11th House Jupiter & quality of friendships

TamaraL

Well-known member
Hi all,
I 've been thinking lately about my Jupiter placement, on the 11th House (Taurus cusp) and how it promises "strong, loyal friendships that will last through time". So far the opposite has been the case as time proved that very few people were loyal and honest friends..I am not sure whether I have "real friends" & I am afraid to trust people. I am wondering what other placement(s) might be affecting my Jupiter. Maybe I am very demanding intellectually...

Happy New year & Thanks!
T
 
Last edited:

dr. farr

Well-known member
While house placement of planets is very important, other factors can modify the potential indications of such a placement: dispositor of the house the planet is in, the sign the planet is in, aspects to (or from) the planet, any star connections (close ones) to the planet, the division of the sign (decan, duodenary, etc) the planet is in, any Parallels involving the planet, the sect of the planet, the degree ruler (monomoiria) of the planet, whether the planet might be in a pitted or an elevated degree, are some of the more prominent modifying factors which need to be taken into consideration when coming to a judgement regarding the likely "net" influence (due to its condition) of any planet we might be studying in a particular chart.

In the OP's chart:
-Jupiter is in the 11th house, in a fortunate (for Jupiter) sign, Taurus; being in the 11th house Jupiter is also in its house of joy; also Jupiter is in sect (a diurnal planet above the Earth in a diurnal nativity)
-but Jupiter is conjunct Mars, and-although out of sign, which lessens the intensity of an aspect-square to Venus: notice that Venus is also dispositor of Jupiter, plus that Jupiter is in the monomoiria of Venus (Venus is Jupiter's degree ruler as well as sign dispositor)-so this out of sign but close (3 degrees of perfection) square of Venus to Jupiter, would definitely modify the Jupiter influences regarding 11th house matters.
-Jupiter's influence (regarding 11th house matters) is also modified by Jupiter being in the 3rd decanate of Taurus, which (elementally) is the Capricorn decan-and Jupiter has its Fall in Capricorn
-Jupiter is also in the 12th duodenary of Taurus, which is Aries: so there is an Aries modifying influence upon Jupiter, which strengthens the influence of the Mars conjunction with Jupiter
-Jupiter is in neither a pitted nor elevated degree; star-wise Jupiter is conjunct a star in the constellation of Perseus (Miram), however there is nothing written regarding the indications of this particular star (Miram)
-Jupiter is important in this chart as it is the atmakaraka (most symbolically significant) planet in the chart: Jupiter is strong, certainly, in this chart: however, there are modifying influences upon it (mentioned above) particuarly so regarding the matter of the 11th house vis-a-vis friendships...
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
While house placement of planets is very important, other factors can modify the potential indications of such a placement: dispositor of the house the planet is in, the sign the planet is in, aspects to (or from) the planet, any star connections (close ones) to the planet, the division of the sign (decan, duodenary, etc) the planet is in, any Parallels involving the planet, the sect of the planet, the degree ruler (monomoiria) of the planet, whether the planet might be in a pitted or an elevated degree, are some of the more prominent modifying factors which need to be taken into consideration when coming to a judgement regarding the likely "net" influence (due to its condition) of any planet we might be studying in a particular chart.

In the OP's chart:
-Jupiter is in the 11th house, in a fortunate (for Jupiter) sign, Taurus; being in the 11th house Jupiter is also in its house of joy; also Jupiter is in sect (a diurnal planet above the Earth in a diurnal nativity)
-but Jupiter is conjunct Mars, and-although out of sign, which lessens the intensity of an aspect-square to Venus: notice that Venus is also dispositor of Jupiter, plus that Jupiter is in the monomoiria of Venus (Venus is Jupiter's degree ruler as well as sign dispositor)-so this out of sign but close (3 degrees of perfection) square of Venus to Jupiter, would definitely modify the Jupiter influences regarding 11th house matters.
-Jupiter's influence (regarding 11th house matters) is also modified by Jupiter being in the 3rd decanate of Taurus, which (elementally) is the Capricorn decan-and Jupiter has its Fall in Capricorn
-Jupiter is also in the 12th duodenary of Taurus, which is Aries: so there is an Aries modifying influence upon Jupiter, which strengthens the influence of the Mars conjunction with Jupiter
-Jupiter is in neither a pitted nor elevated degree; star-wise Jupiter is conjunct a star in the constellation of Perseus (Miram), however there is nothing written regarding the indications of this particular star (Miram)
-Jupiter is important in this chart as it is the atmakaraka (most symbolically significant) planet in the chart: Jupiter is strong, certainly, in this chart: however, there are modifying influences upon it (mentioned above) particuarly so regarding the matter of the 11th house vis-a-vis friendships...

