Do asteroid aspects matter

Moondancing

Premium Member
As Oddity comments, there are literally millions of asteroids out there


As far as how many asteroids there are
well, if you only consider those larger than 100 meters orbiting within the inner Solar System,

there are over one hundred and fifty million asteroids :smile:

Count smaller ones and you get even more.
and so
that natal chart is starting to feel a little crowded http://www.universetoday.com/97571/how-many-asteroids-are-out-there/

If we learn anything in astrology it's that little things matter. :)

"Too much work? If you're even an intermediate student in astrology, you've already spent enough time and enough hours to have earned a doctorate in almost any other field. You're willing to spend long days calculating charts and cross-checking references to verify the indications for a single event. You're use to working like a horse (and being rode hard and put away wet for your efforts!) You have already spent an absurd number of hours, days, weeks, and years to acquire a level of expertise. You've made long-term, passionate commitment to the truth (s) that astrology makes available. Why stop now?"

Martha Lang-Wescott
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
If we learn anything in astrology it's that little things matter. :)

"Too much work? If you're even an intermediate student in astrology, you've already spent enough time and enough hours to have earned a doctorate in almost any other field.
You're willing to spend long days calculating charts and cross-checking references to verify the indications for a single event.
You're use to working like a horse (and being rode hard and put away wet for your efforts!)
You have already spent an absurd number of hours, days, weeks, and years to acquire a level of expertise.
You've made long-term, passionate commitment to the truth (s) that astrology makes available.
Why stop now?" Martha Lang-Wescott
Plenty of research material there then ~ for those who are interested
as there are more than one hundred and fifty million of those little things in the form of asteroids to research
:smile:
 

waybread

Well-known member
I don't have any, but there are software programs that enable you to input asteroids into a chart, by name, number, or degree. I don't know where the "millions" figure comes from, because we would probably work only with those that seemed meaningful, and that have a worked-out ephemeris.

The Astrodienst free charts pages will allow you to input any asteroid whose orbit through the zodiac has been calculated. As of today there are 17,224 of these-- not counting dwarf planets.

Then again, we could get into fixed stars and Arabian parts (major and minor,) minor essential and accidental dignities, or all of the angels presumably ruling the various planets and stars.

The sky truly is the limit.
 

Moondancing

Premium Member
I don't have any, but there are software programs that enable you to input asteroids into a chart, by name, number, or degree.

I use Intrepid Software and you can choose Superbirth chart and you get a tri-wheel with 80 astroids. Same with a mid-point chart and they post 78 mid-points. It seems overwhelming at first glance but it's like walking outside on a sunny day, at first it blinds you but your eyes adjust and you see clearly. When you know your chart, your eyes go exactly to where you want to focus and all else fades into the background.

I don't know where the "millions" figure comes from, because we would probably work only with those that seemed meaningful, and that have a worked-out ephemeris.

Exactly. Although I've got to say once you learn that the other asteroids relating to your subject tell you more of the story, you are drawn to search for them to see their impact. Even if it's just to see that an asteroid can impact your life in a most succinct way.

The Astrodienst free charts pages will allow you to input any asteroid whose orbit through the zodiac has been calculated. As of today there are 17,224 of these-- not counting dwarf planets.

Wescott has researched 80 (up from 39 in 1988) that meets her standards that an asteroid will manifest reliably as events happen in your life. I bought this book a couple of years ago and I drug it out of the drawer to reply to this post. She has a method of practice with monthly returns that turns the spot light on asteroids and how they work. I'm hooked. :)

Then again, we could get into fixed stars and Arabian parts (major and minor,) minor essential and accidental dignities, or all of the angels presumably ruling the various planets and stars.

The sky truly is the limit.

All the tools of the trade. Of late she has been studying medical astrology and it will be worth seeing if asteroids can bring more precision to this practice.



Moondance
 

waybread

Well-known member
The myths work very well when they are studied in depth and breadth. Trouble is, few astrologers bother to dig sufficiently into the mythology to know whether the myths apply or not.
 

