Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

david starling

Well-known member
Thats a good question - Ive been thinking about that card for the past years.
In the Tree, it connects the sphere of Mercury (Hod, Splendour) to the Sun center of Tipharet. Suggesting thus that Tipharet ("Beauty") is, from the rational perspective, beyond good and evil. The card that connects the opposite pole, Netzach (Venus) to Tipharet is Arcanum XIII, Death. This means that whichever basic human position we use to approach the "Christ-center" as Tipharet is also referred to, it'll bring a cataclysmic change in our standards of life. We have to transcend boundaries, and, per XV, own up to our bondage, our humanity, and per XIII, own up to our mortality, our potential arbitrariness. To transcend the arbitrariness is to attain to Soul, to leave behind petty personal interests and live for ones legacy.

From Tipharet upward to Binah, we have Trump VI, the Lovers, which evidently is XV on a higher arc.

I could argue that Obama (came to power as Pluto entered Cap) and Trump together kind of amount to Trump XV. Note, by the way, the "Trump: Tower" is Arcanum XVI, '16...

Great movements of power always are accompanied by sublime and terrifying symbolism.

Yeah, I was also impressed by Trump Tower relative to the 16th Card. In linear fashion, the 17th Card comes next, so maybe Trump's rise to power (and his fall, according to the R/W imagery) is a necessary prelude to the advent of the Tropical Age of Aquarius. So, is that Jupiter's thunderbolt striking the tower? :biggrin: I do have Jupiter as the Planet supportive of Aquarius.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Yes.
Its a problem for me since my family was white and Jewish, so they got killed and still are getting oppressed in Amsterdam by now, as it happens, non-whites (Jews can't openly exist in northern Europe since the late 90's when the beatings began) - so I find it literally dizzying in stupidity, this racism addressed to white people which is masked as some kind of moral superiority. It is even worse than the blatant cruel antisemitism I get thrown at me since the internet exists, as that at leas doesn't make claims to morality. Or it didn't, back in the early 0's. Now actually it does, using the Jew as the scapegoat again. Its excruciating, nauseating, paralyzing, as all these cowards that disgrace my fathers terminated family hide behind the internet. Clintons blatant disqualifying of "white males" guarantees white male supremacy. Its only that these bastards are so hideously moronic that I don't lean toward it myself - I feel highly unsafe, and have been ostracized by nearly everyone in my native country, who all still believe in Bill Clintons eternal goodness - all this on racial and gender based models. So for me the end of the world has come and passed, hell froze over when Trump won. I still feel the relief.

Like many people who feel identified with their skin color because they been addressed on it since infancy, I am highly sensitive to racism. "dear white people" is Americas Mein Kampf, as far as Im concerned. It represents the exact same spirit; one race is to blame for another races miseries.

The saddest part is that it is not black people driving those shows and these narratives; let alone native Americans, who as far as I can figure should generally be elevated into the highest offices, I don't know why it doesn't occur to the general spirit of the US to symbolically and emotionally rectify what can still be rectified. Its really bizarre. If there is one group that should be positively discriminated it is the original inhabitants. Really freaky that it doesn't occur. It is of course natural that it would be a struggle against vested interests, but not that there is no such struggle.

It can not come from these people, as they have clearly been made to see what happens if they try to openly have self-respect.

That is the only thing that can propel the US into the future; an intellectually solid Native American candidacy. 0% chance of real recovery without that.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I had no idea anti-Judaism (which is really what it is) was still so prevalent in Europe. Where did this happen to your family, if you don't mind saying?
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Some of these tribes, I think that loosely knit society of roamers and warriors in general, was to my mind surely the healthiest species of humanity that ever lived. Only the ancient Greeks and some of these other tribes were in the regions of that health; the Germans of the Middle Ages are perhaps the least healthy of all humans Ive studied - the society that was least benefitted by Christianity, true "wild men"; their taming was the beginning of a very dangerous project nature is now reaping the fruits of, after having nearly perished of her own ruthlessness. What doesn't kill her makes her stronger, I suppose. Not all of us, it doesn't - life in a dungeon has rarely emboldened someone. Nelson Mandela, but that is speaking of exceptions to many rules. Ive seen these German inventions in a really scary castle when I was living in Austria, the most magical place - no torture devices, it was rather the desperate intricacies of their frivolities that scared me. They were crafty like Dwarves, trying desperately to be Elves.

