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  #51  
Unread 09-09-2006, 10:04 AM
5th 5th is offline
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Lightbulb Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

To make it more clear----If show Decans Sign Chart, it's another look. Whole house division.

Mars and Jupiter are in their sign's first decan, and Sun in third decan. Then Mars, Jupiter and Sun forms Grand Trine in Decans Chart.
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  #52  
Unread 09-09-2006, 10:29 AM
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

AND I find this is an interesting way to interprete natal chart. Just my way.

First, Whole House Division.

Second, find planet in its own sign or own house. In this chart, Sun, Mercury, Jupiter in their own sign, and Mars, Venus in their own house.

Third, find planet in exaltation, detriment and fall in the same way.

Fourth, omit 3 outer planet Uranus, Neptune, Pluto. Take Saturn as Aquarius ruler, Jupiter Pisces, Mars Scorpio.

Fifth, look at 12 house ruler and planets in 12 house.

Sixth, check gain or lose of things related to 12 house by house ruler planet(sign ruler). In this chart, Mars and Sun in H1, both to gain things of H1, and then I know I have a big personality. H2 the same. H8 ruler Jupiter in its own sign, gain to things of H8. and so on...
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  #53  
Unread 09-09-2006, 11:34 PM
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

fifth,that is a lot of info for me.I would like to study it some more,and also your progressed chart.
I am not a supporter of the wholehouse division,nor saturn as ruler of aquarius and mars as ruler of scorpio.
But I see that the ruler of the ninth house is in the fifth house,love for foreign culture,and co-ruler of the ninth conjunct the ascendant.
But I am too much a student to see the whole picture yet,fifth.I will study your chart some more to see if I can get a more complete picture!
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  #54  
Unread 09-20-2006, 04:48 AM
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Question Over-whelming sense...

I had enough with it. Nearly whenever I'm unconscious, strange sense soar in my mind. I'm sure I'm not mad at all.

The sense is about different people's last moments of their lives. Male and female, young and old, native and foreign... The sense appears clearly and smoothly like a movie, with dialog and partner, with particular suroundings, and it's always the last moments of the movie, I mean one person die. Then the strange sense is over. And I know it's none of the movie clips I have ever seen in TV or PC. This can occur whenever I'm unconscious, such as moments before asleep, dream, daytime or some time I don't think anything at all.
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  #55  
Unread 09-20-2006, 07:27 PM
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Re: Over-whelming sense...

To 5th,

It sounds to me like you may be seeing bits from your past lives. I've had this happen, although not always the "last scene". You are seeing this for a reason - something you need to learn from it. Perhaps, since it is the "last scene" you are seeing, it is to show you that you don't really die, that you have lived many lives, etc. - something along those lines. I have a friend that sees this, too, and in dreams, and it is always the "last scene". He is a staunch traditional "Christian", and adamantly denies reincarnation. I think he is being shown otherwise. Anyway, hope this helps.
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  #56  
Unread 09-22-2006, 07:25 AM
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Smile Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Hi freedomlover, I know someone must say it in your way, before I'd post my strange sense. Well... I just know it...

Pretty sad, ahaa? I really don't want to be like this way. BUT I have to go on...

Thanks for your kindness!

AND to know it by Numerology, double 7 matters. 7 lifepath and 7 destiny. Maybe 7 is fated to be so weird! Ahaaaa!!!
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  #57  
Unread 09-22-2006, 07:54 AM
Firemoon Firemoon is offline
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

There is an important distinction to be made between an 'in-sign' and an 'out-of-sign' aspect. Aspect theory, according to modern schools of astrology, are a function of degree relationship and not only sign. In earlier theory, this was not the case. There were (are) even methods where ALL planets in Aries were considered square to ALL planets in both Cancer and Capricorn, for example. Today, we do make the distinction (unless you adhere to an extremely narrow methodology, as Johan apparently does) between in-sign and out-of-sign. An out-of-sign aspect, because of the element discrepency mentioned by Johan, will feel and manifest differently than one which is in-element. But it is still a square and must be delineated as such. Not to do so, especially in a tight orb, like this one, is to simply ignore an important symbolic dynamic.

