ASTROLOGY of the 2016 US elections

OK, folks-- I hope this flies. This is not a chat thread, but a mundane astrology thread. Ideally it is for mundane predictions of who will win the 2016 US presidential election.

Some of you have posted good astrological analyses on chat threads, where they tend to get buried in the midst of non-astrological "materials." If so, perhaps you could re-post or link some of your posts here.

For those of you who prefer non-astrological discussions, there are 3 or 4 active chat threads going on now.

I'll attempt a beginning, by noting that I use an 8:02 am birth time for Clinton. This is a Rodden DD rating: her actual birth time is unknown. Other astrologers prefer different rectified birth times.

I also think whole signs houses work better for Clinton than Placidus, but I look at both. She was just diagnosed with pneumonia! but this shouldn't disqualify her from running. Apparently she's now on antibiotics, and should be back and campaigning soon.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/12/us/politics/hillary-clinton-campaign-pneumonia.html

The lungs are a 3rd house or Gemini matter. Looking at transits, there is nothing in the sky in Gemini just now, but in whole signs houses Clinton's third house is Capricorn. Transiting moon (today) and Pluto are there currently, with Pluto making an exact quincunx to Clinton's natal Mars-Pluto partile conjunction in Leo. Mars is associated with infections.

A quincunx supposedly typifies a problem that is irksome, but not serious enough to get up and DO something about it.

Mercury also rules the lungs and coughing, and Clinton's Mercury in Scorpio exactly squares her natal Mars, so she is probably naturally susceptible to respiratory problems. She is known to experience hay fever, and apparently her recent periods of coughing are resulting from it.

The 8:02 chart puts Clinton's moon at 22 Pisces, which degree today was hit exactly by a retrograde transiting Mercury in Virgo.

However, according to Ridder-Fitzpatrick's Handbook of Medical Astrology, the early degrees of Gemini rule the various parts of the lungs, and Clinton has no planets in them.

So while the foregoing is an analysis of Clinton as a "patient," it is in timing various life events astrologically that we can start to build a picture of her best-fit rectified chart. It is then useful in predictions of the election outcome as a whole.

I would love to see (or review, if previously posted and linked or quoted here) your astrological analyses.

I've posted some other charts that may be of interest, as they are used for predicting election outcomes: the US Sibly chart, often taken as the "birth date" of the US; and the "birth" date of the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence (Sibly chart) makes no mention of a president: that had yet to be worked out in what became the Constitution.

I've also posted Donald Trump's chart, which has a Rodden AA rating.

If you work with asteroids:

asteroid Hillary is #3130.

There is no asteroid Donald or its cognate Donal. No asteroid Trump, Drumpf, or anything close. For what it's worth, the closest I could come up with was asteroid Donn, #4689.

asteroid Ohio (an important swing state) is #439

I'm not kidding-- there is now an asteroid Billary, #228136.

Asteroid William is #270373.

Asteroid #916 is America.

Astrodienst has an ephemeris for all of these asteroids, and you can input them on the bottom of the chart construction page.

You can have fun with this. On election day, November 8, 2016 transiting asteroid Hillary falls right at the midpoint of the Sibly chart's sun and part of fortune. They're close, only 7 degrees apart.

Attached are Hillary's birth charts for Chicago and New York using 8:02 am, CST, birth time.

The square of the Mars/Saturn midpoint with Pluto on it to the birth Asc is probably tied to this perception of her that she acknowledges. Because it is natal it stays with her to some extent where ever she may be.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/08/politics/hillary-clinton-humans-of-new-york/

Hillary Clinton talks to Humans of New York: 'I can be perceived as aloof or cold'

I have a whole series of charts (14) for the 8:02 am time located to NYC where she will probably be on election night as that is where her campaign headquarters is located.

Some of them are: Solar return, progressed solar return, progressed anlunar, natal demi-lunar, progressed natal demi-lunar (all with progressed natal and natal around them) and natal and progressed natal with transits. Solar and lunar returns and their progressions are precession corrected and presented in the Tropical zodiac.

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Bob, thanks. Do you still feel you're having better "hits" with the 2:18 birth time? I imagine that some of the planet-to-planet stuff, including midpoints, would remain the same.

For anyone unsure of how mundane astrology works, here is a good article with a crib sheet: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ingresses.html This gets us beyond looking at individual charts, and looking at charts of nations.

I will have to apply the time to the same events I used for the 2:18 time before I make a decision.

My site interface is completely strange. I think my account may have been hacked. Have the Mods lost control?

Asteroid Hillary will be in conjunct with Sun of US during election day. Natal Hillary in US chart is in Gemini 12/7th house will be in opposition to Tran Saturn (responsibility).

Uranus transit Hillary's 6th house leads to sudden/unexpected health problems.

waybread said:

Bob, thanks. Do you still feel you're having better "hits" with the 2:18 birth time? I imagine that some of the planet-to-planet stuff, including midpoints, would remain the same.

