Is he going to marry me?

anjelik

Well-known member
This is maybe the second time I've posted on the horary board, so please bear with me as I really have limited experience with this.

My question is around my relationship with my boyfriend. I am in London with him now and everything feels so wonderful and we are so in love it's almost sickening (in a cute way of course). Is he going to marry me? Yesterday he was talking about our children and he wants me to go to the store with him to help pick out some new things around his home. Outside of astrology I feel really confident in our relationship, but feel really giddy inside and thought I'd see what the stars have to say. :love:

ASC in Libra = Me
7th house Taurus = Him
Venus in Leo = Him
Venus is sextile the ASC

Does this look promising for love? If the rules are similar to reading a natal then this would look very promising because Venus is contacting the Ascendant. Correct?

Additionally, the moon is in Libra in the 1st house, which is ruled by Venus - so love is essentially the driving force here? Since it is in the 1st house does this make it even more significant?
 

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Mandy

Well-known member
Hi angelik,

Welcome to London. I hope you are enjoying the tropical weather!

From what I understand, there are strictures in horary against reading. One of those is Saturn in 1st house. Another is a void of course moon, which it is in your chart.

The moon is also your significator and the ruler of the sign he is in, and it is via combusta, which probably reflects the mutual feelings you describe.

A late ascendant suggests that you already know the answer.

Venus is a faster moving planet than Mars, so suggests that you may be just slightly ahead of him on this question.

Hopefully one of the experienced astrologers will chime in and proceed with the reading. If it is Bob, he will probably pour a bucket of water over my head for saying this, but I just drew a tarot card to ask your question. I got the 2/Wands. Wands are all about creating and action. Twos are the stage before completion. So, two would be thinking about a decision for action, whereas a three would be the decision is shown.

So, it is a time before the action is made, I'd say he is thinking seriously about it. It shows he wants more and is very passionate about establishing a plan for the future, he is just short of some courage. Maybe he is saving for a big ring.

It would be good to see if the horary confirms this.
 
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anjelik

Well-known member
Hi angelik,

Welcome to London. I hope you are enjoying the tropical weather!

From what I understand, there are strictures in horary against reading. One of those is Saturn in 1st house. Another is a void of course moon, which it is in your chart.

The moon is also your significator and the ruler of the sign he is in, and it is via combusta, which probably reflects the mutual feelings you describe.

A late ascendant suggests that you already know the answer.

Venus is a faster moving planet than Mars, so suggests that you may be just slightly ahead of him on this question.

Hopefully one of the experienced astrologers will chime in and proceed with the reading. If it is Bob, he will probably pour a bucket of water over my head for saying this, but I just drew a tarot card to ask your question. I got the 2/Wands. Wands are all about creating and action. Twos are the stage before completion. So, two would be thinking about a decision for action, whereas a three would be the decision is shown.

So, it is a time before the action is made, I'd say he is thinking seriously about it. It shows he wants more and is very passionate about establishing a plan for the future, he is just short of some courage. Maybe he is saving for a big ring.

It would be good to see if the horary confirms this.

Thank you very much for your response! LOL the tropical weather. If I hear one more Brit complain about how hot it is I am going to scream. My mother told me it's 102 in NYC right now - so glad I am not there at the moment!

I am not surprised that I am ahead of him on this one - aren't females always (or usually lol)? :) I do not think it will be immediately, but was hoping maybe by the end of the year some sort of decision or plan would be made :) I am just very happy - probably the happiest I have ever been with a man.

Another thing - I did notice that many astrologers use Mercury as the indicator of the person asking the question and Jupiter to represent the other person. Here we have Jupiter (him) trine Mercury (me), which would be very positive as well? Additionally, Jupiter is trine the ASC as well.

But Saturn in the 1st would equal a delay? I am ok with a delay, as I am not ready in the exact moment (as I mentioned) - but not a huge delay, like years and years and years...or never. Is Saturn in dignity in Scorpio?
 
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Mandy

Well-known member
Hi anjelik,

In this chart, he is definitely not sig. by Jupiter. However, he is conjunct Jupiter. From what I understand about Jupiter is that it is the traditional ruler of the 9th house, which deals with long distance travel, churches, "getting married." Thus if a marriage is on the cards, I imagine the 9th would need to be activated for sure. In this chart, not only is he sitting in your 9th house and conjunct Jupiter, which I take to suggest that marriage is strongly on his mind. But also Jupiter is the ruler of his 9th house. Which could mean coming together in marriage.

If any actual marriage is to take place, the 9th House, Jupiter and/or Sagittarius have to actively play a part in the reading of the horary question. http://www.navarroastrology.com/articles/article?article_id=3

The planets in the 1st house are your co-rulers. But the moon in general is the co-ruler of the situation too. He, in the 9th house, is further in the sign of Cancer (that represents the situation; you are on the same page) which is ruled by the moon and is in your house. However, Cancer is an intercepted sign, which can cause interference by the person/sign that the planet is in. Moon is in Libra, you, which could suggest some interference from you, but not prevention.

Any intercepted sign in the 1st House does not rule the one who posed the question. The intercepted sign indicates interference, especially if planets occupy the intercepted sign. The interference is coming from where the ruler or rulers of the intercepted sign are located. Interceptions do not prevent, they cause interference that may or may not need to be overcome...

http://www.navarroastrology.com/articles/article?article_id=3

From the same site:

A marriage cannot take place if none of the rulers of the 1st House are in any major aspect to any of the rulers of the 7th House. If there is a major aspect, and marriage is indicated, the aspect will describe the marriage. Only minor aspects between the rulers of the 1st and 7th House indicate a minor or transitory relationship. If the ruler of the 1st or 7th House is squared by another planet, especially a malefic, someone else will try to prevent the marriage.

Thus, the sign we speak of, the moon, the situation, is in a major aspect to Mars and to Jupiter. Your other (possible) co-ruler, by virtue of being in your house, Saturn is also in major aspect to Mars and Jupiter. All a trine, by sign and aspect (unbroken promises). All are harmonious aspects and all are by application. A trine is favoured for marriage. I imagine this means that whatever caused interference will be overcome or is insignificant.

Mars is in its fall in Cancer and in detriment by house, but Jupiter conjunct is exalted. Is there a possibility that he feels not good enough or unsure of whether the proposal will be accepted, or maybe by bringing up talk of children he was testing the water in regards to what you thought of a future with him? Some insecurity? As Mars is in very early Cancer, 2 deg, it probably indicates that is not completely ready (as you confirmed).

You, Venus, are in Leo, an angular house, you are dignified, ruler of Leo is also in the 9th house.

