Is Robert Wagner guilty?
- Thread starter ElenaJ
- Start date
HeartTree
Well-known member
It seems concerning election questions people disagree is they can be asked. (Will election results effect enough one personal life to be asked
)
Oddity
Well-known member
Bonatti wrote in Latin, which Lilly was quite capable of reading and writing. Bonatti might have known Greek. He did know Arabic, and translated a lot of the Arabic astrologers in his opus.
Lilly, and Teucer in Germany, were the odd ones for writing astrology books in the vernacular.
Lilly, and Teucer in Germany, were the odd ones for writing astrology books in the vernacular.
SunConjunctUranus
Well-known member
Osamenor
Staff member
Not with a valid answer, in my understanding, unless the question is asked by one of the candidates. If a candidate is asking, "Will I win this election?" that's essentially the same as you or me asking, "Will I get this job?" when we're applying for a job. That's a question about you personally, where the significators are clear. Whatever is going on with the ruler of the first house, that tells us something about what's in store for you in this matter. If you're the candidate, your significator is going to say a lot about how the election goes for you. It is, basically, a career question.
But if Joe or Jane Citizen asks who will win the election, what's the significator going to be? Not the first house ruler, because that's the querent, and the querent isn't a candidate. All the candidates have the same relationship to the querent: stranger who's in the news. A horary chart can't distinguish one candidate from another, in that case.
If you want a sense of who's going to win the election, study the candidates' charts, progressions, transits, and compare them with the country's chart. Even that isn't necessarily going to tell you the winner, because that's a matter of interpretation. There were plenty of astrologically sound predictions that Hillary Clinton would win in 2016. There were also equally sound predictions for Trump.
SunConjunctUranus
Well-known member
@ElenaJ
The logic is extremely simple, the question is valid as my first post in your thread:
If I'm not asking this, you might not know horary question forever. You should be grateful for that.
Validating
R
The logic is extremely simple, the question is valid as my first post in your thread:
If I'm not asking this, you might not know horary question forever. You should be grateful for that.
Validating
R
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SunConjunctUranus
Well-known member
In addition if you don't know what mundane astrology is, I have very valuable quote from ms Osamenor:
And again:
R
And again:
You too
It doesn't matter, it's not an insult to learn from the rookie(s) whos know astrology since October 2018.
Best wishes
R
R
pinkyandperky
Well-known member
Hate to spoil your fun but I remember when this happened. She slipped when drunk and fell into the water. I would trust what the authorities did at the time. I’d be very careful with your words, you never knows who reads these things.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Davern, a family friend as well as Navy vet
was the captain that fateful weekend.
He has said in multiple interviews
—and in a book that he co-wrote with Marti Rulli
titled Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendour
that after Natalie Wood’s body was found
Wagner told him and Walken to stick to the original story.
That was the timeline that showed up in the 1981 coroner’s report:
Natalie went to bed first
when Wagner after chatting with Walken went to join her
he saw she was missing and so was the dinghy.
However
Davern now says, that wasn’t the whole truth
“The argument started the day before,”
Davern told Nancy Grace in a televised interview years later.
“The tension was going through the whole weekend.
Robert Wagner was jealous of Christopher Walken.”
According to Davern, Wood and Walken spent hours at a bar on Catalina Island
laughing and seemingly flirting.
When her husband showed up, he was fuming.
The four proceeded to have dinner at Doug’s Harbor Reef Restaurant, drinking champagne
two bottles of wine, and cocktails.
At one point, Wood or Walken threw a glass at the wall
employees of the restaurant told Finstad.
The restaurant manager saw how drunk the members of the group were becoming
and worried they would not be able to reach their yacht safely
when they staggered out just after 10 p.m.
Using their inflatable dinghy, Valiant, the group did reach Splendour that night
but Wood was dead hours before sunrise.