Thank you dr. farr,
for your thorough answer, now I can see my Jupiter's behavior more objectively.
 

mdinaz

Well-known member
Can you post a chart that is Placidus instead of whole sign? I've never heard of Jupiter in the 11th promising loyal friends - it does promise a LOT of friends and acquaintances, but nothing about those friends being quality ones. I know several people that have Jupiter in the 11th and they are never wanting for opportunities and friends - on the contrary they sometimes are annoyed by the attention and fawning, and many of these friends are very superficial and are just users. Aspects and signs to Jupiter would indicate that. I am just wondering if it is in the 11th at all and not the 12th, or right on the 12th in Placidus which still for me really isn't an 11th house placement.
 

tsmall

Premium Member
Sure I am posting one, but its still in the 11th...hmm I dislike attention, & prefer solitude rather than superficial parties..but despite my attitude, I seem to meet more double-faced people lately...or perhaps unpredictable

Saturn in Scorpio applying to opposition with natal Jupiter. The only time a "direct" Saturn can apply to a natal planet is by transit. What you really need to look at (to expand on what dr. farr gave you for your natal placements) is that exalted, out of sect Venus disposing Jupiter and Mars. Exalted planets will often have expectations that go beyond what the rest of the chart promises. Transiting Saturn is exposing the flaws in the foundations of the 11th for you, which is probably why you are just noticing something that has likely been a part of your life for a long time. Pay attention now, and look at Venus. Study what she represents in your chart.

The thing Saturn is setting you up for now is the upcoming transit to your natal 6th house Sag Moon. Saturn transits to the lights suck large, because Saturn finds light an anathema. And the reason to consult an astrologer would be to find a way to make the best of what will happen, rather than falling victim to it. What can you do now to make the next transit more benign? Saturn will retrograde in Scorpio and so will hang out there longer than need be...posting signs along the way for you to follow. Trust me, pay particular attention to the retrograde hits he will make from Scorpio to your natal planets.

Check your profected chart (countin the signs/ years from the ASC) as well as your SR chart to see if Saturn is activated this year, and then for 2015.
 

Ebenia

Well-known member
I don't think your problem is Jupiter as much - I think your "problem" (how ever you want to perceive it) is Venus. Even though it is exalted in Pisces, it is still in the 8th house that is quite a gloomy house. Venus is also pretty harshly aspected by both Jupiter and Mars and Moon. And to add to that, it is conjuncting Rahu, which is a very malefic planet.

Jupiter rules your 6th house of enemies and your Venus is square Jupiter. Venus is also the ruler for your 11th house.

I think that with your Venus placement, you are very idealistic about love and people, but when it is in conjunction with Rahu (malefic planet), it can cause problems in all relationships.

So in this life your biggest karmic lessons involve around relationships and how to be in one, how to balance it out, what to expect from people and how to love others. You also need to train your skills in Venusian things, like being diplomatic and considerate of others, how to be social and upkeep a social circle, how to relate to other people on a Venusian way (light, bubbly, charming, loving). People with this aspect need to learn a LOT about relationships and they usually make a lot of wrong choices in their youth, but will usually settle down late 30's or early 40's. The more they mature, their "taste" in people matures and their relationships get better.

When Rahu's obsessive energy is conjunction with Venus and what it does, is that the Venus energy is amplified. Sometimes people with this placement can be quite promiscious and they need a lot of attention from many people and they may feel like one person's attention especially in a relationship is not enough and this can create drama. These people can also get a bit too obsessive about their relationships to the point of smothering their lovers, which leads that their partner wants more space and these people feel like they have been rejected and because they have such deep emotions, they feel so rejected that they may want to cheat in order to get back. So with this energy, you might have a tendency to go to extremes and this extreme behaviour and thought patterns cause extreme actions also in other people around you because what we send out, we get back.

This aspect can also mean that person gets over obsessive over some qualities in a person. Also this can mean that these people attract and are interested in partners that are sexually (or mentally) exciting and dangerous but they other qualities are not compatible with the person at all - but still they might go with them, cause it is so exciting! Their taste in relationships can be a bit "odd" and eccentric. Sometimes women with this aspect are very beautiful and very sexual and like to show that and that definitely attracts the wrong kind of attention and people with not-so-pure intentions. It is also important in relationships to not try to control the relationship with sex and manipulate with sexuality. Because you have some favourable aspects from Saturn to your Venus, it might be that you do not posses these qualities as much, but I'll just put it out there so you'll get an idea of the type of energy that is present.

