What's the difference between these two placements?

[Evolving717223]

For the sake of fair and easy comparison, the placements in this comparison won't have any aspects, houses, or anything else taken into account.

Mercury in capricorn in retrogade.

Mercury in cancer not in retrogade.

What would be the difference between these two things?

Because as far as I'm concerned, retrogade is just the energy being reversed, at least in a way.

And capricorn and cancer are opposites.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Evolving717223

For the sake of fair and easy comparison, the placements in this comparison won't have any aspects, houses,
or anything else taken into account.

Mercury in capricorn in retrogade.

Mercury in cancer not in retrogade.

What would be the difference
between these two things?

Because as far as I'm concerned, retrogade is just the energy being reversed, at least in a way.

And capricorn and cancer are opposites.

CAPRICORN is ruled by SATURN and CANCER is ruled by MOON
and so
condition of natal SATURN or MOON
forms part of the delineation

[Evolving717223]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

CAPRICORN is ruled by SATURN and CANCER is ruled by MOON
and so
condition of natal SATURN or MOON
forms part of the delineation

So how exactly does that answer my question?

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Evolving717223

So how exactly does that answer my question?

By answering your question

[Evolving717223]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

By answering your question

I dont see how it does. Can you explain what you meant in much simpler terms?

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by Evolving717223

So how exactly does that answer my question?

JA is well informed and also terse.
So allow me to expand a bit:
There is a level of astrological analysis involving the condition of the rulers of the planets in question.
What JA was pointing toward was that, without regard for retrogradation, one Merc will be influenced by Saturn in the chart and the other Merc, by Moon. So the difference between the two examples is dependent upon the condition of Saturn in the Merc in Cap chart and the condition of Moon in the Mer in CN chart.

Typically a direct Merc is more favorable than a retro Merc, but again it depends upon the overall context of the native and the chart in question.

[Evolving717223]

Originally Posted by IleneK

JA is well informed and also terse.
So allow me to expand a bit:
There is a level of astrological analysis involving the condition of the rulers of the planets in question.
What JA was pointing toward was that, without regard for retrogradation, one Merc will be influenced by Saturn in the chart and the other Merc, by Moon. So the difference between the two examples is dependent upon the condition of Saturn in the Merc in Cap chart and the condition of Moon in the Mer in CN chart.

Typically a direct Merc is more favorable than a retro Merc, but again it depends upon the overall context of the native and the chart in question.

Oh okay, I get it. So merc in cap is like taking one's natal saturn and expressing their mercury using their natal saturn?

Also, if that is what it actually means, then how come one could have an aspect between merc in cap and their own natal saturn?

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by Evolving717223

Oh okay, I get it. So merc in cap is like taking one's natal saturn and expressing their mercury using their natal saturn?

Also, if that is what it actually means, then how come one could have an aspect between merc in cap and their own natal saturn?

That's not what it means; that is kind of what it means.

Read up on and learn about the influence of rulers, and then you can answer your own question.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Evolving717223

Oh okay, I get it.
So merc in cap is like taking one's natal saturn
and expressing their mercury using their natal saturn?
Also, if that is what it actually means, then
how come one could have an aspect between merc in cap
and their own natal saturn?

It is possible for a Capricorn Mercury
to aspect either
a Capricorn Saturn
or
a Pisces Saturn
or
an Aries Saturn
or
a Taurus Saturn
or
a Cancer Saturn
or
a Virgo Saturn
or
a Libra Saturn
or
a Scorpio Saturn
and
each of those placements of Mercury aspecting Saturn
have different delineations dependent on the natal chart

[Lykanized]

A retrograde Capricorn Mercury is still ruled by Saturn and isn't Cancerian in nature but rather the energy is just expressed unconventionally, not as if it's 180* around because it's still in Capricorn

[Evolving717223]

Originally Posted by Lykanized

A retrograde Capricorn Mercury is still ruled by Saturn and isn't Cancerian in nature but rather the energy is just expressed unconventionally, not as if it's 180* around because it's still in Capricorn

So basically what you're saying is, the angle is still falling within the capricorn sign, except saturn itself is moving in the opposite direction, causing the energy to still be there, just expressed negatively?

Even so, wouldn't that still make the energy produce similar effects to a merc that is cancerian in nature?

As negative cancer = cap

And negative cap = cancer

Unless what you mean is that it's actually just taking capricorn being still expressed, just not able to do it as well, due to being slowed down, in a way.

[greybeard]

What Ilene means is that the Cosmic Condition of the ruler of another planet strongly affects how that planet will function.

In the case of Mercury in Capricorn, Mercury is true to its own nature (which along with Moon is "neutral", and strongly influenced by other planets) while modified by the nature of Capricorn. Then we take the condition of Saturn into account because Saturn affects all planets it rules according to its own conditioning.

Planets ruled by Saturn will not function the same with Saturn in Libra trine Uranus and sextile Moon as they will with Saturn in Leo and square Moon and Uranus.

[greybeard]

There's a new thread, "Share the nuance...." which may answer some of your questions about rulerships.

[greybeard]

You do not replace Mercury with Saturn. Saturn is Mercury's ruler, not his surrogate.

Saturn may, or may not, aspect Mercury. What you are looking to do at the outset is to determine the general condition of Saturn -- first investigating Mercury.

If the lord is weak, deviate, embattled with some other planet...then he cannot support and strengthen his vassal. The vassal (Mercury in this case) is strengthened or weakened by his lord.