Yeah, Nietzsche forced me, with the help of the only Nietzsche students I could find online that had some fire to them, to engage the most unpleasant aspects of psychology - genealogy. I had to confront the fact of my Jewish heritage on the harshest terms - - I was bound to own up to the very reason that my ancestors have been persecuted - and that has led, dangerously for my personality, also to the owning up also of the reason they managed to survive; their capacity to turn malice inflicted on them into an asset against their despotic oppressors. Christianity itself could be explained in these terms, if we want to be cynical and innocent at once; as a contemptible, otherworldly ghostly offshoot of a misguided claim to Judaeic priesthood working to beat down the Romans who violated the temple. I don't think any Jew intended for this, because the Orthodox (actual Jews, living by the Talmud, the ever evolving interpretation of the Torah, as I understand from Chaim Potok, Brooklynese Chasidim do it through Kabbalistic alchemy, but probably others through natural adaption to the threats and hopes of the times) loathe the idea of such a emotional and sado-erotic tomfoolery substituting for the emanation of Atziluth - it is too passive, too... fleshy... Jews separate dairy and meat, let alone that they would hang a naked crucified man in their house, and their persecution did continue under Christian times - but nonetheless all the warlike tribes tamed themselves, began to relate positively to Jerusalem, and allowed Jews to rise in their ranks. Even to attain PM ship in Britain, which no doubt contributed to the creation of the state of Israel. I try to see all this aside from good and evil (not "beyond" them, that is not at all what "Jehnseits" means); to see what old and tested global powers want to happen, rather than what I want to happen. An arc of will some 3000 years which is about to be resolved. The definitive victory, security of that will qua arc, narrative, was the creation of the state of Israel, which is so magical that people retroactively attribute the nazi-hate for Jews to the Jews themselves - the demon of absurdity has thereby reached cosmic powers - what the Jews did do was turn yet again another malice inflicted upon them to the advantage of the surviving ones. Revenge, again. Mr. Israel keeps playing the best game of chess. And its closing on a checkmate - they are prying at the defences of the final piece; King Solomons lair.

Better freshen up, drink some lemon water. Iced Tea on the Porch if you have them. This one ancient Egypto-Hebreiac codex of willpower is not the only one coming to a resolution.

At least, from where Im standing, I can see a hot sun rising next summer.

We are all Arjuna, we are standing on Kurukshetra. Krishna speaks to us - fight or choose non-existence. You fight for your side. He does not clarify which side that is - this is not the complicated part. The complicated part is to muster the simplicity of will to go in total berserker mode for ones values. The simpler your morality is, the easier this mode is to attain. For a modern western astrologer this means that it is extremely difficult. But once attained, the mightiest of all armies.

Fixed Stars - you don't want these things as your enemies. We all have them working as unspeakable adversaries, Satans and immense White Magicians but these things are powerful beyond anything else. True fate-anchors, people ruled by these things don't normally have a lot of self-understanding, as they simply don't require it. An entity can be rocketed through life on a conjunction of Pluto and Jupiter in Regulus in some lofty house, and attain godly status for al the world without being a character of any particular merit. They just forge the right conditions at the right times.

The Galactic Center - a friend of mine has Lilith, Dark Moon on it. He is one of those guys that can read a persons chart and soul in both ways. His eyes are truly hawk like and flare up when he is spiritually incensed. On some level, Black Moon on the Galactic Center is the pure Isis, before whom even felines lower their eyes. Not I, though, I stared him down out of sheer curiosity to see the gaze change. I don't know with what force. Venus in Pisces, probably. The love for all things as they stand in their power, and to see the limit of that power so as to see the whole flower.

Yeah, Ive done a study on this. All significant Russians have the last decant of Pisces occupied. With the exception, fittingly, of the cosmopolitan Tolstoy who is an ideologue of experience, not an innocent cynic, like Dostoyevski, Putin, Rasputin, Stalin, Lenin, whomever of these violent and unfathomably clever men. There is the power for evil in late Pisces. My Venus there, in the 12th house, is privy to quite a bit of dark magic - but it doesn't affect her, other than as a melancholic environment of human tears, a black sea of tears under a lily.

The salt of the earth is shed by dried tears of joy and sorrow before they were split, or after they came together; the Equinox.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
I had no idea anti-Judaism (which is really what it is) was still so prevalent in Europe. Where did this happen to your family, if you don't mind saying?

They were deported, like all Jews there, from Amsterdam and other dutch cities and put in sobibor, Auschwitz, and all died except for my grandfather, who escaped three times (!!!!!! :bandit::bandit:) and then became leading intellectual of the civil right nd hippy movements in post war Holland with his thesis for his doctorate "the praise of unadaptedness".

My dad, born in 1943 the day the war turn at Stalingrad (you can imagine the power of his chart if you don't hold back) was hidden with a truly extremely nice couple from the town of Haarlem. One of my nicest memories of childhood is I was sitting at this small table designated for me as the old ones sat on the big table, and this man and his wife came in, and he took off his hat, and sat down across from me at my small table. I recently saw a picture of my dad as a small boy in the garden, as the war came to its end some hundred miles away, with the happiest and most endearing grin of mischief -
the second wife of my returning grandfather was not inclined to let him keep that smile. She is a hard woman, who only likes me, because I see evil coming from a distance. Hawk-Eyes. Also Sagittarius, but rather Antares than the Galactic Center. War, war, war, war, war, because peace. I made a portrait of her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h37IUyfqDRQ

As she predicted I the 90s as she was painting my portrait and we had a lot of time to talk, there now is a religious war everywhere in Northern Europe, and all Jews, as well as gays and lesbians, that openly carry their faith/heritage/nature in some form of congregation (like hand holding with gays) or symbol, (like head covering, or any traditional clothing or hair style for Jews) have been beaten in the streets util it all became normalized to acceptable standards of a Sharia prospecting project. Iv intimate muslim friends, and all of them agree without question that the goal is to have Sharia rule the entire Earth, as of course gods will is good, and what opposes or contradicts it, is not. It is one of these faiths where to take things less than literally is to be immediately ostracized, as there isn't any room for interpretation of these particular verses. Its a truly severe religion. It fits entirely with race and sex politics, as it is also expert in maneuvering itself in the victim position as it beheads people. Theo Van Gogh, the family of Vincent Van Gogh, had his throat slit by a radical Muslim in the street where I did my groceries, about ten years after my grandmother predicted that people were underestimating the faith of these muslims. Muslims were applauding nation wide, and there was no way to reprimand them, as very few muslims manage to attain a feeling of respect for the earthly authorities of a nation that isn't theocratic, let alone for the expression of criticism.

Germany is the only nation in control of this stuff, because it directly enforces German morality on immigrants; obedience. This theocratic streak is kind of helpful in their case. But they do far more active selecting, drawing most from the strongest population, such as the Turks and Syrians, ancient, highly cultivated warrior types - these, they integrate warmly and make into New Germans, where in other nations, all large cities have a ring of slums populated by Arabs from North Africa, who are neither desired by nor desiring of partaking in the pompously impotent modern society. I really like the ways of Arabs, and it is a struggle to not join them in contempt for my current nation - I need to actively remind me - and them - of the glories of the battle for independence of the spirit that Willen van Oranje forged, ending our 80 year liberation war.

Some distant relatives of my dad now live in Israel. One family came back to Holland and set up a real estate business. They're ******s, liberal Jews, taking the pride without the burden, turning it to arrogance, insulting my non Jewish mother in my fathers presence. I can't see how that is worth of respect Either you sacrifice your free will to YHWH and live in the joy of that sacrifice, or you drop the claim to your "Chosen-ness". They are arrogant enough that they can feel chosen by God without choosing Him back. That is not how it works, in my opinion.

In some weird obverse form of liberality, in Israel, real service to YHWH seems to me to include military service, but more and more Jews claim Orthodoxy so as to escape military service. That might become the end of the nation. Irony might win over the strong heart.
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
Blacksun? (gotta love the question mark!), Have you read a book called "Morning of the Magicians"? It freaked me out when I read it in the late 60's, partly because I had the flu and a high fever, and because it's about some heavy occult stuff, including what some of the Nazis were into. If you have, just wondering what you think about it.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
I havent read that particular work but it was precisely this what shocked me initially, engaging these Nazi Nietzscheans - they were all the best and most educated occultists Id ever talked to. I then quickly saw how all of nazi symbolism is deeply occult. What they did to the Runes (Otto von List) is truly hubristic. They simply inverted some runes - so the runes brought them down. Runes, revealed to Odin when his eye sank into Mimirs well, are like the precursors to consciousness. If you invert a lofty rune and then use it as your symbol, you will be "turned to the ground" as the Greeks said it.

In any case, some of the best online occultists are still nazis. Its been a real problem for my emotions.
 

sadge

Well-known member
I am so loving this thread. Finally. Freedom of thought. Thank you.

I'm also enjoying all of these ideas that are exploding in this thread right now. Magic happens when you get the right people together. It's energy. I can't comment right now -- gotta run -- but please keep it coming, all of you. This stuff is too good. No internal editors allowed. Just let it fly.

(At some point, lets circle back to Jupiter too. There's will be a lot to explore when it goes into Scorpio.)
 

sadge

Well-known member
I don't know why it doesn't occur to the general spirit of the US to symbolically and emotionally rectify what can still be rectified..

It's because we don't have our own defining culture outside of capitalism. The US is a very young country compared to other nations that hold a long history of stories that shaped its cultural identity.

Everyone needs a sense of identity, even nations, to rectify anything. The fact that our identity is so deeply rooted in an economic theory creates a culture that can be shallow and weak (but strong in other ways too).

Some people say our culture is "freedom," but we all know the B.S. that rests under that argument.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
I am so loving this thread. Finally. Freedom of thought. Thank you.

I'm also enjoying all of these ideas that are exploding in this thread right now. Magic happens when you get the right people together. It's energy. I can't comment right now -- gotta run -- but please keep it coming, all of you. This stuff is too good. No internal editors allowed. Just let it fly.

(At some point, lets circle back to Jupiter too. There's will be a lot to explore when it goes into Scorpio.)

No thank You - it is redeeming to know these thoughts are being appreciated. Naturally, very few people can handle them, resulting in excommunication. Its very scary to see how people avoid thinking about things.

Jupiter into Scorpio, I can't even express in words what Im feeling. Or rather, all Id say in words right now would do injustice. Of course Scorpio is that unspeakable sign.

Not to discourage anyone from speaking - just saying I can feel a lot of power accumulating, preparing to unleash itself into the deep and hidden channels Scorpio has access to.

It's because we don't have our own defining culture outside of capitalism. The US is a very young country compared to other nations that hold a long history of stories that shaped its cultural identity.

Everyone needs a sense of identity, even nations, to rectify anything. The fact that our identity is so deeply rooted in an economic theory creates a culture that can be shallow and weak (but strong in other ways too).

Some people say our culture is "freedom," but we all know the B.S. that rests under that argument.

I think its also the Christian mindset of the settlers that introduced a natural contempt for the "savages" and their beliefs and values - in as far as capitalism deals with trade (which unfortunately is not what it specializes in) it is compatible with most cultures, but indeed it does not provide its own value-set.

In any case, this is an opportunity for the US to acquire a solid cultural ground. It would be a small step but a giant leap.

Im not seeing this within 10 years, but If Im not being it in ten years, Ill be beginning to worry.

Trump has completely blasted open the electoral code. Now, everyone can run.

I have to mention, too - the US does produce the greatest cultural value of this age to my mind - shows like The Shield, The Wire, Deadwood, The Sopranos, and many others represent a very serious cultural advancement over the romanticism of Hollywood, which itself has been impressive and powerful enough -

America is so important because it is the father of our times. The world can't function without its culture - and despite its disregarding of the possibility of elevating a native of the land to the highest office, it still carries forth a lot of that native spirit in its unbridled boldness and love of the wild.

America is wild. Compared to Europe, it is paradise.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Mercury, Venus and Mars are in Virgo. I have no Virgoan placements except for the Descendant, which I see as being about one's personal attitude concerning traditions (Astrology included). That's why [IMO] I look for regular patterns and analyze traditions instead of just accepting them as they're usually presented. Virgo, like Gemini, isn't tied to only one thought structure, so it can play with the possibilities.