Sometimes this aspects shows in a way that person really is a loner and they are so scared of relationships and it is so unknown to them that they just cancel themselves out of the game completely. So it tends to be one or the other - completely obsessiveness or completely off.

So this is definitely a position that needs some working and conscious work, but if you do it, you are definitely able to have fulfilling happy relationships.
 
Last edited:

TamaraL

Well-known member
Saturn in Scorpio applying to opposition with natal Jupiter. The only time a "direct" Saturn can apply to a natal planet is by transit. What you really need to look at (to expand on what dr. farr gave you for your natal placements) is that exalted, out of sect Venus disposing Jupiter and Mars. Exalted planets will often have expectations that go beyond what the rest of the chart promises. Transiting Saturn is exposing the flaws in the foundations of the 11th for you, which is probably why you are just noticing something that has likely been a part of your life for a long time. Pay attention now, and look at Venus. Study what she represents in your chart.

The thing Saturn is setting you up for now is the upcoming transit to your natal 6th house Sag Moon. Saturn transits to the lights suck large, because Saturn finds light an anathema. And the reason to consult an astrologer would be to find a way to make the best of what will happen, rather than falling victim to it. What can you do now to make the next transit more benign? Saturn will retrograde in Scorpio and so will hang out there longer than need be...posting signs along the way for you to follow. Trust me, pay particular attention to the retrograde hits he will make from Scorpio to your natal planets.

Check your profected chart (countin the signs/ years from the ASC) as well as your SR chart to see if Saturn is activated this year, and then for 2015.

First of all thank you for your reply, I apologize I haven't check this thread in a while,
maybe my Piscean exalted Venus is very idealistic in the first place..
Transiting Saturn is "exposing" how much coercion- emotional manipulation existed in most of my circle (11th house). I was very patient & very diplomatic with most of my friends...my attitude has changed as I am entering a new phase of maturity & reconsideration of what 'friendship' really means...all this comes with the realization "I don't own anything to anybody" that helped see the guilt others were imposing on me. True friends don't do that. They accept you for who you are. So I am ready for retrograde Saturn because I have faced my fears & I am not afraid anymore...Honestly I don't know how to erect my profected chart but I will check my solar return. Thank you
 
Last edited:

tsmall

Premium Member
First of all thank you for your reply, I apologize I haven't check this thread in a while,
maybe my Piscean exalted Venus is very idealistic in the first place..
Transiting Saturn is "exposing" how much coercion- emotional manipulation existed in most of my circle (11th house). I was very patient & very diplomatic with most of my friends...my attitude has changed as I am entering a new phase of maturity & reconsideration of what 'friendship' really means...all this comes with the realization "I don't own anything to anybody" that helped see the guilts others were imposing on me. True friends don't do that. They accept you for who you are. So I am ready for retrograde Saturn because I have faced my fears & I am not afraid anymore...Honestly I don't know how to erect my profected chart but I will check my solar return. Thank you

It isn't so much as erecting (and dr. farr will tell us to put it a year off, by Pauline profection, which in and of itself is worth exploring) a chart as counting.

Every year of your life the ASC will "profect" into a different sign. Try this thread, and feel free to come back with any questions...

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65448
 

Lin

Well-known member
I haven't read all the replies. However, the first thing I looked for was an aspect between Jupiter and the ruler of the 11th. And right away I saw an issue: Jupiter squares Venus, the ruler of the 11th. This could mean many acquaintances but not many close friends. It could also mean your expectation and definition of a friend may be different from the actual 'capacity' of friendship of the people you choose to be close to.
That's just for openers.
Intrinsically Jupiter would not be unlucky in the 11th for friendship....but always it's the aspects that you must notice to see the real definition.
LIN
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
I haven't read all the replies. However, the first thing I looked for was an aspect between Jupiter and the ruler of the 11th. And right away I saw an issue: Jupiter squares Venus, the ruler of the 11th. This could mean many acquaintances but not many close friends. It could also mean your expectation and definition of a friend may be different from the actual 'capacity' of friendship of the people you choose to be close to.
That's just for openers.
Intrinsically Jupiter would not be unlucky in the 11th for friendship....but always it's the aspects that you must notice to see the real definition.
LIN

Thank you for your post Lin,
Maybe the second interpretation is true:

"your expectation and definition of a friend may be different from the actual 'capacity' of friendship of the people you choose to be close to."
 

