My favorite things are religious debates...

chris

Well-known member
Is this simply Mercury in the 7th (debate) opposition Jupiter (morals, philosophy, religion) in the 1st? I love them because I always seem to win them. I believe in new age esoterica and arguing with Christians is always fun/funny because the only argument they think of is the Bible.

Is this simply Mercury opposition Jupiter?
 

RayAustin

Well-known member
Is this simply Mercury in the 7th (debate) opposition Jupiter (morals, philosophy, religion) in the 1st? I love them because I always seem to win them. I believe in new age esoterica and arguing with Christians is always fun/funny because the only argument they think of is the Bible.

Is this simply Mercury opposition Jupiter?


Hi Chris,
Jupiter can be a general significator of religion as you say. Merc/Jupiter does make sense in your context when we see the planets opposing from the 1st/7th. I would also factor in your 9th house ruler as well, as this also symbolizes morals, philosophy, religion and I think will give more detail than just looking at Jupiter. What I noticed is that the Sun quintiles Mars by one degree. That's very significant to me, and can show a slightly argumentative/competitive quality about your religious ideals.

Also your Mercury square Mars can show you enjoy debating, especially with Mars ruling the 5th house, which symbolizes the things we enjoy.
 

chris

Well-known member
Hi Chris,
Jupiter can be a general significator of religion as you say. Merc/Jupiter does make sense in your context when we see the planets opposing from the 1st/7th. I would also factor in your 9th house ruler as well, as this also symbolizes morals, philosophy, religion and I think will give more detail than just looking at Jupiter. What I noticed is that the Sun quintiles Mars by one degree. That's very significant to me, and can show a slightly argumentative/competitive quality about your religious ideals.

Also your Mercury square Mars can show you enjoy debating, especially with Mars ruling the 5th house, which symbolizes the things we enjoy.

I enjoy certain topics to debate about, but most of the debating I do (with my parents) is because their word is law and sometimes their word isn't the truth and they believe it to be the truth but it isn't. I also debate to defend myself from injustice.
 

Olivia

Well-known member
Is this simply Mercury in the 7th (debate) opposition Jupiter (morals, philosophy, religion) in the 1st? I love them because I always seem to win them. I believe in new age esoterica and arguing with Christians is always fun/funny because the only argument they think of is the Bible.

Is this simply Mercury opposition Jupiter?

Possibly also because they don't call and wake you up to tell you about their loving god who'll send you to hell if you don't believe in him?

Hate doing religious debates with Christians. Have yet to meet one who can read Hebrew, and only two who can read Greek. Oddly, neither of them tried to proselytise
 

chris

Well-known member
Possibly also because they don't call and wake you up to tell you about their loving god who'll send you to hell if you don't believe in him?

Hate doing religious debates with Christians. Have yet to meet one who can read Hebrew, and only two who can read Greek. Oddly, neither of them tried to proselytise

Oh, that's another thing they try to use, "You're going to hell."

Its funny they'd try to use that on me, because, I don't believe in hell!

They get mad when I tell them that XD
 

RayAustin

Well-known member
Oh, that's another thing they try to use, "You're going to hell."

Its funny they'd try to use that on me, because, I don't believe in hell!

They get mad when I tell them that XD

That's funny, Chris, I say similar things and have the same outlook. My ninth ruler, just like yours aspects Mars. I'm sure the 9th house afflicted/aspecting Mars shows individuals who are likely to reject religious doctrine.
 

Vagabondgirl

Well-known member
My ex loved to debate about religion. He was not religious though.... I found it a bit strange for that reason:)

He has like you SAG. ASC, but with mercury, Sun in sag. conj asc too. So maybe the same works for mercury opposite Sag. ASC?

And I guess Jupiter also in sag could be significant.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Shows how we are all so different: my Sun is in Taurus (9 degrees) in the (whole sign) 9th house (along with Mercury in later degrees of Taurus) and a late Virgo asc (with Mars and Saturn in the ascending sign) I HATE religious debates and flee from them as if they were the plague:crying:...
 

juicey J.

