The Occult or the Arts, what is my primary form of expression

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
Hi,

I have attached my chart here in order to gain more insight into my primary form of expression. I am currently an emerging new media artist with decent monetary and professional success. But since about 2009, I have lost a lot of the momentum in developing new projects and have just been coasting on old laurels. Meantime, there's an urge to do something new, something that can synthesize better all of my interests (to the extent that is possible). Previously, I was a classical musician and have an MFA in visual arts. So my interests are in music, visual arts, writing, and research on the esoteric. I dabble in the Tarot and the pendulum and am even contemplating on pursuing a certification in Jungian analysis (my interest is in the learning process, not as much as the practicing of the analysis on a day-to-day basis). Why am I so restless? Any suggestions on how I can zero in so that I can get down to work? :love:

Also, why am I so good at conceptualizing, and so bad at executing my ideas?

Thanks!
 

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FarEastUranus

Well-known member
Oops, noticing that other members had more sophisticated looking charts, I noticed that mine was from the Youth Portrait section. Here's the adult version :love:
 

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hi, I have attached my chart here in order to gain more insight into my primary form of expression...... . Why am I so restless? Any suggestions on how I can zero in so that I can get down to work? :love: Also, why am I so good at conceptualizing, and so bad at executing my ideas? Thanks!
Hi FarEastUranus the following is a sample of some discussion on primary form of expression that you may find interesting, viewable at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=382268#post382268:smile:
4. The Elemental Quality of the Sign of the Ascendant is showing the type of Primary Motivation of the native.

Fire goes for freedom of action and power.
Air goes for freedom of expression and movement.
The Water signs need emotional security
Earth signs need physical security.

The person with masculine Ascendant (or majority of planets in masculine signs) speaks in active terms: "I did this to that person".
The person with feminine sign on Ascendant or majority planets in feminine signs, speaks in passive terms: "This happened to me".

The Feminine signs seek advice because they need second hand in their decisions, in fact they want someone else to make the decision for them.
Masculine signs seek advice because they have many options so they are not sure which option is better.

Cardinal signs are most active. Cardinal water and earth (Cancer and Capricorn) are working great amount of actions but in circumstances and environment structured already by someone else.
Libra and Aries (Cardinal masculine) are working great in any kind of circumstances.

Fixed signs are centripetal, they need center. They are very successful in Acquisations.
Taurus hoards money.
Leo hoards glory and honor.
Scorpio hoards the hidden things, hidden motivations of other people, seek energy and vitality.
Aquarius hoards Knowledge.

Mutable signs vacillate between the two: cardinal and fixed.

5. Examine the planets which most closely aspects the Ascendant. These planets add to the whole Primary Motivation thing.

Planets aspecting the Ascendant represent powers the native can use in the world.

The aspecting planet's local determination will be added to the Primary
Motivation.
(Venus in 5th will add love for pleasure and entertainment to the native's Primary Motivation).

The aspect between the aspecting planet and the Ascendant tells you how the being of the planet and its local determination are linked.

6. The Ruler of the Ascendant by its house position tells you where (what area of life) the native will seek to realize his/her Primary Motivation.

Look also at all 5 dignity rulers in the place of the ASC. The Almuten and Exalted ruler are lamost as significant as the domicile ruler (sometimes even more).

The Ruler of the Ascendant (as well as the other rulers) by its nature and zodiacal state shows the methods the native will use and the success or failure of the drive.

This is great quote by Zoller:


Lets assume that a person has Cancer on the Ascendant,
The primary motivation of this person is the Need for Emotional Security.
The ruler/s of the Ascendant and their zodiacal and local state will determine How would this be achieved.

Lets assume Moon on IC in Libra Peregrine.
Jupiter in 6th (but 7th sign!) in Capricorn.
Venus in Sag in 6th - Peregrine.
Mars in Scorpio in 4th (but 5th sign!)
Saturn (term ruler) is in 5th Scorpio Peregrine.

