

The attraction may be physical, but obsession comes from an emotional place. Being attracted to someone doesn't automatically mean being obsessed with them. When people get obsessed with someone, there's more going on than just attraction. Often it's a compensation for very difficult emotional stuff.

I'm seeing that pressure cooker of Saturn and Uranus moving in to t-square his twelfth house stellium, and I'm hearing a lot of buried emotional pain in what he's telling us. That tells me this is a deep emotional issue, and now it's getting brought to the surface. Which is good, because that's a crucial part of healing, but not comfortable to be going through.

Osamenor said:

The attraction may be physical, but obsession comes from an emotional place. Being attracted to someone doesn't automatically mean being obsessed with them. When people get obsessed with someone, there's more going on than just attraction. Often it's a compensation for very difficult emotional stuff.

I'm seeing that pressure cooker of Saturn and Uranus moving in to t-square his twelfth house stellium, and I'm hearing a lot of buried emotional pain in what he's telling us. That tells me this is a deep emotional issue, and now it's getting brought to the surface. Which is good, because that's a crucial part of healing, but not comfortable to be going through.

Click to expand...

She probably sexually reminds him of someone else, or a group of girls, from his past!

You're right, his obsession is a projection of something else!

The19thLaw said:

I no doubt have some soul searching to do but the communication with you guys on this thread has been great. In this time, I just feel quite lonely and I am dealing with a lot emotionally, mentally, and in terms of what is out there.

As for my relationship or thoughts around the woman, well, yeah. I think I tend to react more strongly to women who are different from the Pumpkin Pie American girls I grew up around. Something caused me strong reactions from her and woman similar to her background and look, it has happened before too but not to this level.

I thought more about it and then realize a part is because I have not been with a Lebanese lady before compared to a pumpkin spice blonde. But there is definitely something deeper to this that I am going to explore more of, might even journal it a bit.

If the synastry chart is of any help, here it is. I tried to learn Synastry and wonder if she is nearly as obsessed with me as I am with her given that I believe we have some DWs:

https://i.imgur.com/3pnEXNi.png

Click to expand...

I think it’s great you are allowing yourself to admit on here how you are currently feeling. Journaling is a great idea. I second Osamenor’s view that the synastry with the exotic woman is not important but the question around what your relationship with your mother was like is more relevant. If that is private, then that’s what the journaling is for.

Also, going back to when I mentioned about walking barefoot on the grass. I can see that would seem quite ‘out there’ for someone new to spirituality. Whatever you choose to do during your ‘me’ time, the point is to allow yourself a break from the stresses of life, in a healthy way of course.

For a day or even a couple of hours, take pressure of yourself and forget about being an employee/son/friend/brother or what other labels/hats you wear and just give yourself a break from wanting or striving for something. Just allow yourself to be you with no pressure or any needs or wants. And breathe a walk on the beach or through the woods, through the park, being around nature, is very therapeutic.

Stop. And breeeeeeathe.

sentR89day said:

Well, there's your Pluto on her Mars. You MIGHT BE sexually obsessed with her, and she might be a horndog (Mars) for your mysterious (Pluto) ways!

There's your Saturn in Aquarius touching/squaring her Mars in Scorpio. The bad part is that you might stagnate her progress in life. Nothing is 100% for sure in astrology, or life, so take this with a grain of salt! Another manifestation of Saturn square Mars in synastry is you might sexually not be her type.

There is good news, though, your North Node is conjunct her Sun in Sagittarius, by one degree. She might be your karma, and you hers, she might be the one to politely push you towards your spiritual lessons! And your Capricorn planets conjunct her North Node in Capricorn, may mean that you're meant to push her towards her spiritual lessons! This might be a sexually heated, and karmic, relationship, if there was ever one!

People with planets conjunct the North Node can feel a pull towards each other, karmically!

Click to expand...

Funny thing is when I did this thing in Astro Seek, it didn't show any Mars-Saturn aspects.

For Pluto-Mars, it showed a Double Whammy as they both aspected each other (Pluto Trine Mars at Zero Degrees). For Mars-Venus it also showed a double whammy with an opposition and a square.

