Lenzites betulina
Well-known member
Wow, Rosie, the best thing you've read on the subject to date? A statement such as this is really quite touching. To say the least: thank you.
I had to learn about Neptune in Capricorn because it is present in my chart. There wasn't much information about it in the books I had, and thus I took to good-old-fashioned observation in order to gain an assessment of the energies at hand, how they could manifest, and furthermore, how they could be used, as they were, afterall, an integral part of my own life.
I never much bought into the whole, "It's generational, everybody has it" mindset. Some people resonate more to the outer planets. When this is the case the outer planets will have a stronger influence over the life of the native.
I have not devoted any study or observation to Neptune conjunct Uranus in Capricorn and thus have little to say. I would much rather hear the words of others regarding this topic.
The key to success for the Pluto in Scorpio Generation is to pull off positive Taurus. What does that mean to you?
Sedna dwells in Taurus. Sedna presides over the ages. The Pluto-Sedna opposition of the late 80's was important. I have yet to understand just what it means.
Other than that, I don't logically follow you. Something to do with mastering the signs opposite to balance the energy of the planets placed in that sign? Please explain!
The shadow aside of the Pluto in Scorpio generation is pure evil. The Pluto in Aquarius Generation's opinion of you-all will be very important.
Let's define evil as an absolute absence of goodness at the time of birth.
Yes, human beings behave and think in all kinds of negative ways, but pure evil is something else. When set beside pure evil, negativity at it's most intense is just a misguided child. Evil is something different.
The word shouldn't be thrown around lightly. I've seen innocents stigmatized for their supposed "evilness". The social castigation forever left a mark on their souls. It were as though a witch hunt was taking place and the accusers, moreso than the "witches" were the ones truly spreading "evil" in the name of goodness. But even in this case, the accusers were simply misguided. Any evil that was present was acting through them and not of them.
Pluto in Scorpio is facsinating. It gives me an ability to focus on things most people aren't aware of. I'm not exactly sure how it effects the others, but it grants me an investigative ability, observational powers, and a certain gravitation towards mystical literature from the late 1800s through the early 1900s. Although Pluto in Scorpio is known for associations with the occult, social definition of occult does not match the literal definition. In a social sense, the word "occult" conjurs images of oiji boards, spells, and divinations. However, "occult" simply means "knowledge of the hidden". Knowledge of the hidden is dear to me. I'm not so interested in what everybody else knows, nor am I all that interested in jumping on any band wagons. I look to the underlying cause of things. Always have. In this quest to understand the underlying causes of this that and the other, I turn to history, psychology, science, mysticism, and review any and all explainations that are applicable. Then I test the information, as well as my conclusions. This is through the lense of the third house and conjunct Mercury. Manifestations may be different for those with a different house placement.
Pluto in scorpio kind of reminds me of a documentary I recently saw about neuroscience. They stated something like, the brain of an addict learns too well. Something to do with the reward response. It makes the associations too quickly and in certain social circumstances addiction results. That's kind of what Pluto in Scorpio reminds me of. Great learner, but learns too well. Simply, we are very likely take what we learn to a deeper level and when taken on such deep levels, there is no light heartedness about the things we do and say, especially when "knowledge of the hidden" shows us the deeper implications of half-hearted comments passed off in a jocoserious tone. Thus, lightheartedness puzzles the more plutonian of us. We don't deal well with the conflicting sets of instruction(or expectations) so ubiquitous in our culture today. Until more mature and able to handle the plutonian energies, these conflicting expectations may cause us to excell in one of two conflicting expectations to our own detriment, because we are not following the status quo by doing so. If the social conditions are poor, calamity can result from the learning. Thus, Pluto in Scorpio can serve as a canary in the coal mine to expose what is wrong with a culture, what forms of nourishment and integrity it is lacking in. To a certain extent, we take things and intensify them.
Another phenomena I notice is that with Pluto in Scorpio, at least for me, I take heed to the temporal nature of many things. Most importantly, I notice within myself a lack of the inherent fear many of my elders deal with Pluto. The lack of fear is based on the inherent knowledge that each plutonian lesson is designed to transform an entity into the next phase of existence. It is more than likely that whatever has been gained from the experience was worth the troubles. Think baptism by fire. Think learning the hard way. Think "whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger". Think of the struggle required for success. Think of the alcoholic who has not the power to quit until Pluto comes along and bottoms him out, then and only then, is he ready to change his ways and live a life of sobriety. Think Shiva, the hindu god of death, and how one may be able to pray to him to kill the worn out parts of oneself that serve as obstacles to enlightenment. This is the power of Pluto and although it causes many causualties, those of us who can get through it come out with something we couldn't have otherwise. Perhaps we with Pluto in scorpio are more likely to accept this than other generations. We can use the struggles we go through to shift our personal paradigms and we can do this deliberately if need be.
