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  #1  
Unread 10-15-2011, 01:11 PM
sequestra sequestra is offline
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Self-harm

I ran a search for thread in this vein and didn't come up with anything, but I apologise if it has been done before and I've missed something.

After reading a different thread concerning afflicted mars/neptune aspects and the recurring theme of self-depreciation/doubt in contributors' analyses, I was curious if this aspect was then also associated with self-harm, which is quite logically at times a consequence of these types of feelings.

If not, what would one look toward in the chart for self-harming tendencies?

I have struggled with the habit on and off since early childhood. For what it's worth, my venus conjuncts mars in pisces 5th house (placidus) square neptune in the 1st. The self-harm association only really "clicked" with me today when reading these threads and envisioning my reactionary mars attacking my 1st house (self). I also have fairly severe body dysmorphia, which I again believe is associated with this area of my chart.

I would be interested in hearing others views on this inclination and the various aspects one might consider in reference to its occurrence.

Cheers

[moved to natal from r&d as question relates to natal chart - moderator]


Last edited by Neptune Rising; 10-24-2011 at 01:18 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 10-20-2011, 02:11 PM
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Re: Self-harm

It would be interesting to study the charts of people who self-harm. While reading your post, I scanned my own chart to look for similarities. While I don't have the mars/neptune challenge you mentioned,I did notice that my first house saturn has a couple of oppositions, one of which is neptune. I also struggled with self-harm through childhood and teens, even into my early 20's.
I wish I could tell you more about indicators , but I'm very much a student. I'm not even sure who would be the best person on here to take this concern to.
I do understand the thinking behind this behavior though.
I hope you have it under control, and am praying for you.
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  #3  
Unread 10-20-2011, 03:51 PM
sequestra sequestra is offline
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Re: Self-harm

Thank you very much for your response hazel, it was very much appreciated. And thank you also for your warm thoughts (I am sending some back to you ~mental hugs~ lol)...

A saturn the 1st afflicted by neptune could certainly be held in no small part accountable for producing these results also, I would think. I'm so pleased to hear that you were able to stop

I guess it's probably not going to be a very popular topic heh, and that's alright, I will keep it in the pipeline for a time when I may choose to pursue this research myself.

Thanks again for your input and warmth

Last edited by sequestra; 10-21-2011 at 08:17 PM.
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Unread 10-21-2011, 05:30 PM
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Re: Self-harm

Well, if it's not a popular topic, lets hope that means there aren't many people who have that challenge. Either way, I would be interested in collaborating with you in studying this, if you would. We could start by gathering info from our own charts and comparing notes. If you're interested, PM me.
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  #5  
Unread 10-21-2011, 08:10 PM
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Re: Self-harm

Can you post your chart?

I don't think there would be a particular signature for this, but rather, we might see some inner pressures that drive you to turn on your body. Cutting, however, should have a Mars component.
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Unread 10-21-2011, 08:19 PM
sequestra sequestra is offline
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Re: Self-harm

Thank you Waybread. Hopefully my attachment worked.

I have been a lurker on the boards for a while and always thoroughly enjoy your postings.

Last edited by sequestra; 12-09-2012 at 05:31 AM.
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Unread 10-21-2011, 10:10 PM
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Re: Self-harm

Thank you Sequestra!!

I see a couple of things going on in your chart. first of all, you have some considerable strengths! That Pluto/Saturn trining your sun, can give you tremendous staying power. If you do set your mind to achieve something, you can move mountains. With Neptune sextile your sun and moon trine Mercury, you have a rich imagination and inner life.

With Neptune in the first house, it is hard to develop a realistic understanding of your body and outward personality. Neptune disolves what it touches, and a positive self-image, with that Mars square, may be hard to come by. You may find yourself trying to meet other people's expectations of you, rather than sticking up for your core sense-of-self, because it is hard to understand yourself in any hard-headed sort of way.

(If it's any consolation, I have Neptune in the first, also!)

Mars rules cutting instruments and bood, so possibly this aspect creates an opening in your life for self-destructive behaviours.

