Madonna's Ascendant Isn't Virgo

[WeCareALot]

I believe that Madonna is an Aquarius rising which would support the 7PM birth time. That would put Saturn in her 10th house and give her a heavy 7th house influence. While it's true that Saturn tends to restrict what he touches, he also grants massive rewards when people put in the work. And when you look at Madonna's career, you can see she truly busted her a$$ from the bottom to get where she is today. She basically moved to New York from Nowhere, Michigan and became a popstar in a span of 2-3 years and has steadily built her career up since 1983. I see that as more of a Saturn in the 10th influence than Saturn in 4th, which she would have if her birth time were in the morning. Also, a lot of critics have made a big deal of Madonna using other people to accomplish her goals, whether that be songwriters, directors, or designers whose talents she can use to give her "cred" or simply employ. That sounds more like a 7th house trait than a strong 1st/12th house trait. Not to mention the fact that she's talked about often fearing being alone in life--another 7th house thing to say.

[savanna]

Originally Posted by WeCareALot

I believe that Madonna is an Aquarius rising which would support the 7PM birth time. That would put Saturn in her 10th house and give her a heavy 7th house influence. While it's true that Saturn tends to restrict what he touches, he also grants massive rewards when people put in the work. And when you look at Madonna's career, you can see she truly busted her a$$ from the bottom to get where she is today. She basically moved to New York from Nowhere, Michigan and became a popstar in a span of 2-3 years and has steadily built her career up since 1983. I see that as more of a Saturn in the 10th influence than Saturn in 4th, which she would have if her birth time were in the morning. Also, a lot of critics have made a big deal of Madonna using other people to accomplish her goals, whether that be songwriters, directors, or designers whose talents she can use to give her "cred" or simply employ. That sounds more like a 7th house trait than a strong 1st/12th house trait. Not to mention the fact that she's talked about often fearing being alone in life--another 7th house thing to say.

I agree, I think Saturn in the 10th has given her the longevity she has in her career.

Michael Jackson has Sag MC conjunct Saturn and Whitney Houston has Sag MC as well and they were Madonna's contemporaries in the 80's and 90's.

She also slightly reminds me of Barack Obama (Leo Sun/Aqu rising) in her ability of speaking to a crowd and getting the public excited about her ideas.

[earths]

I always thought it was accepted that she has Aquarius ASC, she actually said it on a TV programme, because she was very keen on astrology.

[savanna]

Originally Posted by earths

I always thought it was accepted that she has Aquarius ASC, she actually said it on a TV programme, because she was very keen on astrology.

That was before she stated recently that she does not know her ascendant because she does not know her birth time. She feels, according to her, that she is "50% Leo and 50% Virgo". Maybe her rising sign is Virgo or Leo. We will probably never know for sure.

[kailaniatsea]

Madonna's moon is in Virgo. Hence, why she feels split between Leo and Virgo.

[savanna]

With Virgo asc., she has her chart ruler in it's own sign on the asc. conjunct Moon and Pluto. Sun is also conjunct Virgo Pluto, but is in the final degrees of Leo. According to Astrotheme's calculations, she is 57.8% Virgo and 17.9% Leo.

I was thinking that since Madonna has said recently she does not know her birth time, how did she know she had Aquarius rising? My best guess is she went to an astrologer without knowledge of her birth time in the 80's and the astrologer came up with a rectified chart for her.

[savanna]

Her new album "Rebel Heart" is coming out and in her interviews to promote it recently, she has been asking all the interviewers their signs! As someone so into Astrology, I'm surprised she would not know her time of birth. I am starting to think she knows, but will not say.

The current record has "Rebel" in the title, how Aquarian! A result of Aquarius rising or Aquarius chiron conjunct Aquarius vertex (from the Virgo asc. chart)? Thoughts?

[Bunraku]

All her career she is preoccupied with her appearance and, at this stage of her life , gets work done almost before every major television appearance. Very vain and rich.

I vote Virgo.