And consider this; in this example direction motion will carry both that Saturn and that Moon into Scorpio before the subject reaches his/her first birthday. In addition, that Pluto will arrive at around 3 years of age. All three factors will then be in a pretty tight square, in element, in the important formative years. And believe me, if you think that a Mars-Saturn AND a Mars-PLUTO square will not be felt, you're making a grave error!! I cannot stress this enough. This is another reason why it simply cannot be ignored, simply based on element theory or some classical edict.
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  #58  
Unread 09-22-2006, 09:22 AM
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Talking Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Hi, Firemoon! Thanks for your comments!

"And consider this; in this example direction motion will carry both that Saturn and that Moon into Scorpio before the subject reaches his/her first birthday. In addition, that Pluto will arrive at around 3 years of age. All three factors will then be in a pretty tight square, in element, in the important formative years. "

Well, this happened when I'm too little, 3 years old? Then I was in kindergarten, nothing special... nothing too bad, too good, or too impressive. It seems that even in-sign square is not so forceful? I don't know:P Maybe I was too little to take action, ahaaa...

If I could feel it really well, there should be impressive scars of this square? BUT I can't feel Mars-Pluto or -Saturn or -Moon work out obviously. Even compared to Venus-Uranus squre, with a much more loose orb, I feel later one very obviously but former one not so. As astrology theory described, Mars-Pluto suqare is so forceful and violent, but I'm not like that at all and I really hate to take violent action or fight like a beast; Mars-Saturn is so difficult to carry out personal action, but the oppsite is true, I even often guild others to take right action for their personal development; Mars-Moon is so easy to be angery, BUT I find myself try to calm down others when they are angery. So I think myself do not fit to these description at all. If I'm like the description of Mars square, I would not ask a question like "yes or not square".

Last edited by 5th; 09-22-2006 at 09:52 AM.
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  #59  
Unread 09-22-2006, 10:41 AM
Firemoon Firemoon is offline
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Hi 5th...

Another name for Pluto is Hades. Hades in ancient Greek means something close to "Hidden". Because Saturn is the planet of Discipline and Structure, a good part of how he manifests is by cutting off and boxing in. Just because you can take exagerrated, one-dimensional, cook-book delineations and deny them does not mean that this dynamic doesn't have symbolic bearing on your inner life. We use the word UNconscious to make clear that it is not conscious.

How do these squares manifest? Sometimes it does not lie right on the surface. That's a sign that understanding them more deeply will precipitate transformation in your perception, ESPECIALLY when Pluto is involved. Not all manifestations of these squares are blatantly negative. There is a great deal of power here, which can be used to create enormous change on numerous levels. I can assure you that in consultation with someone you trust, what the dynamics are would emerge very quickly along with their vast potential.

Please also notice that there is a Void of Water in your horoscope, making a strong symbolic suggestion about the feeling function. In addition, Neptune forms a Sextile to the Libra stellium and an out-of-sign quincunx to the Mars, creating a wedge pattern. Neptune symbolically obscures, it doubts, it negates and it can throw everything into a symbolic fog at times.

As if that weren't enough, your Draconic Pluto is in a conjunction to your Tropical Mars, emphasizing that 'hidden' quality mentioned above.

Believe me, despite Johan's well-meaning assertions, you wouldn't find a serious, well-trained, humanistic, psychologically-oriented astrologer who would tell you these are not squares.


FM
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  #60  
Unread 09-22-2006, 11:19 AM
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

UNconscious----well, a good word. My unconscious world is very very interesting to me! Can you interpret my Mars more clearly? I can't understand my unconsciousness so clearly... Though every night I have dream, dream like endless movie play in my mind, I don't know whether I live in a dream or in reality. I'd rather stay in my dream! At least not so boring. At least I can fly and walk through walls in my dream, and be any form I'd like to. When I find consciousness is not enough, I'd wish a dream then get it. Life is much more interesting in dream. Maybe I live a too boring life... And Neptune is also very interesting to me, because I feel it must play a very important part in my life. With void of water, many things cannot expressed by affection, and even myself wonder if I really need affection...or be affectional!
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  #61  
Unread 09-22-2006, 11:50 AM
Firemoon Firemoon is offline
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Hi 5th...

