Ultimate battle of wills - Pluto style

bionda

New member
Hi all. This is a strange request, I know, and this is also rather long so my apologies .... but I have been locked in the mother of all battles of will with a man who I can honestly say is the first man I've ever known who I can't read, can't 'beat' and love utterly.

We are both extreme individualists and wilful and unconventional. I'm going to list a whole pile of things below regarding my chart, his, our Pluto aspects etc. We have both literally transformed since meeting each other, the intensity is so fierce that I have had insomnia for a year, have lost 2 stone in weight, am deeply obsessed (waves of love/lust and physical clenching of my heart - extraordinary) and we STILL can barely look at each other or converse at all. It's getting easier now but I am deeply fascinated by this encounter - it has literally changed my character and my life on the absolute base level.

Me
Libra Sun/Mercury/Venus/Uranus & Aries Rising
Mars in 10th House
Sun conjunct Venus
Sun conjunct Pluto
Sun conjunct Mercury
Sun conjunct Uranus
Sun trine Mars
Sun trine MC
Sun trine North Node
Moon conjunct Mars
Mercury conjunct Pluto
Mars conjunct Ascendant
Venus trine Mars
Venus conjunct Uranus
Mars trine Uranus

Sun conjunct Lilith
Venus conjunct Lilith
Uranus conjunct Lilith
Mars trine Lilith
North Node trine Lilith
Chiron opposite Lilith

Him
Scorpio - Sun/Mercury/Mars/Uranus/North Node / Capricorn Ascendant?
Mars in 1st House
Sun conjunct Mars
Sun conjunct Mercury
Sun conjunct Uranus
Sun conjunct North Node
Mars opposite Saturn
Venus conjunct Neptune
Mercury conjunct Uranus
Mercury conjunct North Node
Uranus conjunct North Node

His Sun/Mercury/Mars in my 7th House & Venus in 8th House
My Sun/Pluto in his 8th House

Pluto connections – all tight orbs
My planets to his Pluto:
Sun conjunct Pluto
Venus conjunct Pluto
Mars trine Pluto
Jupiter septile Pluto
Uranus conjunct Pluto
North Node trine Pluto
South Node sextile Pluto
Vertex sextile Pluto
Chiron opposite Pluto
Part of Fortune sextile Pluto
Lilith conjunct Pluto
and...
Juno trine Lilith
Venus sextile Lilith
Neptune sextile Lilith
Moon trine Juno

His planets to my Pluto:
Sun semiquintile Pluto (orb < 1)
Moon trine Pluto (orb < 1)
Mercury semisextile Pluto (tight)
Mars semisquare Pluto (tight orb)
Venus quintile Pluto
Jupiter trine Pluto (tight)
Saturn semisquare Pluto (tight orb)
Neptune quintile Pluto
Chiron inconjunct Pluto

Midpoint
His Pluto = My Sun/Venus (tight)

His planets to mine:
Saturn sextile Venus (tight)
Saturn opposite North Node - karmic?
Saturn conjunct South Node
Saturn trine Vertex
Saturn trine Chiron
Chiron conjunct Ascendant
Venus sextile Sun
Venus sextile Mars
Venus sextile Neptune
Venus sextile North Node
Venus trine South Node
Venus conjunct Vertex
Venus trine Chiron
Venus square Juno
Venus conjunct Part of Fortune
Venus sextile Lilith
Neptune conjunct Vertex

Our biggest problem - two very tight aspects - his Saturn opposite my Mars / Mars square Mars. Our relationship problems perfectly correspond with these two aspects (what I've read) but SURELY the enormous number of positive and powerful aspects should win the day???

Ours is a karmic meeting - absolutely no doubt. I guess what I want is some advice/feedback on whether this level of Pluto influence is rare? Also, I'd like some help because I really don't think I can surrender here - it goes against every fibre of my being and my principles (no matter how fiercely I love him) - so it's like I'm not willing to surrender but I believe he is actually INCAPABLE of surrendering - and the pain just gets worse and worse.
I am not an average Libran with such a powerful dose of both Mars and Pluto in my chart and no water whatsoever. He is my equal - which is what I've sought all my life and I have always foregone relationships until now as I INSIST on an equal. I'm terrified, though, that we're TOO equally matched so we will remain in this agonising impasse - this 'irresistible force meets immoveable object' nightmare that has already gone on for 11 months and is seriously threatening my sanity - albeit whilst making me stronger and better and more mature. It’s an incredible ride – that’s all I can say. This nearly destroyed me – literally – and that’s before we have even become physically intimate. I’m thinking I’d have to be nigh-on suicidal to get involved with him – but the bond is so fierce that it feels like the world itself is pulling us together.
Any advice, information, assistance would be most sincerely appreciated. I’m at a loss of what to do.
 
