Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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lostinstars

Well-known member
david starling said:
Osirus/Hades/Pluto was no minor archetype. Neither was Poseidon/Neptune. Neptune is blamed for addictions in "Modern", Pluto for obsessions.
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That is the myopic view which modern astrologers take time and again. Neptune rules drugs (I don't know how) so substance abuse only qualifies for addictions. Any other form of addiction is not, that is very silly. I hold Pluto more responsible for addictions if I were a modern astrologer but I'm not.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
lostinstars said:
That is the myopic view which modern astrologers take time and again. Neptune rules drugs (I don't know how) so substance abuse only qualifies for addictions. Any other form of addiction is not, that is very silly. I hold Pluto more responsible for addictions if I were a modern astrologer but I'm not.
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It's ALL astrology, and that was a good, well-considered addition to "Modern" astrology whether you consider yourself one or not. :biggrin:
 
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david starling

Well-known member
My attitude is, if Venus can account for the influence of Neptune, and Mars can account for that of Pluto, then why did they loom so large in the Greco-Roman culture? You can't accuse those ancient cultures of being too "Modern".
 
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lostinstars

Well-known member
david starling said:
My attitude is, if Venus can account for the influence of Neptune, and Mars can account for that of Pluto, why did they loom so large in the Greco-Roman culture? You can't accuse those ancient cultures of being too "Modern".
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That is why I said in few posts above. You never know when a god or goddess was influenced by other culture or even by the same culture, attributes, powers changed over time. No body can say except in recorded history or through archaelogy or through some living lineage. Probably they were not influential gods nor mainstream gods or not as potent or majestic enough.

Sun was worshipped as the only deity by many cultures for very long time. There is only one Sun and there can be only one king at any time for any kingdom, so it makes sense to give rulership to one sign. Same goes for Venus which must have been a tribal feminine deity and over time became refined and associated with all forms of pleasures.

The bigger question is how and why Neptune rules drugs? You cannot bring a small deity that no culture bothered to even consider brining it to mainsteam and suddenly give attributes and say let's dethrone older gods. That will never work.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
As I see it, Neptune connects us to Spirit. And, the drug-taking is a reaction to feeling trapped in the mundane, materialistic world, unable to access the spiritual realms. It also influences our emotions, and drugs are an escape from depression, and a way to "feel better". Or, in the case of alcohol, to feel nothing. Neptune and the Moon are both about emotion, but Neptune is deeper and less transitory.
Psychedelic drugs are more related to Uranian influence.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
passiflora said:
I can see how it would be attractive to put dully addictive drugs with Neptune and psychedelics with Uranus but I wonder if that's very fair. For one thing, there are a number of everyday medicinal substances that blur the lines somewhat.

There are drugs that are used by many without crossing the line into addictive proportions. One could well argue it's the combination of imperial economy and technology, that is Saturn and Uranus, that makes the substances become dangerous or "neptunian": opium at home garden scale, and coca in leaf form are two that are less harmful as used traditionally.
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I'm thinking mood-altering for Neptune, and mind-altering for :uranus:.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
on the contrary :smile:
traditional astrology has remained for the past two thousand plus years
and shall remain the basis of modernist astrology "of the future"
modernist astrology is entirely dependent on traditional astrology
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What's been accepted by today's Modernistic astrology from yesteryear's Traditionalistic astrology, will be included in the "Traditional" astrology of the future.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:
The "Modern" astrology of today, will be the "Traditional" astrology of the future.
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on the contrary :smile:



traditional astrology has remained for the past two thousand plus years
and shall remain the basis of modernist astrology "of the future"
modernist astrology is entirely dependent on traditional astrology
david starling said:
What's been accepted by today's Modernistic astrology
from yesteryear's Traditionalistic astrology
will be included in the "Traditional"astrology of the future.
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todays Modernist astrology is completely dependent

now and in the future
on traditional astrology base
 
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david starling

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
on the contrary :smile:



traditional astrology has remained for the past two thousand plus years
and shall remain the basis of modernist astrology "of the future"
modernist astrology is entirely dependent on traditional astrology
todays Modernist astrology is completely dependent

now and in the future
on traditional astrology base
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Just as today's "Traditional" astrology is entirely dependent on ancient Egyptian and Babylonian astrology. Astrology is a living art, and changes are inevitable.
 
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lostinstars

Well-known member
david starling said:
As I see it, Neptune connects us to Spirit. And, the drug-taking is a reaction to feeling trapped in the mundane, materialistic world, unable to access the spiritual realms. It also influences our emotions, and drugs are an escape from depression, and a way to "feel better". Or, in the case of alcohol, to feel nothing. Neptune and the Moon are both about emotion, but Neptune is deeper and less transitory.
Psychedelic drugs are more related to Uranian influence.
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If Neptune connects you to spirit what role Pluto plays in spirituality? If anything Neptune should be associated with unconscious as water is unconscious as a sea holds many treasures and secrets not seen from above. This unconscious may give rise to addictions.

passiflora said:
I also agree Neptune is not a minor character; earth does not exist without water.
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Life evolved from water and there is no life without water on the planet. Then why wasn’t Neptune given a higher role than Sun or Jupiter in modern astrology, why just limit to drugs? Is it not modern astrology’s convenient position to assign attributes to planets without a proper rationale or logic?
 
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