Him being Mars, Mars is not a slow moving planet, thus I imagine he may not wait long. I dont know how correct this is, but I have seen previously people delineate events by using the number of degrees of the aspect. Thus, if he does propose, I wonder if it will be within the 3-5 months. No doubt, however, this consideration is a matter of how the planets will behave, the speed of their movement, if they will Rx, how long for, etc. Unfortunately, I dont have knowledge about how that is calculated.
 

anjelik

Well-known member
Interesting that you bring up the 9th house. Our relationship is a long distance one. We met while I was in London 8 months ago and have been seeing each other every month since for about 10 days at a time. So perhaps the 9th also represents our foreign relationship as he is British and I'm an American. I am pretty sure the delay would be because of the distance. We are due for a talk on Friday about our future according to him (we have been busy with friends and such all week and he wants to have dinner and talk).

So Saturn being in the first house in this situation doesn't completely nullify the question? I am positive that he loves me and wants to be with me. I just want to know whether he will pull the trigger :) I guess time will tell. I'm cool with 5 months. That is my mental time line of when I would want to know whether I'm wasting my time on this or not! He knows I would move here and he said we would move back together in 2-3 yrs. which I'm fine with because I love Europe and the exposure to different cultures.
 

wca

Well-known member
I didn't read through everything that was mentioned above but wanted to make a few comments.

1st house represents querent: Libra on cusp, Venus in Leo in 10th.
7th house represents quesited: Aries on cusp, Mars in Cancer in 9th.

Moon will act as general significator of the question. she's in the late degrees of Libra in the first, applying to Saturn.

Venus is applying in a (very wide) sextile to Mars, which is an argument in favor of union. we would hope for there to be reception here to help seal the matter, but unfortunately we don't find that.

I'm concerned about the Moon here. she moves to trine Mars (a debilitated malefic, showing the easy flow of hostile energy), then conjunct Saturn (disappointment, responsibility, heavy weight). the Moon is about to move into Scorpio, where she will be in her fall. as it is she's in the via combusta.. there's something that has yet to play itself out in this relationship that will sour your taste of the whole affair. I don't see anything positive in the Moon applying to a trine of Mars while she's in Scorpio, nor joining Saturn in the same sign. this is akin to aspectual besiegement and spells disaster. worried that Mars rules the second house..

keep an eye out. something feels off and dishonest here.
 

anjelik

Well-known member
Thanks for your interpretation as well, wca. I have Venus square Pluto natally so I'm always suspicious of people's motives - especially lovers! He happens to have Venus square Mars natally (like the horary chart his Mars is in Cancer). Does any of this have any impact on the horary as well? Just asking because you mentioned the Moon moving into Scorpio.
 
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anjelik

Well-known member
I'm on my iPhone so I apologize for not quoting in reply.

wca: do you think that perhaps Saturn conjunct the moon would just create a delay and not cancel the trine between mars and the moon? http://tribes.tribe.net/horary-astrology/thread/c22b6baf-993e-49a6-bfdc-9a0463de6634
Could Saturn in fact represent some sort of determination to overcome obstacles? Saturn isn't really a planet I am afraid of as I had a brutal Saturn return and I feel completely regenerated from the experience. I am a different person in certain aspects than when I began my journey. Maybe I'm being naive or ignorant but there has to be a silver lining with every placement, no? What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Also, could you expand upon what aspects make you feel there will deception? I am not really happy to hear something like that due to my own Pluto / Venus issues as I mentioned above and in previous posts started by me. I am pretty good at sniffing out a liar and I have a pretty strong grasp on reality when it comes to affairs of the heart (Venus in Capricorn). When the situation calls for it I have zero issues seeing things clearly, acting rationally, cutting my losses and keeping my dignity (most important to never be made a fool). Not sure I can say the same about my boyfriend whose Venus is in Pisces and has an extremely watery chart - Pisces stellium in the 12th house (sun, Venus and mercury).
 
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Mandy

Well-known member
Interesting that you bring up the 9th house. Our relationship is a long distance one. We met while I was in London 8 months ago and have been seeing each other every month since for about 10 days at a time. So perhaps the 9th also represents our foreign relationship as he is British and I'm an American. I am pretty sure the delay would be because of the distance. We are due for a talk on Friday about our future according to him (we have been busy with friends and such all week and he wants to have dinner and talk).

So Saturn being in the first house in this situation doesn't completely nullify the question? I am positive that he loves me and wants to be with me. I just want to know whether he will pull the trigger :) I guess time will tell. I'm cool with 5 months. That is my mental time line of when I would want to know whether I'm wasting my time on this or not! He knows I would move here and he said we would move back together in 2-3 yrs. which I'm fine with because I love Europe and the exposure to different cultures.

Dear A,

From what I understand, the horary is dealing with just your question and the situation as it pertains directly to your question (i.e., not natal configurations). I've thought further about this horary and will note my obs below.

Again, from what I understand (and I'll provide the reason below), Saturn does not need to be "bad" if it is a significator for something in the chart. Given that your whole question pertains to his wishes, is he going to/wanting to marry you, Saturn could well represent his 11th house of hopes and wishes. If this is the case, him being in your house could be a positive sign, as it relates to your question.

In the natal, one of the meanings of the 10th house is status. If that rule is also true in horary, as it probably is, it may not signify his hopes and wishes but, instead, status. As Saturn is in his 7th house, it could be some connection between marriage with you and status (in traditional astrology Saturn rules Aquarius). And marriage is, after all, a status. Look at you, Venus, you are in your 10th house of status, thinking about the status of marriage.

There is a great thread within this horary forum by a bunch of very well read and experienced astrologers. Here it is http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=480406#post480406 There is also a 1st house Saturn and moon in trouble, etc, so have a look for some clarification, if you like.

With that said about Saturn, the moon is in every bad way it could be:

* it is void.
* it is via combusta.
* heading into Scorpio (fall).
* rules an intercepted sign, located in Venus (you).

The moon, the situation, is not doing good. Saturn is applying to the moon by conjunction. I think that means they are working together?

The moon and Saturn are applying to the significator of your partner, Mars, and his focus on marriage (9th house/Jupiter; which seems to be there). Yet, Mars is debilitated and detrimented and only just entered the house.

I dont know that you can conclude lies. But it seems there is more to the story than you thought.

I know a woman who is very beautiful and very successful. She was in a marriage with a man, with equal credientials, for several years, and they have two children. The reason they divorced, in the end, was because it turned out he was gay! In his case, he got married for status.

Marriage is a status. But when the sig. of that status is conjunct the badly doing moon, something may be wrong with your partners concerns about status. I am sure he is not gay, that was just for illustration.