We can see that Moon is strong by accident (being on angle), so we can judge first from there.
The need for Emotional Security this person would seek in the home, in the place of the father. The father would be the means through which this person would try to achieve the Emotional Security.
Jupiter - the exalted ruler is weak by being cadent, Venus too. They can't produce much in giving the emotional security this person seeks.
Jupiter by universal means suggest that the native would seek wisdom, religion (and the person actually did!) but by being cadent and in fall, it can't productively give what it promise.
Mars is in 4/5th and is strong by zodiacal state, but is out of sect malefic.
It would try to win competitions, but also with Saturn in 5th will give great deal of creativity. Mars rules the 10th - creativity and looking for career, would also give some amount of emotional security for this person. But by being square with Sun in 7th it means that it will have opposition from authorities and other people in general.

The primary motivation is great deal of what we unconsciously and often consciously seek for. Once that motivation is broken or someone interrupt it, we seek to fix that in the every possible way we can do that.

I will continue with the tips in my next post.
 

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
Hi, thank you for the links.

My main difficulty is this: even though I have Virgo sun and ascendant, I am unable to integrate the positive aspect of the Virgo sign - day-to-day routine, physical organization of work space, attentiveness to detail, sense of service, all of these things are lacking in me, which when I think about it, may also be related to a lack of Saturnine old-school discipline.

If I use some of the method suggested, namely finding the root planet of my ascendant, which is Asc Virgo > Mercury, Mercury (Libra) > Venus, Venus (Libra) is in its own sign Libra, also conjunct Mercury, Mars, Pluto, forming a stellium. So let's assume according to this line of argument that my ruler planet is Venus, or a combination of Venus and Mercury (that does make a bit more sense to me than the Virgo/earth energy).

In my character, I do find these qualities:
Mercury = speed, clarity, and precision in all forms of communication
Venus = easy-going, sometimes a bit lazy, refined (but not Baroque) taste

Libra is cardinal and air, and I can be very mental, and self-initiating. I make up my own mind. I have good relationship luck (esp. benefactors and good mentors, including my dad), but I also enjoy my time alone. Each has its merits.

So where do I go from here? 2nd house is related to material gains, and I have an abundance of planets here, although I've always managed to miraculously not have to think of this aspect, and I intuit that it's a benevolent Jupiterian kind of energy (I had generous music scholarship for college, then a small inheritance, then free MFA, then random management and sales of artwork that were never created to be commercial). But really, I do not relate to most of my 2nd house concerns, as I always had this emotional security that earth will provide, even though everybody around me is like, "this is the worst recession," "art market is crashing..." I do not nest or hoard my possessions either and enjoy to have a good time and do not deprive myself. Let's say that I always manage to spend less than I have without balancing the checkbook every moment. So I wonder if 2nd house has other meanings?

The only planets in my chart that I can make sense of are: Jupiter in 9th conjunct MC (Gemini) and Uranus in 3rd house (Scorpio). I think that 3rd /9th pole is my default mode of thinking. Of course, my North/South Nodes are on this polarity as well. My major areas of challenge are 6th (establishing a routine, an organization) and 5th (creating in the purest sense, going from conceptualization to the actual execution).

Do I have the wrong chart? Should I just give up? :sideways:
 

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
The birth time is only according to my mom. On my birth record, there's only the day. Since her memory is pretty decent and I'm an only child, I'll give the 5 am a leeway of say, 2 hours each way (I really don't think my mom would be more than a few minutes off, as she used to be called a recorder in the family, for her total recall)

That would leave:
3:00 am Leo - sun - Virgo - Mercury in Libra
5:00 am Virgo - Mercury in Libra
7:00 am Libra - Venus in Libra

These changes does move the houses quite a bit. Do you think that the 2nd house stellium is suspicious according to my descriptions?

But according to the current chart, my Saturn return transit was eerily accurate, down to the hour (or is this independent of birth time?)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The birth time is only according to my mom. On my birth record, there's only the day. Since her memory is pretty decent and I'm an only child, I'll give the 5 am a leeway of say, 2 hours each way (I really don't think my mom would be more than a few minutes off, as she used to be called a recorder in the family, for her total recall)

That would leave:
3:00 am Leo - sun - Virgo - Mercury in Libra
5:00 am Virgo - Mercury in Libra
7:00 am Libra - Venus in Libra

These changes does move the houses quite a bit. Do you think that the 2nd house stellium is suspicious according to my descriptions?