However, I'm not so sure of the applicability of what I say to the rest of my generation. I do not consort with them much.
My generation lives in a convenient fantasy world...but why not? The humanity we were born into doesn't seem to want us. Most of us were raised with our parents too busy with jobs or television to tend to nuturing our emotional needs. Most of us were fed carcinogenic materials before even weaning from the breast and then told we had to look like a pop star to have any sense of worth as a human being(as though that would be realistic for the young men with hips and the young women with poorly proportioned bodies due to a diet high in hormones and a sedentary lifestyle). Now we find ourselves in an economy that expects us to be happy to have a job, even if it's flipping burgers for minimum wage after getting a college degree. Well thank you for the scraps from the table. Many of us see these things and reject them.
One of the most pivotal things that happened for my generation was when Bush ran against Kerry. That moment in time told each and every one of us that our votes were meaningless. It confirmed the corruption of the government. It confirmed to many of us that there was no point in getting involved in the system, or having any faith in it. It told us that our country cared not for its people. It were as though a dark cloud blanketed our nation on that day. Is the ratio of Pluto in Scorpio non-voters to voters higher than generations past? I'd expect it would be. Every election since Bush our votes have been tampered with. Many of us were at or around voting age for this Bush/Kerry conundrum. Those of us born later on may perceive tampering with votes as a normal occurence of the times, but for those of us who were approximately voting age during the second Bush election, we saw a shift take place. Many of Pluto in Scorpios do not trust the government.
This generation came at the time of many shifts. The younger part of this generation may not remember the energies of the old, but the older part is able to tap into these energies and compare the world they were born into with the world as it is now. At least I am. It shifted around with those born around 89. Many of the dragons born in 88 have exceptional abilities. Those born in the 90's are likely to perceive the state of things as they are now as normal. This is because of the availability of current technologies in their lives. The speed at which technology advances makes the difference of a few short years from the latter half of the 80s to the early 90's monumental.
When I was in school all the schools were renovating their libraries into "media centers". So in elementary school we had a library. We used card catalogues to look up books. We also had textbooks from the fifties. Our maps still had the USSR on them. They had to tell us that the USSR was really Russia and that the maps had changed. I bring this up to mention that a portion of my education was from the same textbooks that children were learning from in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. The authors of the text books in the 50s were likely to have knowledge dating back to the early 1900s and these authors were in turn, likely to be influenced by their elders, people who had seen the 1800s first hand. Thus, the collective consciousness embodied in these books could easily be traced back to the 1800's.
Then the library closed for construction and it was transformed into a media center. No more card catalogues. Less books. More tables. More computers. They stopped having us write in cursive and started having us type out our papers. All the textbooks were updated. It took some getting used to. The new text books were too easy. They looked more like picture books than textbooks.
Then in middle school we had a library, but it too was converted to a media center. Our books, again, originally from the 50's, were also updated. The same happened in highschool. The point is, we have the memory of both the library and the media center. The before and the after. And if we choose to do so, we can compare and contrast them. The younger ones of our generations did not have this memory of the school library because it was already transformed into a media center by the time they got there. They cannot compare and contrast these experiences(depending upon the progressiveness of the community to which they belong).
We were also taught how to write checks in elementary school and told always to put money in the banks because it accrued interest. Upon adulthood we found that the banking laws had been changed, seemingly under our noses. Now if we let our money sit in the bank we accumulate charges. If we let it sit for too long we have no money left. The younger ones of us may not remember when a bank account furnished interest. They may not be able to compare and contrast these things.
Even the older portion of the generation, who has been given the opportunity to compare and contrast these circumstances often chooses not to do so. Why on earth would we want to look at what we've lost? And with a collective distrust for the status quo, how can one convince a Pluto in Scorpio that the status quo of the past was any better than it was today? Afterall, it's still a status quo. Often times we refuse to participate in the way things are going by withdrawing. Unfortunately, withdrawel doesn't change much when one is still completely reliant on their mother culture for sustenance. It merely reduces one to a lowly status within the culture. Withdrawel is likely a common theme for Pluto in Scorpio. Conversely, if the native matures and the Plutonian energy is well harnessed, they can tap into their "hidden knowledge" to set forth remarkable transformations. They have the potential to correct many of the worn out thought patterns perpetuated by humankind(under the radar, if you will) that result in serious misdeeds. Why? Because they are more likely to be consciously aware of what for other generations are subconscious behaviors.