It may be worthy to note that your dispositor, the sun, squares the moon by separation. I dont know what this means. However, given that Venus is your significator, this is an important consideration. Perhaps wca (or anyone else) would be so kind to clarify. Given that it is a separation perhaps it is just referring to the hurdle that you were apart (distance), that is no longer a hurdle.
 

anjelik

Well-known member
Thanks Mandy. You have raised some more interesting points. The status thing I find the most interesting because his cousin (who I know in the US is the one that set us up to meet) said that he will take this to the next level (this was months ago) because I am a pretty blonde American with a good career. So that could signify as some sort of status? I've heard that British men consider attractive American girls sort of like a prize. I'm not saying this is his sole reason for being with me, but I would suspect this is one of the factors that has kept him interested enough to spend loads of money seeing me every month. Likewise for him - he is a tall and handsome British man with a solid career. I mean look at all of the movies where American women fall for the charming Englishman. My Venus is in Capricorn so status matters to me. I want to be proud of my man. I think it's mildly mutual and may be what initially attracted both of us.

Just to clarify, we are still not together permanently. I still live in NYC. Additionally, I am putting an expiration date on this carrying on in this fashion. I will give him until January and if there isn't a compelling enough reason for me to disrupt my entire life and move to be with him (i.e. marriage) then we will just have to look back on this as a great love story that never came to fruition. Not to mention I would need a work visa and I will not have that without marriage. I am not stupid enough to throw my life away for love. There is a three month grace period to obtain a spouse visa in the UK for work. I likely would not want to move before I have obtained that. We are having a talk tomorrow so I am interested in what he will have to say and I will likely say something similar up just that. I've said in the past that if we can't make it work we should just break up and he gets upset.

So maybe Saturn does represent me? Perhaps I am the road block? I just reread what I wrote and it sounds very cold. Ha!
 
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Mandy

Well-known member
No worries. I hear all of that. IMO, Saturn has to be his co-significator because of the very nature of your question.

Status seems to be at stake to some significant degree, for you both, but perhaps not for the same reasons.

Further, initially, when you said you would give it five months anyway, I did think that was a bit short for a man one loves. However, given your situation, which you have obviously thought through, that is actually very long period because of several other practical things that need to be considered, such as your career (cor, lol, I bet your friends have alluded to the Bradshaw/Petrowski subtext). What is more, he is acknowledging this too because you have made those considerations, and their importance, clear to him. In turn, he clearly understands.

Taken together, looking at the chart, he realises that he may need to decide to get married. He seems not too comfortable with this.

wca says:

worried that Mars rules the second house

I wonder whether there may be a prenup involved.
 

anjelik

Well-known member
Yes, he's very aware of what I would have to give up. He just lost his mother not even a year ago so he doesn't want to leave his father. I'm understanding of the situation. Especially since he also lost a sibling years back. I think he feels he owes it his father to be there for him. He loves him dearly.

Marriage may not be comfortable for him. He has Uranus in his 7th house natally (16 degrees Scorpio). He also dated a girl for 9 yrs and they were engaged and ultimately broke up years ago. I think he realizes that he either marries me or loses me. I am also traditional and American. I'm not ok with having children and living together without the full commitment. I know that is a common thing over in the UK as he has several friends who have children with their girlfriends. That doesn't fly with me, which he is well aware of.

Prenup? Hmm I don't know he has enough that he should feel threatened I would ***** him. I earn more money than him and have a larger savings account (at least currently).

Haha sex and the city reference! Didn't even think of that but I am certainly no Carrie. What a pathetic character. Her choices always baffled me! So yeah, no commitment, no move. As the current popular pop term in the US goes: "ain't nobody got time for that!"

Back to the question of status. For me this relationship would mean giving up everything that defines me as a woman - which is fiercely independent. If I moved for someone the perception (in my eyes) would be that I am weak and stupid. It's definitely not something I'm taking lightly. I am not sure what is at stake for him, but perhaps his independence as well. Isn't that normally what frightens men about marriage and why women have been coined with the term "ball and chain?" Maybe he's terrified to be legally bound to someone. I know I am. I was just talking to my best friend about this (who has a super Cappy / Aqua chart - sun, asc and mercury all in Cappy and moon and Venus in aqua)...she commented on how bold something like this is for me and that I need to be comfortable with the decision and realize nothing will ever be perfect. She stresses to me often that I have to realize that no relationship with be perfect and that a relationship comes with sacrifice and compromise. But back to the point..I normally would never even entertain the idea of marrying someone this soon. Not sure why he is making me throw my "rules" out the window. It makes me feel vulnerable and that is an uneasy feeling for me since I like to be driving the bus!
 
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anjelik

Well-known member
Just an addition..not sure he is afraid of marriage or maybe be is confused? Or maybe I am the blockage in this whole scenario. I am beginning to think that may be the case. We went to Costco yesterday and when he signed up for membership he listed my name as his spouse and I even had to take a photo and got my own card. I didn't say a word and just pretended I didn't think anything of it. I was kind of shocked though. I mean I'm clearly not his spouse but the gesture was grandiose in my opinion. I wouldn't have listed him on my application.

So if Saturn is my co-sig then we have a trine between Saturn and Mars and Saturn and Jupiter. Wouldn't this represent us coming together in a focused manner to achieve goals in a realistic manner? Saturn trine mars indicates there will be hard work and drive. Saturn trine mars would bring out the best in mars, no? I thought that Saturn would make Mars more focused and require him to channel his energy in a more direct and constructive manner. Does this not apply because Mars in Cancer is in detriment (my bf has this natally btw)? Does the fact that Saturn is exalted in Libra do anything to cancel the negative aspects of Mars being in that sign? Would Libra's need for balance help to redirect possible destruction of Mars in cancer because of the trine? The same goes for Jupiter - however Saturn would slightly restrain and cause Jupiter to slow it down and force realism. He being both Mars and Jupiter and me being Saturn. I am the one who has more to lose so it seems Saturn representing me makes the most sense. If he had it his way I would quit my job and move in with him tomorrow. I am only a beginner so I could be way off!

In terms of synastry I am always Saturn 9 times out of 10 so I wouldn't be surprised if it were me here. Saturn is my chart ruler. And Mars is his (if we are going on Ascedants).
 
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wca

Well-known member
wca: do you think that perhaps Saturn conjunct the moon would just create a delay and not cancel the trine between mars and the moon? http://tribes.tribe.net/horary-astrology/thread/c22b6baf-993e-49a6-bfdc-9a0463de6634
Could Saturn in fact represent some sort of determination to overcome obstacles? Saturn isn't really a planet I am afraid of as I had a brutal Saturn return and I feel completely regenerated from the experience. I am a different person in certain aspects than when I began my journey. Maybe I'm being naive or ignorant but there has to be a silver lining with every placement, no? What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

that kind of perspective could work in natal, but not in horary. plain and simple, this is not a "silver lining" kind of arrangement. the Moon coming to Saturn is never wholly fortunate, and this example is probably one of the more damaging Moon-Saturn conjunctions -- Saturn is peregrine, meaning he shows absolutely no concern for the damage he incurs, and the Moon will be in her fall. and you never want Saturn on an angle like he is.. just not a good lineup, no matter what spin you try to put on it.