The story of what happened when the four of them returned to the yacht
has changed several times
According to Finstad’s book, Walken early on told the investigators
that he and Wagner got into a “small beef”
about a parent being away from young children
for an extended time shooting a movie, as Natalie was doing.
Apologies were made, and the spat died down.
However, in his most recent version
Davern says they resumed drinking wine
and that a very heated argument exploded
during which Wagner broke a bottle of wine on a table
and shouted at Walken, “Are you trying to f***k my wife?”
Davern said Walken left to go to his own room
“and that was the last I saw of him.”
Wood also left for her state room, with Wagner following
and Davern heard the ensuing loud quarrel.
While Davern did not see them at this point
he said he heard the argument continue on the deck of the boat
before “everything went silent.”
After a time, he decided to check on the situation
and found Wagner alone on deck, saying, “Natalie is missing.”
He asked Davern to start looking for her.
When his search was unsuccessful, Davern said he rejoined Wagner
who then told him, “The dinghy is missing too.”
With Natalie Wood being “deathly afraid of water,”
Davern says
he doubted she would have taken out the small boat herself.
He has said in multiple interviews that
Wagner
saying he didn’t want to attract bad publicity
refused to turn on the boat’s flood lights
and delayed calling for help.
Sheriff’s investigators have referred to a key witness statement from Marilyn Wayne
who happened to be in a boat moored 80 feet away at the time.
Wayne said that
around 11 p.m., she heard a woman calling out, saying,
“Somebody please help me, I’m drowning.”
The cries went on until almost 11:30 pm.
When Wayne’s boyfriend tried to call the harbormaster,
no one answered.
Also, there might have been a party on another boat
moored off the island, so they wondered if it was all a joke.
Most troubling, it seems there was a critical gap
before anyone learned Wood was missing.
Far from notifying authorities “immediately,”
according to Finstad’s reporting in her book
as well as Davern in his many television and print interviews
Wagner did not make the first call to shore until 1:30 a.m.
Lana Wood, Natalie’s younger sister, has often called for Wagner to say more
about what happened that night.
“She would never have left the boat like that, undressed, in just a nightgown,”
said Wood in one TV interview.
The sheriff’s department said in February
that the team is still working to see if more witnesses can still remember the night
and may help fill in the timeline
and provide more clues about when exactly Wood went into the water.
“We’re doing our last shot here to see if anyone else will come forward,”
said Corina at the press conference.
I am VERY familiar with this case. Robert Wagner did NOT kill his wife.
The captain & Natalie's sister are making money out of these false accusations.
In the end, it's always about money.
“The Wagner family … fully support the efforts of the sheriff's department and trust they will evaluate whether any new information comes from a credible source or those simply trying to profit from the 30-year anniversary of her tragic death."
And in this, Mr Wagner was backed by one of the original detectives, Duane Rasure.
“Obviously he [Davern] was trying to sell a book and make money off of it,” Mr Rasure told reporters in 2011.
“If I have ever the slightest inkling there was a murder, something suspicious, I would have worked it. I did not cover for anybody and I wouldn't cover for anybody.”
Mr Rasure added that he accepted Wagner’s explanation that he waited before raising the alarm because he had been under the impression she had gone ashore in the dinghy.
“He [Wagner] did call and have the people on the shore search,” Mr Rasure added.
"Mr Wagner has fully cooperated over the last 30 years in the investigation of the accidental drowning of his wife.
"Mr Wagner has been interviewed on multiple occasions by the Los Angeles sheriff's department and answered every single question asked of him by detectives during those interviews."
Natalie Wood had a severe drinking problem.
It's easier to point fingers than accept the reality that she slipped and fell while drunk.
She always had a fear of drowning. May she RIP and may the vultures circling over her body leave her in peace.
The captain & Natalie's sister are making money out of these false accusations.
In the end, it's always about money.
“The Wagner family … fully support the efforts of the sheriff's department and trust they will evaluate whether any new information comes from a credible source or those simply trying to profit from the 30-year anniversary of her tragic death."