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starlink

Well-known member
Bionda, it would be so much better if you posted both charts. Just giving us a row of info is not helpful at all. Like this we still have to run those charts on our own computer and the idea is that everyone in this forum can participate and look at the same chart(s). Thank you.
 

starlink

Well-known member
sticky.gif
Sticky: Attaching Chart as a Thumbnail! (
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12)
 
We are all visual people here and need to 'see' charts as Star suggested.

Both natals, plus synastry bi wheel.

When looking at a woman’s chart the type of man she would look for is her sun sign and mars traits, plus 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.
When looking at a mans chart for the type of woman he would look for is his venus and moon sign and then 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.

Although synastry is a valuable tool with astrology it cannot 'make things happen' even if you have the best synastry in the world unfortunately..

If you want to research more into synastry try here
http://cafeastrology.com/astrology_of_relationships.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry/interchartaspects.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry_house_overlays.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastry.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastry-houses.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastryaspects.html
http://www.cosmitec-astrological-compatibility-advice.com/astrology-marriage.html

It's very common for progressed venus onto sun or vice versa to be involved, also the North Node of one person conj second person's sun or moon. Also Vertex is usually involved either natally, by progression or by transit. I use max orb orb 3' between each others planets. To research more on inter-aspects try here. http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry/interchartaspects.html

Here is one of my post's with lots of info http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=13745

Quote by Freedomlover in post here on AW
In reality, no chart is definitely "good" or definitely "bad". As you pointed out, there is really no way of knowing how the energies will manifest. Some charts show a greater possibility for the energies to manifest well. But the same lovely trine that implies comfortable, loving energy can manifest as a feeder line that goes along with the other's abusive behaviour without questioning it. The same lovely sextile that implies harmony together can manifest as the two individuals will make the same bad choices.

There is a higher and a lower energy available in all the aspects. It all depends on free will and each individual's personal state of spiritual growth. In synastry there should be a varied degree of so called 'good and bad' aspects, but in reality I would use the terms, 'easy empathy, and challenging' cos without constant effort, respect, understanding and love and a willingness on both sides to 'work at matters' then no amount of good synastry will explain if a relationship will be successful or not...
 
For future reference and all new members ---
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Our biggest problem - two very tight aspects - his Saturn opposite my Mars / Mars square Mars. Our relationship problems perfectly correspond with these two aspects (what I've read) but SURELY the enormous number of positive and powerful aspects should win the day???

Ours is a karmic meeting - absolutely no doubt. I guess what I want is some advice/feedback on whether this level of Pluto influence is rare? Also, I'd like some help because I really don't think I can surrender here - it goes against every fibre of my being and my principles (no matter how fiercely I love him) - so it's like I'm not willing to surrender but I believe he is actually INCAPABLE of surrendering - and the pain just gets worse and worse. He has a rare triple conjunction - Sun/Mars/Uranus - is a 5 x Scorpion and a Fire Dragon to boot. His birthdate 29 Oct 1976 and mine 1 Oct 1971.

You both have a concentration of planets called 'stelliums' either of which is not that rare or unusual. What is striking is both of you have your sun signs conj Uranus. the max orbs I use is 3' and cos you don't have his time of birth you may only get 'half the picture' here :innocent:

When a sun sign is conjunct a heavyweight planet from Saturn onwards, ie: Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, that sun person automatically becomes and honorary Saturian, Uranian, Neptunian and Plutonian cos the contact with very strong

Now both of these aspects alone are on my list of 'divorce aspects' and yours is also conj venus (very typically a divorce aspect) This suggests that both of you are a bit eccentric, awkward, impatient, impulsive and needs lots of freedom and independence within relationships. Plus both of you have Aquarian moons reinforcing this attitude

Now your mercury/pluto conj
Suspicious that appearances are superficial and masking the "real nitty-gritty", you are always probing beneath the surface to uncover the deeper, hidden aspects of a matter. You are interested in anything secret or mysterious. You have great powers of concentration and a penetrating mind, with an aptitude for research, investigative reporting, or detective work. You are also keenly observant and seem to have "x-ray vision" regarding the inner motivations and intentions of other people. You could make an excellent psychotherapist,
http://cafeastrology.com/natal/mercuryplutoaspects.html

Noticeably, he has venus conj neptune = typical 'rose tinted glasses' and romantic disillusionment.