Also, could you expand upon what aspects make you feel there will deception? I am not really happy to hear something like that due to my own Pluto / Venus issues as I mentioned above and in previous posts started by me. I am pretty good at sniffing out a liar and I have a pretty strong grasp on reality when it comes to affairs of the heart (Venus in Capricorn). When the situation calls for it I have zero issues seeing things clearly, acting rationally, cutting my losses and keeping my dignity (most important to never be made a fool). Not sure I can say the same about my boyfriend whose Venus is in Pisces and has an extremely watery chart - Pisces stellium in the 12th house (sun, Venus and mercury).

I don't want to jump to suggesting he's a liar. that isn't the same as saying that there's something dishonest in the whole situation. maybe expectations aren't exactly clear, or someone's thinking they're going to get something out of this that they aren't. his significator is cadent and debilitated -- read what Lilly says about debilitated Mars and you'll see that this is quite disagreeable given you are looking to marry this person.

I want to clarify my comment about Mars ruling your second house. given he is represented by Mars, and Mars also governs your house of earned income, my concern is that your finances could get entangled up in this in some disastrous way should this continue.

to address some other comments you made:

So if Saturn is my co-sig then we have a trine between Saturn and Mars and Saturn and Jupiter..

we can pause right there, as Saturn is not your significator. Venus is.

Wouldn't this represent us coming together in a focused manner to achieve goals in a realistic manner? Saturn trine mars indicates there will be hard work and drive. Saturn trine mars would bring out the best in mars, no? I thought that Saturn would make Mars more focused and require him to channel his energy in a more direct and constructive manner. Does this not apply because Mars in Cancer is in detriment (my bf has this natally btw)? Does the fact that Saturn is exalted in Libra do anything to cancel the negative aspects of Mars being in that sign? Would Libra's need for balance help to redirect possible destruction of Mars in cancer because of the trine? The same goes for Jupiter - however Saturn would slightly restrain and cause Jupiter to slow it down and force realism. He being both Mars and Jupiter and me being Saturn. I am the one who has more to lose so it seems Saturn representing me makes the most sense. If he had it his way I would quit my job and move in with him tomorrow. I am only a beginner so I could be way off!

I'm sorry my dear, but it must be said that yes, this is way off. you can psychologize the heck out of this (as you have) if we were looking at a natal chart, but this simply doesn't work in horary. notice that your significator, Jupiter, is entangled in a messy grand trine with Neptune and Saturn.. this adds a degree of confusion, self-deception (Neptune) and, quite honestly, denial (peregrine Saturn).

ride the relationship out and take it day by day, but don't expect a proposal. I would suggest taking the first exit out.
 
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anjelik

Well-known member
that kind of perspective could work in natal, but not in horary. plain and simple, this is not a "silver lining" kind of arrangement. the Moon coming to Saturn is never wholly fortunate, and this example is probably one of the more damaging Moon-Saturn conjunctions -- Saturn is peregrine, meaning he shows absolutely no concern for the damage he incurs, and the Moon will be in her fall. and you never want Saturn on an angle like he is.. just not a good lineup, no matter what spin you try to put on it.



I don't want to jump to suggesting he's a liar. that isn't the same as saying that there's something dishonest in the whole situation. maybe expectations aren't exactly clear, or someone's thinking they're going to get something out of this that they aren't. his significator is cadent and debilitated -- ready what Lilly says about debilitated Mars and you'll see that this is quite disagreeable given you are looking to marry this person.

I want to clarify my comment about Mars ruling your second house. given he is represented by Mars, and Mars also governs your house of earned income, my concern is that your finances could get entangled up in this in some disastrous way should this continue.

to address some other comments you made:



we can pause right there, as Saturn is not your significator. Venus is.



I'm sorry my dear, but it must be said that yes, this is way off. you can psychologize the heck out of this (as you have) if we were looking at a natal chart, but this simply doesn't work in horary. notice that your significator, Jupiter, is entangled in a messy grand trine with Neptune and Saturn.. this adds a degree of confusion, self-deception (Neptune) and, quite honestly, denial (peregrine Saturn).

ride the relationship out and take it day by day, but don't expect a proposal. I would suggest taking the first exit out.

Wow I appreciate your candor. I've never been one to pussy foot around anyway. I will see it through, as I do love him. But as I mentioned I do have a time line and I'm a woman of my word. The last thing I will ever let happen is someone drag me through the mud. I feel as though my armor is on again and I try so hard to shed it in order to get close to someone!
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
My question is around my relationship with my boyfriend. I am in London with him now and everything feels so wonderful and we are so in love it's almost sickening (in a cute way of course). Is he going to marry me?

Not likely. He might want that -- uh, for the time being --- but you won't.

Additionally, the moon is in Libra in the 1st house, which is ruled by Venus - so love is essentially the driving force here? Since it is in the 1st house does this make it even more significant?

No, I might be inclined to say that fear is the driving force here.

From what I understand, there are strictures in horary against reading.

Stricture

noun [C] (CRITICISM)


Definition › a statement of severe criticism or disapproval


Uh...to improve your understanding...that's from the Oxford-Cambridge Dictionary.

I'm not exactly sure which I find to be more disquieting: English-speakers who don't understand English, or astrologers who don't understand astrology.

Everyone listen to me now, and hear me tomorrow afternoon around tea time (Central European Time):

The only Chart that cannot be read is a non-Radical Chart.

How odd is it that the one and only thing that actually, really, truly does prevent a chart from being read is an incongruous Hour Ruler....

...and no one even bothers to determine the Hour Ruler.

Does anyone not see the irony in that?

Here's a great analogy....

Three men are brutally beating and raping a woman...and you all stand there screaming at a small child who dropped his ice cream cone on the ground.

Jupiter is the Hour Ruler, in case anyone is interested.

A late ascendant suggests that you already know the answer.

She does. She's in denial, and asked the question out of desperation.

One of those is Saturn in 1st house.

Which means what?

When Saturn is in the 1st Sign, and Saturn is not a Significator of the Querent or Quesited Person/Matter, then it indicates delays, and that the matter will be difficult to resolve....unless Saturn is Retrograde, in which case the matter comes to a spectacular fail.

Saturn is in Scorpio, and Scorpio is not the Rising-Sign.

Another is a void of course moon,....

A VOC Moon is one ---- of three testimonies in this Chart --- that Querent will end this, or not pursue further action.

The moon is also your significator...

Co-signficator. Moon is Co-significator for the Querent.

There's a lot of bad web-sites putting out really bad and bogus info.

...and it [Moon] is via combusta, which probably reflects the mutual feelings you describe.

No, that is not what Via Combusta means.

Both the Ascendant and Moon are Via Combusta, which along with VOC Moon makes three very strong testimonies that Querent will not see this through.

A Significator that is Via Combusta is very insecure, or not in control, or both.

What is Moon's condition in this Chart?

Don't you people think you ought to assess Moon's condition?