Well, interpreting Mars all by itself would be a little like ordering a nice, spicy fish soup and getting a bowl full of just chilies to bite into!

Still, if you can 'hear' it in context with the rest of your horoscope, it may have value. Obviously Mars is in an important position here. Conjunct the Asc, it is in the first degree of a Fire sign and keeps both house and sign company with a dignified Sun. Yet it is in the 12th and in the already mentioned quincunx to Neptune, so it is not merely coincidence that you speak of calibration of your dream life! Neptune is calling on Mars archetypally to work with it, which work requires constant and fine adjustment.

Consider the following questions for deeper insight into the inner wiring these symbols represent:

How do you get pissed off?
What's your 'burn rate'?
What remains when it subsides?

How do you access true creativity in your life?
Is it satisfying?
If not, what's holding it back?
If so, how can you augment it?

What themes emerge most strongly in your dream life?
What figures?
What plots?

How do you access the 'trance state' (either light or heavy) in your waking consciousness?
What does that serve?!?

Obviously these are not questions to be answered all here. But gaining insight to these issues can precipitate enormous growth.

I'd recommend all the books on Lucid Dreaming by Laberge, if you haven't read them already. Take it seriously and practice. As someone with Neptune in 1 and conjunct Spica, I can attest to the beauty, transcendence and exstacy of breaking through to new levels of consciousness in the dream world. And appropriate to the Leo energies, it IS a heroic journey.

Enjoy it!



FM
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  #62  
Unread 09-23-2006, 09:27 AM
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Talking Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Well, your question is interesting. I try to answer----

How do you get pissed off?----I jump out of the matter and solve in my way.
What's your 'burn rate'?----Anger? I rarely burn, I'd rather argue with myself.
What remains when it subsides?----Do another meditation, and get another ridiculous answer.

How do you access true creativity in your life?----Too many ways, anytime when I want to improve something. Usually a task given by others or myself.
Is it satisfying?----Yeah! Always!
If not, what's holding it back?
If so, how can you augment it?----Time matters, period matters. I find my inner self always change a lot after some period, seems like a nature.

What themes emerge most strongly in your dream life?----Death. Deaths of many many people, including myself. Like a movie in my mind.
What figures?----Movies can have many figures, so I can't speak it out one by one. But there must be figure of myself, my strangers and knowns; someone seems like myself, and his or her partners.
What plots?----Too many plots, from visit in peasant's cottage to party in Napoleon's palace, from daily contact to deadly fight, but most impressive movie endings are about death, like this--one player die or no hope to live on, then movie is over.

How do you access the 'trance state' (either light or heavy) in your waking consciousness?----Whenever I think nothing, do nothing or to be nothing. Then movie play, finish. Many of them play in reality later on, or later later on. Some of them play past experience and I realise deeper meaning like thunder attack. Some reveal clues of my present things.
What does that serve?!?----I think it serves my understanding of my past, now and future, my inner self and other people's inner selves.

I'd recommend all the books on Lucid Dreaming by Laberge----Oh thank you for your shining vocabulary "Lucid Dreaming" ! I like it! Get another new vocabulary~~
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  #63  
Unread 09-23-2006, 01:07 PM
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Smile Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Hi, charmvirgo. I agree, sign matters. After all, Venus rules Libra and Venus is considered next to Jupiter's goodness.
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  #64  
Unread 10-13-2006, 01:22 PM
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Question Where am I when I'm sleeping?!

You know I'm not mad... But I doubt it.

I know I'm lying on bed. You know I'm not sick. BUT...

This week, again, I feel myself walk around in my dorm when other room mates are sleeping, and then I walk back to my bed. Then I play game with my leg up and down, though I know my quilt is flat and my leg is sleeping with my whole body.