Bjorkstrand

Well-known member
People don't want to work hard to get at the truth. So they rely on myths.
They are going to have trouble with 2007 OR10.
DO the homework.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Bjorkstrand, a serious study of mythology is homework. Generally unnamed asteroids and planets get names approved by the International Astronomical Union-- in due course.

Moreover, quantitative statistical studies of horoscopes-- if that's what you're thinking of, have a very poor record of demonstrating significance-- including the Gauquelins'.
 

Moondancing

Premium Member
Thought I'd post my first trial with a lunar return and asteroids. Wescott promised and delivered! I started with a precessed-corrected lunar return and focused strictly on the angles. I drew my own chart and labeled the angles with my lunar calculations and in the inner wheel I noted the natal houses that were coming into focus for this month. At each angle I put the transiting and natal/lunar planets and asteroids within 10 degrees of the angle, focusing on the ones ahead of it as it moves counter clockwise.

My 11th house comes to the Virgo asc. with Venus and asteroids Hebe (co-defending/support), Kalypso (hide/conceal), Circe (help, assistance) and Lilith (rejection). My 8th house comes to Gemini M.C. with the asteroid Grieve and Mercury. Fourth house has asteroid Tantalus (taunt, tests others).

The other day I was cleaning one of my business' and the manager was there with whom I have a friendly acquaintance. I asked him if he'd been on vacation and his reply was yes, to Puerto Rico and going through a divorce. He went on to say that while on vacation with his wife and other family members he caught his wife texting a man she's having an affair with. The result was he sent her on the next flight home and he was now in the office getting all the paperwork in order for the divorce. (Gemini/Mercury = Quick action!)

Granted, the points and planets tell the story. The asteroids add the color.

Moondance
 

Horus

Well-known member
Pallas is probably the most well placed body in my chart and I wonder if that has any positive effect on me or if asteroids even matter. There isn't much info on aspects to asteroids. But as I can see I have Pallas sextile Jupiter , trine Uranus, and semi-sextile moon. It is the only trine in my chart (other than vesta trine Juno, 2 other asteroids) and the only positive aspect to the moon and Jupiter, so I would hope Pallas acts as a saving grace for me. Does anyone else have aspects to asteroids?

Pallas is in Taurus 10th house sextile Jupiter in cancer 12th house
Trine Uranus in Capricorn 6th house
Semi-sextile moon in Aries 9th house

Bob Marks takes a crack at interpreting the placement and aspects of the major asteroids. Have a look here:

http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/Pallas21.2.html
 

graay ghost

Well-known member
I'm not sure if I agree with his ideas about Juno on the ascendant. An article on Astropost seems to propose the idea that people with Juno on the ascendant are more "married to themselves" and therefore marry late or not at all. Of course, since the article was written, George Clooney did get married again... at 53.
 

Moondancing

Premium Member
Here is a brief guide to the complete astrological family tree.

Venus had a son and his name was Cupid (Cupido). He married Psyche, so she is the daughter-in-law of Venus.
Venus had a husband and his name was Vulcan (Vulcanus). She betrayed him with Mars, her lover.
Jupiter had a wife and her name was Juno. He had three daughters – Minerva, Fortuna and Diana. He had two sons – Apollo and Bacchus.
Apollo had a son and his name was Aesculapius. Chiron was a teacher figure in this branch of the family tree. Aesculapius had two daughters, Hygeia and Panacea.
Saturn had a wife and her name was Ops.
Saturn had a daughter and her name was Vesta.
Neptune had a wife and her name was Salacia.
Pluto had a wife and her name was Proserpina. Her mother was Ceres – so she is the mother-in-law of Pluto.

The idea is when you want to reference Jupiter in your chart you need to consider the whole family. Jupiter is a benevolent father and represents expansion. How well you grow your fortunes depends a lot on who you marry so add Juno to the mix of areas to study.

And what child does not try their hardest to please such a wonderful father and gain favor. Look at his children such as Minerva (Pallas by another name) to see how successfully and where you carry those skills into the world. Can you see how one would develop the skills to recognize patterns, to arrange and re-arrange relationships to win approval and lead one to having the ability to also recognize patterns in other mundane aspects of life?