Banned
Venus ruler of my 9th (using whole sign) is in capricorn in the 12th house square to saturn in the 9th house. I too hate religious debates dr. farr. By the way what sign is your venus in?
 

Olivia

Well-known member
I dislike them because nobody ever changes their minds, so there's really no point in shouting about whose god (or lack thereof) is better.

But since we do have times when they get bussed in, I either get called and woken up (that alone is bad enough) or accosted on the street. If that happens, I'll usually babble incoherently at them in Russian and walk away.

With the phone calls, I explain I don't read the bible in English (I am capable of it, but hey, they don't know that...), so if they speak Hebrew, we can talk. If not, thanks, bye, my English isn't very good.
 

chris

Well-known member
They are lame, because there's no proof that either side is wrong or right.

Its not about proving how better one or the other is.

If you have ever argued with a Christian or a Mormon, you know the only argument they can ever come up with are hell and the Bible. Even then, there's no proof that either of those things are correct. When you successfully disprove their arguments, they get mad and call you the "antichrist" or the "devil."
 

waybread

Well-known member
Chris, the others have given you good information. My take on your question:

Religion is a 9th house matter. The ruler of your 9th house is the sun. Yours is in the 7th house, which can indicate long-term partners of some kind, as well as open enemies. The 7th house also includes lawsuits, so it can be contentious. If you enjoy a debate, however (vs. getting headaches from it) then we are looking at the verbal equivalent of a tennis partner. You have a very strong verbal Mercury conjunct Venus (an attraction principle) in Gemini in the 7th house conjunct your DC--indicating an orientation toward the "other", for good or for ill if debates devolve into quarrels.

If we look at Jupiter as indicating religious ideals, yours is very strong in the first house of your outward personality in its own sign of Sagittarius; but retrograde, you take things fairly seriously.

A couple of other places to look are the 12th house for mysticism and the kind of religion that inclines one towards isolation in retreats and solo meditation; and the 10th house for ecclesiastical authority. Here we note an assertive Mars quintile sun squaring both Mercury and Jupiter, which get us back into the above loop. But Mars conjunct Chiron suggests some pain in your assertiveness, no? See if you can seek wisdom in your debates, rather than hurting or silencing your "opponent."

Sagittarius rising can come across to others as Mr. Know-It-All, which is a turn off to others who have possibly thought through their religious beliefs, as well. See if you can put yourself in the other person's mental shoes, with your strong 7th house emphasis. It sounds like you live among evangelical Christians, but I am sure you are aware that other denominations of Christianity have very different approaches to both the Bible and their faith.

If you really are interested in religious debate, there are meatier intellectual pursuits than arguing with your parents who love you, or with people your age who may only be expressing what they have been taught in Sunday school. Hopefully you are university-bound and can major in a field like religious studies, philosophy, or pre-law.

You might also give yourself the challenge of reading the entire Bible, cover-to-cover. I started when I was about 13 even though I was raised by secular parents who called themselves "free thinkers.". It took me over a year to get through the entire Old and New Testaments, but it gave me a major grasp of arguments stemming from Christian belief and proof-texts.

If you really wish to argue with Christian friends, it is often helpful to quote your own biblical proof-texts back to them, or to learn what some of the more liberal theologians have written about the Bible.

I think the Bible as a very wise, and very troubling book in many ways. I read it regularly. The older I get, the more convinced I am that it was not meant to be interpreted literally, but metaphorically. However, most Christian and Jewish denominations do take its meaning literally.
 
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EhTeam

Well-known member
Sagittarius rising can come across to others as Mr. Know-It-All, which is a turn off to others who have possibly thought through their religious beliefs, as well. See if you can put yourself in the other person's mental shoes, with your strong 7th house emphasis. It sounds like you live among evangelical Christians, but I am sure you are aware that other denominations of Christianity have very different approaches to both the Bible and their faith.

If you really are interested in religious debate, there are meatier intellectual pursuits than arguing with your parents who love you, or with people your age who may only be expressing what they have been taught in Sunday school. Hopefully you are university-bound and can major in a field like religious studies, philosophy, or pre-law.


If you really wish to argue with Christian friends, it is often helpful to quote your own biblical proof-texts back to them, or to learn what some of the more liberal theologians have written about the Bible.

I think the Bible as a very wise, and very troubling book in many ways. I read it regularly. The older I get, the more convinced I am that it was not meant to be interpreted literally, but metaphorically. However, most Christian and Jewish denominations do take its meaning literally.

I completly agree :)

I have Venus(leo) Square Mars(scorpio) and I too can get quite passionate about topics, including religion.
 

chris

Well-known member
Chris, the others have given you good information. My take on your question:

Religion is a 9th house matter. The ruler of your 9th house is the sun. Yours is in the 7th house, which can indicate long-term partners of some kind, as well as open enemies. The 7th house also includes lawsuits, so it can be contentious. If you enjoy a debate, however (vs. getting headaches from it) then we are looking at the verbal equivalent of a tennis partner. You have a very strong verbal Mercury conjunct Venus (an attraction principle) in Gemini in the 7th house conjunct your DC--indicating an orientation toward the "other", for good or for ill if debates devolve into quarrels.

If we look at Jupiter as indicating religious ideals, yours is very strong in the first house of your outward personality in its own sign of Sagittarius; but retrograde, you take things fairly seriously.

A couple of other places to look are the 12th house for mysticism and the kind of religion that inclines one towards isolation in retreats and solo meditation; and the 10th house for ecclesiastical authority. Here we note an assertive Mars quintile sun squaring both Mercury and Jupiter, which get us back into the above loop. But Mars conjunct Chiron suggests some pain in your assertiveness, no? See if you can seek wisdom in your debates, rather than hurting or silencing your "opponent."

Sagittarius rising can come across to others as Mr. Know-It-All, which is a turn off to others who have possibly thought through their religious beliefs, as well. See if you can put yourself in the other person's mental shoes, with your strong 7th house emphasis. It sounds like you live among evangelical Christians, but I am sure you are aware that other denominations of Christianity have very different approaches to both the Bible and their faith.

If you really are interested in religious debate, there are meatier intellectual pursuits than arguing with your parents who love you, or with people your age who may only be expressing what they have been taught in Sunday school. Hopefully you are university-bound and can major in a field like religious studies, philosophy, or pre-law.

You might also give yourself the challenge of reading the entire Bible, cover-to-cover. I started when I was about 13 even though I was raised by secular parents who called themselves "free thinkers.". It took me over a year to get through the entire Old and New Testaments, but it gave me a major grasp of arguments stemming from Christian belief and proof-texts.

If you really wish to argue with Christian friends, it is often helpful to quote your own biblical proof-texts back to them, or to learn what some of the more liberal theologians have written about the Bible.

I think the Bible as a very wise, and very troubling book in many ways. I read it regularly. The older I get, the more convinced I am that it was not meant to be interpreted literally, but metaphorically. However, most Christian and Jewish denominations do take its meaning literally.

I do not live with evangelicals. I do not actively engage in these debates, It will just randomly come up sometimes in conversation. However, when they do, I get into it.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Chris, sounds like you are back-pedaling a bit! Religious debates have changed from one of your "favourite things" to something you fall into when religion "randomly comes up sometimes in conversation"?
 

cl0udmaKer

Well-known member
i believe in god and and hell and heaven but i thats just me, i feel a connection

with it you know what i mean? you guys prob dont but thats cuz ur not on my level :lol:
 

chris

Well-known member
Chris, sounds like you are back-pedaling a bit! Religious debates have changed from one of your "favourite things" to something you fall into when religion "randomly comes up sometimes in conversation"?

Well, they are my favorite things, only I don't instigate them.
 
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