[WeCareALot]

Now that I think about it, I'm starting to lean towards Virgo as well. But I'm not REALLY sure. There are placements and aspects that support both Aquarius and Virgo (specifically, the placement of Saturn in either the 4th or 10th and the stellium in either her 1st or 7th house). I originally voted Aquarius because she has often relied on business partnerships throughout her career and because she's very relationship-oriented in general. But that the latter could be explained by the heavy Pluto influence--I've noticed that Plutonic people seem VERY relationship and intimacy-oriented despite their relative independence. They seem to get lonely easily.

I also can't decide if her Saturn belongs in the 4th or the 10th. Saturn in the 10th would explain the longevity and respect she has in her career. But Saturn in the 4th explains the deep insecurity and emotional pain she felt from losing her mother at a young age (and how that led her to be ambitious in the first place).

So I'm not sure. If she does know her time of birth, it would be great if she could stop being so secretive and just mention it I could have sworn there was a video somewhere of her saying she was an Aqua rising. But in her Reddit AMA, she mentioned feeling 50% Virgo, 50% Leo. So I dunno.

[savanna]

The Virgo stellium really fits her like a glove, honestly. My vote was always for Aquarius rising when it comes to her, but it has slowly changed. I think her moon is conjunct Pluto and Mercury, which would mean an earlier birth time. Aqua rising is only possible in the evening and the moon moves to about 19 degrees, no longer being conjunct Mercury and Pluto (unless you really widened the orbs). Moon, Mercury, Pluto, Ascendant, Juno and Ceres all conjunct in Virgo makes for a powerful chart for a powerful figure like she is.

[theM]

Originally Posted by savanna

I was thinking that since Madonna has said recently she does not know her birth time, how did she know she had Aquarius rising? My best guess is she went to an astrologer without knowledge of her birth time in the 80's and the astrologer came up with a rectified chart for her.

That's probably the truth.I can really imagine that.
Madonna herself said that
-she is Aquarius Rising
-she was born at night
-she doesn't know her birth time/Rising sign
= all conflicting.

I'm still going with the hospital story and Virgo Rising because it seems to come of a neutral source and it could be true.
Maybe Madonna doesn't know herself that the hospital's archive has her birth time because civil registry offices didn't record it in 1958.

It also could be that Madonna just liked the idea of being a rebel and being Aquarius Rising.So she chose it...
Though from my experience most people with Aquarius influence are more constant and conservative - one of the many reasons
I'm now considering sidereal and/or factual astrology (actual constellations) to be possibly true...

[muchacho]

Originally Posted by savanna

That was before she stated recently that she does not know her ascendant because she does not know her birth time. She feels, according to her, that she is "50% Leo and 50% Virgo". Maybe her rising sign is Virgo or Leo. We will probably never know for sure.

Yup, I vote for Leo.

[savanna]

Originally Posted by muchacho

Yup, I vote for Leo.

Maybe she was born at 5:05 am with Uranus in Leo conjunct Ascendant giving that Aquarian influence?

[muchacho]

Originally Posted by savanna

Maybe she was born at 5:05 am with Uranus in Leo conjunct Ascendant giving that Aquarian influence?

No, not different birth time, just different ayanamsa. I'm testing the Tarun Chopra ayanamsa for quite some time now and I'm very happy with the results so far. In case of Madonna, it's Leo rising, with Sun, Moon, Mercury and Pluto in the 1st House. Uranus is in the 12th House on the cusp to the 1st House.

It just doesn't make sense that a Virgo rising would spend her life on a stage, and most of the time half naked.

[theM]

Originally Posted by muchacho

No, not different birth time, just different ayanamsa. I'm testing the Tarun Chopra ayanamsa for quite some time now and I'm very happy with the results so far. In case of Madonna, it's Leo rising, with Sun, Moon, Mercury and Pluto in the 1st House. Uranus is in the 12th House on the cusp to the 1st House.

It just doesn't make sense that a Virgo rising would spend her life on a stage, and most of the time half naked.