Last month, I have sleep at home, I feel myself walk through a wall, then I fly in my room, look over my body lying on bed from the ceiling, then I come back to the bed and wake up.

And many many strange things like that...
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  #65  
Unread 10-15-2006, 02:26 AM
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Smile Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Haaa... Right! Key word for Libra is Relate and for Leo is Create, then this square is so interesting--It relates unconcious tension between Mars and Pluto-Saturn-Moon, and it also relates dream state of H12 and sensation of H4. It creates my strange personality, too!

And refer to transformation, well, I'm transforming intensely now. This year, transiting Pluto is conjunction to Natal Neptune, and transiting Saturn just passed from my natal Sun. Then in the end of this year, transiting Jupiter will pass through Natal Jupiter, the second time. A busy year~~

I wonder if Pluto-Neptune conjunction cause so many strange sensations recently... Some time I even wonder if my soul seperates from my body?! And why I'm always channeling? And I wonder what will happen when transiting Pluto pass through Neptune in the end of this year? Oh, so many, too many strange things this year. Some time I can't believe who am I, where am I and why am I... I'm changing so fast and it surprised, scared myself. In another words, transformation happen again and again and again, like a betterfly come out from its pupa again and again and again!
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  #66  
Unread 10-18-2006, 03:47 AM
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

I just check Trasiting Pluto's track, oh well, it comes back and fro, and Pluto-Neptune conjunction will last many years! It seems that I have to be in such strange state for a long long time! Neptune is exact conjunction to Gal. Center.
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  #67  
Unread 10-18-2006, 07:45 AM
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Some examples of my expirence----

This summer, when I have vocation in Australia, I walked in the street and saw some lonely flowers aside. I feel something should be there--butterfly. Then I made a wish to see a butterfly, though in chilly Astralian winter. Half a hour later, when I sat on the stone and think nothing, I naturally look up the sky, a butterfly came down from heaven, hovering around me, then went back. This is the only butterfly I saw in Astralia.

When I was at home, for my birthday, I suddenly felt extremely depressed that day, too depressed to live any longer. Then I pushed the window and wanted to jump off desprately. I looked down from 10th floor and next to end it all. At that moment, a big wasp swung under my sight suddenly and I was so scared to setp back. Then I felt how stupid I was. I felt calm and easy to receive such a birthday present.

Days before, I walked back to my dorm with a bag on my shoulder. I felt nothing and then have a clear vision of myself, a vision casting from above, to see my body walking on with a bag on the shoulder, looks good.
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  #68  
Unread 10-18-2006, 11:13 AM
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

deleted post.

Last edited by jagetoile; 01-08-2008 at 10:52 AM.
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  #69  
Unread 11-17-2007, 04:59 AM
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Talking New idea from another way

Hello everyone, please allow me come back to this old topic in last year. I'm the same person with another user ID citra instead of 5th.

Recently I studied Vedic Astrology, and find my Mars is debilitated in sign Cancer in House 1. As mostly spoken, my Mars square aspect is real in this Astrology system. The square aspect is read as follows:

Mars Square Saturn
Your ability to be cautious and slow helps you achieve success in your work. You are ambitious and are able to shoulder heavy responsibility. You may be prone to giving in to certain negative emotions at times.

Mars Square Moon
A square position of Mars with Moon could occasionally cause an emotional disturbance which you will be able to weather through your calm nature. You are also extremely sensitive.

Mars Square Pluto
A square position of Mars with Pluto grants you ambition, which also results in your advancement. You have a talent to analyse a prospective project and then carry it to completion. However, you should guard against your inclination to become overly aggressive.
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  #70  
Unread 11-17-2007, 06:18 AM
citra citra is offline
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Lightbulb Watery Signs

And Sun, Mecury, Jupiter are not in their own signs in Vedic Astrology.