However, as much as we withdraw, we also reveal. We reveal what is wrong. Even if we don't consciously know what is wrong, our behaviors, when imbalanced are intensified by Pluto. This intensification makes a given problem well known to all onlookers. Unfortunately most onlookers look to the native as the problem, rather than the underlying conditions that created the imbalance. We're reactionary. When a Pluto in Scorpio acts out on a monumental scale they are reacting. The more intense the acting out, the greater the stimuli they are reacting too. In many cases, this reaction can be reduced to one simple thing: the revocation of our birthrights and subsequently, our dignity as living souls. These are not small slights. Wars have been waged over less. Pluto in Scorpio will fight tooth and nail for their souls. And their souls are sensitive to the unseen mechanisms behind the things most people do, things that most people don't notice or seem affected by. Therefore, what is perceived as normal by former generations can be perceived as a threat to Pluto in Scorpio. Because Pluto in Scorpio tends to perceive certain social norms as threatening, those who uphold those social norms perceive Pluto in Scorpio as threatening, due to their refusal to participate in general consensus. The upholders of the social norms then try to force the Pluto in Scorpio to assimilate, or to punish Pluto in Scorpio for not doing so, thereby confirming Pluto in Scorpio's perception of a threat. Then, in response to the threat, the Pluto in Scorpio fights. It tries to stick up for itself. Unfortunately, Pluto in Scorpio often gets blamed for all this ruckus, due to the intense manner in which they respond when backed into a corner. Pluto in Scorpio is a generation of renegade warriors and martyrs.
Unfortunately, we expect others to perceive the same threats we do, not realizing that they don't(because although real and tangible, they are largely unseen). The more we try to get them to understand, the more they resist. Eventually force comes into play, from either direction. That force is Pluto and as a result of that force is either a paradigm shift or being gobbled up. Remember Aesop's Fables? Each story had a moral at the end. Pluto does the same.
Late 80s/early 90's were when many of the indigos were born. Older generations write alot of books about the indigos, with all the superpowers we are proported to have. Perhaps we perceive the world differently than our forebearers. Perhaps the knowledge that is hidden to them is common place to us. Perhaps this Pluto in Scorpio and Neptune in Capricorn has something to do with it.
I had to learn about Neptune in Capricorn because it is present in my chart. There wasn't much information about it in the books I had, and thus I took to good-old-fashioned observation in order to gain an assessment of the energies at hand, how they could manifest, and furthermore, how they could be used, as they were, afterall, an integral part of my own life.
I never much bought into the whole, "It's generational, everybody has it" mindset. Some people resonate more to the outer planets. When this is the case the outer planets will have a stronger influence over the life of the native.
I have not devoted any study or observation to Neptune conjunct Uranus in Capricorn and thus have little to say. I would much rather hear the words of others regarding this topic.
The key to success for the Pluto in Scorpio Generation is to pull off positive Taurus. What does that mean to you?
Sedna dwells in Taurus. Sedna presides over the ages. The Pluto-Sedna opposition of the late 80's was important. I have yet to understand just what it means.
Other than that, I don't logically follow you. Something to do with mastering the signs opposite to balance the energy of the planets placed in that sign? Please explain!
The shadow aside of the Pluto in Scorpio generation is pure evil. The Pluto in Aquarius Generation's opinion of you-all will be very important.
Let's define evil as an absolute absence of goodness at the time of birth.
Yes, human beings behave and think in all kinds of negative ways, but pure evil is something else. When set beside pure evil, negativity at it's most intense is just a misguided child. Evil is something different.
The word shouldn't be thrown around lightly. I've seen innocents stigmatized for their supposed "evilness". The social castigation forever left a mark on their souls. It were as though a witch hunt was taking place and the accusers, moreso than the "witches" were the ones truly spreading "evil" in the name of goodness. But even in this case, the accusers were simply misguided. Any evil that was present was acting through them and not of them.
Pluto in Scorpio is facsinating. It gives me an ability to focus on things most people aren't aware of. I'm not exactly sure how it effects the others, but it grants me an investigative ability, observational powers, and a certain gravitation towards mystical literature from the late 1800s through the early 1900s. Although Pluto in Scorpio is known for associations with the occult, social definition of occult does not match the literal definition. In a social sense, the word "occult" conjurs images of oiji boards, spells, and divinations. However, "occult" simply means "knowledge of the hidden". Knowledge of the hidden is dear to me. I'm not so interested in what everybody else knows, nor am I all that interested in jumping on any band wagons. I look to the underlying cause of things. Always have. In this quest to understand the underlying causes of this that and the other, I turn to history, psychology, science, mysticism, and review any and all explainations that are applicable. Then I test the information, as well as my conclusions. This is through the lense of the third house and conjunct Mercury. Manifestations may be different for those with a different house placement.
