Fate vs. Random chance

Is everything pre-planned by someone up there? Or is it just random chances, what's happening in the world, and also each individual's births, lives and deaths?

What is your belief on this, and how and where does Astrology fit in?

Probably a mixture of both.
There’s a lot of things people can’t control even if they wanted to. Trump became president and many leftists didn’t want to accept it

If something is not controllable by people, does it mean that it is pre-determined by some unknown force such as fate or destiny or God's will?

Senecar said:

If something is not controllable by people, does it mean that it is pre-determined by some unknown force such as fate or destiny or God's will?

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I think so.
There are many forces that also aren’t human and that are far greater in scope and magnitude, especially in a planetary or cosmic scale. Earthquakes for example, or tsunamis. Or at a universal scale, the motions and energy of objects in space of objects too large to comprehend.

In Ptolemaic cosmology, the heavenly bodies that emit rays that are the causes action, etc.

If all the particles were present at the Big Bang, at one point, and say we had a machine powerful enough to calculate the location and motion of each individual particle, then we can prove each particle and their motions have been determined since the beginning of time. Therefore each motion, our thoughts and actions for example, have already been set into motion. It’s only a matter of calculation to figure out what’s next.

Bunraku said:

I think so.
There are many forces that also aren’t human and that are far greater in scope and magnitude, especially in a planetary or cosmic scale. Earthquakes for example, or tsunamis. Or at a universal scale, the motions and energy of objects in space of objects too large to comprehend.

In Ptolemaic cosmology, the heavenly bodies that emit rays that are the causes action, etc.

Click to expand...

There was a Volcano explosion in Indonesia today, and a huge meteor from the sky dropped into Japan. And yes, we humans don't have a clue anything about it, as to when it will happen or why.

I suppose there are more powerful and heavenly forced up there creating these events, or it could be the work of the universe out there. One thing sure seems it is beyond human understanding.

I suppose Astrology and Tarot Readings are for trying to find out about these energies and forces which will take place in the future.

Bunraku said:

If all the particles were present at the Big Bang, at one point, and say we had a machine powerful enough to calculate the location and motion of each individual particle, then we can prove each particle and their motions have been determined since the beginning of time. Therefore each motion, our thoughts and actions for example, have already been set into motion. It’s only a matter of calculation to figure out what’s next.

Click to expand...

What are some of your calculation methods?

Senecar said:

What are some of your calculation methods?

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None. It’s in theory if a device can do such a thing

Senecar said:

Is everything pre-planned by someone up there? Or is it just random chances, what's happening in the world, and also each individual's births, lives and deaths?

What is your belief on this, and how and where does Astrology fit in?

Click to expand...

From my point of view, i believe that everything in the beggining is planned ( events ), but after that what we will do is up to us ( free will and will we make karma or diharma out of it ). I will give examples:

1. Let say that i see a contest-poster witch is what ive waited for a long time. <-- this is the "planned event". Its up to my free will now, either to go to the contest or not.
2. If we look at synastry/ composite we will see the good and bad aspects. The aspects and planet positions are what is planned to be...but its up to us ( our maturity ) and our deeds, which will answer, whether this connection will last or not.
3. Fate give people charts for success if they follow their heart ( North Node, for example ), but the person ends up wasting his energy in drinking, bad company, ect and waste their life. Somebody has to become a doctor, because one day he will be the one who will save the failing heart of the president <-- who will save the country from bankruptcy. But the doctor waste his life on doing nothing all day, drinking, no diploma, no nothing and the country one day ends up in bankruptcy.

I think that astrology, numerology and other occult sphere say to the person what he is good at and on what he has to work in order to become better. For example im good at teaching, giving information, portrait painting, art and this is in my natal, way before i even knew about astrology. From my experience, when i didnt knew what to do in life, i felt a hollow in myself and ive get into deppressions ( "what to do in life ?" ) and i`ve spoke to people and everybody who doesnt had a purpose in life, had this hole inside of them. The moment i knew what is my purpose ( teacher ), since then this cold feeling in me in no more and everything is going smoothly, because i follow my North Node.
Yes, i believe that everything is planned ( the people you will meet, the events, places you will go, familly, profession, ect ), but when fate meets us with somebody, then she gives us free-will in order to see how matured we have become and will we make karma or diharma out of it. And i do believe in reincarnation and i think that when one doesnt do his mission, in the next life he has to do it again, but with more obstacles. God has a plan for us, but in the end we have free will. Free will to waste or build our lifes.

Great post Jacklier, thanks for that.

However, it seems that it sounds logically contradictory to say that, every event is planned and pre-determined by some unknown force, and then saying at the same time, it is also up to each individual to make things work, happen or fail or succeed etc.

Logically, if the former is true, then the latter is false, vice versa.

Saying other wise sounds like, 1 = 1, but 1 is not equal to 1, which is self contradiction?

I suppose the world events and people's lives are not based on logical system. but does it mean that they are all in chaos?

Senecar said:

Great post Jacklier, thanks for that.

However, it seems that it sounds logically contradictory to say that, every event is planned and pre-determined by some unknown force, and then saying at the same time, it is also up to each individual to make things work, happen or fail or succeed etc.

Logically, if the former is true, then the latter is false, vice versa.

Saying other wise sounds like, 1 = 1, but 1 is not equal to 1, which is self contradiction?

I suppose the world events and people's lives are not based on logical system. but does it mean that they are all in chaos?

Click to expand...

Yes, 1 = 1 <--- let say that this pre-determined, but "1 is not equal to 1", this is where free-will comes. Maybe our views on things аre logically contradictory to Nature, Fate, God. I do believe that everything is a clock and every person, animal, bug, plant, stars, ect. are a part of the mechanism of the clock. We are all connected. For example you`ve wrote something in this forum, that somebody will read and will expand his way of looking at things. <-- Fate in a way made you to come here, so one day you can help somebody.
Ive been on another astro forum. Ive made a profile, because something in me just wanted it to be done. Ive felt a very special feeling. And after a week or two i met a girl, which from astrology point of view, we were spouses in past life and we have karma to fix. We have the free-will to either stop communicating and to end it, or to countinue. We are still communicating till this day, we live in different countries, but everything is smooth. You see ? Some thing are just planned. Not everything, but only the events that may change you in a way. I do believe that our intuition is just the voice of our spirit who wants to help us in our path. Like when you do something wrong and you feel bad ( your soul is unhappy ) or when you do something good and you feel something like a wave all around your body. Yes, this doesnt sound logically contradictory, but lets say that in this site we live as spiritual beings, while outside of our homes we live in the ordinary materialistic way. What do you think ?