But according to the current chart, my Saturn return transit was eerily accurate, down to the hour (or is this independent of birth time?)
Rectification aka verification of a debatable time of birth is an interesting subject FarEastUranus, and one frequently discussed on our forum as for example at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51626:smile:
 

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
My mom has given 5:20 am once. I just went through the rectification thread, but cannot have the heart to attack the process if I can't even relate to the basics. :sick:

I'm not asking for predictions here, just how to make sense of my basic psychological makeup from the aspects, etc...
 

Moog

Well-known member
The Occult or the Arts, what is my primary form of expression

I find your 10th house (career) ruled by Venus. Jupiter ruling the 5th (creative expression) and 8th (occult) is placed in the 10th house. Jupiter and Venus form an almost perfect trine, cementing a strong connection.

It is not an 'or'.

Since about 2009, I have lost a lot of the momentum in developing new projects and have just been coasting on old laurels.

A brief Dasha analysis suggests that the funk set in during a Saturn period. You're currently experiencing a Ketu period, which may account for current doldrums and listlessness. A Venus period begins soon, perhaps that will reinvigorate things.

Also, why am I so good at conceptualizing, and so bad at executing my ideas?

Executions (interesting choice of word) are the domain of Mars, who (when looked at through a sidereal chart) is not favourable in a sign of Mercury. Too much think, not enough do?

Again, Ketu period may be responsible (Ketu in Aries)
 

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
"Divine Discontentment" - regarding Neptune

Taken directly from Steven Arroyo's book Astrology, Karma, and Transformation

I have personally found Neptune to be in either conjunction, square, or opposition (the so-called "bad" aspects) with the personal planets or the Ascendant in the chart of every individual I've seen who is actively pursuing some kind of spiritual path as his or her main life's work. Evidently, these "stressful" aspects are not so "bad" for spiritual seekers. One might suppose that the energy generated by such aspects is necessary to prompt an individual to act on his spiritual inclinations and to srive with greater effort in that area of life. C.E.O. Carter has likewise found these aspects with Neptune to be more indicative of artistic creativity and spiritual progress than the so-called "easy" aspects with Neptune.In his book The Astrological Aspects, a treatment of aspects which I feel contains more gems of insight than any other book on the topic, Carter writes the following concerning the "inhuarmonious" aspects between Venus and Neptune:

In some respects, these seem to lead to more definite results than the trine and sextile, for they bestow a divine discontent, and a constant restless seeking for an ideal which is not easily realizable on earth. This is particularly so in matters of the affections. The ideals are indeed very high, and there may be a persistent dissatisfaction both with things and persons, varying from a petulant or peevish attitude, to a noble aspiration and persistent endeavor to seek for a fuller realization of inner visions.

...The inharmonious combinations are frequently found in the nativities of great artists. Although the good aspects of these two planets are naturally more favorable for happiness and easy conditions, it seems that, so far as achievement, moral character, and artistic ability go, the inharmonious aspects are in no way inferior to them; in fact, they may be better as they produce more energy.
 

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
I find your 10th house (career) ruled by Venus. Jupiter ruling the 5th (creative expression) and 8th (occult) is placed in the 10th house. Jupiter and Venus form an almost perfect trine, cementing a strong connection.

It is not an 'or'.

Hello Moog, thank you for your reply.

I know next to nothing about Vedic astrology, although I've seen an astrologer/palm reader in Varanasi. Could you explain how the 5th and the 8th are place in the 10th and how my career is ruled by Venus? I'm a little mired in the diagram here...

A brief Dasha analysis suggests that the funk set in during a Saturn period. You're currently experiencing a Ketu period, which may account for current doldrums and listlessness. A Venus period begins soon, perhaps that will reinvigorate things.

Right, I think that after Saturn Return, I ceased being interested in what I was previously doing and am at the research stage of new projects. Many fertile ideas that I would like to implement. When does the Venus period set in?

Executions (interesting choice of word) are the domain of Mars, who (when looked at through a sidereal chart) is not favourable in a sign of Mercury. Too much think, not enough do?

Mars is the lord of action, yes. I can be very daring and swift but have trouble with the day-to-day following through. Is that also Mars? Or more Saturn's domain?