-Moon is VOC
-Moon is Via Combusta
-Moon is Diurnal = not in-Sect
-Moon in Masculine Sign
-Moon in Masculine House
-Moon Out-of-Sect
-Moon in Masculine Degree
-Moon joined to Lot of Discord (at 29° Libra in the Horary Chart)

Moon is at 29° Libra. Ivy Gold-digger-Jacobstein would say it's a "Critical Degree" and have you believe she discovered that by her own brilliant self.

That Degree is

-Empty
-Pitted

Finally..

-Moon is Peregrine.

And that brings the total to 11 Negative Testimonies about Moon.

Is Moon Fortunate....or Unfortunate? Is Moon functioning as a Fortune, or as an Infortune?

You cannot know what people are feeling, but you can know Querent's state-of-mind.

And what is Querent's state-of-mind?

Totally conflicted and torn.

Venus is a faster moving planet than Mars, so suggests that you may be just slightly ahead of him on this question.

I'm not seeing that and not sure how you came to that conclusion. Love to trade theories on that, by right now it's a moot point, primarily because Venus is in aversion to Mars.

In this chart, he is definitely not sig. by Jupiter. However, he is conjunct Jupiter.

Joining Jupiter.

From what I understand about Jupiter is that it is the traditional ruler of the 9th house, which deals with long distance travel, churches, "getting married." Thus if a marriage is on the cards, I imagine the 9th would need to be activated for sure. In this chart, not only is he sitting in your 9th house and conjunct Jupiter, which I take to suggest that marriage is strongly on his mind. But also Jupiter is the ruler of his 9th house. Which could mean coming together in marriage.

Which Sign is the 9th Sign?

Gemini.

Who rules Gemini?

Mercury.

What is Mercury doing?

Mercury is Retrograde, seeking to join with Jupiter and Mars.

Who wants to be a Millionaire?

Question: Does Mercury join Jupiter?
Bonus Question: Does Mercury join Mars?

Nope....Mercury never perfects either, because he turns Direct.

The "Ephemeris"....it's what Real Astrologers use (to avoid embarrassment).

The planets in the 1st house are your co-rulers.

No, absolutely not. That is differently twisted nonsense spewed by idiots on their web-sites and unsupported by any logic or reasoning. Drink their Kool-Aid and you will always mess up the interpretation of a chart.

That's tantamount to stacking the deck in order to tell the Querent exactly what the Querent wants to hear, which is nauseating and disgusting, especially since it smells like soothe-saying.

Enough of that going around already.

But the moon in general is the co-ruler of the situation too.

No. The Moon is a Co-significator for Querent, just as Sun is a Co-Significator for the Quesited, since this is a question about relationships.

There's no such thing as a "co-ruler" in Astrology. That's a Modern Astrology concept forced upon them after they foolishly and stupidly assigned rulerships to the Outer Planets without using any logic or reason, only to find it didn't work, and so in order to save face and keep from being the laughing stock of the Universe, Modern Astrologers re-introduced the original rulers as "co-rulers."

The purpose of a Co-significator is to provide additional information about the Primary Significator....which is Venus in this Chart for Querent.

He, in the 9th house, is further in the sign of Cancer (that represents the situation; you are on the same page) which is ruled by the moon and is in your house. However, Cancer is an intercepted sign, which can cause interference by the person/sign that the planet is in. Moon is in Libra, you, which could suggest some interference from you, but not prevention.

Cancer is the 10th Sign, so I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, since Moon is totally whacked out and completely distressed and debilitated.

Also, Venus and Mars are in aversion...how could they possibly be on the same page?

Thus, the sign we speak of, the moon, the situation, is in a major aspect to Mars and to Jupiter. Your other (possible) co-ruler, by virtue of being in your house, Saturn is also in major aspect to Mars and Jupiter. All a trine, by sign and aspect (unbroken promises). All are harmonious aspects and all are by application. A trine is favoured for marriage. I imagine this means that whatever caused interference will be overcome or is insignificant.

That's an horrid web-site.

Why doesn't anyone want to delineate and interpret Moon's past aspects?

As an astrologer reading Horary Charts, that's your job.

Let's see....

Moon/Mars square (at exactly 0° Cancer/Libra)
Moon/Jupiter square
Moon/Mercury square
Moon/Sun square

...all while Moon is transiting Libra.

The "Ephemeris"......an Astrologer's Best Friend.

Moon makes four prior squares and now Moon is totally distressed......and wondering if Quesited will marry.......things that make you go "mmmmmhhhh."

Mars is in its fall in Cancer and in detriment by house, but Jupiter conjunct is exalted. Is there a possibility that he feels not good enough or unsure of whether the proposal will be accepted, or maybe by bringing up talk of children he was testing the water in regards to what you thought of a future with him? Some insecurity? As Mars is in very early Cancer, 2 deg, it probably indicates that is not completely ready (as you confirmed).

Mars is...

-in Detriment (Malefic)
-a Nocturnal Planet that is Diurnal (Malefic)
-not in-Sect
-a Masculine Planet in a Feminine Sign
-a Masculine Planet in a Feminine House -- the 10th -- sorry, but Cancer is the 10th Sign in this Chart
-totally Out-of-Sect
-in a Feminine Degree to boot
-Out-of-Bounds on top of that

The only saving grace here is that Mars is in his own Bound (and so not Peregrine) and in a Fortune Degree.

You, Venus, are in Leo, an angular house, you are dignified, ruler of Leo is also in the 9th house.

Venus is....

-Peregrine
-a Nocturnal Planet that is Diurnal
-not in-Sect
-in a Masculine Sign -- Leo
-in a Masculine House -- 11th (sorry, Leo is the 11th Sign in this Chart)
-totally Out-of-Sect
-in aversion to Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and Mars
+in a Feminine Degree
-in an Empty Degree
-in a Pitted Degree

Venus is totally distressed and in bad shape, plus having Saturn looking at Venus from a square (by Sign) is not good.

Him being Mars, Mars is not a slow moving planet,..

Mars is a Superior Planet, and thus by definition is slow.

However, with respect to relative speed, Mars is moving fast here Seeing how Mars is in the same Sign as Sun, it'll be about 2 months before Mars goes Retrograde.

[Moon] she's in the late degrees of Libra in the first, applying to Saturn.

Nope.

You can't be an Astrologer, if you don't have an Ephemeris.

I'll grant you this is a very difficult chart, but that's why you need an Ephemeris.

"It's a Late Ascendant...." blah, blah, blah, blah, make me gag.....this whole sad gripping saga stonker of a story is about to play out amongst 5 Planets: Moon, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.

What is happening now...

Mercury is seeking to join with Jupiter, trine Saturn, and join with Mars respectively.
Mars is seeking to join with Jupiter
Jupiter and Saturn are in partile trine aspect
Moon is seeking to trine Mars, followed by a joining with Saturn and then a trine with Jupiter and a trine with Mercury.