In Western Astrology no planet in watery sign in my chart, but in Vedic Astrology stronge watery traits indicated. Ascendant, Mars and Sun in Cancer; Jupiter, Uranus and Ketu in Scorpio.
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  #71  
Unread 11-17-2007, 08:12 AM
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Red face Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Hi, Caprising! I'm glad you can read my chart in this way. I have astral projection experience indeed. It souds like a joke, but in my dream I live in a totally different world, if it could be spoken as spirital realm. It can be very scary though. Because I have to relate to some "spiritual beings" like ghost or some other things which can appear and vanish freely in my strange dreams.
In my transit chart Pluto is in close conjuntion with Nep. It can strengthen those strange experience seriously. Even some time I have a dream that I walk though walls to see other people do their things in other rooms, from one room to another, then come back, see my room mates sleeping in their bed, and I come back to my sleeping body then have another absurd dream or wake up if I have to.
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  #72  
Unread 11-17-2007, 08:47 AM
loonymoon loonymoon is offline
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

I have Aries Saturn square Leo Sun and not only it seems to be valid, it also seems to be a very central aspect in my life.

I also have Mars-Saturn square (by sign too). Saturn squaring Mars frustrates its energy, all the qualities associated with Mars. It can manifest in different ways:

* The individual over-compensates for the frustrated Mars qualities - they can be over-assertive, aggressive, even violent, engage in power-struggles, try to dominate others, be invloved in many fights and quarrels, want their will (Mars) implemented without limitations (Saturn) etc.

* Just the opposite - the individual experiences great difficulty in expressing Mars qualities - they might feel they can never get what they want, sometimes even don't know or admit what they want, have a difficulty asserting themselves, shy away from conflict, feel they are weak, sometimes can even become victims of violence, feel a lot of limitations (Saturn) on their will (Mars), having difficulty to act in favor of their interests, sometimes because they just don't feel deserving.

* Any mix of the above manifestations.

* Integration of Mars and Saturn energies (after some work is done to bridge the conflict between them) and using Saturn qualities - realism, persistence, hard work, structure, planning - in support of Mars qualities to achieve their goals and wishes.
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  #73  
Unread 11-17-2007, 09:37 AM
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Hi, loonymoon. Your read is very interesting. And to me according to your reading, I can not extinguish what the mixture is. Because it seems that when the female planet Moon mix, and the mysterous Nep aspect at the same time, the hard and harsh traits of these square aspects smooth a lot. And the Pluto's join make this more and more secretive and confusing.
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  #74  
Unread 11-17-2007, 11:41 AM
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Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th
UNconscious----well, a good word. My unconscious world is very very interesting to me! Can you interpret my Mars more clearly? I can't understand my unconsciousness so clearly... Though every night I have dream, dream like endless movie play in my mind, I don't know whether I live in a dream or in reality. I'd rather stay in my dream! At least not so boring. At least I can fly and walk through walls in my dream, and be any form I'd like to. When I find consciousness is not enough, I'd wish a dream then get it. Life is much more interesting in dream. Maybe I live a too boring life... And Neptune is also very interesting to me, because I feel it must play a very important part in my life. With void of water, many things cannot expressed by affection, and even myself wonder if I really need affection...or be affectional!

Hi 5th

I can totally appreciate your 'dreams' and some of them could easily be past life. Sadly l don't know which aspects in a chart show this but when l was a child l had a few different dreams of past lives. One dream l had, exactly the same for 16 nights in a row and it did not resemble my present 8 years of life in any way. In fact it was very disturbing.

Astral travel is where you can fly and be any shape or form, and see your surroundings and other surroundings whilst in a sub conscious yet conscious state.
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  #75  
Unread 11-17-2007, 01:43 PM
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Smile Re: [HELP] Strange Mars

Hello moulin, then according to your definition, my experience is not exactly astral travelling. But it can be absurd too. Because I just have some strange dreams so often, but rarely have those things when I'm awake. Some time I just see myself do my things from other place like daydreaming. And I daydream a lot. When I concentrate thinking on one thing, I can subconsciously feel and remember another thing when I did it long long time ago if I must depress it consciously. And often subconciously I predict some thing just happen next few hours or days when I'll experience it again at that time. How ridiculous it is!
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