The Quincunx "Riddle"

Could someone please explain the meaning of this Aspect to me? I Have a Gemini mars in the eleventh house quincunx scorpio pluto in the fourth house. I've been trying to work out its particular effect on my life for some time, as theres been alot of conflict in my life.
After reading a few interpretations, ive understood the following (which is probably not the whole picture but nevertheless...): I subconciously stir up conflict in my "home base" by getting into manipulative subversive ego battles/"cold wars" (scorpio pluto fourth) in order to provoke myself into action/change my life, as opposed to going after my desires in an overt, outwardly goal oriented movement (gemini mars 11th)to transform myself.
I may be totally off, but ive noticed patterns as this isnt the first bout of conflict of this nature in my life. Mostly i just want it to stop as im sure it will happen again if i dont get to the bottom of it.
Any interpretation, similar personal accounts, advice would be greatly appreciated

For me, the inconjunct (dysjunct) relationship (these are the oldtime terms), now known as quincunx, represents exactly that, ie, a dysfunctional (dissonant) relationship between the 2 points (factors, bodies, planets, etc) involved: this aspect is not recognized in Traditionalist astrology (it is really only considered in Modernist astrology), however over the years I have come to absolutely regard it as "real", and as an effective indication of a difficult energetic relationship between the points involved; I usually regard the effective orb as 3 degrees, but I believe I have seen effective indications as far as 5 degrees from exact, in many instances.

It would be so helpful if you could put up your chart (make sure it's in a form which provides the degrees of the planet next to it).

The inconjunct...the true inconjunct is a major aspect because it is so difficult and can render more positive aspects almost useless if it is interfering.

There are a lot of variations in the delineation of this aspect and it all hinges on seeing the whole chart. YOUR life deserves to be defined by more than one aspect.

Two planets 150 degrees apart have nothing in common. They don't recognize each other and don't play well together. They can't "cooperate." They speak different languages. They don't want the same things.

So one needs to utilize each planet consciously in a way that takes the energy out of the inconjunct. The longer it is allowed to "act out" unconsciously, the harder it is to modify its energy.
LIN

Steve, good question and one I have myself - I probably do not know any more than you do but what I've learned so far about quincunxes is the planets involved are unable to work with each other - they literally do not see one another and need outside energy in order to be addressed by the person who has the quincunx. But - I'm still learning about this as I have a quincunx that defies my attempts to analytically understand. I think that may be part of it as well, if a quincunx operates on a subconscious level then it's especially difficult to puzzle it out consciously. Mine is additionally a pain because it involves the 12th and 8th houses - houses of secrets and afterlife - making it even harder for me to consciously understand. But, yes its hard to know without looking at a chart.

Lin said:

It would be so helpful if you could put up your chart (make sure it's in a form which provides the degrees of the planet next to it).

Click to expand...

Greetings! I realize this isn't my thread but I ran across it while browsing to get a feel for these boards and thought this might be a suitable place for my first question. I have a prominent quincunx in my chart (attached) that someone was kind enough to point out to me a few years back and while I have learned more about its influence on my life I still lack any true understanding.

Jupiter in Taurus (28*08) in the 12th is quincunx my Moon in Sagittarius (28*03) in the 8th. I understand that a quincunx is an aspect where the planets involved literally do not see one another and I've had it pointed out to me that this indicates a disjunct relationship with my Mother - since the Moon indicates the mother and Jupiter is conjunct my ascendant - me - which was true. I've also had it pointed out that I should pay attention to Venus in Leo (27*29) in the 4th aspects which is square Jupiter and trine Moon.

Interpretation? Well, Jupiter rules Sagittarius and the Moon is in its house and Jupiter is in Taurus where the Moon is exalted (but does not rule) - if they do not see one another is this sort of like when a landlord has squatters who refuse to leave staying in one of his properties? The Moon (emotion, mother, unconscious) in the 8th (mystical, nature of death) refuses to see Jupiter (expansion and higher learning - and a personal planet as conjunct ascendant and significator, ME) in the 12th (mystical, sorrow). --- The obvious meaning I see is that there are difficulties with my relationship with my mother - that there is a fundamental level on which we are unable to "see" each other, which was true - and that there may be great sorrow in connection to that - which is also true as my mother died in 2005 unexpectedly and despite our dysfunctions regrettably.

But - there is something else in the quincunx I can not puzzle out - something mystical in nature. So, I guess I do not have a specific question, I'm just fishing for any illumination I might find to shed some light on the matter. The 12th and 8th house are murky at best for me but they seem to be where I need to focus.

Steve, This aspect suggests a need for adaptation, adjustment or somehow compensating for a perceived lack in life...I think your assessment can be easily interpreted as to what you must do, in order to stop the pattern from repeating itself...the resolution for you involves stopping your tendency to stir up conflict in your home base...your psyche is speaking to you...

Steve, one thing that might be helpful is to imagine each planet as a person with a particular personality (sign) and focus in life (house) and then imagine that they have to align on a course of action so that each gets its needs met.

For starters, Mars and Pluto have a lot in common. Both indicate our aggression, desire for registering our dominance. Mars further indicates what we are willing to pursue actively in life, and Pluto indicates our capacity for profound, intense experiences and personal transformation.