Following in his father's footsteps, look to Apollo to see where you lead others and set an example. Or, how others may want to imitate you.

So, in regards to the OP who has Pallas in the 10th, those skills will be to their greatest effect in their career. With the Jupiter trine, I would think to great success but ariescancer feels more like a doormat so further study needs to be done to see what else is happening in the chart.

Go beyond the myth? That's what gives order to astrology, imo.

Moondance
 

waybread

Well-known member
Helpful genealogy, Moondance!

For anyone seriously interested in Graeco-Roman mythology, I strongly recommend www.theoi.com and Robert Graves, The Greek Myths. Both are detailed and comprehensive, with citations of the original sources in ancient Greek and Latin. These two are specifically Greek sources, but the Romans adopted a lot of Greek mythology wholesale, primarily changing the names or assimilating some of their local gods (like Ceres) to the Greek mythology. The ancient myths had multiple versions, and the theogonies do not all agree with one another on parentage.

Minerva/Pallas Athena was a warrior goddess, typically depicted with a helmet, shield, and spear.

I'm not sure where the association with asteroid Pallas with pattern recognition came from. Do you know, Moondance? It's not something one would normally associate with a profession or obvious personal quality.

Apollo/Apollo was originally a god of prophecy, music, and healing; but late in his career he became assimilated to the sun god Phoebus/Helios. (Jupiter himself was originally a rain god.)

Some of the myths show a dark side to even beneficent deities. Venus (Aphrodite) hated her daughter-in-law, and gave her several seemingly impossible trials to perform. Venus also engaged in a spiteful contest with Proserpina (Persephone) for the love of Adonis.

Jupiter (Zeus) was quite the philanderer. His promiscuity made Juno (Hera) frequently jealous. Devout ancient Greeks revered him as king of the gods, yet skeptics found his tales of polyamory to be an embarrassment. Whether he was a "wonderful father" in our modern sense of child rearing is doubtful.

Diana is the Greek Artemis. She seemingly represents the new crescent moon (hence depictions of her as a virgin goddess hunting with a bow,) whereas Hecate (Hekate) was the waning crescent moon. The full moon might have been Juno, but more probably Luna in Latin (Greek Selene or Phoebe.)
Fortuna is Tyche in Greek.

Greek astrologers and astronomers still use their own names.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Pallas is probably the most well placed body in my chart and I wonder if that has any positive effect on me
or
if asteroids even matter.
As is usual, whether asteroids even matter is an individual choice :smile:

There are in fact MILLIONS of asteroids
http://www.universetoday.com/97571/how-many-asteroids-are-out-there/
and literally more than eighty thousand asteroids conjunct each degree of every natal chart
and that's plenty of research awaiting those eager to begin
because more asteroids are being discovered daily

early humans observed the skies
and began to wonder regarding the bright shining objects visible at night time after sunset

so
Why are Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn even visible at night time after sunset?

that's because
Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn reflect the light of our Sun


and what gives Planets greater power?
For example in Horary, when is Moon stronger?
Moon is stronger or more powerful when Increasing in Light.
Moon is weaker or less powerful when Decreasing in Light.
The older terms are Waning (Decreasing) and Waxing (Increasing).
And that is based on synodic cycles.
So as Moon elongates or moves away from Sun, Moon Increases in Light and becomes stronger,
up until the Preventional Point - the Moon's opposition to Sun which gives us the Full Moon.
From that point on, Moon is moving toward the Conjunctional
a conjunction with Sun (and a New Moon or possibly even an Eclipse)

and, as one of our members BobZemco highlighted
Planets do the same.
As Planets move away from Sun, they Increase in Light and become stronger
but as Planets move toward Sun, they Decrease in Light and become weaker.
And why is that?
What do [some of] the Planets do?
Well, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn hurl Rays and cast Light
(Uranus, Neptune and Pluto do not and neither do asteroids).
While the Planets actually hurl Rays, they don't really cast Light,
rather they reflect light from Sun


and so planets are visible
because planets reflect the light from the sun
and
asteroids do not reflect sufficient light from the sun to make them visible :smile:


There isn't much info on aspects to asteroids.
because asteroids are so very recent on the astrological scene
it's mostly guess work
and research is required

whereas Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn
have been observed, studied and verified for thousands of years


But as I can see I have Pallas sextile Jupiter , trine Uranus, and semi-sextile moon.
It is the only trine in my chart (other than vesta trine Juno, 2 other asteroids) and the only positive aspect to the moon and Jupiter, so I would hope Pallas acts as a saving grace for me.
Does anyone else have aspects to asteroids?
Everyone has aspects to asteroids
that's simply because there are millions of asteroids

Pallas is in Taurus 10th house sextile Jupiter in cancer 12th house
Trine Uranus in Capricorn 6th house
Semi-sextile moon in Aries 9th house
natal Aries Moon is in a visible square aspect with Jupiter in Cancer

 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I'm not sure if I agree with his ideas about Juno on the ascendant.

An article on Astropost seems to propose the idea that people with Juno on the ascendant are more "married to themselves"
and therefore marry late or not at all. Of course, since the article was written, George Clooney did get married again... at 53.
and also
Pallas is about graphics, how things appear. That's all.

The myth doesn't work.
Clearly modern astrologers disagree on the application of myths to asteroids :smile:


When an asteroid is first discovered, it is given a provisional designation


for example "1999 RQ36."

The first four digits tell you what year it was discovered.
The last four characters inform as to when in that year it was discovered.
1999 RQ36 was the 916th object observed in the first half of September, 1999.
Once the asteroid's orbit is precisely known, it is issued an official sequential number.
1999 RQ36 was the 101,955th asteroid to receive a number, so it is now formally known as 101955.
Only about 5% of numbered asteroids have been given names
http://www.planetary.org/get-involved/contests/osirisrex/guidelines.html

The Minor Planet Center at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory gives asteroids these alphanumeric codes.
The asteroid's discoverer can propose to the International Astronomical Union to give the asteroid a formal name.
The International Astronomical Union has established rules to guide the selection of names
for objects located in different parts of the solar system
.
 

Moondancing

Premium Member
I'm not sure where the association with asteroid Pallas with pattern recognition came from. Do you know, Moondance? It's not something one would normally associate with a profession or obvious personal quality.

The problem here I think is people are associating pattern recognition as an analytical process and trying to distance themselves from the emotional, past family history thinking. It's a critical skill we all use to integrate information and give it meaning and knowing what to integrate and which to disregard. Astrology demands such skill.

Pallas represents the skill the child learned from having to take a great many variables into consideration and find a pattern to achieve their goal. As an adult he has developed the habit and ability to take a lot into consideration to see the pattern of change that has happened, is happening, or has the potential to happen in the environment. Highly coveted skill in many circles.

So much of what we do is driven by our subconscious and we aren't aware of the patterns we live by.


Apollo/Apollo was originally a god of prophecy, music, and healing; but late in his career he became assimilated to the sun god Phoebus/Helios. (Jupiter himself was originally a rain god.)

In the Roman days the young boys copied his hair style so he's come to represent what in you that others will imitate. But another interpretation of what Apollo represents in the chart is the area where you don't learn from your mistakes. Where Apollo is is where you are naive. Big difference from what another sees as representing a leader.

Some of the myths show a dark side to even beneficent deities. Venus (Aphrodite) hated her daughter-in-law, and gave her several seemingly impossible trials to perform. Venus also engaged in a spiteful contest with Proserpina (Persephone) for the love of Adonis.

Jupiter (Zeus) was quite the philanderer. His promiscuity made Juno (Hera) frequently jealous. Devout ancient Greeks revered him as king of the gods, yet skeptics found his tales of polyamory to be an embarrassment. Whether he was a "wonderful father" in our modern sense of child rearing is doubtful.

Yep, that represents more of what I remember from high school. My pollyana thinking seeping out. :) More than not Pallas learned how to navigate disfunction. As youngsters we see our father as a God we desperately want to please. Because of this origin, Pallas shows 'how the mind works' and what it's interested in by house, sign and aspect pattern.