You've also got some hard aspects to your moon. In Gemini, you need a lot of mental stimulation, and if you don't get it, you can easily become bored. Your moon (emotions, feelings, needs) is being bombarded by some planetary heavies--Saturn, Pluto, and Uranus. Possibly some kind of meditation or centering exercises would be a big help here: just ways to calm down. Mercury square Pluto can make you a very critical thinker--and at times, a very pessimistic one. This aspect is a good servant, but a poor master. You'd probably make a good editor, film critic, or book reviewer--so long as you don't become overly harsh with people. But the big need is just not to turn your critical mind on yourself!

With Jupiter on your ascendant opposite your moon, you may struggle with your weight. The good news is that people actually probably find you attractive regardless-- independently of how you might feel about yourself.

If you are able to control your self-harming tendencies, congratulations on your good progress. Each good day is to your credit, one step at a time.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #8  
Unread 10-22-2011, 07:52 PM
Beautiful Ending Beautiful Ending is offline
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Re: Self-harm

*Deleted post*

Last edited by Beautiful Ending; 12-05-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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  #9  
Unread 10-22-2011, 09:20 PM
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Re: Self-harm

I'm not an expert here, but noticed you have Mars squaring Pluto in your 12th house. Mars is related to violence, and the 12th is house of self undoing.
It's also interesting that Scorpio (which deals with surgery and cutting instruments) rules your 12th house.

It's so sad that you and sequestra are going through this. You're both beautiful young women who have so much to offer the world.
I know what it feels like though... I've been there.
If you'd like to talk about it give a pm.
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Unread 10-23-2011, 03:26 PM
sequestra sequestra is offline
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Re: Self-harm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Ending View Post
I'm very pleased I've found this thread as I've also been searching for answers to the same question. Unfortunatly I have nothing to offer you in terms of information but feel free to study and compare my chart as I've also had problems with self harm.
Hello Beautiful. I'm sorry you have had similar struggles - I hope they're presently somewhat controlled. I think what I dislike most about this (and all of the other addictions I've wrestled with), is that severance/abstinence is never seemingly "certain"/permanent. I mean, I can go through fairly extensive periods of not abusing myself in one way or another, but it's almost always bubbling under the surface, and it takes a lot of self control not to engage in something endangering. Or conversely, even during those scarce time periods where I actually have little trouble controlling it, as the urges aren't there or they are very weak, and things seem to be going generally well, fast forward two months and there's a strong chance I'll be doing it again. It's always so unpredictable - I can't predict myself at all... And there is a strong element of self sabotage. I want so badly to stop, but it's... Well I haven't mastered this in almost 29 years, let's put it that way. So yes, it's hard.

My heart truly goes out to you... Hazel too. But hey, she has a few years on us and she is no longer in its grips - so there's some hope right there.

Your chart... I'm very much a novice but what jumped out at me (apart from your ascendant conjuncting mine hehe) were your sun's squares to uranus and neptune (mine squares uranus too), your merc/nep square and probably most significantly, mars square pluto in the 12th. Heavy.

I hope someone with more experience can chime in for you. Waybread gave a great assessment of mine, and perhaps someone similarly knowledgeable will contribute with reference to your chart.
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  #11  
Unread 10-23-2011, 03:43 PM
sequestra sequestra is offline
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Re: Self-harm

This is in response to Waybread's post - I just want to give a huge thanks to you for taking the time to have a gander and offer your constructive insights.

Concerning the 1st house neptune, you're spot on (having it yourself you no doubt have a very intimate understanding of its reverberations). I actually get the sense that this is a really pivotal point in my chart, and another astrologer on these boards has implicated it in my "chart engine" - that is, my venus conjunct mars in pisces square neptune in the 1st. My sun no doubt helps this BS along. Delusion, confusion, and insanity with respect to my sense of self (or lack thereof). As mentioned in my initial post, I have had severe body dysmorphia from a very early age, and it's something I grapple with on a daily basis. I am confronted with a different form every time I pass a reflective surface. It is truly the bane of my existence, and all of my other mental **** stems from it (and exacerbates it, in a chicken/egg kind of way). I.e: If I'm in a sad mood, mirrors are dangerous. If I didn't have this significant problem I would in many ways be unstoppable, no doubt thanks to the saturn/pluto trine that you noted.