In order to sort that mess out, you need an Ephemeris so that you can see the exact order in which each of those aspects perfects, and we already know Mercury is going to go Direct and so the three of the aspects will never perfect.

In order to correctly delineate and interpret this chart, it is essential, uh, to use an Ephemeris, but also to understand that Mars, Jupiter and Mercury are assembled in Cancer and each is working toward the same purpose, and that Mercury and Sun are assembled for a different purpose, and that Mercury will go Direct; plus to understand the concepts of blocking and the cutting of light and so on --- because those Planets interfere with each other and tell you the story.

the Moon is about to move into Scorpio, where she will be in her fall.

And what is the signification of a Planet moving into its Fall?

That's key to the story here.

there's something that has yet to play itself out in this relationship that will sour your taste of the whole affair.

Well, you pretty much nailed it.

That "something" is the interplay between the 5 Planets I mentioned above.

That "something" is already happening --- and Querent knows it --- and it will manifest itself more certain in the coming weeks/months.

keep an eye out. something feels off and dishonest here.

Maybe not, but one thing is for certain, and that is Moon, Venus and Mars are all Out-of-Sect.

When a Planet is Out-of-Sect, there are three possible interpretations:

1] The person or object represented by the Planet is not who or what they appear to be; there's an air of malice here, founded on trickery, fraud, deception, deceit and ill-will.

2] The person or object signified by the Planet is doing something they would not normally do, or something that is contrary to their nature. There is no malice here.

3] The person or object the Planet signfies is acting in a manner that is totally and wholly in appropriate. That can run the gamut from something as simple as violating social mores, customs and taboos to something that is criminal. It may or may not be malicious.

For Moon, Venus and Mars, we can rule out Option 2.

Peregrine Planets are malicious, but seeing how Venus is in aversion to Mars, and Moon in aversion to Saturn, I'll say that Querent is acting in a manner that is completely inappropriate.

Who is being harmed here?

Venus rules the 1st Sign/House and also the 8th Sign/House of Fear, and then Moon rules Querent's 10th Sign/House and is in the 1st Sign/House, so the only victim here is Querent.

Mars is Malefic here being Diurnal and in Cancer. Something is not right about him.

In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, much of this has to do with Quesited and his father, and very little to do with Querent.

From what I understand, the horary is dealing with just your question and the situation as it pertains directly to your question (i.e., not natal configurations).

That's true, but an Horary Chart will never contradict a Natal Chart, so in order for the Horary Chart to yield a positive result, her Natal Chart must include the promise of marriage to a foreigner, etc etc etc.

Not only that, but a marriage will not take place unless the Profectional Chart and the Solar Return Chart rubber-stamp it.

Saturn could well represent his 11th house of hopes and wishes.

The 11th House is not hopey-wishy.

I totally destroyed and annihilated that stupid nonsense. Lily made an error and misunderstood what Bonatti --- and every astrologer who ever lived before Lily since time immemorial --- actually said about the 11th House, and then Houlding compounded the error and now this botched abortion is snow-balling out of control.

So far....the only evidence or argument anyone has ever been able to present to counter my well-constructed, well-documented, well-researched argument has been.....

....[drum roll please]....

..."you don't have a a web-site."

It has the foul stench of Academia.....a bunch of idiots in Ivory Towers running around in circles screaming, "You're not published, and I am," or "I'm cited more times than you."

As Saturn is in his 7th house....

Saturn is in Scorpio. Since when does the Sign of Scorpio oppose the Sign of Aries?

(in traditional astrology Saturn rules Aquarius)

And in Horary Astrology Saturn rules Aquarius.

Saturn is applying to the moon by conjunction.

That's impossible for two reasons, first, Saturn is Direct, and second, Saturn is the slower of the two Planets.

Planetary Speeds...

<Moon Mercury Venus Sun Mars Jupiter Saturn>

I think that means they are working together?

Instead of guessing, why not follow the rules and check to see if there is strong Reception between Moon and Saturn when they join?

Since there will be no Reception between Moon and Saturn, that is a bad omen.

Yes, he's very aware of what I would have to give up. He just lost his mother not even a year ago so he doesn't want to leave his father. I'm understanding of the situation. Especially since he also lost a sibling years back. I think he feels he owes it his father to be there for him. He loves him dearly.

No kidding.....he loves his father more than he loves you, since Mars and his Co-significator Sun are both in his 4th Sign/House.

Aren't you glad you'll be playing second fiddle to his father? Oh, and your motherly skills as a woman will come handy taking care of two grown men.

We have a term for that in Romanian: papalapte

For me this relationship would mean giving up everything that defines me as a woman - which is fiercely independent.

Yes, I know. That's why you're questioning it.

That's also why I'm taking the time to look at this thread...not that you're on my Christmas card list or anything, but you're a respected forum member and I'm sort of biased, since strong fierce independent women give me a woody.

Look at Peregrine Venus.....alone.....in Leo....in aversion to most of the Planets in the Chart. Look at Peregrine Moon in your 1st House.

Why would you want to give that up?

Mmmmhhh.....Out-of-Sect Moon and Out-of-Sect Venus.....gosh, just like a question on the game show 'Family Feud'....

Name something a fiercely independent woman would do that is totally inappropriate....
 

wca

Well-known member
Nope.

You can't be an Astrologer, if you don't have an Ephemeris.

I'll grant you this is a very difficult chart, but that's why you need an Ephemeris.

"It's a Late Ascendant...." blah, blah, blah, blah, make me gag.....this whole sad gripping saga stonker of a story is about to play out amongst 5 Planets: Moon, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.

I don't recall saying anything about a late Ascendant, nor is an ephemeris needed to see the order in which these things occur. doesn't neutralize the fact that the Moon does still move toward Saturn, although I see your point about pulling its connection to Mars first. I didn't miss it, just didn't include it.
 
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tsmall

Premium Member
How odd is it that the one and only thing that actually, really, truly does prevent a chart from being read is an incongruous Hour Ruler....

...and no one even bothers to determine the Hour Ruler.

Well, I checked. Hour Ruler, like you said is Jupiter. So now I'm wondering if Jupiter does not agree with Air? Because all I have found of this is an article on skyscript that says Jupiter does....which means this chart is radical.

In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, much of this has to do with Quesited and his father, and very little to do with Querent.

Moon interferes with the trine between Jupiter and Saturn, and then runs headlong into a collision with retro Mercury.

The key part here is that it will be the querent, and not the quesited, who ends the realtionship.
 
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Mandy

Well-known member
Thank you, Bob, tsmall, wca, for getting involved. To say I am a beginner would be an overstatement. I truly appreciate your feedback (and input).
 
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anjelik

Well-known member
Not likely. He might want that -- uh, for the time being --- but you won't.



No, I might be inclined to say that fear is the driving force here.