And in this, Mr Wagner was backed by one of the original detectives, Duane Rasure.
“Obviously he [Davern] was trying to sell a book and make money off of it,” Mr Rasure told reporters in 2011.
“If I have ever the slightest inkling there was a murder, something suspicious, I would have worked it. I did not cover for anybody and I wouldn't cover for anybody.”
Mr Rasure added that he accepted Wagner’s explanation that he waited before raising the alarm because he had been under the impression she had gone ashore in the dinghy.
“He [Wagner] did call and have the people on the shore search,” Mr Rasure added.
"Mr Wagner has fully cooperated over the last 30 years in the investigation of the accidental drowning of his wife.
"Mr Wagner has been interviewed on multiple occasions by the Los Angeles sheriff's department and answered every single question asked of him by detectives during those interviews."
Natalie Wood had a severe drinking problem.
It's easier to point fingers than accept the reality that she slipped and fell while drunk.
She always had a fear of drowning. May she RIP and may the vultures circling over her body leave her in peace.
Not disputing what you know, I have no contact with anyone in the case and you're certainly better informed.
However, can you agree that reading comments like "she slipped and fell while drunk." makes sense, but how does that explain the missing dinghy?
Also, people on nearby yachts hearing someone calling for help, but no one on Wagner's yacht hearing anything, seems strange, doesn't it?
At any rate, he is now considered a "person of suspicion" since the case was reopened, there must be a reason for this procedure?
However, can you agree that reading comments like "she slipped and fell while drunk." makes sense, but how does that explain the missing dinghy?
Also, people on nearby yachts hearing someone calling for help, but no one on Wagner's yacht hearing anything, seems strange, doesn't it?
At any rate, he is now considered a "person of suspicion" since the case was reopened, there must be a reason for this procedure?
Books that are sensational sell better than the truth.
Christopher Walken's comments are truthful; he has no ax to grind like Natalie's sister or money to be made from selling books & giving interviews.
“What happened that night only she knows, because she was alone,” Walken said. “She had gone to bed before us, and her room was at the back. A dinghy was bouncing against the side of the boat, and I think she went out to move it. There was a ski ramp that was partially in the water. It was slippery — I had walked on it myself. She had told me she couldn’t swim; in fact, they had to cut a swimming scene from [Brainstorm]. She was probably half asleep, and she was wearing a coat.”
Walken suspected that Wood also might have hit her head before falling into the water.
An in-depth investigation in Vanity Fair from 2000 also attributed this quote to the actor.
“The people who are convinced that there was something more to it than what came out in the investigation will never be satisfied with the truth. Because the truth is, there is nothing more to it,” Walken said. “It was an accident.”
Christopher Walken's comments are truthful; he has no ax to grind like Natalie's sister or money to be made from selling books & giving interviews.
“What happened that night only she knows, because she was alone,” Walken said. “She had gone to bed before us, and her room was at the back. A dinghy was bouncing against the side of the boat, and I think she went out to move it. There was a ski ramp that was partially in the water. It was slippery — I had walked on it myself. She had told me she couldn’t swim; in fact, they had to cut a swimming scene from [Brainstorm]. She was probably half asleep, and she was wearing a coat.”
Walken suspected that Wood also might have hit her head before falling into the water.
An in-depth investigation in Vanity Fair from 2000 also attributed this quote to the actor.
“The people who are convinced that there was something more to it than what came out in the investigation will never be satisfied with the truth. Because the truth is, there is nothing more to it,” Walken said. “It was an accident.”
A person of 'suspicion' has NO legal meaning.
In other words, it's like saying that anyone is a 'person of iinterest'.
At one point, even Walken was considered a 'person of interest'.
It's completely meaningless.
But there are always going to be people who want to make money off the dead.