Pluto in scorpio kind of reminds me of a documentary I recently saw about neuroscience. They stated something like, the brain of an addict learns too well. Something to do with the reward response. It makes the associations too quickly and in certain social circumstances addiction results. That's kind of what Pluto in Scorpio reminds me of. Great learner, but learns too well. Simply, we are very likely take what we learn to a deeper level and when taken on such deep levels, there is no light heartedness about the things we do and say, especially when "knowledge of the hidden" shows us the deeper implications of half-hearted comments passed off in a jocoserious tone. Thus, lightheartedness puzzles the more plutonian of us. We don't deal well with the conflicting sets of instruction(or expectations) so ubiquitous in our culture today. Until more mature and able to handle the plutonian energies, these conflicting expectations may cause us to excell in one of two conflicting expectations to our own detriment, because we are not following the status quo by doing so. If the social conditions are poor, calamity can result from the learning. Thus, Pluto in Scorpio can serve as a canary in the coal mine to expose what is wrong with a culture, what forms of nourishment and integrity it is lacking in. To a certain extent, we take things and intensify them.
Another phenomena I notice is that with Pluto in Scorpio, at least for me, I take heed to the temporal nature of many things. Most importantly, I notice within myself a lack of the inherent fear many of my elders deal with Pluto. The lack of fear is based on the inherent knowledge that each plutonian lesson is designed to transform an entity into the next phase of existence. It is more than likely that whatever has been gained from the experience was worth the troubles. Think baptism by fire. Think learning the hard way. Think "whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger". Think of the struggle required for success. Think of the alcoholic who has not the power to quit until Pluto comes along and bottoms him out, then and only then, is he ready to change his ways and live a life of sobriety. Think Shiva, the hindu god of death, and how one may be able to pray to him to kill the worn out parts of oneself that serve as obstacles to enlightenment. This is the power of Pluto and although it causes many causualties, those of us who can get through it come out with something we couldn't have otherwise. Perhaps we with Pluto in scorpio are more likely to accept this than other generations. We can use the struggles we go through to shift our personal paradigms and we can do this deliberately if need be.
However, I'm not so sure of the applicability of what I say to the rest of my generation. I do not consort with them much.
My generation lives in a convenient fantasy world...but why not? The humanity we were born into doesn't seem to want us. Most of us were raised with our parents too busy with jobs or television to tend to nuturing our emotional needs. Most of us were fed carcinogenic materials before even weaning from the breast and then told we had to look like a pop star to have any sense of worth as a human being(as though that would be realistic for the young men with hips and the young women with poorly proportioned bodies due to a diet high in hormones and a sedentary lifestyle). Now we find ourselves in an economy that expects us to be happy to have a job, even if it's flipping burgers for minimum wage after getting a college degree. Well thank you for the scraps from the table. Many of us see these things and reject them.
One of the most pivotal things that happened for my generation was when Bush ran against Kerry. That moment in time told each and every one of us that our votes were meaningless. It confirmed the corruption of the government. It confirmed to many of us that there was no point in getting involved in the system, or having any faith in it. It told us that our country cared not for its people. It were as though a dark cloud blanketed our nation on that day. Is the ratio of Pluto in Scorpio non-voters to voters higher than generations past? I'd expect it would be. Every election since Bush our votes have been tampered with. Many of us were at or around voting age for this Bush/Kerry conundrum. Those of us born later on may perceive tampering with votes as a normal occurence of the times, but for those of us who were approximately voting age during the second Bush election, we saw a shift take place. Many of Pluto in Scorpios do not trust the government.
This generation came at the time of many shifts. The younger part of this generation may not remember the energies of the old, but the older part is able to tap into these energies and compare the world they were born into with the world as it is now. At least I am. It shifted around with those born around 89. Many of the dragons born in 88 have exceptional abilities. Those born in the 90's are likely to perceive the state of things as they are now as normal. This is because of the availability of current technologies in their lives. The speed at which technology advances makes the difference of a few short years from the latter half of the 80s to the early 90's monumental.