Many eccentric and flamboyant people have Virgo Rising.
Lady Gaga, Hugh Hefner, Annie Lennox, the Kaulitz twins, Dolly Parton and Nina Hagen all have.I'm just saying.
The neat and plain shrinking violet is a bad preconception.

[kewf1988]

She definitely looks like an Aquarius rising... the eyebrows (the main thing I look for when I do a chart for someone without a TOB, along with other features like the nose for Taurus rising, the entire face for Capricorn rising, the eyes for all the water signs, etc.) are typical for Aquarius rising and her face has the look of an air sign rising. I'm a Virgo rising and my eyebrows are a lot like Gemini rising, but bushy, and my overall look is kinda earthy. There is nothing that looks like Virgo rising in Madonna's face.

[savanna]

She looks like she has the moon on the ascendant in this picture.

[Melaike]

Is this chart probable in your opinion ; Leo rising ,,Moon in the first house ?



I think Mars on MC square Uranüs suits her.

[savanna]

She was born in the morning according to an article in a local journal:

But, some of you may not be aware that Madonna Louise Ciccone was born in Bay City at 7:05 AM on August 16, 1958 at the old Mercy Hospital quite unexpectedly. Her parents, Sylvio Anthony (Tony) Ciconne (6 Jun 1931-) and Madonna Louise Fortin (2 Jul 1932, Bay City - 1 Jan 1963, Pontiac) were here visiting relatives when her mother who was pregnant at the time went into labor. It may have been written in the stars that the faithful event should happened here!

http://bay-journal.com/utl/ml/articl...8-madonna.html

Another local organization, Michigan Rock & Roll Legends, says Madonna "was born in Mercy Hospital at 7:05 a.m. on August 16, 1958, in the Maternity Ward on the 4th floor". http://www.michiganrockandrolllegend...s-madonna-tour

I wonder if they have access to the hospital records for the day Madonna was born.

[Tla26]

She said in this interview that her AC was Aquarius: https://youtu.be/SHSdnS8JDT4

[savanna]

Originally Posted by Tla26

She said in this interview that her AC was Aquarius: https://youtu.be/SHSdnS8JDT4

This interview is from the early 90's. In 2011, she said she did not know her rising sign/time of birth. The chart she talks about here is probably a rectification from a professional astrologer.

[Arena]

With a sidereal zodiac used she has her Moon in Leo and Sun on border of Cancer-Leo. From all her persona, her expressions and the fact that she has been "queen of pop" for decades, that surely describes a person who is not unlikely very much a Leo. So with her 7.05 chart that would all be true by sidereal chart.

It is probably possible for someone very capable to rectify her chart, but this might just be her right chart. If someone rectified her chart to an Aquarius ASC many years back, that just means that her angles are within LEO-AQUARIUS... it does not tell us which angle.

We know she lost her mother at a very young age, I think she was 6-7 yrs of age. That would most probably show us Saturn or Pluto symbolism on angles in pr. solar arc or sidereal solar return.

We know that she became famous at a very young age and became a star and it was not 15 minutes of fame (like a progr. angle passing by the Sun) ... it is long lasting fame. That could be a Sun on ASC or close to it. She is very self absorbed, self occupied - which is also a Sun quality/expression.

We know that she was raped when she had just arrived in NYC, I think she was 19-20 yrs at the time. That could be a sidereal solar return with Mars on angle, or it could be a progressed or solar arc Mars to angle.

We also know that she got married twice - those timings should show us either Venus or Jupiter or both on angles in progressed, solar arc or solar return....sometimes also a Moon-Uranus symbolism because it is a time of excitement for many.

We know she has received awards and we will probably see Jupiter symbolism to her MC for those types of events.

[Dubyadude1986]

She reminds me of a Libra ascendent. Cancer MC, especially the music.

"Oh god I think I'm dying. Heaven help me."

[Petinhse]

The thick hairline and the round face(moon rising in virgo). She has to have virgo rising which puts the Saturn in sag in her fourth house and she lost her mom at a young age. Marilyn Monroe had Saturn in house four and she was sent to an orphanage.