The birthchart of a Monster - manchester terrorist.

ashriia said:

I'm attaching the natal chart, and progressed chart of the terrorist in manchester for the date of attack, bear in mind; time of birth is unknown so it is a noon chart.

I've been looking over this chart, and thinking alot about it philosophically, like what is the purpose of a native being born to a chart like this. How would a native, use a chart configuration like this in a positive way. Because to be honest, if I saw a natal chart like this of anyone I were to meet I'd run, fast. To me, the configurations are just plain evil [...]

I know astrologers often say we are born with challenges, but looking at a chart like this, what is the purpose of the native?

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I think that would be hard to tell without knowing the birth time. I have a wretched Mars t-square also, making up the backbone of my chart. In general my chart doesn't have much in the way of reprieves. If I had committed a violent crime, no one would have difficulty in finding the astro factors contributing.

People have differing responses to life difficulties, as illustrated in the natal chart, and one can not know a person's particular life circumstances or experiences if simply given a natal chart or placements. I've seen many charts too and known many people. Probably for that reason, and likely also due to knowing my own chart, I wouldn't necessarily conclude that a chart like this would be destined to evil.

I know a girl who was born on the same day. She's a classmate of mine.

Nothing that you've described of this terrorists character syncs up with the person I know. She's very considerate and kind, loves to help out her friends and family with advice and she's genuine in her religious sentiments (she subscribes to the love and compassionate aspects of Christianity)

The negativity that you see on the day manifests in her through developing cancer at a young age, which disallowed her to pursue sports to the level that she did prior to being diagnosed. I'm more likely to be a terrorist than her, I can assure you that.

But yes, the day is obviously a stressful one if one kid in England decided to blow up the place in the name of Allah while another girl in a different part of the world got struck down by cancer which ironically made her draw closer to God. Time of birth, society, family, the country of origin and it's fate are all important components to take into account when looking at a natal chart.

conspiracy theorist said:

Time of birth, society, family, the country of origin and it's fate are all important components to take into account when looking at a natal chart.

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Its easy to make astrological predictions after the events have already occurred
Thank you for your example, anthropologist-sociologist-geneologist Astrologer, CS.

If you’re going to gather that much information about someone, then why bother looking at the natal chart. If someone grew up in a religious extremist household, culture, etc. and the person strongly believes in such ideas, and goes on about it, then it’s pretty clear what the motive behind it is.

conspiracy theorist said:

society, family, the country of origin and it's fate are all important components to take into account when looking at a natal chart.

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I touched upon that briefly in a previous post here. I agree with you on that point.

I'd like to also add, that men in general tend to be more tuned into their mars energy. And mars is being restricted by saturn in the chart and involved in t-squares, with pluto and ruler of the moon. Also influencing mercury and sun. There was alot brewing beneath the surface for sure.

Sorry to hear about your friend, I have family members that had died of cancer, also have family currently with cancer and cancer in remission. Cancer so often seem to occur when there is a pent up emotion, something that needs releasing. You see alot of pluto/moon women that develop cancer. If your friend shares this chart, look at ruler of moon conjunct pluto. Maybe there is some type of healing your friend can do to release memories/emotions haven't been expressed. There are some indications also of sexual abuse in a configuration like this and also of anger issues. So therapy would be a good place to start IMO.

Bunraku said:

If someone grew up in a religious extremist household, culture, etc. and the person strongly believes in such ideas, and goes on about it, then it’s pretty clear what the motive behind it is.

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It's not that black and white however. As someone can hate- be ignorant of- a particular group of people/person and never carry out a violent act.
The recipe for why a native might act upon violence can be seen in a natal chart though.

In erecting a natal for an unknown birth time, it is better to use the statistically obtained "average baby birth time" rather than the commonly applied 12 Noon time. For births during weekdays, the peak of births is between 8 and 9 AM, and 12 Noon and 1 PM, which will give us an average of 10:30 AM for unknown birth times. For Saturday and Sunday births, the peak is between 11PM and 6 AM, so the average for Saturday and Sunday births would be 3:30 AM. The subject of this thread, born on a Saturday, would therefore have the birth chart erected for 2:30 AM, to be closer to the statistical average birth times for Saturdays and Sundays.

Also, regarding ascendants: the ascendants of many cities are to be found in mundane astrology: when the birth time is unknown, but the birthplace is known, the use of the city ascendant can be used to set the chart, or the ascendant from the statistical average birth time (10:30 AM or, for weekend births, 2:30 AM) can be modified by the ascendant of the birth city.

Obviously these expedients are not as good as the exact time of birth, but they do improve the chances of the chart being at least somewhat more correct, than if these measures were ignored.

The other expedient for unknown birth times is to make what is essentially a symbolic chart, in the form of a Solar chart (the Sun always being in the first house, the chart erected by sign/house-what amounts to a whole sign type format)

Indeed, there are so many people with the same planets everyday, and they are so different, that the interesting thing is to see why the natal chart can make it so "bad" or "good", not just for one of them, but for everyone born that day.
This works for every person born in all the 365 days every year. The configurations are always pretty much the same, in a day.
Then, if you believe in astrology, you'll know they have the same kind of energies at the core, and it's up to the person to work them out, depending on all the coincident factors mentioned above, that's sure.
But the point is, they all will all have a t-square working the same way, and each of them will work it out differently, but always related to the elements astrologically involved in those aspects.

Now, another important point not to forget, is that astrology is above personal and social considerations. There's no "good", there's no "bad". There is just positions and qualities, and how you mix them.
Example, this guy you call Monster is a real monster to us all here I hope, but he did the best thing he could have done, to him, that was good. And unfortunately he's not the only one to think so.

dr. farr said:

In erecting a natal for an unknown birth time, it is better to use the statistically obtained "average baby birth time" rather than the commonly applied 12 Noon time. For births during weekdays, the peak of births is between 8 and 9 AM, and 12 Noon and 1 PM, which will give us an average of 10:30 AM for unknown birth times. For Saturday and Sunday births, the peak is between 11PM and 6 AM, so the average for Saturday and Sunday births would be 3:30 AM. The subject of this thread, born on a Saturday, would therefore have the birth chart erected for 2:30 AM, to be closer to the statistical average birth times for Saturdays and Sundays.

Also, regarding ascendants: the ascendants of many cities are to be found in mundane astrology: when the birth time is unknown, but the birthplace is known, the use of the city ascendant can be used to set the chart, or the ascendant from the statistical average birth time (10:30 AM or, for weekend births, 2:30 AM) can be modified by the ascendant of the birth city.

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How fascinating, thank you for sharing this.

I tried this method with my own natal chart, not the 2nd part though, since that will require more time to figure out and I will need to be done when I have more time.

I was born during a weekday, and indeed fall into the time frames mentioned. So I pulled up a 10:30am chart and a noon chart. And indeed, the 10:30 chart was closer to my correct ascendant, off by a sign vs off by 2 signs with the noon - Interesting. I guess the added ingredient then would indeed need to be the 2nd paragraph or just determining the event in relation to both charts and seeing what "fit" the events better with regard to transits.

I'm going to be adding this useful info to my astrology database. Thanks!