Out of Sign Aspects

Hello all,

Can anybody give me some insight on out of sign aspects? I have six of them; including the two luminaries. I've heard that their energy is lessened being out of sign; and I've also heard that their energy is just as strong. I'd like to hear some feedback on this. I've heard that the squares are easier to function in because of their aspects being in complimentary signs. Thanks much


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Moonvoid, hi! The traditional astrologers do not consider an out of sign aspect as a valid aspect. Modern astrologers do and the strength is depending on the sign these planets are in and how these two planets themselves are placed in their sign.
If you have a Venus in Capricorn where she is actually not very happy, in trine with a Mars in Taurus where Mars is in detriment, then that trine, even though it is in Earth signs, is not a very positive trine. In fact, it is a very weak one.
Now should this trine be between Venus in Pisces, where she is exalted and Mars in Cancer, where he rules the triplicity by day and night, then the trine will be much stronger, notwithstanding the fact that Mars in Cancer is also in his fall.(personally I never really got that duplicity with Mars in Cancer.)

OK, now for the out of sign trine. Venus in Capricorn, not very strong, except when she rules the triplicity (in a day chart), trines lets say Mars in Gemini. Here Mars is a bit stronger in sign, he has some dignity in term and face (traditionally). Modernly you could see in which decanate Mars is (1st 10°Gemini, next 10° in Libra, last 10° Aquarius) and see where he is stronger or weaker. Libra is the worst of course because traditionally as well as modernly a Mars in the relationship sign is not really good.

Going back to our example. So the trine to Mars in Gemini is not too bad, but should Mars be in Libra, then we have another weak trine. Not only a conflicting element (earth-air) but also a weakened Mars (in detriment).
An Earth-Fire trine is worse btw. Earth works better with air than fire.

So just look at those individual strength and then see how strong or weak that good aspect could be. With a square it is of course even more important. With an opposition you can still find a balance, even when one of the planets is not too happy in it's sign.

Hi moonvoid,
6 out-of-sign aspects is, indeed, a lot. You might want to have a look at the natal orbs to see if you can lose any of them . This is especially so with aspects between planets that are listed with more than 4-8 degree orbs between them according to type of aspect, or when one planet never reaches exactitude via progression with another, or when one planet moves further 'out' of orb to another instead of closer 'into' it.
It can make initial understanding and interpretation of an aspect a lot easier and clearer.
There are many rebels within astrology who treat every planet's position as 'meaningful'; i.e. in its having a reason for being in the sign it is in and aspects it makes, so do not work with the traditional approaches as explained by starlink.

Frisiangal

I do use out-of-sign aspects, but with a very small orb. This is my reasoning:
When a planets crosses into a new sign, I "feel" the energy shifting both right before, and right after it crosses into the new sign. Many people born right on the cusp will display both signs' energies. My youngest daughter was born on the Cusp of Cancer and Leo. She has no other planets in Cancer, yet she displays many Cancer qualities -mostly Leo, but some Cancer.

Therefore, I feel that there can be a mix of the signs qualities within about a 1 degree orb +/- of the sign cusp. So, if you had the Moon at 29' Libra, and Saturn at 1 degree Pisces, that is the maximum orb I'd use for an out-of-sign trine. I might use a little bit more orb if it was a conjunction, with a heavy-hitter involved, and if it was applying. I'm of the belief that a conjunction carries with it alot of power, and justifies a wider orb.

The ancient astrologers (hellenistic) considered out of sign aspects if the orb was no greater than 3 degrees

The ancient astrologers (hellenistic) considered out of sign aspects if the orb was no greater than 3 degrees

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I did not know that. I thought Frank (not totally sure if it was him) once wrote that out of sign aspects were not taken into consideration. Thanks Mr.Stellium.

Mr stellium said:

The ancient astrologers (hellenistic) considered out of sign aspects if the orb was no greater than 3 degrees

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That's very interesting - maybe I was intuitively doing something right!

I live with an out of sign aspect; 25+1+Retro. More than 6* and I am convinced that it works!! So many 'aspects' regarding traits and circumstances of my life, that I carry with me like a shoulderbag I still struggle 'to shrug off' for good, are a verification of that square. I'm fortunate that I don't live with a chart full of difficult aspects, so I know that there is not one that I am overlooking that should be considered instead.

I've always thought that the reason it works is because during my lifetime sec. progressed moved into to eventually reach exactitude of the square. It's now out of orb on 3+. Sec. progr. had long turned direct and was at its natal position again as moved out of orb.

Frisiangal

Frisiangal said:

I live with an out of sign aspect; 25+1+Retro. More than 6* and I am convinced that it works!! So many 'aspects' regarding traits and circumstances of my life, that I carry with me like a shoulderbag I still struggle 'to shrug off' for good, are a verification of that square. I'm fortunate that I don't live with a chart full of difficult aspects, so I know that there is not one that I am overlooking that should be considered instead.

I've always thought that the reason it works is because during my lifetime sec. progressed moved into to eventually reach exactitude of the square. It's now out of orb on 3+. Sec. progr. had long turned direct and was at its natal position again as moved out of orb.

Frisiangal

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That's very interesting, Frisiangal. I guess there's nothing like experience. I like your theory of it working because of the Progression becoming exact. I'm guessing then, it would not work at this degree orb if it was a separating square? I couldn't wrap my mind around the way you wrote the symbols, so am assuming it was an applying square.

freedomlover said:

That's very interesting, Frisiangal. I guess there's nothing like experience. I like your theory of it working because of the Progression becoming exact. I'm guessing then, it would not work at this degree orb if it was a separating square? I couldn't wrap my mind around the way you wrote the symbols, so am assuming it was an applying square.

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Yes, the square is applying from Saturn end Gemini TO Neptune begin Libra.

I had to scratch my head and think hard as to what a separating aspect in an out of sign aspect would imply. E.g. an hypothetical Saturn on 4* of a sign to Neptune on 28* of another, with Neptune ahead on the zodiac wheel.

My personal view is that, even though Saturn is separating further from Neptune through direct progression, I would still consider the aspect to be in orb and active natally, as Neptunian issues represent 'the buffer' that Saturn always comes up against and contends with on a societal/ collective scale, according to the nature of the aspect. There is a theory that, in such instances, the nature of the separating planet is actually aware of these confrontational issues (from birth?) and is able to deal with them in a more adequate fashion than the nature of the applying aspect, who has to confront the issue(s) involved BEFORE they are able to deal with them.

If Saturn was ahead in the signs and 'dragging along' Neptune behind it in the out of sign aspect, I'd still consider the 6 degree orb for major aspects as relevant in natal influence.

In each case I think the transits of Saturn would be of prime importance, although not so much in the progressions, as I have experienced with the applying Saturn to Neptune aspect.

Regards,

Frisiangal