Stephen Arroyo

Ok, I've been searching for Stephen Arroyo on this forum but didn't found much.
I've finished reading his "Astrology, Psychology and the Four Elements" and I'm openmouthed. I really like his style.
Now I began to read his "Astrology, Karma and Transformation".
What are your opinions on his writings?


With Love,
Ile
 

tikana

Well-known member
I like him i have his 2 books.
My problem is he gets too psychological on astrology he does hold psych degree so that could explain his style of explanations.
 
I like him i have his 2 books.
My problem is he gets too psychological on astrology he does hold psych degree so that could explain his style of explanations.

Hi Tikana,
Yes he is Psychologically and Spiritually oriented. I know many Occultists that also appreciate his works. He is different than "established" Astrology but especially for that I like his writings. I'm a little bit occult (hermetic) oriented so this explains why I'm "fond" on it.


Best,
Ile
 
Here's one quote from his book:
"We are here to learn lessons and our birth chart tells us what our lessons are, what type of energy we possess in the first place, and how, by facing up to the challenges presented to us in life, spiritual growth will ensue. The birth chart is a 'tool' to guide us through our life. By understanding our basic make up, we can learn to make the most out of our positive points and try to improve on our weaker ones."

~~Stephen Arroyo, from his book “Astrology, Karma and Transformation”
 

tikana

Well-known member
Hey

yeah i have come across this phrase before. I do disagree with him on another issue i forgot to mention. I am glad you touched it.
"The birth chart is a 'tool' to guide us through our life. "

It is THAT but i am pretty sure that without understanding your birthchart you do not know yourself. Stephen rejects fatalism where as I am a fatalist.

Tik
 
Hey

yeah i have come across this phrase before. I do disagree with him on another issue i forgot to mention. I am glad you touched it.
"The birth chart is a 'tool' to guide us through our life. "

It is THAT but i am pretty sure that without understanding your birthchart you do not know yourself. Stephen rejects fatalism where as I am a fatalist.

Tik

Hi Tikana,
I haven't met fatalist in my life. Interesting..What do you think, who or what create our destiny and how is that related to our birth chart? In what believe fatalists?

Ile
 
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Veronica

Well-known member
I love Steven Arroyo I find his books accurate and soo easy to read. I think his best book is Relation Ships and Life Cycles it explores transits, synastry, etc great book , Astrology Karma and Transformation is very good.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
He writes very lucidly. He was influenced a lot by Dane Rudhyar, so is certain in the 'modern' rather than in the 'traditional' camp and overall, it is probably fair enough to see life experiences as reflected in transits as a way of getting more insight into various life issues, taking them further, and so on.

He is sort of middle-of-the-road, rejecting some of the more extreme contentions of the theosophists, esotericists, etc - and for that matter, possibly of Rudhyar. But he can still be a little dogmatic in places because this background I believe.

Arroyo liked to keep things simple, rather than mess around with midpoints and the like, thugh he does have a point where he asks how much time theastrologer is gong to invest in certain, more complex methods of delineating a chart anyway.
 
He is sort of middle-of-the-road, rejecting some of the more extreme contentions of the theosophists, esotericists, etc - and for that matter, possibly of Rudhyar. But he can still be a little dogmatic in places because this background I believe.

Hi Nexus,
In which way you think that Arroyo is dogmatic? Can you give us example or explain more accurately?

Best,
Ile
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I do like his "Astrology...4 Elements" book, and his over-all open attitude about things astrological. However, at least along the elements line, his book should be followed up by (what I consider to be) a deeper study, that is, Greenbaums "Temperament" book.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
Hi Nexus,
In which way you think that Arroyo is dogmatic? Can you give us example or explain more accurately?

'Dogmatic' may be the wrong word - he is very reasoned, very reasonable. It could be that I am just not very comfortable with the emphasis he puts on the whole concept of 'karma.' I would not throw out the idea that we have lived before precisely, but to my mind, where charts are interpreted with the given that we are bringing over karma from other lives, then somehow that can invalidate certain areas of life, to my mind.
 