Stricture

noun [C] (CRITICISM)


Definition › a statement of severe criticism or disapproval


Uh...to improve your understanding...that's from the Oxford-Cambridge Dictionary.

I'm not exactly sure which I find to be more disquieting: English-speakers who don't understand English, or astrologers who don't understand astrology.

Everyone listen to me now, and hear me tomorrow afternoon around tea time (Central European Time):

The only Chart that cannot be read is a non-Radical Chart.

How odd is it that the one and only thing that actually, really, truly does prevent a chart from being read is an incongruous Hour Ruler....

...and no one even bothers to determine the Hour Ruler.

Does anyone not see the irony in that?

Here's a great analogy....

Three men are brutally beating and raping a woman...and you all stand there screaming at a small child who dropped his ice cream cone on the ground.

Jupiter is the Hour Ruler, in case anyone is interested.



She does. She's in denial, and asked the question out of desperation.



Which means what?

When Saturn is in the 1st Sign, and Saturn is not a Significator of the Querent or Quesited Person/Matter, then it indicates delays, and that the matter will be difficult to resolve....unless Saturn is Retrograde, in which case the matter comes to a spectacular fail.

Saturn is in Scorpio, and Scorpio is not the Rising-Sign.



A VOC Moon is one ---- of three testimonies in this Chart --- that Querent will end this, or not pursue further action.



Co-signficator. Moon is Co-significator for the Querent.

There's a lot of bad web-sites putting out really bad and bogus info.



No, that is not what Via Combusta means.

Both the Ascendant and Moon are Via Combusta, which along with VOC Moon makes three very strong testimonies that Querent will not see this through.

A Significator that is Via Combusta is very insecure, or not in control, or both.

What is Moon's condition in this Chart?

Don't you people think you ought to assess Moon's condition?

-Moon is VOC
-Moon is Via Combusta
-Moon is Diurnal = not in-Sect
-Moon in Masculine Sign
-Moon in Masculine House
-Moon Out-of-Sect
-Moon in Masculine Degree
-Moon joined to Lot of Discord (at 29° Libra in the Horary Chart)

Moon is at 29° Libra. Ivy Gold-digger-Jacobstein would say it's a "Critical Degree" and have you believe she discovered that by her own brilliant self.

That Degree is

-Empty
-Pitted

Finally..

-Moon is Peregrine.

And that brings the total to 11 Negative Testimonies about Moon.

Is Moon Fortunate....or Unfortunate? Is Moon functioning as a Fortune, or as an Infortune?

You cannot know what people are feeling, but you can know Querent's state-of-mind.

And what is Querent's state-of-mind?

Totally conflicted and torn.



I'm not seeing that and not sure how you came to that conclusion. Love to trade theories on that, by right now it's a moot point, primarily because Venus is in aversion to Mars.



Joining Jupiter.



Which Sign is the 9th Sign?

Gemini.

Who rules Gemini?

Mercury.

What is Mercury doing?

Mercury is Retrograde, seeking to join with Jupiter and Mars.

Who wants to be a Millionaire?

Question: Does Mercury join Jupiter?
Bonus Question: Does Mercury join Mars?

Nope....Mercury never perfects either, because he turns Direct.

The "Ephemeris"....it's what Real Astrologers use (to avoid embarrassment).



No, absolutely not. That is differently twisted nonsense spewed by idiots on their web-sites and unsupported by any logic or reasoning. Drink their Kool-Aid and you will always mess up the interpretation of a chart.

That's tantamount to stacking the deck in order to tell the Querent exactly what the Querent wants to hear, which is nauseating and disgusting, especially since it smells like soothe-saying.

Enough of that going around already.



No. The Moon is a Co-significator for Querent, just as Sun is a Co-Significator for the Quesited, since this is a question about relationships.

There's no such thing as a "co-ruler" in Astrology. That's a Modern Astrology concept forced upon them after they foolishly and stupidly assigned rulerships to the Outer Planets without using any logic or reason, only to find it didn't work, and so in order to save face and keep from being the laughing stock of the Universe, Modern Astrologers re-introduced the original rulers as "co-rulers."

The purpose of a Co-significator is to provide additional information about the Primary Significator....which is Venus in this Chart for Querent.



Cancer is the 10th Sign, so I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, since Moon is totally whacked out and completely distressed and debilitated.

Also, Venus and Mars are in aversion...how could they possibly be on the same page?



That's an horrid web-site.

Why doesn't anyone want to delineate and interpret Moon's past aspects?

As an astrologer reading Horary Charts, that's your job.

Let's see....

Moon/Mars square (at exactly 0° Cancer/Libra)
Moon/Jupiter square
Moon/Mercury square
Moon/Sun square

...all while Moon is transiting Libra.

The "Ephemeris"......an Astrologer's Best Friend.

Moon makes four prior squares and now Moon is totally distressed......and wondering if Quesited will marry.......things that make you go "mmmmmhhhh."



Mars is...

-in Detriment (Malefic)
-a Nocturnal Planet that is Diurnal (Malefic)
-not in-Sect
-a Masculine Planet in a Feminine Sign
-a Masculine Planet in a Feminine House -- the 10th -- sorry, but Cancer is the 10th Sign in this Chart
-totally Out-of-Sect
-in a Feminine Degree to boot
-Out-of-Bounds on top of that

The only saving grace here is that Mars is in his own Bound (and so not Peregrine) and in a Fortune Degree.



Venus is....

-Peregrine
-a Nocturnal Planet that is Diurnal
-not in-Sect
-in a Masculine Sign -- Leo
-in a Masculine House -- 11th (sorry, Leo is the 11th Sign in this Chart)
-totally Out-of-Sect
-in aversion to Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and Mars
+in a Feminine Degree
-in an Empty Degree
-in a Pitted Degree

Venus is totally distressed and in bad shape, plus having Saturn looking at Venus from a square (by Sign) is not good.



Mars is a Superior Planet, and thus by definition is slow.

However, with respect to relative speed, Mars is moving fast here Seeing how Mars is in the same Sign as Sun, it'll be about 2 months before Mars goes Retrograde.



Nope.

You can't be an Astrologer, if you don't have an Ephemeris.

I'll grant you this is a very difficult chart, but that's why you need an Ephemeris.

"It's a Late Ascendant...." blah, blah, blah, blah, make me gag.....this whole sad gripping saga stonker of a story is about to play out amongst 5 Planets: Moon, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.

What is happening now...

Mercury is seeking to join with Jupiter, trine Saturn, and join with Mars respectively.
Mars is seeking to join with Jupiter
Jupiter and Saturn are in partile trine aspect
Moon is seeking to trine Mars, followed by a joining with Saturn and then a trine with Jupiter and a trine with Mercury.

In order to sort that mess out, you need an Ephemeris so that you can see the exact order in which each of those aspects perfects, and we already know Mercury is going to go Direct and so the three of the aspects will never perfect.