The jupiter on my asc (opposing my moon) is perhaps entirely responsible for my weight fluctuations, and my excessive tendencies in general. But weight is an unusual issue for me. I was severely anorexic for four years (at my lowest 60 lbs last year), and maintaining this took considerable willpower, and a lot of self hate (and so in that respect for me it wasn't too hard). I am presently chubby, (a psychological exercise I've enforced upon myself), and am only now looking to shed what I've gained and find some middle ground in normalcy. I know I can do it, I'm just scared that I'll overdo it again. That's really not something I want to go back to. Temperance is what I strive for, but it's one of the most difficult things to master. I even managed to do moderation to its extreme, with a truly perverted version of asceticism.

I oscillate between being completely out of control and being super rigidly disciplined and overly-controlling. I guess that sounds like a person full of squares... Or a whiny pisces complaining about everything heheh.

Last edited by sequestra; 10-23-2011 at 04:02 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 10-23-2011, 07:18 PM
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Re: Self-harm

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrah View Post
I'm not an expert here, but noticed you have Mars squaring Pluto in your 12th house. Mars is related to violence, and the 12th is house of self undoing.
It's also interesting that Scorpio (which deals with surgery and cutting instruments) rules your 12th house.

It's so sad that you and sequestra are going through this. You're both beautiful young women who have so much to offer the world.
I know what it feels like though... I've been there.
If you'd like to talk about it give a pm.
OP doesn't have mars/pluto square BUT mars quincunx pluto, which can attract threatening situations and perhaps not understand why.

mars quincunx Pluto
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=320251&postcount=11


Quote:
Venus Quincunx (Inconjunct) Pluto

Fear of disappointment and fear of others is the mechanism for keeping your love nature on a roller coaster. Growth requires you to be honest as to what is causing your fears. They are rooted in your lack of good boundaries and lack of positive self esteem. You are easily pulled into overly burdensome roles in other people's lives because you feel it is your lot in life. Further, your unconscious compulsiveness first ritualizes then continuously repeats self defeating and denying reactions to others. Careful examination of your routines and feelings about yourself are necessary to free your love to develop and grow. This creates a deep, inner healing.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/q...retations.html
here's an excellent link for other mars/pluto aspects

http://www.celestialperspective.com/library/marspluto-aspectswhat-determines-theyre
mars/Pluto aspects by Donna Cunningham

mars square Neptune
Mars‑Neptune Square Mars‑Neptune Opposition
Painful things either ignored ie self‑deception, or hypochondriac type, imaginary things (Neptune) Deceive or be deceived
http://www.astrologyindepth.com/Mars_square_Neptune
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13104&page=2
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11521
http://astrology.astrozoom.com/index.php?title=NEPTUNE_PARALLEL%2C_CONJUNCTION%2C _SQUARE_OR_OPPOSITION_TO_MARS

This neptune also squares venus which suggests romantic and financial disappointments, confusions and rose tinted glasses.

the chart as a whole leans towards introversion and inner life being important rather than being out there. In Equal house mars/venus would be 4th house, did one parent have bit of a temper at all? With 3planets in 4th suggests are you a home bird, could work from home even

Neptune in lst House – angular house
Should try to avoid alcohol and drugs. Often have an air of mystery about you. Indicates a sensitive ‑ intuitive awareness of yourself and your environment. Highly impressionable. Certainly artistic and a great appreciation of music. Dreamy innocent look ‑ drift off when talking! Dissatisfied with appearance in some way ie; manner, looks. Sometime appear to live in world of own. Idealist. Physical appearance probably something you don't care for. People may often say to you ‑ look at me when I'm talking to you! Can daydream with eyes wide open. Neptunian illnesses ‑ movements affected ‑ will walk funny ‑ at least with one foot. (twine‑toed as small child or when first walking ) Mysterious allergies on skin or where obvious, and suddenly disappear.