His pluto in libra is 4' conj your venus and that is prob the fascination. I don't consider the minor aspects ie: semi sextiles, bi quintiles in synastry and lots of orbs in your aspects grid are far too wide for me to consider.

Now your Saturn exactly quincunxs his sun
General notes about Sun-Saturn connections in synastry:
The Sun represents our "inner adult" (the Moon symbolizes our "inner child"), and Saturn represents our inner parent. When Sun meets Saturn in synastry, there can be a "war" not unlike one that can exist when an adult lives with a parent! Management of these interchart aspects requires stepping back from the situation and asking yourselves why you are reacting as you are to each other. The Sun person can easily feel picked on and can resent the "interference" of the Saturn person. The Saturn person can feel unjustly criticized as well.
http://cafeastrology.com/synastry/sun_saturn_aspects.html

In his natal chart he has sun conj mars =wilful, merc conj uranus =argumentative, mars conj uranus =bad temper, sun squ saturn = prob with authority figures and father --- my advice-- be very careful. Scorpio are obsessive, controlling, manipulative, determined, stubborn.

In your chart Libra is restless, procrastinating and indecisive and argumentative. Moon conj mars =bossy mother. Just noticed your sun is also conj Pluto --making you assertive, dogmatic and strongly flavoured scorpion. BUT all your planets are in 6th house of virgo, which suggests an element of worrying, over analysing and restlessness.

You could have the best synastry in the world, but unless you have good communications, are honest with each other about your needs, wishes and desires and 'both' of you want the same things...........then nothing will happen. It cannot make anyone change, or love you more. Some challenging squares, oppositions in synastry can be healthy, and may require one or both of you to grow in some way. Astrological natal charts cannot explain environmental factors, financial handicaps/ restraints and what position you hold in society, neither can it tell you if you are of ‘Royalty’ or beggar.

I am of the belief that people come in and out of our lives for a reason, either we have to teach them something or we have to learn something from them. There is Always an exchange, good or bad.

Good luck with your journey

 

bionda

New member
Thanks so much for this mountain of information. All very true. As we share Sun conj Mercury/Sun conj Uranus/Sun conj Mars(him) and Sun trine Mars (me), despite being obviously very different, we also have a lot in common. In some ways, this is comfortable as these rather intractable aspects of our characters are reflected in each other and therefore understood/supported.

He IS a whopper of a Scorpio, however - and macho/masculine to the hilt with a very large ego. I've come to believe that, being a masculine thinker/assertive type of woman, I need a super-masculine guy in order to feel remotely feminine myself. I dominate in relationships and feel unfulfilled and bitter as I don't actually want to dominate - quite the opposite, if I'm really honest. I can't dominate him, however - this is a first for me and very intoxicating. He is stubborn, callous, wilful and very rigid but it seems to please me in some strange way. I think I admire his uncompromising will - perhaps because I'm only just realising that mine, at base, is the same.

I will investigate further and try to stop worrying. I am overly-analytical, no doubt. With all the air in my chart, all the 6th house, all the Mercury and no water whatsoever, I am heavily intellectual and rather out of touch with my emotions. I am very grateful for my Sun conj Pluto aspect if this makes me Scorpionic in nature. I've avoided Scorpios as a rule due to a particularly vicious older sister (Aries sun/Scorpio rising) and am only just coming to understand that it is the aspects in them that I deny in myself that caused me to fear them somewhat.

He doesn't frighten me, though. Our combined potential is what intimidates. I'm not afraid of a single man on the planet - but I am terrified of the people I love. They're the only ones that can really hurt/destroy you, aren't they? Unfortunately, love is vastly more powerful than me.
"And think not that you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, shall direct your course..."

Thank you so much again - I'm always humbled when someone offers their time and expertise freely.
x
 

bionda

New member
Yes - we are the blueprint for this aspect. Unfortunately I'm the Mars. I have benefited from being forced to slow down/discipline myself but the levels of self-restraint/self-negation I've had to endure... well, it's been intolerable. But it's becoming tolerable now and that's all that matters.

The only way past this endless Mars/Saturn scenario is for Mars to assert itself and accept the consequences. I did this 8 days ago. either we will just drift apart or he will understand what is on the line and finally find the courage to be honest. All I can say is, the truth really does set you free. Telling him what I feel and what it's been like was a profound relief. It's in his court now.
 
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