I do like his "Astrology...4 Elements" book, and his over-all open attitude about things astrological. However, at least along the elements line, his book should be followed up by (what I consider to be) a deeper study, that is, Greenbaums "Temperament" book.

Thank you for recommendation.
I can see that the book is also recommended on Skyscript.com. - the website that I really appreciate.


Best,
Ile
 
'Dogmatic' may be the wrong word - he is very reasoned, very reasonable. It could be that I am just not very comfortable with the emphasis he puts on the whole concept of 'karma.' I would not throw out the idea that we have lived before precisely, but to my mind, where charts are interpreted with the given that we are bringing over karma from other lives, then somehow that can invalidate certain areas of life, to my mind.

Thanks for your explanation Nexus. :)

Best,
Ile
 

tikana

Well-known member
Hi Tikana,
I haven't met fatalist in my life. Interesting..What do you think, who or what create our destiny and how is that related to our birth chart? In what believe fatalists?

Ile


hi

Abraham Lincoln was a fatalist.
http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/jala/18.1/guelzo.html
there is a story that 2-3 weeks prior to his assasination he kept seeing dreams of him being dead. Same dreams were occuring with Abe's wife.
Supposevely, he knew he would be assasinated on Good Friday. He went with his business and no additional guards were with him. Abe was not only a fatalist but he was heavy into determanism. He knew he would be assasinated yet did nothing to stop it .. that is Determanism. Would i do the same? No, but the thought that i would be assasinated one day in the future would not leave my mind. It probably would happen regardless.

I am Stoic / Agnostic / Fatalist (Amor Fati) latin for "love of fate"

Do i believe in supreme being? Not really I am agnostic "I cannot know whether a deity exists or not, and neither can you." i do believe in fate. Also Stoi

Famous Stoics Zeno of Citium' and Seneca had explained that fatalism is the view that your choices are free but irrelevant to your fate. Act however you wish, you cannot avoid your fate.

i strongly believe that your chart is your beginning and your end. I also believe that life is a prison sentence for life. You can only reach a certain point and yet your soul is forever entombed within your prison cell. You are almost never free.

i hope this explains

T
 
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hi

Abraham Lincoln was a fatalist.
http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/jala/18.1/guelzo.html
there is a story that 2-3 weeks prior to his assasination he kept seeing dreams of him being dead. Same dreams were occuring with Abe's wife.
Supposevely, he knew he would be assasinated on Good Friday. He went with his business and no additional guards were with him. Abe was not only a fatalist but he was heavy into determanism. He knew he would be assasinated yet did nothing to stop it .. that is Determanism. Would i do the same? No, but the thought that i would be assasinated one day in the future would not leave my mind. It probably would happen regardless.

I am Stoic / Agnostic / Fatalist (Amor Fati) latin for "love of fate"

Do i believe in supreme being? Not really I am agnostic "I cannot know whether a deity exists or not, and neither can you." i do believe in fate. Also Stoi

Famous Stoics Zeno of Citium' and Seneca had explained that fatalism is the view that your choices are free but irrelevant to your fate. Act however you wish, you cannot avoid your fate.

i strongly believe that your chart is your beginning and your end. I also believe that life is a prison sentence for life. You can only reach a certain point and yet your soul is forever entombed within your prison cell. You are almost never free.

i hope this explains

T

Thank you for your explanation.
But my question is still: Who or what Decide of ones Fate?
Who is the Creator of that Fate of mine?


Best,
Ile
 

Tora

Well-known member
Let's put it this way, some people do know what's going to happen to their life. For example, Princess Diana and Michael Jackson, both were very intuitive people, knew that they were going to get killed and there was nothing they can do about it even with all the money, power and bodyguards they had. Having said this fear not of what you may experience in your life because whatever is destined for you is part of a bigger picture. I suppose crude way to describe it is that some people might want to be a film star, princess or just plain rich but there has to be average cashiers and cleaners to make the world go around as well. We all have a part. Yeah, you may feel pissed about drawing a short straw however. That's why capable psychics can sort of 'foresee' events because there is no time when it comes to universe. Everything is all planned out. We are bounded by physical law and restricted in a sense in this world but we have access to past and future right now if you know how to.