Again, Ketu period may be responsible (Ketu in Aries)

Do you count the Ketu period from a person's Saturn Return?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
My mom has given 5:20 am once. I just went through the rectification thread, but cannot have the heart to attack the process if I can't even relate to the basics. :sick: I'm not asking for predictions here, just how to make sense of my basic psychological makeup from the aspects, etc...
So the time is not 'set in stone'. There is software that does all the 'donkey work' rectification because most people find the exercise extremely tedious!

btw I did note that your ascendant is very early Virgo and since you are allowing a 'window' of two hours either way then I shall mention that if your birth had occurred just fifteen minutes earlier then you would have a Leo Ascendant.

That's intriguing because Leo is the 'domicile' aka 'familiar home' of the sun and you have a Virgo Sun SO maybe your 'Virgo Ascendant' is in fact a Leo Ascendant with a Virgo Sun! JMO

As a matter of interest, in comparison with other family members would your family describe you as (1) tall and thin or short and thin (2) tall and well built or short and plump (3) medium build? Remember 'tall' and 'short' are relative. I ask because physical appearance is one of the factors relevant to gauging an Ascendant :smile:

 

Moog

Well-known member
Hello Moog, thank you for your reply.

I know next to nothing about Vedic astrology, although I've seen an astrologer/palm reader in Varanasi. Could you explain how the 5th and the 8th are place in the 10th and how my career is ruled by Venus? I'm a little mired in the diagram here...

Diagram, good idea.

tumblr_mac8ka8ffP1re07yfo1_400.gif


In this chart, read houses clockwise from the ascendant (AS). I've marked some of the signs.

Jupiter is in Taurus, which is ruled by Venus. Venus is the planets of the arts. Jupiter rules the 5th and the 8th. In effect, Jupiter channels 5th and 8th matters into career actions (10) through the lens of Venus.

The aspect between the two planets serves to create a very strong connection or yoga, unifying the action of the planets.

I hope that makes more sense.

Right, I think that after Saturn Return, I ceased being interested in what I was previously doing and am at the research stage of new projects. Many fertile ideas that I would like to implement. When does the Venus period set in?

Depends on accuracy of the birth time. I've got mid October here.

Mars is the lord of action, yes. I can be very daring and swift but have trouble with the day-to-day following through. Is that also Mars? Or more Saturn's domain?

Do you count the Ketu period from a person's Saturn Return?

It could be a Saturn thing. I do think of Saturn as ruling the general order (or lack) of routine and adherance to schedules and duty in a person's life.

I'm reading the dasha periods independently of the Saturn return. I mention Ketu in Aries as it seems that the shadow planets affect the lord of the sign, in this case Mars.

http://barbarapijan.com/bpa/graha/Ketu/Ketu_01Mesha_rashi.htm
 

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
So the time is not 'set in stone'. There is software that does all the 'donkey work' rectification because most people find the exercise extremely tedious!

btw I did note that your ascendant is very early Virgo and since you are allowing a 'window' of two hours either way then I shall mention that if your birth had occurred just fifteen minutes earlier then you would have a Leo Ascendant.

That's intriguing because Leo is the 'domicile' aka 'familiar home' of the sun and you have a Virgo Sun SO maybe your 'Virgo Ascendant' is in fact a Leo Ascendant with a Virgo Sun! JMO

As a matter of interest, in comparison with other family members would your family describe you as (1) tall and thin or short and thin (2) tall and well built or short and plump (3) medium build? Remember 'tall' and 'short' are relative. I ask because physical appearance is one of the factors relevant to gauging an Ascendant :smile:


Hi JupiterAsc,

No, the time is not set in stone, nor too far off. Because I have immigrated to two different countries in my lifetime, I've never had the original birth record, only transcriptions. My mom says that if I go back to the hospital, it is possible that they may have records or birth time; I haven't tried this yet.

I would say that our whole family is thin, and I'm similar in that way. In terms of height, I am also in the medium range, neither too tall nor too short, so #3.

I think I have read in a Stephen Arroyo book that people who have the same ascendant and sun sign often give off a Leo energy instead of the ascendant energy (I don't know if it's the 1st house sun effect). Personally, I find that there's often a disconnect between my exterior and core, as I'm often "perceived" as extroverted, when in fact I think I'm quite shy.

Changing my birth time also implies some moon and Jupiter house changes. I'm not certain whether it makes more sense for my moon to be in 5th (I'm a bit of a clown sometimes) or 4th (frequent change of residence, also of continents, since I was 14). Jupiter in 9th would also indicate a lot of international travel, which I do with my art work, as well as a love of philosophy. I'm not sure what it would mean in 10th.

In terms of rectification, if I send you some dates and approximate time of significant events privately, are you able to input them in a software without taking up too much of your time? You seem like a professional, and I wouldn't want to take up too much of your valuable time... I'm more interested in growth and self-knowledge, less in knowing what events will happen when actually. Do you think a rectification is still necessary?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hi JupiterAsc, No, the time is not set in stone, nor too far off. Because I have immigrated to two different countries in my lifetime, I've never had the original birth record, only transcriptions. My mom says that if I go back to the hospital, it is possible that they may have records or birth time; I haven't tried this yet. I would say that our whole family is thin, and I'm similar in that way. In terms of height, I am also in the medium range, neither too tall nor too short, so #3.

I think I have read in a Stephen Arroyo book that people who have the same ascendant and sun sign often give off a Leo energy instead of the ascendant energy (I don't know if it's the 1st house sun effect). Personally, I find that there's often a disconnect between my exterior and core, as I'm often "perceived" as extroverted, when in fact I think I'm quite shy. Changing my birth time also implies some moon and Jupiter house changes. I'm not certain whether it makes more sense for my moon to be in 5th (I'm a bit of a clown sometimes) or 4th (frequent change of residence, also of continents, since I was 14). Jupiter in 9th would also indicate a lot of international travel, which I do with my art work, as well as a love of philosophy. I'm not sure what it would mean in 10th.

In terms of rectification, if I send you some dates and approximate time of significant events privately, are you able to input them in a software without taking up too much of your time? You seem like a professional, and I wouldn't want to take up too much of your valuable time... I'm more interested in growth and self-knowledge, less in knowing what events will happen when actually. Do you think a rectification is still necessary?
Rectification is a complex and time consuming procedure and although I have rectification software fwiw JMO it has limitations – furthermore I can tell you that there is no guarantee that several different astrologers would individually decide on several different ascendants - dependent upon their personal opinions/methods! :smile:

However, JMO FarEastUranus you are doing such a good job of assessing your own chart and since this is a learning forum then I encourage you to continue experimenting with alternative possibilities because that is a great way to learn the basics as well as gain confidence in your own judgement. You have also said your time of birth is neither 'set in stone' NOR 'too far off' so perhaps rectification could simply be a concept for you to experiment with while exploring the growth and self-knowledge via astrology which you have said interest you far more than anything else.
 

IleneK

Premium Member
Hi,
Why am I so restless? Any suggestions on how I can zero in so that I can get down to work? :love:
Thanks!

Don't know if anyone addressed this yet, but as transiting Pluto and Uranus have been squaring each other in the heavens, they have been making hard contacts to your natal Mercury Mars Pluto. This t-square may account for feeling stuck in restlessness, with a need to purge and innovate, to make the way for something new. The planets, signs and house placements in this tense configuration should shed light on a strategy of how to best get down to work.
 

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
Thank you, JupiterAsc, for the above link.

Yes, yes, I have already read it. Most of the time, when I take time replying, it's because I'm still digesting, same to Moog's comments. I am reading her (?) blog and trying to figure out the basics of Vedic astrology so that I can comment. Thanks a lot for all of your input.

Jupiter, what was your conclusion with regard to my physical appearance? Over the years, I've come to resolve myself to be a Virgo ascendant, even though Virgo was a difficult sign for me to relate to, being the large-picture, class-clown, independent-minded, organized (only in the head) kind of person, but oh well, such is life.

If I read the above link that you send me, I can clearly see that

4. The Elemental Quality of the Sign of the Ascendant is showing the type of Primary Motivation of the native.
Fire goes for freedom of action and power.
Air goes for freedom of expression and movement.
The Water signs need emotional security
Earth signs need physical security.