When I was in school all the schools were renovating their libraries into "media centers". So in elementary school we had a library. We used card catalogues to look up books. We also had textbooks from the fifties. Our maps still had the USSR on them. They had to tell us that the USSR was really Russia and that the maps had changed. I bring this up to mention that a portion of my education was from the same textbooks that children were learning from in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. The authors of the text books in the 50s were likely to have knowledge dating back to the early 1900s and these authors were in turn, likely to be influenced by their elders, people who had seen the 1800s first hand. Thus, the collective consciousness embodied in these books could easily be traced back to the 1800's.
Then the library closed for construction and it was transformed into a media center. No more card catalogues. Less books. More tables. More computers. They stopped having us write in cursive and started having us type out our papers. All the textbooks were updated. It took some getting used to. The new text books were too easy. They looked more like picture books than textbooks.
Then in middle school we had a library, but it too was converted to a media center. Our books, again, originally from the 50's, were also updated. The same happened in highschool. The point is, we have the memory of both the library and the media center. The before and the after. And if we choose to do so, we can compare and contrast them. The younger ones of our generations did not have this memory of the school library because it was already transformed into a media center by the time they got there. They cannot compare and contrast these experiences(depending upon the progressiveness of the community to which they belong).
We were also taught how to write checks in elementary school and told always to put money in the banks because it accrued interest. Upon adulthood we found that the banking laws had been changed, seemingly under our noses. Now if we let our money sit in the bank we accumulate charges. If we let it sit for too long we have no money left. The younger ones of us may not remember when a bank account furnished interest. They may not be able to compare and contrast these things.
Even the older portion of the generation, who has been given the opportunity to compare and contrast these circumstances often chooses not to do so. Why on earth would we want to look at what we've lost? And with a collective distrust for the status quo, how can one convince a Pluto in Scorpio that the status quo of the past was any better than it was today? Afterall, it's still a status quo. Often times we refuse to participate in the way things are going by withdrawing. Unfortunately, withdrawel doesn't change much when one is still completely reliant on their mother culture for sustenance. It merely reduces one to a lowly status within the culture. Withdrawel is likely a common theme for Pluto in Scorpio. Conversely, if the native matures and the Plutonian energy is well harnessed, they can tap into their "hidden knowledge" to set forth remarkable transformations. They have the potential to correct many of the worn out thought patterns perpetuated by humankind(under the radar, if you will) that result in serious misdeeds. Why? Because they are more likely to be consciously aware of what for other generations are subconscious behaviors.
However, as much as we withdraw, we also reveal. We reveal what is wrong. Even if we don't consciously know what is wrong, our behaviors, when imbalanced are intensified by Pluto. This intensification makes a given problem well known to all onlookers. Unfortunately most onlookers look to the native as the problem, rather than the underlying conditions that created the imbalance. We're reactionary. When a Pluto in Scorpio acts out on a monumental scale they are reacting. The more intense the acting out, the greater the stimuli they are reacting too. In many cases, this reaction can be reduced to one simple thing: the revocation of our birthrights and subsequently, our dignity as living souls. These are not small slights. Wars have been waged over less. Pluto in Scorpio will fight tooth and nail for their souls. And their souls are sensitive to the unseen mechanisms behind the things most people do, things that most people don't notice or seem affected by. Therefore, what is perceived as normal by former generations can be perceived as a threat to Pluto in Scorpio. Because Pluto in Scorpio tends to perceive certain social norms as threatening, those who uphold those social norms perceive Pluto in Scorpio as threatening, due to their refusal to participate in general consensus. The upholders of the social norms then try to force the Pluto in Scorpio to assimilate, or to punish Pluto in Scorpio for not doing so, thereby confirming Pluto in Scorpio's perception of a threat. Then, in response to the threat, the Pluto in Scorpio fights. It tries to stick up for itself. Unfortunately, Pluto in Scorpio often gets blamed for all this ruckus, due to the intense manner in which they respond when backed into a corner. Pluto in Scorpio is a generation of renegade warriors and martyrs.
Unfortunately, we expect others to perceive the same threats we do, not realizing that they don't(because although real and tangible, they are largely unseen). The more we try to get them to understand, the more they resist. Eventually force comes into play, from either direction. That force is Pluto and as a result of that force is either a paradigm shift or being gobbled up. Remember Aesop's Fables? Each story had a moral at the end. Pluto does the same.
Late 80s/early 90's were when many of the indigos were born. Older generations write alot of books about the indigos, with all the superpowers we are proported to have. Perhaps we perceive the world differently than our forebearers. Perhaps the knowledge that is hidden to them is common place to us. Perhaps this Pluto in Scorpio and Neptune in Capricorn has something to do with it.
Last edited: