Virgos and OCD

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
Re: An Accidental Astrodienst Discover

It is not my intention to offend anyone with this discussion; in fact, I primarily created this new thread because I am of the opinion that there is less of a correlation between Virgos and OCD than modern interpretations for this sign suggests.

or must have at least five planets and their Ascendant in Virgo! LOL!

This description sound a lot like Tim's chart! Tim, are you an Android? :D

Seriously, though, I'm beginning to suspect that Virgos are not quite as obsessive as we often peg them to be; I've never seen Tim fret about his own chart, for example, although it seems that quite a few of his planets could change houses if you tweaked the time a bit...

On the other hand, I only have a Virgo South Node, but I can't seem to stop thinking about my birth time.

Arian Maverick
 
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athan

Well-known member
Re: An Accidental Astrodienst Discover

''Seriously, though, I'm beginning to suspect that Virgos are not quite as obsessive as we often peg them to be''

That's right AM

I am beginning to believe that Virgos are very sloppy, disorganised and cool but they hide it ...so efficiently well
 
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Derestanne

Well-known member
Re: An Accidental Astrodienst Discover

Careful....you might be getting personal!

I was born August 25th. When I was younger I was more obsessive and compulsive about neatness and order (don't blame me - it was the Saturn in my 1st House).

Now that I'm over the hill, my Neptune in my 1st House has taken over. I've become very talented at slipping all the junk under the carpet so you can't see a single bulge!

Actually, my wife has Virgo Rising, so I can't get away with leaving a hair on the bathroom floor. My wife now substitutes for tired old Saturn in my 1st House! When Virgo's are too old to maintain order and disciplne they have a mate that keeps them in line!

Really, if you want to inspect for disorder, find anybody with three or more planets in Sagittarius. They hate housework so much they would rather hire a maid even if they don't earn very much money!
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
Re: An Accidental Astrodienst Discover

Careful....you might be getting personal!

What are these forums for, if not for getting personal? :p

I was born August 25th. When I was younger I was more obsessive and compulsive about neatness and order (don't blame me - it was the Saturn in my 1st House).

I used to be obsessive compulsive as well, and I still am to some extent, but more about the quality of my school work than the neatness of my bedroom or office. In fact, both of them tend to suffer when finals roll around! :rolleyes:

I know this conversation really needs to be moved to another thread, but as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm really starting to doubt the Virgo-OCD stereotype that's become so prevalent. I don't generally inquire into people's business in such a direct manner, but I almost wish I could somehow take a poll of those who have ever experienced symptoms of OCD in its true form (i.e. obsessive thoughts that are actually followed by certain behaviors such as hand-washing or "checking") and not just the common usage of the term as applied to an individual who values cleanliness and order.

There's a huge difference between preferring organized surroundings and doing one's utmost to maintain impeccable neatness and actually needing it to be this way for one's wellbeing. Not to mention that OCD can manifest in other ways as well, such as rituals--some of which seem almost Libran (i.e. the need to "balance" or experience a certain sensation on both sides of the body).

Don't mind me, I love psychology and am taking an Abnormal Psych class next semester :)

Arian Maverick
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
But is OCD an entirely Virgoan influence?

As I mentioned earlier, I don't typically inquire into these things, but if someone happens to bring it up in conversation, I latch onto it and usually attempt to get natal data.

Unfortunately, I haven't amassed a respectable database of charts employing this "polite" method; I only have one chart to study besides my own, and I must take this person's word as I have not seen any sign of OCD behavior in him. This could be coincidence, but he had an Aries stellium even larger than my own as well as the configuration I sometimes call "the double yod," in which two yods are "connected" through one of their sides. I've often heard of yod configurations being described as inclining one towards "obsessive" or "compulsive" behavior, but I'm sure there's more.

Interestingly enough, Pluto in Virgo is the apex planet of one of his yods; the only other planet in Virgo is Jupiter.

Which makes me wonder--is the outer planet Virgo influence enough to bestow someone with these characteristics, or must these planets be highlighted in some way? Surely not everyone born under a particular outer planet transit will display obsessive compulsive behavior...

It seems reasonable enough to assume that one must possess an obsessive mind that latches onto details and wishes to control all aspects of a particular situation; such an individual may engage in rituals in order to restore some semblance of control into his life, although ironically, he ends up relinquishing control of his behavior. I believe control is a key word here, and the sign that most of us immediately equate with this keyword is Scorpio, and by extension, Pluto.

