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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 04-13-2019, 10:58 PM
Kallinike Kallinike is offline
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Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Hi Guys, I hope you are doing great : )

I was wondering if you could help me calculate my Hyleg and Alcoccoden after Bonatti or other? I am still a beginner and cannot come to any conclusion by hand. Unfortunately I do not have a profi software yet : (

If someone is willing to help, I would send him/her my chart. Thanks in advance!
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Last edited by Kallinike; 04-14-2019 at 11:08 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 04-13-2019, 11:16 PM
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petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallinike View Post
Hi Guys, I hope you are doing great : )

I was wondering if you could help me calculate my Hyleg and Alcoccoden after Bonatti or other? I am still a beginner and cannot come to any conclusion by hand. Unfortunately I do not have a profi software yet : (

If someone is willing to help, I would send him/her my chart. Thanks in advance!
Hi,

I can help you find Hyleg/Apheta according to Ptolemy's rules, though he does not use Alcocoden.

You can find free software with traditional and modern primary directions here:
https://sites.google.com/site/tradmorinus/morinus

If you mean a software finding a hyleg for you, I advise against doing that. You want to understand the theory behind the choice.

Last edited by petosiris; 04-13-2019 at 11:28 PM.
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  #3  
Unread 04-14-2019, 10:48 AM
Kallinike Kallinike is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Hello Petosiris, thank you very much. I already understood that my Hyleg is the Moon. Now I am trying to find the Alcoccoden. Unfortunately I cannot find any planet, that forms a Ptolemaic aspect to the Hyleg and has a dignity at its place. Could someone advise me what to do in this case?
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  #4  
Unread 04-14-2019, 10:56 AM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


Hi,

I can help you find Hyleg/Apheta according to Ptolemy's rules, though he does not use Alcocoden.

You can find free software with traditional and modern primary directions here:

https://sites.google.com/site/tradmorinus/morinus
If you mean a software finding a hyleg for you, I advise against doing that.


You want to understand the theory behind the choice.

Exactly - although software has its uses - it also has its limitations
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  #5  
Unread 04-14-2019, 10:58 AM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallinike View Post


Hello Petosiris, thank you very much.

I already understood that my Hyleg is the Moon.
Now I am trying to find the Alcoccoden.

Unfortunately I cannot find any planet, that forms a Ptolemaic aspect to the Hyleg

and has a dignity at its place.
Could someone advise me what to do in this case?
these are instructions
HOW TO ATTACH A CHART
TO YOUR POST ON THE FORUM


MOBILE

1) Once you generate the chart image using your favourite website, copy the image address

2) Upload the image to Imgur using the following URL:


https://imgur.com/upload

3) Once the chart is uploaded to Imgur, click on 'Copy' or 'Embed Post'

4) Paste the Imgur image location to forum post


Quote:
DESKTOP
1) Once you generate the chart image using your favourite website, copy the image address

2) Click on the Attachment icon (if you don't see it, select 'Advanced' posting first)

3) New window will open, paste the image address, click Upload button, close the window


if that is for some reason not possible
then
another option is, after creating the natal chart
then save the chart to your desktop
then when on the thread click to edit your post
then scroll down to the Attach Files box
then click on Manage Attachments
and follow the instructions on the screen to upload your chart that way


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #6  
Unread 04-14-2019, 11:09 AM
Kallinike Kallinike is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Guys, thank you very much for the help. Now I added the chart to my post as recommended.
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  #7  
Unread 04-14-2019, 04:51 PM
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petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallinike View Post
Hello Petosiris, thank you very much. I already understood that my Hyleg is the Moon. Now I am trying to find the Alcoccoden. Unfortunately I cannot find any planet, that forms a Ptolemaic aspect to the Hyleg and has a dignity at its place. Could someone advise me what to do in this case?
Is the time given by birth certificate?

By Ptolemy's rules, the Hyleg has to be in 1st, 7th, 9th, 10th or 11th house, so in your chart, it has to be the Ascendant or the Lot of Fortune, and most likely the latter since it takes precedence.

Ptolemy does not use Alcocoden, so another member specializing in Medieval may reply about it. It really depends on whose method you want to use.
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  #8  
Unread 04-14-2019, 06:17 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallinike View Post

I already understood that my Hyleg is the Moon.
petosiris has mentioned Ptolemys rules

that Moon being in 2nd eliminates it as hyleg
so
According to PTOLEMYS RULES

your hyleg must then be either Ascendant
or
Lot of Fortune
and petosiris is likely to assist you with determining which of those
according to that particular set of rules
is the Hyleg
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #9  
Unread 04-14-2019, 06:18 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


Is the time given by birth certificate?

By Ptolemy's rules, the Hyleg has to be in 1st, 7th, 9th, 10th or 11th house, so in your chart, it has to be the Ascendant or the Lot of Fortune, and most likely the latter since it takes precedence.

Ptolemy does not use Alcocoden, so another member specializing in Medieval may reply about it. It really depends on whose method you want to use.
so now confirmation is required as to whether the time given is by birth certificate or not
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #10  
Unread 04-14-2019, 06:23 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

meanwhile BONATTI uses what he terms the ALMUDEBIT

The Almudebit is the planet with the most dignity in the following places:

(a) The degrees of the four angles.

(b) The Rulers of the four angles.

(c) The Triplicity Rulers of the four angles.

(d) The Sun.

(e) The Moon.

(f) Ruler of the Sun sign.

(g) Ruler of the Moon sign.

(h) The Part of Fortune.

(i) the Ruler of the Part of Fortune.

(j) The Ruler of the conjunction (New Moon before birth)
or Prevention (Full Moon before birth)
whichever lunation occurred prior to birth.

The planet or planets that have the most dignity by

Ruler = 5

Exaltation = 4

Triplicity = 3

Term = 2

and

Face = 1
was called by Bonatti the Almudebit.

The Differentia grading was then determined
by numerous considerations of the Almudebit
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #11  
Unread 04-15-2019, 05:22 PM
Kallinike Kallinike is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Hi Guys, in my country the time of birth is not written in the birth certificate. The time in the chart is according to 3-4 rectifications.

A professional astrologist wrote me that the Moon is the Hyleg, according to the method of Bonatti and not Ptolemys. He also mentioned that my Alcoccoden is Venus.
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  #12  
Unread 04-15-2019, 07:03 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallinike View Post

Hi Guys, in my country the time of birth is not written in the birth certificate.

The time in the chart is according to 3-4 rectifications.


A professional astrologist wrote me that
the Moon is the Hyleg, according to the method of Bonatti
and not Ptolemys. He also mentioned that my Alcoccoden is Venus.
astrologers all have different opinions
it is useful to study the method
and decide for oneself
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #13  
Unread 04-15-2019, 07:28 PM
Kallinike Kallinike is offline
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Re: Calculating Hyleg and Alcoccoden

Yes, this is what I am trying to do : )
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