Gemini is mental and likes a lot of variety for stimulation. It is an information and experience hound. Scorpio deepens Pluto's innate proclivities.

The 4th is home, parents, and heritage. The 11th is friends, but also one's hopes and wishes for the future.

So what can we come up with that sounds more empowering than "stirring things up at home"?

What about inviting friends over to your house to watch a football or rugby game? Or what about communicating with Internet "friends" on intense subjects while you are at home?

Pluto in Scorpio in the 4th would probably enjoy depth psychology (as expressed through creative writing, music, or art) renovating the basement (if you have one) or probing your family history.

Mar in Gemini in the 11th would probably enjoy, on its own, some lighter socializing with friends.

Maybe the best you can do is to give both of them equal time.

It is important to use tight orbs. At 154 degrees, a quincunx becomes a tri-septile, which would give a more spiritual cast to your activities. At 144 degrees, you have a bi-quintile, indicating talent and the will to manifest it.

Especially if you look at your progressions (depending upon retrogrades, if any) you may find yourself trending more one way or the other.

Also, is there a third or 4th planet involved in your Mars-Scropio mix? This can suggest some other options and dynamics.

Requires a lots of work to solve like a square, except that its lots more than you think it is. Functions like tripping off Murphy's law.

But the good thing is that you get to come back again and again to fix things with this, sort of like a mutual reception.

My sun is exactly quincunx saturn in the 8th, and also quincunx mars. I have other quincunxes in my chart too, but the sun-saturn is the one I feel I understand the most - even thought, strictly-speaking, it should be a total blind spot (and maybe sometimes it is!).

I know I have difficulty with being disciplined (though I also lack earth and my sun is square neptune), and I also have issues with low self-esteem. That said, the descriptions I've read of the sun-saturn quincunx, don't seem to satisfy me completely. I still feel that there's something more to it that I need to get my head around.

Quincunx's are also related to health, from what I understand...

My keywords for it:

INCONJUNCT= REORGANIZATION, COMES FROM BEHIND,
MURPHY’S LAW, SEVERE PERSONAL STRESS, INVOLVING OF
some kind of physical or emotional health loss, but not seeing it
coming

It does depend on the impact of the aspect in the chart itself. For me there would not be enough information in the chart that you presented to gauge that position; others might not be so hamstrung.

Neophytephoenix, you may wish to read my post in this recent thread:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61851

The quincunx is the itch that you can't scratch. It is an ongoing annoyance, but not so dramatic (like the square) that you take active steps to do something about it.

It might be helpful to look at how the quincunx planets have progressed, or whether a third or fourth planet aspects one or both of them for clues on how to improve the quincunx relationship.

With sun-Saturn, you kind of have to incorporate more Saturn into your sense of identity-- even though it doesn't come easily.

I think everyone knows that two quincunxes forming a sextile relation to a third planet forms a yod. Then the "apex planet" offers guidance.

Thank you StillOne! -- I had not heard of learning triangles and this is the most USEFUL information in regards to working with a quincunx in the chart I have seen.

One, very brief question to be sure I understand correctly. Looking at my chart and applying this aspect (square to quincunx to trine) I see that I have ~3 dominant learning triangles. It could be 2 because Venus is conjunct Mercury but Venus is in Leo in the 4th and Mercury is in Virgo in the 5th so despite their conjunction I would think I'd need to interpret those separately; the areas of life they manifest in are different but because of the conjunction I'd interpret that also as an overlap between those two houses - those areas of my life. I guess I could just look at it both ways and see what I find.

1st, (experience-clockwise)
Venus square Jupiter quincunx Moon trine Venus
2nd (experience-clockwise)
Mercury square Jupiter quincunx Moon trine Mercury
3rd, (cognition-counter)
Mars square Moon quincunx Jupiter trine Mars

But of these three the 1st has the most influence because all three planets are in the end degrees of their sign and they are the only planets in my chart to be in the end degrees of a sign. If I have this right?

It makes sense to me and is exactly what I was looking for to shed some light on the matter - I've been stymied with this for quite some time. The "crisis mechanism" description of how the planets work together is practical, invaluable and completely recognizable as a repeating pattern in my life now that I've had it described. ---- I can't help but laugh about how the experience triangle(s) can repeat many times in a life before the issue is resolved. Yes, yes they can. I'm somewhere near the middle of this life I think (a little before or a little after) so its about time I learn this lesson. Its just the right time.

If you can see it, you can understand it, once understood then you know its nature and its name - then, finally, you can change it. Thanks again, you have my sincere gratitude for taking the time to share!

If it works for you, then it works.

Its not a sequence which I would use, but there are very very many ways to look at the infinitely vast amount of symbolic information that an astrology chart provides about life in the cosmos.

True, true. At this point I am still learning what works for me in astrology - what rings true and what I can practically apply to my experience. My progress in understanding the symbolism of astrology has been very slow - began studying at 10 or 11... local one room public library (before the internet) and ~25 years later I'm still a neophyte. We all have our achilles heel, astrology seems to be one of mine. Which isn't as surprising as it once might have been.

Perhaps after another 25 years I'll be able to say for certain what does work for me, for now I'm learning. Keeps it interesting.