Do you suppose, then, that a Mercury-Pluto contact is likely?

Again, the more I think about this, the less I associate Virgo with OCD, although I wouldn't mind someone proving me wrong :)

I wouldn't immediately associate Libra with such characteristics, but as I mentioned earlier, I've noticed that "balance" is often a large component of the compulsive behaviors; I believe a lot of individuals need to do things in even numbers, or else always land with a particular foot on the top or bottom stair. I imagine that someone with a particularly difficult case may need to have everything in his home balanced, down to the number of pillows on each side of the couch or bed. Yet I'm still unsure exactly how Libra figures into this equation, if it does at all. Perhaps there could be some kind of "exchange" between Libra and Scorpio influences, such as Mars in Libra or Venus in Scorpio? Interestingly, both of these positions are traditionally considered to be "weak" or else not as powerful as Mars or Libra in its own sign, which is understandable. Yet I imagine that a strongly placed Mars in particular would not make one immune of obsessive thinking--quite the contrary, I would imagine, especially if Mars was tied in with Mercury or if either planet was afflicted in some way.

Arian Maverick
 
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wilsontc

Staff member
control and OCD, to Maverick

Maverick,

It seems to me that OCD (obsessive compulsory disorder) is all about needing to be in "control" of things. So the OCD person does things again and again as a way of controlling the RESULT...but not simply for the sake of doing them again and again. Using this as idea I think of the "control energy" Scorpio, Pluto, and 8th house as being more strongly linked to OCD rather than the "routine energy" of Virgo (also 6th house and Mercury). So if a person has a lot of planets in Scorpio, a strong Pluto, or a strong 8th house, they COULD be someone who has OCD possibilities.

Possibly,

Tim
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
Re: control and OCD, to Maverick

Virgo's tend have a "perfect" syndrome. Even if something is perfect they will split hairs to gain extra effeciency out of the system. This may become obsessive, this may become compulsive and this may become obsessive compulsive.

Please note the distinction between OCD (the D being for Disorder) and OC Personality type. OCD is an extreme sense of diagnoses and one which is included in a wide range of other dual diagnoses in the case of mental health.

The most common behaviours with Obsessive Compulsive temperaments is to follow some early verbal parental drives to "get things right" to achieve the desired result in the eyes of the parent. The OC will feel alright in themselves if they achieve something to the standard which gives them a sense of recognition.

The OC will usually be a very good thinker and productive in their use of control towards some purpose. When things get tough the OC gets cleaning (or other behaviours).

When you think about being perfect, Virgo's do tend towards that kind of behaviour although the opposite can also be true. Think of Venus the trip ruler of Virgo and ruler of Libra. Venus in the right location (angular) and other indicators permitting can be potential ocd in the chart. Getting things perfect and striving for success is a lot of "doing" and organising etc. Not much fun and games left after that it would seem.

Mostly the OC person will not think they are doing anything "wrong" psychologically because they follow the books and do what experts say is "right". They gotta get it right and know they are getting it right.

Put it this way, I would want my heart surgeon to have a great aspirations for perfectness if I ever had surgery. I would want my wedding planner to be OC because I know they will do a damned good job.

kingsley
 

athan

Well-known member
well this proves to be a very interestring tread!!!

I have always wondered why I attract so many Virgos as friends. ok I have virgo 11th but that is not enough. no planets in there. I realise now that I have a yod me-pl-nept and mercury in the 7th. I think of myself as an OC person but I don't get the conection with Virgo. I like to analyse a lot verbally (but not in written form) but my mind is really chaotic and most of the time blank. I think OCD it's indeed about control and I have scorpio rising pluto in Libra part of the yod with Mercury and saturn conj MC...
sometimes I need help but it's rare the times I ask for help. that's where astrology comes and saves the day... I don't know. Any ideas?
 
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deanna

Well-known member
I have always appreciated the intelligence and efficiency of Virgos. At 43 my cousin just became a nurse - - which fits her so well with her Virgo personality. She is a very hard worker and keeps a spotless house and she always looks flawless (Virgos are known to take at least 2 showers a day).


Also a side note Virgos can be sometimes critical but at the same time they can also be critical and hard on themselves.
 

Pisceanfool

Well-known member
Well I would not say that having Virgo always leads to OCD. OCD is well defined and is really not just being a "perfectionist". If you want a chart to study then look at my own for i had obsessive and compulsive tendencies as a child. I would have to move my feet in a certain pattern at a certain spot on the stairs at my house... not step on cracks... constanty sniffing my hands and wanting them to be clean. I once crashed an ATV because i had such a strong urge to sniff them. Not fun at all it's a serious disorder, i have no planets in virgo but i may draw on the energy with all my pisces... i think it is because of Pluto mostly. I am resolving the polarity of the signs so i may very well carry much of it from other existences. I am definitly hard on myself, and am always finding flaws in everything.

Regardless, pluto/scorpio is very much the same with picking things apart and the power/control issues. The focus of pluto fits well with the obsessive tendincies as well.
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
When connecting two different systems such as psychology and astrology Pisceanfool, I believe one needs to look for the behaviours that might link similarities. In this case I have used the idea of 'perfectness' as symptomatic behaviour for both Virgo and OCD.

All Sun signs have the potential for OCD, that is, in the way the DSM1v describes that profile. But really, mental health disorders have an array of significations in the natal chart and as I have said OCD can be apparent with those who have other mental health conditions such as Anxiety disorders, autistic disorders, PTSD, Depressive disorders etc.

kingsley
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
But really, mental health disorders have an array of significations in the natal chart

I know the title of this thread is Virgos and OCD, but I'm curious; what type of significations are you referring to? Have you noticed any particular configurations as being indicative of mental health disorders--not just OCD?

Arian Maverick
 

windwispers

Well-known member
i have virgo in the 12th house

These natives tend to bring about their own downfall by excessive worry and nagging about trivial points. Their hidden support, however, is their ability to devote meticulous attention to secondary details that others may well overlook. The substratum of their endeavors is well planned and organized.The Virgo influence in your twelfth house suggests a strong critical nature present in your subconscious. It not likely you show this outwardly. Repressed anxieties can sap psychic energies. Even when being outwardly friendly, a critical tendency may be in play just under the surface. Virgo is associated with matters of health, and you may have strong interests in health matters and harbor secret concerns about health issues. Although you are spontaneous in what you express to other, you have probably spent a good deal of time thinking the matter through and rehearsing while you were alone before making your views public

i developed OCD when i was 14, was clinically diagnosed when i was 16 and given medication. i was deffinately meticulous, critical, and focused on what i ate, how long i washed myself, how clean my room was, blah, blah, blah...

this is my only virgo placement... i think like piceanfool said, it also may have to do with any pluto/ scorpionic energy in the chart... i happen to have pluto in scorp

i was wondering which sign, or aspect is most associated with depression?
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
Yes Arian Maverick, there are indicators for potential mental health issues in the chart. I am sure you are aware of the usual astrology suspects involved.

Moon-Mercury-Neptune-Saturn aspects and their placements in the chart are the main ones. Jupiter Saturn in the case of Bi Polar disorders.

A cause or underlaying symptom may be prevelant in the chart and then the coping style (same as defense mechanism) will be apparent. In analysing these things one might sense (please note my wordage- doesn't mean diagnose) the degree of mental health, that is whether the potential for neurotic, psychotic or other symptomatic disorders are possible. Where ever there is a very strong coping style represented in the chart as well as difficult aspects between the above planets mental health issues can be further investigated. Remembering that there are several levels of mental health too. Normal or Neurotic levels, Borderline and Psychotic. One of the first levels of mental health are dealt with by info groups or support groups, parenting or educational groups. The last level of mental health work involves pharmacology and in some cases hospitilisation. One could say to a certain degree that this forum is a mental health group. And all manner of understandings are being brought to the surface for individuals as they go about learning how astrology works and delineating their own charts.

Please note; that after long term therapy or other such interventions the person with mental health indicators in their charts can lead a very productive and happy lives. The sad thing is that the mental health system tends to let many people fall through the cracks or alternatively the the person experiencing mental health issues refuses/rebels about accessing any help. Fate falls amongst us which ever way we decide to travel and "thats life". We are all trying to work things out about our charts and how the future may unfold for us. Astrology really sets the mind into a "getting to know" mode. That is a good thing in my understanding.

Its dealing with the feelings that is a part of the next step.

kingsley
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
Hi Windwispers, it sort of all comes naturally for me now. Like a second nature perhaps. And its not that I have less to learn, quite the contrary. I guess I am an old hand at typing comments and responses on the internet. I certainly don't spend much time contemplating what I might comment on in a public way.

I am well experienced in dealing with certain subjects and how best to approach others; however I am not someone at the pinnacle of Psychological credibility. My expertise is more about people than it is about science and remaining structured in self to suit some ethical body's requirements is far from the truth.

I am just a normal guy who has learned much about himself through experience, astrology, and years of personal therapy and training.

kingsley
 
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MamaMinnee

Well-known member
Re: control and OCD, to Maverick

wilsontc said:
Maverick, I think of the "control energy" Scorpio, Pluto, and 8th house as being more strongly linked to OCD rather than the "routine energy" of Virgo (also 6th house and Mercury).
Possibly,Tim

Excellent observation, Tim!

I prefer a combination of the two. I think Scorpio/Pluto/8th is the Obsessive part, whilst Virgo/Mercury/6th is the Compulsive manifestation through routine activity. I have Sun/Pluto conjunct in late Virgo, as well as OCD... and you could eat directly off of my floors, any and every day.
 

smilingsteph

Well-known member
I wonder if that guy on that show "flipping out" is a virgo?
He goes through these homes with his fined tooth comb aka his eyes and goes ballistic!
 

windwispers

Well-known member
i'd say virgo in the 12th house, aspects between saturn and pluto, aspects between saturn and moon, and placements in libra (imbalance.)
i was diagnosed with ocd when i was 15... it was a very chaotic time in my life in which i had no control over, and so in order to feel some sense of safety, i developed obsessive compulsive tendencies in washing my hands, cleaning myself, cleaning my room, my food, everything.
i could wash my hands for sometimes ten minutes at a time and would count how many times i did it (it had to be done a certain way) and then start all over again if i somehow failed to do it correctly. my showers would last for hours because i never felt clean no matter how much i scrubbed myself. i would not go in my room because i had kept it so immaculate that i felt i was too dirty to be in it. i became consumed and depressed over things that were so simple for everyone else.
everything was draining, everything.
it came to the point where i would not shower for huge periods of time because it was too hard, and i just didnt see the point.
ocd is linked with serious mental, emotional and spiritual issues that i was strong enough to fight my way through.
i was also diagnosed with severe depression and had suicidal thoughts prior to the ocd, throuhout it and about two years after.

i no longer suffer from ocd, but i feel as if it is a ghost hiding in my closet...
that if i don't deal with my emotional issues they will manifest in some other way.
here's my chart if you'd like to take a look.http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r169/olivia666lilbitch/simplechart.gif
 

AquariusT

Well-known member
Virgos expect perfection and in most cases, they get it. However if it doesn't happen for them, they create it.

My Dad had a virgo moon and liked order, not perfection. My cousin has a stellium of virgo and isn't the least bit OCD. But lazy. In many ways.

But in my practice, yes the OCD people were virgo, or had a prominent virgo position/planet in their charts.
 
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Kingsley

Well-known member
Hello, its good to see this thread still active. I must admit that there is a lot of it about these days. OC behaviour that is. All astrological signs are potentially affected and people from all walks of life exhibit OC behaviours and thinking.

One must investigate the nature of the beast, what is underlaying these thinking and behaviours. OC behaviours are closely linked to depression and anxiety. Usually a move toward some repetivive behaviour and thinking is also to move away from some other kind of experience. I wonder what "it" might be that we wish to move away from? It could be the anxiety itself, or it could be an unpleasant kind of experience?

I like to call "it" the "It Monster". The move toward some kind of obsessive compulsive behaviour is moving away from the "it Monster".

Virgo's are a sign of people who relish fixing things, being practical minded, being analytical too. The Virgo person has in their nature to do something about a situation, fix it up or think about the situation until they come up with a plan. In a way the Virgo archetype can be helpful to all of the other signs by example in the case of OC behaviours and thinking;

If one is constantly doing and focusing on the obsessive function, the It Monster may be appeased. It just so happens that Virgo's look for good recognitions for getting things right, so the move for improvemnet can become exsessive when trying to dodge the it monster. At the same time in a natal chart, Venus on the angle will represent the potential to please and get things perfect too. Perhaps not in all cases, however especially when there are other indicators showing dysfunctional thinking and feeling patterns, a strong Venus will take over in the defense of the system.

I wonder what descriptions in feelings and thoughts you might attribute to the It Monster?

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...forum/imagehosting/thum_580148782c3b58fc3.jpg
580148782c3b58fc3.jpg

it+monster.JPG
 
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