Breakthrough

Active member
Hi
I think the root of your trouble is that you should have used the Placidus House system. Most likely, it would place your Jupiter in the 12th house as well as Mars there. Then, Aries will be on the your 11th house cusp and that will make the ruler of the 11th placed in the 12th. Thus, we conclude that you experience your friendship (11th) as a kind of misfortune (12th). These two get interwoven into each other and that might explain your trouble.
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
Hi
I think the root of your trouble is that you should have used the Placidus House system. Most likely, it would place your Jupiter in the 12th house as well as Mars there. Then, Aries will be on the your 11th house cusp and that will make the ruler of the 11th placed in the 12th. Thus, we conclude that you experience your friendship (11th) as a kind of misfortune (12th). These two get interwoven into each other and that might explain your trouble.

Hello Breakthrough & Thank you for your post!
In post no 5 of this thread I have posted a placidus version of my natal chart.Both Jupiter & Mars are still in the 11th house just in an earlier (or later) degree... So it still is a mystery...
(also i Know my accurate birth time from certificates, parents +people who were there)
 

Breakthrough

Active member
Hi all,
I 've been thinking lately about my Jupiter placement, on the 11th House (Taurus cusp) and how it promises "strong, loyal friendships that will last through time". So far the opposite has been the case as time proved that very few people were loyal and honest friends..I am not sure whether I have "real friends" & I am afraid to trust people. I am wondering what other placement(s) might be affecting my Jupiter. Maybe I am very demanding intellectually...

Happy New year & Thanks!
T

Well, taken a look, now it makes more sense to me. To begin with, your whole 11th is afflicted and that's the core of your frienship-related trouble. Aspects matter. Moreover, the ruler of the 11th is in the ultra-secretive 8th house. Therefore, feelings of distrust and secrecy must be pronounced. You can also have secretive liaisons with mysterious/dark/dangerous women (The 11th house ruler Venus in the 8th) with the relationships being xtremely tense!

Your mind is really demanding which can be easily explained by the same 8th house which your Mercury is found in. Bobby Fischer had it in Aquarius in the 8th house and... well, you got the idea - he was demanding. Additionally, you have an exact Mercury (intellect) square Pluto (dominating). A lot of intellectual power! You must have a sharp tongue and a killer instinct in your mind :smile: Quirky and mysterious intelligence. I guess the Fincher's "7" can be one of your favorite movies.

I'd analyse the whole chart but as far as the focus is on friends... How would you describe yourself in terms of friendship? How do you behave as a friend? Afflicted Jupiter usually gives a sense of superiority over others, a feeling of being better in all respects, thriving for respect no matter what. Do you feel this way? Why, in your opinion, are you afraid to trust people? A lot of factors can be contributing to the issue. It's important to figure out the #1 reason.
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
I don't think your problem is Jupiter as much - I think your "problem" (how ever you want to perceive it) is Venus. Even though it is exalted in Pisces, it is still in the 8th house that is quite a gloomy house. Venus is also pretty harshly aspected by both Jupiter and Mars and Moon. And to add to that, it is conjuncting Rahu, which is a very malefic planet.

Jupiter rules your 6th house of enemies and your Venus is square Jupiter. Venus is also the ruler for your 11th house.

I think that with your Venus placement, you are very idealistic about love and people, but when it is in conjunction with Rahu (malefic planet), it can cause problems in all relationships.

So in this life your biggest karmic lessons involve around relationships and how to be in one, how to balance it out, what to expect from people and how to love others. You also need to train your skills in Venusian things, like being diplomatic and considerate of others, how to be social and upkeep a social circle, how to relate to other people on a Venusian way (light, bubbly, charming, loving). People with this aspect need to learn a LOT about relationships and they usually make a lot of wrong choices in their youth, but will usually settle down late 30's or early 40's. The more they mature, their "taste" in people matures and their relationships get better.

When Rahu's obsessive energy is conjunction with Venus and what it does, is that the Venus energy is amplified. Sometimes people with this placement can be quite promiscious and they need a lot of attention from many people and they may feel like one person's attention especially in a relationship is not enough and this can create drama. These people can also get a bit too obsessive about their relationships to the point of smothering their lovers, which leads that their partner wants more space and these people feel like they have been rejected and because they have such deep emotions, they feel so rejected that they may want to cheat in order to get back. So with this energy, you might have a tendency to go to extremes and this extreme behaviour and thought patterns cause extreme actions also in other people around you because what we send out, we get back.