In my natal chart, Jupiter, Mars, Lilith and Saturn form a triple planet stellium plus Lilith in Virgo. It interferes with my Sun/Moon in Aquarius, the stellium opposite Mercury (Pisces), both the stellium and Mercury square Neptune (Sagittarius), and the conjunction square Uranus (Scorpio). Virgo like Gemini are ruled by Mercury - the planet of communication, speech and languages.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Our ideas are the first seeds we must gather if we will ever get to the harvest. Jupiter in Scorpio will be a badass transit, for badass people, looking to bust some badass moves. Jupiter will provide an assist by parting the red sea so that the depths of scorpio can be easily accessed to anyone who wants to find it. To anyone who is capable of finding it. Without constraint, we will find, hold, intoxicate, regenerate, transform, and unleash….only to do it again…. and again…. until finally the greater benefic says “enough!” --- collapsing across the finish line into Sagittarius. Eventually, Jupiter will want to breathe and fly above the atmosphere, away from Hades and the brink of death, fly with its new emboldened wings, away from the burnt crust ashes of underworld where new beginnings were found. It’s best to take advantage of Jupiter in Scorpio because it won’t last long --- it’s barreling home to its promised land in Sagittarius, where freedom rings, Chiron cries, and Man has fire to warm the night.

Thats properly impressive, sadge.
So much so that I failed in my attempts to respond directly.
Jupiter does that; overwhelm. Unmistakably you are capable of Jupiter-priesthood, and I recommend that you cultivate that power.

If I remember correctly, the natal chart of the United States has Scorpio taking up the 11H and half of the 12H….this is the range of direct influence we will see in the nation. Uranus in Taurus will be in the 5H. It looks like mass transformation is inevitable… without a doubt to be shaped by our fierce sovereign agenda for independent stability against a world stage that trying desperately to keep itself from falling apart. Its possible.

Thats a lofty arrangement. The 5th and 12th work well together. It seems we are going to be able to create our way out of the mud. I won't say swamp, as the people calling for drainage of the swamp aren't to be taken as heroes or examples - we havent really seen the sort of class yet that can be, as a group, heroic. This class needs to he instated under the auspices of Jupiter; Ive been considering for at least 20 years - why do wealthy artists not run for offices? After Trumps victory, they started to realize they could, and probably should.

Its not so much that we just need to get right people it he offices though, its more that we need to allow our society to redefine what is right, and come up with an actual positive value that invigorates people rather than that it makes them sad and helpless, which is what all the victim-politics tend to do, to such weird extremities.

"Oh no, my child has a sex-organ, how horribly bigoted of nature. Let me be merciful, take my kid to the clinic and have its penis cut off before it can decide for itself, because I need to ensure that it has the freedom to not be the gender it was born as, and make sure it uses that freedom before it knows what sex is."

Thats actually what happens to kids now. Its because freedom has been defined as a negative; to be free from (fill in anything: logic, biology, probably gravity is to be sued and taxed next) - rather than as a positive; Free to.

(Nietzsche makes this distinction as the distinction between slave- and master-morality.)

(Will this be a Jupiter return for both of you, Black and David?)

It'll be my opposition year. I have him in I at 21 Taurus conjunct mean Lilith (true at 16), trine Mars in X in 22 Capricorn.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Gender "reassignment" for children, even if it's only puberty-blocking hormone treatments, is CHILD ABUSE, and it's a big money-maker for the Pharmaceutical Industry. :devil:
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Gender "reassignment" for children, even if it's only puberty-blocking hormone treatments, is CHILD ABUSE, and it's a big money-maker for the Pharmaceutical Industry. :devil:

At the very least. It prevents the child from ever having its own children. Its probably the worst soul-torture ever invented.

In the other case, it will be a "man" with a womb, to whom a child is born - that woud also be a horror of unimaginable depth, to be that child.

It can only be the result of a deep loathing of our culture with respect to itself - a deep wish to sabotage its processes of procreation. I can tell you from in the family that it is devastating enough for a parent to have to see the child do this voluntarily - but for the parent to entice a child into it, that is truly evil beyond what I could ever have imagined.

The danger of this situation is also that, to the parts of humanity less inclined to mutilation in the name of freedom human dignity, it is becoming apparent that no laws and no science are perhaps even preferable to too much science and too many laws.