Dennis Davern: The boat captain, now 55 and living in Florida, has said different things about what happened that night, at first telling police it was an accident and later implying that something sinister happened.
And I'm certainly not going to re-hash the case here because I have no interest in convincing anyone of what I know to be the truth.
The chart does show a very late rising meaning that the question cannot be responded accurately. Probably because you already have a pre-conceived idea that he's 'guilty'. You are not without bias in this matter. But good luck in your attempt to uncover the truth. Happy New Year!
In other words, it's like saying that anyone is a 'person of iinterest'.
At one point, even Walken was considered a 'person of interest'.
It's completely meaningless.
But there are always going to be people who want to make money off the dead.
Dennis Davern: The boat captain, now 55 and living in Florida, has said different things about what happened that night, at first telling police it was an accident and later implying that something sinister happened.
And I'm certainly not going to re-hash the case here because I have no interest in convincing anyone of what I know to be the truth.
The chart does show a very late rising meaning that the question cannot be responded accurately. Probably because you already have a pre-conceived idea that he's 'guilty'. You are not without bias in this matter. But good luck in your attempt to uncover the truth. Happy New Year!
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Not biased, just curious. It was more an exercise in horary, since I have no vested interest whatsoever in the outcome, and I took advantage of the moment the question popped into my head to do the chart.
Yes, late degree on the ascendent, which could also mean the matter is already concluded.
Interesting the quote you wrote by Walken.
Also interesting all the comments in general about horary.
All summed up, quite stimulating, no?
Yes, late degree on the ascendent, which could also mean the matter is already concluded.
Interesting the quote you wrote by Walken.
Also interesting all the comments in general about horary.
All summed up, quite stimulating, no?
SunConjunctUranus
Well-known member
Folks, the map isn't valid to the horary question. Please don't discussing about the map again.
Reminding
R
Reminding
R
Thank you for the response. It was a good exercise for horary astrology. As to the exact meaning of the late Ascendant, here is an excellent explanation:
"...it is a strong indication that the question is either too late or too early; that the matter is already past being of interest or consequence, or, on the other hand, that the mind of the enquirer has not had sufficient time for consideration, or that certain important facts which would influence his mind have not yet appeared. In either case it is best to defer consideration of the question and wait for a more favorable time."
https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/horary-astrology/author/deluce-robert/
People need to do the research themselves if they want to avail themselves of the facts of any criminal investigation. Heck, there
are people out there who believe that Elvis is still alive eating his peanut butter/banana sandwiches & no amount of logic will
convince them otherwise.
"...it is a strong indication that the question is either too late or too early; that the matter is already past being of interest or consequence, or, on the other hand, that the mind of the enquirer has not had sufficient time for consideration, or that certain important facts which would influence his mind have not yet appeared. In either case it is best to defer consideration of the question and wait for a more favorable time."
https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/horary-astrology/author/deluce-robert/
People need to do the research themselves if they want to avail themselves of the facts of any criminal investigation. Heck, there
are people out there who believe that Elvis is still alive eating his peanut butter/banana sandwiches & no amount of logic will
convince them otherwise.
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
The mysterious death of Natalie Wood
Investigators say
Robert Wagner's story on Natalie Wood's death doesn't 'add up'
Lt. John Corina, of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department's homicide bureau
said in a press conference Monday
that the details Wagner has offered up on the fateful night
"really don't add up to what we've found.
He's a person of interest
because he's the last person with her
before she went in the water
This is a suspicious death investigation.
We want to know what happened
from the time of the argument to when she got into the water."
(CNN) https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/05/entertainment/natalie-wood/index.html
Do you actually know anything about this case other than the few chosen quotes which you copy/paste?
Have you studied the case?
Looked at the astrology charts?
Read the statements from everyone aboard the boat?
Robert Wagner has always been a 'person of interest'.
As I posted, this has no legal consequences or meaning and is a completely meaningless statement.
It's like saying that Walken is a 'person of interest'.
