Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

waybread

Well-known member
Well, to each her own.

Rudhyar was a kind of second or third generation theosophist, which in today's terms is more akin to evolutionary astrology. If you Google theosophy and the Golden Dawn you'll get the idea. If you believe in the Perfectability of Man [sic] by intuiting all kinds of mystical stuff by-the-numbers, then maybe Rudhyar is for you. If you're totally into Christ-consciousness or Buddha-consciousness as these might be shoe-horned into houses, signs and planets; then maybe Rudhyar will appeal to you.

It was noted on another thread that when modern astrology emerged ca 1900 there were laws in Britain and in the US against fortune-telling. Astrologers Alan Leo and Evangeline Adams both ran afoul of the law. Understandably astrology of personality and spirituality was on safer ground. But also preferred by the theosophists.

I found Rudhyar very appealing once. I got into astrology during a real crisis of confidence, and began questioning why I-- as this unique individual-- was on the planet. Rudhar has some spiritual guidance.

But when I got on-line in 2007 and began reading horoscopes for people, I found his books to be worth a lot less. People want to know about the practical problems of their daily lives: relationships, jobs, money, &c. They're not so interested in some kind of Illumined Way.

I also found that Rudhyar's notion that the goal of enlightened men was to rise above Nature (encoded as feminine) to be unappealing. Yes, he wrote most of his stuff before today's environmental crises were well known, but to me, that just makes him dated.

I don't see Rudhyar as a post-modernist. In many ways, his project was very modern: using humanistic psychology in service of the Perfectability of Man.

I don't see Rudhyar as post-structuralist. The horoscope is precisely a kind of deep structure.

Linguistic? Possibly, but I doubt it. Rudhyar's work is more like a lot of early/mid-20th century narratives about the nature of humanity, namely men. Some of these just don't hold up to factual evidence today. In Rudhyar's time, Social Darwinism argued that some humans (notably elite white guys) had an advanced potential unavailable to the unwashed masses.
 

david starling

Well-known member
So, after H12, it's back to "where it all began" in HI? Even so, you're still stuck with the Houses as they are in your birth-Chart , for better or for worse.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I "walked through" chilhood, then left it behind. True, I carry it with me still. But I can never return, so I guess that, allowing for some literary license, I walked through it.
 

waybread

Well-known member
The coursebook is online, it was written down by Saussure's students, and eventually translated to English: https://monoskop.org/images/0/0b/Saussure_Ferdinand_de_Course_in_General_Linguistics_1959.pdf

I think you'll find some astrological common ground with signifiers and signifieds.

Oddity, it's fair enough in astrology to talk about signifiers (cf. astrological significators) and what they signify. (Cf. the planetary ruler of the first house and what it means when it's in the 12th house.)

I have argued strongly on this site and others that a horoscope is a specialized kind of graphic language.

I just don't see Rudhyar taking this material and running with it. Where in his texts would you see it?
 

greybeard

Well-known member
All in the same day...

I get up, shower, have breakfast (4th house)
Drive to work (3rd house)
Work (6th house)
Go to the bank (2nd)
Kiss my wife (7th)
Read Dane Rudhyar (9th) ...
 

david starling

Well-known member
David, have you read his stuff? I would put him more in the "free will" camp, though this isn't a term I particularly like. Think about today's evolutionary astrologers.

I get very uncomfortable reading the "Authorities", although they usually have some good insights. So much is coming from their own, personal viewing-angle. I read something The Great Dane wrote about the 12th House that sounded like he believed you can "take the lemons and make lemonade".
 

david starling

Well-known member
They're interconnected: You wouldn't have money in the bank of you didn't work, you wouldn't have a place to shower and shave if you didn't have money, and you can study philosophy there, as well. It's about what Area your energy is focused on at any given time. You sound capable of very intense focus!
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Much of what Rudhyar says, although it may be true, is often expressed in a rather other-worldly sort of way...probably in reaction to the very worldly astrology that preceded him. His adherents, possibly lacking his vision, responded with one-sided excess. And so we got the rather wishy-washy "humanist" astrology that says "The stars impel but do not compel."
 

david starling

Well-known member
Much of what Rudhyar says, although it may be true, is often expressed in a rather other-worldly sort of way...probably in reaction to the very worldly astrology that preceded him. His adherents, possibly lacking his vision, responded with one-sided excess. And so we got the rather wishy-washy "humanist" astrology that says "The stars impel but do not compel."

That WOULD explain why 2 people with virtually the same Chart would behave differently.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I keep getting the impression -- I don't know why -- that you are a very young person who has not yet had the time to accumulate life experience.

A person who faces chronic degenerative disease, who has had a leg blown off in some war, who is addicted to opioids has no choice but to face the situation. No choice is compulsion. It isn't that he "is inclined" (impelled) to act a certain way; he "must", which is compulsion.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
As long as "my problem" remains in the realm of the unconscious it is beyond remedy and therefore compulsive in nature.

There are many things in life, both external and internal, that we cannot change. We are therefore compelled to deal with these things in one fashion or another according to the dictates of our individual being.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
It depends on your practice. Some techniques are applicable in a given time span and do not require extreme precision. But obviously yes, there is no 100% certain chart.

I saw an argument among Vedics as to whether the problem with unsatisfactory readings was due to incorrect ayanamsa versus incorrect birth-time.
 
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