A Gemini country because it has two parties? What makes it a Gemini country? The most important part is deriving an accurate chart. I know you are probably all expert astrologers, but I've found some patterns in a chart I talked about yesterday. I use different mundane charts than most people, but I find that the results aren't as perplexing. i always would assume mine would be the one that would be off, but given the confusion as to what happened, I'm curious if anyone has reconsidered the chart or Hillary's time based off the results?
I am interested to know if people disagree with the times and locations and what theirs would be.
Do we have anyone else here that believes some of the founders figured astrology into at least part of their timing and location on that date?
09-23-2008, 01:41 PM
BobZemco
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: On a web-site far, far away...
Posts: 2,137
Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skywatcher1221
There is a lot to recommend the Gemini rising chart for the U.S.
There is nothing to recommend for a Gemini rising chart.
I will take on all comers and I will have you all in tears, that's how badly I will beat you down with facts.
The transits of Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto only fit a Sagittarius rising chart and no other.
The 11th House is definitely and undisputably "peace at any price" Libra.
Most of you don't know that the US government paid an annual tribute to the Barbary States for more than 10 years.
Adjusted for 2007 US Dollars, the annual tribute was $132,506,124
The Libra "peace at any price" US government paid annual bribes to Britain, France, Spain, and half a dozen other countries not to attack or harass its naval and merchant vessels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skywatcher1221
but the Sagittarius Ascendant has historic credibility. 12-13 degrees of Sagittarius seems likely
About 9° Sag fits better.
This is why Gemini rising fails miserably. In a personal chart, the archetype for Uranus opposition Ascendant reflects a change in relationship status, usually separation or divorce, but it can mean other things.
In the mundane chart for countries, Uranus opposition Ascendant often means civil wars.
In the US natal chart that I use, transiting Uranus first opposes the natal Ascendant at the time of the Civil War.
Progressing the chart pre-natal, Uranus opposes the natal Ascendant at the time of the colonial war of independence.
Progressing the chart further still pre-natal, there are civil wars in the colonies in 1692 when transiting Uranus opposes the natal Ascendant as the colony of Carolina has a civil war that results in a split into North and South Carolina, and then the Dominion of New England is overthrown creating what is effectively the colonies of Maine, Vermont, New Hamshire, Rhode Island and Massachusetts.
Progressing the chart beyond 1861 we have a Uranus opposition Ascendant in 1944.
Civil War? Nope.
But the relationship of the US with the world changed as the US became
the leader of the world.
I only mention that because in 20 years, Uranus will oppose the US natal Ascendant again.
1944 was different than 1692, 1776 and 1861 because the transits of the other outer planets were different, and you must take them into consideration (as well as the progressed planets).
2028 more closely conforms to 1861 and to a lesser extent, 1776 than 1944. A civil war in the US in 2028 is extremely likely especially in the context of world events and US society.
In 1841, you had a US society that was divided into two camps with irreconcilable differences, a recession started that led to the Great Depression (the first of two in the 1800s) and shortly thereafter the Civil War began.
What exists in 2008, is a US society divided into two camps with irreconcilable differences, a recession coming that will lead to an economic depression, and shortly thereafter a civil war will begin.
Because of a previous military duty assignment, I have in-depth knowledge of US geo-strategy so I'd be happy to explain it, but for those who are interested in learning on their own to understand why the US is in Iraq, I recommend reading the writings of neo-conservatives from the period 1974 to 1978 and then looking at other neo-conservative positon papers especially those written during the Clinton Adminstration which will give you insight into why the illegal wars Clinton supported in Bosnia, Kosovo-Metojiha, Central Asia and Afghanistan were important in shaping the future and paving the way for Bush to invade Iraq.
If the US fails in its current geo-strategy, the US wil fail as a nation, and the US probably will fail because it under-estimated China and because of the genius of the ultimate god-like poet-warrior Vladimr Putin (sorry General Haig).
That failure will certainly cause economic problems that might lead to civil war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skywatcher1221
-- it appears first in the chart of the American Revolution as the Moon's position, in the 8th House (April 19, 1775, 5:00 AM, Lexington, Massachusetts).
Not really relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skywatcher1221
Also in the chart for Abraham Lincoln's death
So? I have 11 Ptolemaic aspects.
The Lincoln Assassination was a conspiracy, and Pluto figures prominently, as of course you would expect. The Moon is conjunct the Ascendant when Lincoln dies (naturally of course as you would expect).
The Garfield and McKinley Assassinations were not conspiracies, so as you would expect, Pluto does not figure prominently, in fact not at all.
The Kennedy Assasination? Pluto figures prominently. I'm sorry to report that there are only a mere 8 Ptolemaic aspects.
How many from the Sibley Chart? Yeah, that's what I thought. Gag me with a spoon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skywatcher1221
and the 9/11 Attacks.
My chart boasts 13 Ptolemaic aspects; transit to progressed to natal.
It would probably take me months to look at the minor aspects.
I'm rolling on the floor laughing when someone says they have a partile dodecaquintilespetisextile proving their chart shows 9-11.
How many with the Sibley Chart? What a useless chart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skywatcher1221
True, the Moon was void-of-course
And that pretty much sums it up. The Sibley Chart is Void, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skywatcher1221
The founders like Jefferson envisioned an agrarian republic
Jefferson envisioned 13 separate countries, just like each of the 13 colonies envisioned 13 separate countries.
He even said so 3 times in the Declaration of Independence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skywatcher1221
Might this be the "real" chart of the United States?
No possible way. There isn't a single document that supports the creation of a "United States" prior to 1777. The idea of a "united states" existed only among a few men.
US history books are full of propaganda and lies.
For example, you're told that the "big bad evil godless communist Soviets" put missile in Cuba to threaten the US. That's an outrageous lie.
What you aren't told is that in April 1962, the US put missiles on the Soviet border in Turkey to threaten and frighten the Russian people. The Soviets responded appropriately by putting missiles in Cuba to negate the US threat.
You aren't told the truth, because it would alter your perception of the events.
The same is true for the Berlin Blockade. You're told that the "big bad evil godless communist Soviets" blockaded Berlin for no reason.
What you aren't told is that the German army destroyed cities in Belarus, Ukraine and eastern Russia, and that under international law, the Soviets were authorized war reparations to repair the infrastructure.
You also aren't told that a big brain in the US government thought it would be really cool and funny to cut off the payments of war reparations between Germany and the Soviet Union to keep the Soviets from reparing the badly damaged infrastructure and that the Soviets responded appropriately by blockading access to Berlin.
See, knowing the truth would alter your perception of events.
The same is true for the "Revolutionary War." You aren't told that only 10% of the colonists supported the rebels. The other 90% supported the king or didn't care, because that would alter your perception of the events.
Anyway, I'm running 5 US natal charts based on actual historical events (that most Americans wouldn't be aware of unless they studied US colonial history at university), and I dropped one because it sucked even though it blows the Sibley Chart away.
I now have 4 hits on my best chart. My last hit came when I made a prediction on a web-site on August 10 of events that would occur during the week of September 8.
I need 8 more correct predictions before I can claim I have the "Holy Grail" since that will make me 12 for 12.
I'm probably going to drop two more charts in the next 60 days, even though they blow the Sibley Chart away on transits and progressions for past events, they aren't as strong as my best chart on past events and their predictive capacity isn't all that good. 50-50 is unacceptable for predictions.