They have both been questioned and cleared by the police numerous times over the course of 35 years.
But Natalie's sister, the Captain & others are all making money doing interviews, podcasts, selling books. There's always money to be made off the dead.
In his 2009 book, "Pieces of My Heart," Wagner wrote that on that outing in November 1981, he became jealous and argued with both Wood and Walken. Later, he was unable to find his wife, searched the boat along with the captain and noticed the dinghy was missing. Wagner assumed his wife had gone ashore.
The dinghy was found about a mile from the yacht and a mile from where Wood's drowned body was found.
Dr. Phil had a 3 part special about this. Did you watch it.
It was revealed that Natalie very often would take the dinghy out by herself. But she was highly intoxicated the night of her death. She slipped & fell.
May she R.I.P.
Have you studied the case?
Looked at the astrology charts?
Read the statements from everyone aboard the boat?
Robert Wagner has always been a 'person of interest'.
As I posted, this has no legal consequences or meaning and is a completely meaningless statement.
It's like saying that Walken is a 'person of interest'.
They have both been questioned and cleared by the police numerous times over the course of 35 years.
But Natalie's sister, the Captain & others are all making money doing interviews, podcasts, selling books. There's always money to be made off the dead.
In his 2009 book, "Pieces of My Heart," Wagner wrote that on that outing in November 1981, he became jealous and argued with both Wood and Walken. Later, he was unable to find his wife, searched the boat along with the captain and noticed the dinghy was missing. Wagner assumed his wife had gone ashore.
The dinghy was found about a mile from the yacht and a mile from where Wood's drowned body was found.
Dr. Phil had a 3 part special about this. Did you watch it.
It was revealed that Natalie very often would take the dinghy out by herself. But she was highly intoxicated the night of her death. She slipped & fell.
May she R.I.P.
The mysterious death of Natalie Wood
Investigators say
Robert Wagner's story on Natalie Wood's death doesn't 'add up'
Lt. John Corina, of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department's homicide bureau
said in a press conference Monday
that the details Wagner has offered up on the fateful night
"really don't add up to what we've found.
He's a person of interest
because he's the last person with her
before she went in the water
This is a suspicious death investigation.
We want to know what happened
from the time of the argument to when she got into the water."
(CNN) https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/05/entertainment/natalie-wood/index.html
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
After 48 Hours revealed Robert Wagner
is a person of interest in Natalie Wood's mysterious death
the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department clarified the announcement.
Back in 2011, when Wood's case was re-opened
the LASD Homicide Detectives held a press conference
where it was announced Wagner was not a suspect.
According to a new bureau statement obtained by E! News
the department received "more than 100 tips" after the conference,
and the detectives "followed up on every single one."
"This resulted
in several new witness statements and information
more than 30 years after
the drowning death of Natalie Wood
For the first time
we have witness statements that portray
a new sequence of events
on the boat that night."
is a person of interest in Natalie Wood's mysterious death
the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department clarified the announcement.
Back in 2011, when Wood's case was re-opened
the LASD Homicide Detectives held a press conference
where it was announced Wagner was not a suspect.
According to a new bureau statement obtained by E! News
the department received "more than 100 tips" after the conference,
and the detectives "followed up on every single one."
"This resulted
in several new witness statements and information
more than 30 years after
the drowning death of Natalie Wood
For the first time
we have witness statements that portray
a new sequence of events
on the boat that night."
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Great thanksI have studied the case. Have you?
You have an agenda which I'm not interested in.
So I'll leave you/JupiterAC to your 'intel' from the web.
for those interested:
Natalie Wood death: 48 Hours documentary reveals details of why Robert Wagner is now
'person of interest'
Detectives tell CBS programme they have witnesses
who can corroborate the evidence of yacht skipper Dennis Davern
who claims he heard the actor in a drunken row with his wife
at the stern of the boat
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...acht-person-interest-chistopher-a8196001.html