I'm definitely not very learned on this subject and working this out through writing and getting feedback.

Appreciate your feedback, waybread! Yours too JA!

Moondance
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The problem here I think is people are associating pattern recognition as an analytical process and trying to distance themselves from the emotional, past family history thinking. It's a critical skill we all use to integrate information and give it meaning and knowing what to integrate and which to disregard. Astrology demands such skill.

Pallas represents the skill the child learned from having to take a great many variables into consideration and find a pattern to achieve their goal. As an adult he has developed the habit and ability to take a lot into consideration to see the pattern of change that has happened, is happening, or has the potential to happen in the environment. Highly coveted skill in many circles.

So much of what we do is driven by our subconscious and we aren't aware of the patterns we live by.

In the Roman days the young boys copied his hair style so he's come to represent what in you that others will imitate. But another interpretation of what Apollo represents in the chart is the area where you don't learn from your mistakes. Where Apollo is is where you are naive. Big difference from what another sees as representing a leader.

Yep, that represents more of what I remember from high school. My pollyana thinking seeping out. :) More than not Pallas learned how to navigate disfunction. As youngsters we see our father as a God we desperately want to please. Because of this origin, Pallas shows 'how the mind works' and what it's interested in by house, sign and aspect pattern.

I'm definitely not very learned on this subject and working this out through writing and getting feedback.

Appreciate your feedback, waybread! Yours too JA!

Moondance
Regarding the myth aspect of naming the more than one million asteroids
as an example,

here are the guidelines for naming (101955) 1999 RQ36:

Proposed names must be:

no more than 16 characters long (including any spaces or punctuation);
preferably one word;
pronounceable (in some language);
written using Latin characters (transliterations of names from languages not written using Latin characters are acceptable);
non-offensive;
not identical with or even too similar to an existing name of a minor planet or natural planetary satellite.

In addition, because (101955) 1999 RQ36 is a near-Earth object, its name should be from mythology,

but the name should not be one associated with creation or underworld themes

because those themes are used for other types of bodies in the solar system.

The mythological name can come from any culture from any part of the world


ASTEROID NAMING GUIDELINES
http://www.planetary.org/get-involved/contests/osirisrex/guidelines.html


In very rare cases
this definition has been stretched
to include fictional mythological characters :smile:


There are some exceptions to these rules
and entries of names that are not mythological will not be disqualified
.

However,
the
International Astronomical Union is likelier to approve a name that is from mythology than one that is not.
 

Moondancing

Premium Member
JA, has anyone successfully explained how the planets affect us from millions of miles away?

Yes, asteroid studies are in it's infancy, still intelligent people find it compelling enough to keep taking the baby steps to reach better understanding.

Moondance
 
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graay ghost

Well-known member
JA, has anyone successfully explained how the planets affect us from millions of light years away?

Yes, asteroid studies are in it's infancy, still intelligent people find it compelling enough to keep taking the baby steps to reach better understanding.

Moondance

Which planets are we talking about that are millions of lightyears away? Even Pluto is about 340 lightminutes from the sun. the Andromeda Galaxy is a few million lightyears away, but I don't think anyone has proposed using bodies from there in astrology.

And as for planets affecting us... I mean, the moon and sun obviously affect life on Earth. Other than that, Jupiter has so much gravity that it affects comets and asteroids in the inner solar system. Other than that, I'm not sure.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JA, has anyone successfully explained how the planets affect us
from millions of light years away
?
I'm surprised that anyone is under the impression that planets such as Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn are light years away from earth :smile:
Fixed stars are light years away
Fixed stars are not planets

our planetary system consists of Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn

Sun = 93 million MILES distant from earth
Mercury = approximately 48 million MILES distant from earth
and so on

Yes, asteroid studies are in it's infancy,
still intelligent people find it compelling enough to keep taking the baby steps to reach better understanding.

Moondance
irrespective of the intelligence factor :smile:
to highlight that the delineation of more than one million asteroids
is a mammoth task
requiring far more than 'baby steps'
~ particularly since meticulous research is required ~
is stating the obvious
 
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