I must ask though, based on your assessment. Is this a one way obsession where I am the one who cannot get her off my mind or is this a two-way one where she likely is having similar feelings?

So I went and explored the relationship more and then I explored some deep pains from my youth, it started to kind of click. My obsession with her and infatuation actually, got worse when I felt like there was competition or someone else she was paying more attention to. In many ways, I do have to work with this woman often directly and our successes are often tied as a result of our work.

I went back and listened to a video recording with a teammate of mines and noticed how she was nicer, livelier, and more jolly around him while around me she was cold up to that point.

Then I dug in deeper and realized how the kinds of women I want are not into men of my look or attracted to them. The kinds of women I want are more into the look of the coworker in the situation. Somehow, that surfaced a deep pain that I have had a tough time dealing with. As a result, issues such as jealousy, bitterness, and anger came up.

Maybe life is telling me to stop comparing so much and comparing myself to others so much, just go for what I want. Instead of being beaten down by the Lebanese girl I am into not being into men of my look and feeling sour that she likes men of a certain look, just be happy if I win her over.

Then it is the Leo pride in my chart saying "well okay so what if you are into her, why go for women who do not see you as worth based on your ethnic appearance?". Then Pluto in my chart goes "oh let's go for women with dark hair and tanned skin that are hot but if they are from cultures that see you as lesser based on your look, you treat every single woman from that culture like trash".

Oh man, I am writing like crazy here but this is a trip for sure.

I need to lose my envy and my need to be seen as her type and her ideal. I need to lose my bitterness that a guy not of my look is seen as her dream man who she will treat well while I get the short end of the stick.

Then I have to make that choice.

Do I pursue women I am not into physically but reward me for the way I look or do I go for the girls I want even if the odds are stacked against me due to culture, prejudice and such.

You think this is all about which women you should or shouldn't pursue? I don't think so.

I think this feeling rejected, and the anger and jealousy and bitterness and hurt and everything coming up, goes deeper than just romantic issues.

Imgur still isn't loading for me, so I can't see your chart and reference it, but do I remember right that you have Chiron somewhere in that packed twelfth house? This whole thing sounds very Chironic. Whatever you blame that Chironic woundedness on, at least initially, is rarely the real heart of the matter.

This calls for really digging into it. If there's ever a time to seek the help of a therapist--and if you don't already have one--seems to me that this is it.

Ukpoohbear said:

I second Osamenor’s view that the synastry with the exotic woman is not important but the question around what your relationship with your mother was like is more relevant.

Click to expand...

I never said this was about his relationship with his mother. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Maybe it neither is nor isn't. This stuff is very complex.

Just like astrology. Which isn't really good for pat answers, despite popular belief.

Osamenor said:

I never said this was about his relationship with his mother. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Maybe it neither is nor isn't. This stuff is very complex.

Just like astrology. Which isn't really good for pat answers, despite popular belief.

Click to expand...

It being about his mother was my input. You said it was more complex was your input.

Thanks for saying it was a ‘pat’ answer, you basically are disagreeing with me. That’s fine. But it’s not a ‘pat’ answer (that’s your opinion only). I actually think I’m spot on

Ukpoohbear said:

It being about his mother was my input. You said it was more complex was your input.

Click to expand...

Got it. The way you worded it, I thought you were saying I had said that.

Ukpoohbear said:

Thanks for saying it was a ‘pat’ answer, you basically are disagreeing with me. That’s fine. But it’s not a ‘pat’ answer (that’s your opinion only). I actually think I’m spot on

Click to expand...

I'm not really disagreeing with you. I don't think you were giving a pat answer. I think you've got a point that this may very well have to do with parental issues. Especially when we've got parent/authority figure Saturn involved.

I was adding an expansion to your statement. That was a "yes and," not a "yes but."

And there are other possibilities too. It might be bigger, even, than parental issues, even if there are some.

What I meant by "pat answer" is the kind of simple answer people tend to think they'l get out of astrology--and I see it again and again in this forum--when they're asking about a complex issue that has no simple answers.