Then you have the late stage abortions, the products of which are used as protein in our food. Trump just signed something against that, of course making him a bigot in the eyes of the murderously insane.

Anyway. Its all so much far worse than too much - Libya now being one large sex-slavemarket... Liberal politics are really good competition for Dante.

No joy to be derived from talking about any of this. Such topics are breaking up millions of families as we speak. The evilest part of evil is that to try to fight it causes you to lose out in the world.

Thence: better to exalt the Greater Benefic and make more palpable the value of life, and of nature, the majesty of the cosmos as it is given to each of us -

the very worst of fools are the ones who wonder how we will survive when we have ruined the Earth. When we ruin the Earth, there is nothing that could give us the right to live. Anyone looking for an escape from a burning earth deserves the wrath of all the gods who worked on our biosphere, not to mention all its animals, elements, and natural disasters. May the wrath of all the universe concentrate on these treacherous ingrates.

Be true to the Earth.
And I will try to refrain from getting sucked into these topics too much. Too much pain, too much as been lost to too many in the name of that "progress".

So - strangely, Jupiter would ow work as a conservative force. Because abundance is something we need to get back to. We need to restrain our species self-mutilation and enslavement, so as to be aware of some values again.

As it happens, this value ontology or self valuing logic that I forged from Nietzsche and physics, came to be when Jupiter was in Taurus. Values - Thats what is real, that is what matters. All matter matters to itself - that is why it has nuclear bonds, that, when split up, cause the primal rage that on another level also a human robbed of his loved one exposed into - why people sacrifice themselves in vengeance - to do justice to the bond even if it was shed - human and animal response to values and changes in the value-sphere are as predictable as mathematics - but this also as challenging to work out, explicate into language theory, models. And it is not clear if such a thing would be desirable.
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
Gender "reassignment" for children, even if it's only puberty-blocking hormone treatments, is CHILD ABUSE, and it's a big money-maker for the Pharmaceutical Industry. :devil:

[Adding] It's Legalized child abuse. Doctors sworn to "first, do no harm" who participate in this, should be deeply ashamed of themselves.
 

sadge

Well-known member
I won't say swamp, as the people calling for drainage of the swamp aren't to be taken as heroes or examples - we havent really seen the sort of class yet that can be, as a group, heroic. This class needs to he instated under the auspices of Jupiter; Ive been considering for at least 20 years - why do wealthy artists not run for offices? After Trumps victory, they started to realize they could, and probably should.
.


Why don't wealthy artists run for office? Because the drive for producing art is completely different from the kind of drive that takes one into politics. Both can carry Neptunian influences, but each stems from a different kind of purpose. Artists want to be free. You have to be a social hooker to be a politician.
 

sadge

Well-known member
"Oh no, my child has a sex-organ, how horribly bigoted of nature. Let me be merciful, take my kid to the clinic and have its penis cut off before it can decide for itself, because I need to ensure that it has the freedom to not be the gender it was born as, and make sure it uses that freedom before it knows what sex is."

Thats actually what happens to kids now. Its because freedom has been defined as a negative; to be free from (fill in anything: logic, biology, probably gravity is to be sued and taxed next) - rather than as a positive; Free to.

.


^^^ This is an example of how I sometimes wonder if all of our technological advancements really have made us more "free," or whether it's done more harm by reinforcing barriers between people and the natural world around them. Probably a mix of both.
 

sadge

Well-known member
Gender "reassignment" for children, even if it's only puberty-blocking hormone treatments, is CHILD ABUSE, and it's a big money-maker for the Pharmaceutical Industry. :devil:

It does seem that children would be too young to have enough judgment to make such a life-altering decision. I mean, you can't even drive until you're 16 or buy booze until you're 21 in the U.S.

Do you know if it's required coverage for insurance in CA?
 

david starling

Well-known member
It does seem that children would be too young to have enough judgment to make such a life-altering decision. I mean, you can't even drive until you're 16 or buy booze until you're 21 in the U.S.

Do you know if it's required coverage for insurance in CA?

Until you're 18, you're on your parents insurance, and you can stay on that. But insurance is a requirement for every vehicle. I bought a Triumph convertible in my name when I was 19, but the insurance was so high for a teen, that I had to get the title transferred to my parents. Raised their rates considerably, but nothing compared to what I would have been paying.
 
Top