Last edited by astrologer50; 10-23-2011 at 07:25 PM.
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Unread 10-23-2011, 07:23 PM
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Re: Self-harm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Ending View Post
I'm very pleased I've found this thread as I've also been searching for answers to the same question. Unfortunatly I have nothing to offer you in terms of information but feel free to study and compare my chart as I've also had problems with self harm.
mars quincunx Neptune
This suggests to me you are drawn to 'questionable relationships' with a tendency to dismiss or overlook pertinent factors as insignificant until you realise it's too late and perhaps you should have paid more attention.
Mars Quincunx (Inconjunct) Neptune

"Your idealism and inflated expectations of others and life can lead you into very frustrating circumstances where you feel emotionally and physically drained. Your energy and emotions strengthen as you learn how and where to be involved in other people's projects. You have difficulty learning realistic boundaries with others and realistic limits as to what you can expect from yourself. Artistic expression can help give form to your humanitarian temperament."
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/quincunxinterpretations.html


mars square pluto is 7' approaching wide orb. This aspect really needs to be doing something physical, the riskier the better, like mountain climbing, bungie jumping for example

Sun square moon shows divorced parents.

Quote:
shows conflict in certain aspects of the life. Self-expression is blocked by emotional hangups or habit patterns that may be inherited or conditioned by past events. Family and domestic affairs keep you from developing the way you would like. The conditions in your early family environment may have caused difficulties in understanding and getting along with the opposite sex. In these relationships you can be too argumentative and defensive. You may need to get the chip off your shoulder sometimes. This aspect suggests a conflict between the ego and the emotions. There is a presence of tension between your outer and inner self.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sunaspects.html#susmo
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Unread 10-23-2011, 08:24 PM
Beautiful Ending Beautiful Ending is offline
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Re: Self-harm

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Last edited by Beautiful Ending; 12-05-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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Unread 10-24-2011, 01:02 AM
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Re: Self-harm

Sequestra, thanks.

I actually got into astrology due to a burning identity quest. I felt I needed, in the worst way, to find out why I was on the planet in a very individual sense. I never did find out why, but in the process of the search, I learned a lot of astrology.

I think Neptune in the first can indicate that kind of fuzziness about life. The question, "Why am I on the planet?" presupposes a solid sense of ego ("I") in the first place. So I gave it up as a bad job. I try to live a good life, and hope I am on the right course.

Congratulations on each day that you make it with control over any self-destructive behaviours. One day at a time. Each day is an achievement.

Beautiful Ending, I think Uranus square sun can be difficult, because Uranus wants constant change, oftentimes in a disruptive way. Chiron in the mix can make it feel that it "hurts to be you." I think the key is to implement these planets' positive features. For Uranus, --personal liberation and freedom-- into your life ongoingly. It doesn't have to be in any major way--just something that makes you feel you've done something that gets you out of your rut. Constructive stuff, of course. Addictions are the biggest rut of all. With Chiron, see what wisdom you've gained from your mastery and struggles to date. It gives you a lot of compassion for others who suffer, and you can be helpful to them.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 10-24-2011, 01:59 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Self-harm

Quote:My heart truly goes out to you... Hazel too. But hey, she has a few years on us and she is no longer in its grips - so there's some hope right there.

Yes , there's hope! You're attitude is so positive. That's THE MOST important thing!!! You can take this experience and turn it into something beautiful.
It's an awful thing to go through, but when you overcome this you will be so strong that there's NO breaking you!
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Last edited by hazelrah; 10-24-2011 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Sequestra's comment did not come up as a quote.
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Unread 10-24-2011, 03:06 PM
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Re: Self-harm

waybread,
Quote:
Beautiful Ending, I think Uranus square sun can be difficult, because Uranus wants constant change, oftentimes in a disruptive way. Chiron in the mix can make it feel that it "hurts to be you." I think the key is to implement these planets' positive features. For Uranus, --personal liberation and freedom-- into your life ongoingly. It doesn't have to be in any major way--just something that makes you feel you've done something that gets you out of your rut. Constructive stuff, of course. Addictions are the biggest rut of all. With Chiron, see what wisdom you've gained from your mastery and struggles to date. It gives you a lot of compassion for others who suffer, and you can be helpful to them.
I have this in fixed signs and don't like constant change or do disruptive things. What I do find it can add impatience and perhaps wanting to do someting unusual or different that involves the ego, pride etc.
I doubt whether she will recognise this aspect of her pesonality either as she has Sun square neptune also very tight which adds a soft sacrificial nature and softens matters considerably.

Furthermore, moon conj Uranus can describe mother (Aquarius) wanting freedom and independence within her relationships and this then passes down to her. It can also suggest a broken relationships with mother, women, and friendships and is on my list of divorce aspects..
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