For anyone unsure of how mundane astrology works, here is a good article with a crib sheet: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ingresses.html This gets us beyond looking at individual charts, and looking at charts of nations.

Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this information Waybread, I think I would really like mundane astrology. It fits with my avid interest in politics and history.

Julia

Judging from her physique and stature, Scorpio rising fits the bill, i.e. 8am.

theV said:

Asteroid Hillary will be in conjunct with Sun of US during election day. Natal Hillary in US chart is in Gemini 12/7th house will be in opposition to Tran Saturn (responsibility).

Uranus transit Hillary's 6th house leads to sudden/unexpected health problems.

Click to expand...

Asteroid Hillary is doing some interesting stuff.

We need to be a bit careful about the 6th house. As the house of illness it is so general that it doesn't figure as such in medical astrology. Each sign, planet, and house in medical astrology rules a specific part of the body or type of illness. The 6th house, for example, rules the intestines; but Mercury/Gemini/3rd house rule the lungs.

Using the 9:02 EST birth chart to do the precession corrected demi-solar return and from that the precession corrected anlunar which I progressed to 9:30 am, EDT, in New York yielded lunar return Saturn exactly square the MC, her secondary progressed Mars on the MC and natal (not shown) and secondary progressed Saturn/Pluto midpoints on the Zenith (an exact 90° square to the Asc). The involvement of the Saturn/Pluto midpoint has me wondering if this episode had it's roots in a chronic condition exacerbated by the rigors of her campaign or if it's presence is just because it is appropriate for the event.

The progressed anlunar had nearly identical angles as the 8:02 am birth chart in Chicago (they would have been the same about 3 hours earlier when she may have started her day.).

Hi Bob-- just checking my understanding:

demi solar return=sun opposite sun???

anlunar???

One thing I get from Clinton's natal chart (8:02 am) and news reports is that here is a woman who drives herself really, really hard. (major Scorpio-Leo squares involving the sun and AS. Most of us diagnosed with pneumonia wouldn't be out on the reviewing stand for 1.5 hours in the sun 2 days later. She is a practicing Methodist, and quoted a saying from her faith:

"“Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as ever you can.”

Sounds good, except that it could be a recipe for driving oneself too hard.

The other congenital issue I would note from Clinton's 8:02 chart is Uranus square Pisces moon. Pisces rules the feet, Uranus in Gemini rules sudden accidents, and Clinton has had several incidents of tripping-- one where she fell and broke her wrist. (Gemini rules the hands.)

I don't think this disqualifies her from office. Nixon was noted as a klutz, but his problems as president didn't stem from this issue in any way.

waybread said:

Hi Bob-- just checking my understanding:

demi solar return=sun opposite sun???

anlunar???

Click to expand...

Correct on the demi-solar.

An anlunar is a lunar return cast using the Moon from the nearest preceding solar or demi-solar return before an event.

Continuing to apply the 8:02 chart to the same events I used for the 2:18 chart and have only had 1 come out not to my satisfaction so far but even that might be explained if Chelsea's birth was difficult for Hillary.

My computer was hacked again last night but as before I made an immediate recovery. Nice have a second computer which copies the first and is then separated.

The following has nothing to do with any of the Clintons. As with Hitler, Stalin, Richard Speck, and many others, there are people the world would be a better place without as with their presence they contribute more ill than good.
.

The reason I think she is sick is the same reason I suspect many others with heavy scorpio features are sick.

I believe Mars kind of causes Saturn to become distraught, if that is the right word, which in-turn caused people with heavy scorpio aspects to be more susceptible to being distraught or ill physically and / or mentally. Obviously a temporary problem, but sort of not, considering it's Saturn and Pluto...

Once Mars gets on it's way, this health obsession should pass since Saturn will definitely explain why it feels sick and all the causation will be pointed out with Mars - actively, in the meantime... And then Mercury, Gemini, 3rd, and 6th H, as Waybread said, are facilitating that "distraught" feeling and allowing it to manifest somehow; spiritually, emotionally, mentally, or physically. That will lose it's significance, all of the sudden people are obbsessed with health. Not maintaining theirs - uncovering other peoples! Trump benefits from a who is healthier war, but I do not agree that we should be going here. Their health records. They wouldn't be there if they were too sick, one way or the other, to be there. Nothing wrong with actually winning a square or opposition, God forbid, in both of their defense. People just tend to look younger and live longer; becoming a President is like the "end" of ones career. Of course they have health problems. lol We nominated people in their late 60s.

Assessing the candidate astrologically,
DD

The thing with Scorpio ascendants is that the ruler of the 1st (body) is also the ruler of the 6th (illness).

How is there accuracy working with asteriods with names that are alike to ones given name? Or do you specifically look for it to be prominent in the natal chart? Trying to understand this method.

waybread said:

If you work with asteroids:

asteroid Hillary is #3130.