The person with masculine Ascendant (or majority of planets in masculine signs) speaks in active terms: "I did this to that person".
The person with feminine sign on Ascendant or majority planets in feminine signs, speaks in passive terms: "This happened to me".

The Feminine signs seek advice because they need second hand in their decisions, in fact they want someone else to make the decision for them.
Masculine signs seek advice because they have many options so they are not sure which option is better.

Cardinal signs are most active. Cardinal water and earth (Cancer and Capricorn) are working great amount of actions but in circumstances and environment structured already by someone else.
Libra and Aries (Cardinal masculine) are working great in any kind of circumstances.

Fixed signs are centripetal, they need center. They are very successful in Acquisitions.
Taurus hoards money.
Leo hoards glory and honor.
Scorpio hoards the hidden things, hidden motivations of other people, seek energy and vitality.
Aquarius hoards Knowledge.

Mutable signs vacillate between the two: cardinal and fixed.

From this description, I would say without the shadow of a doubt that I am an air sign in terms of my primary motivation: seeking freedom of expression and movement. I tend to have a strong sense of emotional and physical security, and action and power are only a sometime thing, not a primary motivation. I probably have a good mix of masculine and feminine (this could be a false polarity), although I make my own decisions. I'm definitely not a hoarder of anything because I'm always interested in exploring the new and the unknown, so maybe cardinal? Does that make me (clearing my throat) a Libra Asc???

Another possibility is that because Libra (air) and Virgo (ruled by Mercury and very mental) are so strong in my chart, or that my Mercury is in a Libra stellium, this is influencing me more than anything else? The natural conclusion would be that whether my Asc is Leo, Virgo, or Libra, they all point to the Mercury in Libra stellium configuration, but the house positions would vary vastly. I do feel that the 2nd house stellium is a bit fishy since the very beginning. However, I can't tell where it would have been appropriate :love:
 

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
I have just looked over the dignities, and find a lot of my planets to be in distress according to essential dignities :whistling:

Granted, some of the slower planets are generational, but:

Sun in Virgo House 1 (Peregrine but angular)
Moon in Cap House 5 (Detriment)
Mercury in Libra House 2 (Peregrine)
Mars in Libra House 2 (Detriment) - I get what you were talking about Moog
Venus in Libra House 2 (Domicile)
Jupiter in Gem House 10 (Detriment, but angular)
Saturn in Leo House 12 ( Detriment + house 12, this is clearly a bad configuration)

My Saturn, Mars, and moon are in distress. Is this a common feature in one's horoscope?
 

FarEastUranus

Well-known member
Don't know if anyone addressed this yet, but as transiting Pluto and Uranus have been squaring each other in the heavens, they have been making hard contacts to your natal Mercury Mars Pluto. This t-square may account for feeling stuck in restlessness, with a need to purge and innovate, to make the way for something new. The planets, signs and house placements in this tense configuration should shed light on a strategy of how to best get down to work.

I noticed this and it seems pretty accurate as far as how I would like to organize my work. By the way, I think this applies to a lot of people with Virgo ascendants:
AQUARIUS on 6th HOUSE

The sixth house deals with careers, routines, and health. The natives' obligations to others as well as themselves appear in this house. Aquarius ruling the sixth house indicates a native requiring complete independence and reliance on the ingenuity of solutions when it comes to assignments. The native becomes restless and bored when it comes to repetitive tasks and prefers unusual types of work. Their health likewise tends to be erratic and they may suffer from some nervous conditions. In this house of foods there are erratic mood swings and appetites. Many prefer vegetarianism, while others dine out on junk food for days on end. There is also a tendency to crave salt resulting in mineral imbalance and tissue dehydration.
PATHOLOGICAL TENDENCIES: Disorders and weakness in those parts ruled by this sign - ankles and Achilles tendon, tibia, fibula, calves; blood; eyesight; the breath; hypertension, vascular disease; obesity; heart disease from inharmonious living.
FOOD ALLERGY TENDENCIES: Almond, anise, beans, beer, brazil nut, caraway, carbonated drinks, endive, filbert, hazel nuts, mace, marjoram, parsley, pecan, pistachio, rare/exotic foods, sage, spearmint, star anise. These foods should be checked by electroacupuncture, bioneutralizer, applied kinesiology, or by cytotoxic testing.
 
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