This is why Horary astrology works and can give you a very accurate answers.

Let's say you didn't know anything about astrology and at the age of 30 you look into your chart for the first time and trace back what happened in your life; you would find you've lived what your chart promised even without influenced by astrologer's interpretation.

When people say Fate.... is like a big thing. It doesn't has to be a big event. Fate is happening every day, small thing like that new friend you've met yesterday or seemingly meaningless sentense uttered by your colleague today... which may turn out to be a big thing later etc etc...
 
Ok everyone has his own truth. Truth is what is true for you. I respect yours. I have a different one.
I think that the chart shows basic characteristics of a man (his temperament and way of expressing him self) and his start points to building (creating) his life. I'm not fatalist cause, in the first place, I can't explain Who? or What? has created my fate. But I do know that I can create my destiny through conscious actions and intentions. I read that Yogananda was a deep knower of the Astrology but in one occasion he chalenged the astrologers to point out the most difficult transit points in his chart in which there are alarming notes to not take any kind of actions (in that period). They do that, and Yogananda says that even though he had some difficulties in doing that actions, with the power of will he did all this actions in a proper maneer.
So, I think that the more one becomes aware and his counscesness it becames wider he is less predictable (like Arroyo says, and I think that here is his "dogmatic" part on which Tikana pointed out).


Best,
Ile
 
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tikana

Well-known member
Let's put it this way, some people do know what's going to happen to their life. For example, Princess Diana and Michael Jackson, both were very intuitive people, knew that they were going to get killed and there was nothing they can do about it even with all the money, power and bodyguards they had. Having said this fear not of what you may experience in your life because whatever is destined for you is part of a bigger picture. I suppose crude way to describe it is that some people might want to be a film star, princess or just plain rich but there has to be average cashiers and cleaners to make the world go around as well. We all have a part. Yeah, you may feel pissed about drawing a short straw however. That's why capable psychics can sort of 'foresee' events because there is no time when it comes to universe. Everything is all planned out. We are bounded by physical law and restricted in a sense in this world but we have access to past and future right now if you know how to.

This is why Horary astrology works and can give you a very accurate answers.

Let's say you didn't know anything about astrology and at the age of 30 you look into your chart for the first time and trace back what happened in your life; you would find you've lived what your chart promised even without influenced by astrologer's interpretation.

When people say Fate.... is like a big thing. It doesn't has to be a big event. Fate is happening every day, small thing like that new friend you've met yesterday or seemingly meaningless sentense uttered by your colleague today... which may turn out to be a big thing later etc etc...

Tora

Abe Lincoln knew of his assasination but DID NOTHING to stop it.
Julius Ceasar was warned through his dreams as well. As a matter of fact, he was given a note as he went to the Forum and supposvely he said to the person who brought him a note and said that You will die today. Julius Ceasar said I know I will.
Elvis Prestley knew he would die young but did nothing to stop it
I am not a celebrity but i know when something about to happen. A lot of times timing is WAY OFF!

T
 

Tora

Well-known member
I read that Yogananda was a deep knower of the Astrology but in one occasion he chalenged the astrologers to point out the most difficult transit points in his chart in which there are alarming notes to not take any kind of actions (in that period). They do that, and Yogananda says that even though he had some difficulties in doing that actions, with the power of will he did all this actions in a proper maneer.
So, I think that the more one becomes aware and his counscesness it becames wider he is less predictable (like Arroyo says, and I think that here is his "dogmatic" part on which Tikana pointed out).

Best,
Ile
Period like tr Pluto on Asc or SN period (in traditional) is known not a time to initiate as it is a period of purging, cleansing out of your life, getting rid of stuff and you are powerless. Do you know the power of Pluto? Pretty forceful, powerful and no arguing about it. So should one decided to start something e.g. business or relationships etc... of course you can start with your 'will' but it will only be taken away again and again if it is not meant to be. Only the right path/action set for you will survive but with difficulty. Therefore it is better to wait until spring comes along. So therefore, general direction has already been set.
 
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