In order to correctly delineate and interpret this chart, it is essential, uh, to use an Ephemeris, but also to understand that Mars, Jupiter and Mercury are assembled in Cancer and each is working toward the same purpose, and that Mercury and Sun are assembled for a different purpose, and that Mercury will go Direct; plus to understand the concepts of blocking and the cutting of light and so on --- because those Planets interfere with each other and tell you the story.



And what is the signification of a Planet moving into its Fall?

That's key to the story here.



Well, you pretty much nailed it.

That "something" is the interplay between the 5 Planets I mentioned above.

That "something" is already happening --- and Querent knows it --- and it will manifest itself more certain in the coming weeks/months.



Maybe not, but one thing is for certain, and that is Moon, Venus and Mars are all Out-of-Sect.

When a Planet is Out-of-Sect, there are three possible interpretations:

1] The person or object represented by the Planet is not who or what they appear to be; there's an air of malice here, founded on trickery, fraud, deception, deceit and ill-will.

2] The person or object signified by the Planet is doing something they would not normally do, or something that is contrary to their nature. There is no malice here.

3] The person or object the Planet signfies is acting in a manner that is totally and wholly in appropriate. That can run the gamut from something as simple as violating social mores, customs and taboos to something that is criminal. It may or may not be malicious.

For Moon, Venus and Mars, we can rule out Option 2.

Peregrine Planets are malicious, but seeing how Venus is in aversion to Mars, and Moon in aversion to Saturn, I'll say that Querent is acting in a manner that is completely inappropriate.

Who is being harmed here?

Venus rules the 1st Sign/House and also the 8th Sign/House of Fear, and then Moon rules Querent's 10th Sign/House and is in the 1st Sign/House, so the only victim here is Querent.

Mars is Malefic here being Diurnal and in Cancer. Something is not right about him.

In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, much of this has to do with Quesited and his father, and very little to do with Querent.



That's true, but an Horary Chart will never contradict a Natal Chart, so in order for the Horary Chart to yield a positive result, her Natal Chart must include the promise of marriage to a foreigner, etc etc etc.

Not only that, but a marriage will not take place unless the Profectional Chart and the Solar Return Chart rubber-stamp it.



The 11th House is not hopey-wishy.

I totally destroyed and annihilated that stupid nonsense. Lily made an error and misunderstood what Bonatti --- and every astrologer who ever lived before Lily since time immemorial --- actually said about the 11th House, and then Houlding compounded the error and now this botched abortion is snow-balling out of control.

So far....the only evidence or argument anyone has ever been able to present to counter my well-constructed, well-documented, well-researched argument has been.....

....[drum roll please]....

..."you don't have a a web-site."

It has the foul stench of Academia.....a bunch of idiots in Ivory Towers running around in circles screaming, "You're not published, and I am," or "I'm cited more times than you."



Saturn is in Scorpio. Since when does the Sign of Scorpio oppose the Sign of Aries?



And in Horary Astrology Saturn rules Aquarius.



That's impossible for two reasons, first, Saturn is Direct, and second, Saturn is the slower of the two Planets.

Planetary Speeds...

<Moon Mercury Venus Sun Mars Jupiter Saturn>



Instead of guessing, why not follow the rules and check to see if there is strong Reception between Moon and Saturn when they join?

Since there will be no Reception between Moon and Saturn, that is a bad omen.



No kidding.....he loves his father more than he loves you, since Mars and his Co-significator Sun are both in his 4th Sign/House.

Aren't you glad you'll be playing second fiddle to his father? Oh, and your motherly skills as a woman will come handy taking care of two grown men.

We have a term for that in Romanian: papalapte



Yes, I know. That's why you're questioning it.

That's also why I'm taking the time to look at this thread...not that you're on my Christmas card list or anything, but you're a respected forum member and I'm sort of biased, since strong fierce independent women give me a woody.

Look at Peregrine Venus.....alone.....in Leo....in aversion to most of the Planets in the Chart. Look at Peregrine Moon in your 1st House.

Why would you want to give that up?

Mmmmhhh.....Out-of-Sect Moon and Out-of-Sect Venus.....gosh, just like a question on the game show 'Family Feud'....

Name something a fiercely independent woman would do that is totally inappropriate....
Hi Bob - thanks very much for setting this all straight. I really appreciate your insight! What I've learned here is that the rules for horary astrology are a bit different than natal astrology. So I was way off the mark. To be honest, I do think you have hit the nail on the head. I am unsure what you think will play out the in the coming weeks / months but I know that I have a difficult time swallowing the fact that I would have to make a sacrifice of some sort for this relationship to work. I have no issue moving to the UK- it's something I would want to do without even knowing him but on my own terms and not jeopardizing my career. My sun trines my midheaven - I'm never going to sit home baking cupcakes and doing laundry all day. It's just not me and I wouldn't be happy in a situation like that. I've made this crystal clear to him, but perhaps it hasn't registered. To be honest if my job did transfer me (that is an option we have discussed) I am on the fence whether I would want my own place or not. I don't think I would feel comfortable living in someone else's home. I would feel subordinate.

You mentioned Mars in Cancer equating to him favoring his father over me. He has this placement natally but I was wondering what aspects would indicate something like this. My last serious relationship was a similar situation and I ended up moving out and ending things because I was tired of not being out first. He too loved his father more than me (and drugs and alcohol). But his Mars was in Gemini. I wonder what aspects I have that attract me to those types as well. Because these two couldn't be more different in terms of personality!

When you say that I am acting in an inappropriate manner what exactly do you mean? Do you mean that I am acting out of character for myself? The sun opposes the moon in my natal chart - so a push an pull between what I want / need is something I struggle with. From what I've read a peregrine Venus would mean that I'm confused? That would be accurate. I am constantly in search of being in love and once I have it I feel sick and almost like I am trapped. The best analogy would be in South Park when Stan vomits every time he sees Wendy.

You mentioned that there is something that has yet to play out between the planets - what do you mean? Clearly you feel something very negative will come to a head?

Question about Aquarius ruling Saturn in horary astrology - why is that and then how does Saturn act? Capricorn is reserved and Aquarius is shocking, no? I don't see how Saturn can be associated with Aquarius beyond Aquarius being fixed and highly rational..but so is Capricorn.

In reference to your comment about a marriage not taking place unless the solar return chart and natal indicate such. My natal indicates later marriage (I'm 31 so I think this would qualify as later in life) an my SR chart for this year has a loaded 7th house (sun, Venus, mars, mercury) and Jupiter in my 10th. Does this bare any significance?

Sorry for the scattered thoughts, I'm writing this all while on my iPhone so quoting would be really difficult!

Thank you everyone again for giving this attention and your knowledge. I'm clearly going to see this through because I do love him but its upsetting to hear once again that I haven't quite nailed it in the love department!
 
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