This aspect can also mean that person gets over obsessive over some qualities in a person. Also this can mean that these people attract and are interested in partners that are sexually (or mentally) exciting and dangerous but they other qualities are not compatible with the person at all - but still they might go with them, cause it is so exciting! Their taste in relationships can be a bit "odd" and eccentric. Sometimes women with this aspect are very beautiful and very sexual and like to show that and that definitely attracts the wrong kind of attention and people with not-so-pure intentions. It is also important in relationships to not try to control the relationship with sex and manipulate with sexuality. Because you have some favourable aspects from Saturn to your Venus, it might be that you do not posses these qualities as much, but I'll just put it out there so you'll get an idea of the type of energy that is present.

Sometimes this aspects shows in a way that person really is a loner and they are so scared of relationships and it is so unknown to them that they just cancel themselves out of the game completely. So it tends to be one or the other - completely obsessiveness or completely off.

So this is definitely a position that needs some working and conscious work, but if you do it, you are definitely able to have fulfilling happy relationships.


Thank you Ebenia for your post.I 've just realized I haven't replied & I apologize for my late response. I think you are very right about my Venus, she is very idealistic about people & relationships...but that can be a positive thing as well. I often have this idea that the other person should "deserve me" in relationships (that can sound very conceited) but thats who I am & how I think..."what we sent out, we get back.." this is wise & so true..I think you are right maybe thats the issue but I wasn't able to see it clearly...But I consider myself a loner, not really interested in "smothering my lovers" or having attention its the opposite. I am scared of being "smothered" by others & prefer being alone rather that in a obsessive relationship...but that doesn't mean I cancel myself out of the game..I am eclectic about people :)
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
Well, taken a look, now it makes more sense to me. To begin with, your whole 11th is afflicted and that's the core of your frienship-related trouble. Aspects matter. Moreover, the ruler of the 11th is in the ultra-secretive 8th house. Therefore, feelings of distrust and secrecy must be pronounced. You can also have secretive liaisons with mysterious/dark/dangerous women (The 11th house ruler Venus in the 8th) with the relationships being xtremely tense!

Your mind is really demanding which can be easily explained by the same 8th house which your Mercury is found in. Bobby Fischer had it in Aquarius in the 8th house and... well, you got the idea - he was demanding. Additionally, you have an exact Mercury (intellect) square Pluto (dominating). A lot of intellectual power! You must have a sharp tongue and a killer instinct in your mind :smile: Quirky and mysterious intelligence. I guess the Fincher's "7" can be one of your favorite movies.

I'd analyse the whole chart but as far as the focus is on friends... How would you describe yourself in terms of friendship? How do you behave as a friend? Afflicted Jupiter usually gives a sense of superiority over others, a feeling of being better in all respects, thriving for respect no matter what. Do you feel this way? Why, in your opinion, are you afraid to trust people? A lot of factors can be contributing to the issue. It's important to figure out the #1 reason.

Hello again Breakthrough!
Yes I guess you are giving me a different insight on whats going on between the 8th house & 11th house. My mind is really demanding you are soo right...It is one of the first things sb notices about me. In friendships I don't like to hide behind a facade & I show to people who I really am inside. The problem is that people especially women don't know how to react to that.Its more easy for me to hang out with men as I find them more honest, in touch with themselves and free. I could never co-exist with manipulative women..in the same room...or if I do I am throwing verbal hints about them.I like people who are clean inside (even if it sounds too idealistic) & have dreams, honest goals & use their mind imagination to get ahead. (Thats what I did my whole life) I do have a sharp tongue (my God! you are right) but only a few people have seen that side (really close family +1 or 2 friends) I am trying to be diplomatic at school/work/teams & only when a crisis occurs people will see that side of me (the sharp tongue & leader style) ...I have felt verbal violence at school & a sense of people being threatened by my presence so maybe I am afraid to trust people exactly because of that.But when I trust someone I trust him/her for life... Thanks for the feedback, I lovee "7" I adore it!
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
Afflicted Jupiter usually gives a sense of superiority over others, a feeling of being better in all respects, thriving for respect no matter what. Do you feel this way? Why, in your opinion, are you afraid to trust people? A lot of factors can be contributing to the issue. It's important to figure out the #1 reason.

Yes I forgot to answer that. To be honest yes I have a feeling of being better in certain areas but not in every area obviously...I don't like the word superiority...but I feel " I deserve a lot" because I work harder than others in certain areas. I don't want to be the best in everything but when I have a specific goal in a project I go all the way.I give everything I have. In frienships I 've never felt I am better that anybody, I 've just felt I am different, unusual, more passionate about my work.
 
Top