There is no asteroid Donald or its cognate Donal. No asteroid Trump, Drumpf, or anything close. For what it's worth, the closest I could come up with was asteroid Donn, #4689.

asteroid Ohio (an important swing state) is #439

I'm not kidding-- there is now an asteroid Billary, #228136.

Asteroid William is #270373.

Asteroid #916 is America.

Astrodienst has an ephemeris for all of these asteroids, and you can input them on the bottom of the chart construction page.

You can have fun with this. On election day, November 8, 2016 transiting asteroid Hillary falls right at the midpoint of the Sibly chart's sun and part of fortune. They're close, only 7 degrees apart.

Click to expand...

Here is the chart theV was talking about, with asteroid hillary being conjunct natal usa sun on election day. I really needed to see the chart that was being referenced, especially because it's so astrologically interesting!

What do you guys make of asteriod T. hillary being opposite T pluto?

muchacho said:

The thing with Scorpio ascendants is that the ruler of the 1st (body) is also the ruler of the 6th (illness).

Click to expand...

OK, but then with Virgo rising, you could get Uranus and Saturn ruling the 6th house. With Leo rising, you get Saturn ruling the 6th house. With Gemini rising you get Mars and Pluto ruling the 6th house. Now we suspect one third of the rising signs, or a couple of billion people on the planet.

Jupiter ruling the 6th, if it's poorly placed, could give you liver problems.

You need to see what the planet is up to. Mars rules surgeons, so this wouldn't always be a bad placement.

In medical astrology, further, the 6th house is just a big catch-all for illness and health. If you say you feel sick, your doctor doesn't stop with "sick," s/he wants to know where it hurts. If you have headaches, we would look to Aries, Mars, and/or the first house. If you have intestinal cramps, then the 6th house would work, but not if your stomach aches (4th house, Cancer.)

Just a bit of medical astrology/timing of events.

According to Ridder-Fitzpatrick, Handbook of Medical Astrology, the elbow bone is at 24 degrees Gemini.

In modern astrology, Uranus rules "sudden upsets" such as accidents.

Natally Clinton has Uranus at 25 Gemini 55'. With the 8:02 am birth time her moon is at 22 Pisces 51'; a square with a 3-degree orb. I would therefore assume that Clinton's elbow/mid-arm or feet (tripping) might be vulnerable. (25 degrees Gemini is the radius.)

Clinton broke her elbow in a fall on June 17, 2009.

On that date she had transiting:

Uranus at 26 Pisces 32' conjunct natal moon (4 degree orb) and square natal Uranus (within 1 degree orb.)

Sun partile conjunct natal Uranus.

On that date she had progressed:

moon partile conjunct natal Uranus.

Mars conjunct MC (1.5 degree orb)

Chiron conjunct Mercury (1 degree orb)

I think Clinton might be a bit of a klutz. In modern astrology Chiron shows us "where it hurts," be it emotionally or physically. (I broke my ankle when transiting Chiron conjuncted my natal Mercury (rules walking) in Aquarius (rules the ankles.)

Clinton's natal sun-Mercury near- midpoint in Scorpio pretty closesly opposes the near-midpoint of her Uranus (sudden upsets)-Pisces (rules the feet) midpoint in Taurus. Put differently using far-midpoints, they're conjunct at 9 degrees of Taurus and Scorpio.

On Clinton's accident day, transiting Mars and Venus, at 11 and 10 degrees Taurus, respectively, were pretty close.

But Clinton's chart seems especially sensitive to Uranus. Both because of this accident timing, and also because on November 8, Clinton's solar arc Uranus conjuncts her MC. Either being elected president or missing out are real MC matters subject to Uranian sudden change.

(Trump's chart, Rodden AA, shows Uranus square MC on November 8.)

waybread said:

OK, but then with Virgo rising, you could get Uranus and Saturn ruling the 6th house. With Leo rising, you get Saturn ruling the 6th house. With Gemini rising you get Mars and Pluto ruling the 6th house. Now we suspect one third of the rising signs, or a couple of billion people on the planet.

Jupiter ruling the 6th, if it's poorly placed, could give you liver problems.

You need to see what the planet is up to. Mars rules surgeons, so this wouldn't always be a bad placement.

In medical astrology, further, the 6th house is just a big catch-all for illness and health. If you say you feel sick, your doctor doesn't stop with "sick," s/he wants to know where it hurts. If you have headaches, we would look to Aries, Mars, and/or the first house. If you have intestinal cramps, then the 6th house would work, but not if your stomach aches (4th house, Cancer.)

Click to expand...

You're right, just because it's the ruler of the 6th doesn't say much. To see what the planet is up to and if (or how) it is health related we would have to work out the actual nature of the planet (strength and auspiciousness) and the actual placement of the planet (divisions).