Sorry, another relationship horary

Astraea

New member
Hi

I have been studying astrology for about a year now. I have recently started looking into horary and decided to cast my own chart and have a go :eek:

I had a relationship with a guy which ended a while ago. I asked the question if there was a possibility that we would get back together this year.

Here is the chart
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii98/mishaakita/horary-1.jpg

Here is my interpretation:-

My significator = virgo on the first house cusp = mercury
I believe I also get the Moon and venus as this is a relationship question?

His significator = Pisces on the seventh house cusp = Jupiter as the traditional ruler. I believe he also gets the sun?

I notice that Jupiter is in my 7th house and in it's own sign, where merury is in both its detriment and fall....hmmm he doesn't seem to like me very much. Being in my 7th house he doesn't appear to give me much thought either.

Then I see a glimmer of hope (I think?) Whilst mercury is badly recieved there, venus is exalted. Does this mean that his feelings are rather mixed? Along with the application of a conjunction from the Moon, I can also see that Mercury is applying a square to jupiter/uranus, which i interpret as a possible "yes" answer, but not without it's problems. I think I know why uranus is there but wont go into it now.

Mercury is in sagittaius , ruled by Jupiter = I still love him.

I would be very gratefull if someone could tell me if I am on the right track or if i need to go back to the drawing board :unsure: Thanks in advance :smile:
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
My significator = virgo on the first house cusp = mercury I believe I also get the Moon and venus as this is a relationship question?

Yes, that is correct. Mercury is your primary significator and the Moon is co-significator. Venus is a secondary significator. The Moon has also recently separated from a sextile with Sun, which makes Sun a secondary significator as well.

His significator = Pisces on the seventh house cusp = Jupiter as the traditional ruler. I believe he also gets the sun?

Yes, Jupiter is the primary significator, while Sun is his secondary significator. The Moon's next aspect is a sextile with Mars, which makes Mars one of his secondary significators too.

I notice that Jupiter is in my 7th house and in it's own sign

And that is also his 1st House. He's very much into himself.

where merury is in both its detriment and fall....

No, Mercury is merely in detriment.

hmmm he doesn't seem to like me very much. Being in my 7th house he doesn't appear to give me much thought either.

I think we covered that already. Mercury is in an applying square with Jupiter. Since Jupiter rules Sagittarius, Jupiter receives Mercury by Rulership. Effectively, Jupiter is giving Mercury persmission to operate, but Mercury being Detriment is unable to do much. At 26° Sagittarius, Mercury holds no Dignity at all, so Mercury is Peregrine, meaning Mercury is wandering aimlessly about not knowing what to do and feeling like a stranger in strange land.

26° Sagittarius is also a Pitted Degree, so Mercury has dug herself a hole and climbed into it, and now she can't get out of it.

Then I see a glimmer of hope (I think?)

Not in this chart.

Whilst mercury is badly recieved there

No such thing as "badly received." A Planet is received, or it is not. A Planet in the Rulership, Exaltation, Triplicity and Term or Triplicity and Face of another Planet is received.

, venus is exalted. Does this mean that his feelings are rather mixed?

No, Venus makes no aspects to any Planets, and Venus is also Cadent, so Venus has little power and probably indicates some change on the horizon.

Along with the application of a conjunction from the Moon

Jupiter and Moon are Planetary Friends, and Jupiter receives Moon by Rulership. This is a case where you'd actually have to look at an ephemeris.

Mercury is 58' from a partile square with Jupiter. Moon is faster, but Mercury is closer. Who gets there first? Because if Mercury closes the 58' before Moon closes and completes the aspect with Jupiter, then the rays of Mercury will cut-off Moon.

On the other hand, if Moon gets there first it will cut-off the rays of Mercury, and that's what you want, since it would void a potential conflict between the both of you.

I can also see that Mercury is applying a square to jupiter/uranus, which i interpret as a possible "yes" answer, but not without it's problems. I think I know why uranus is there but wont go into it now.

Uranus is meaningless in Horary.

If you want to include Uranus, we certainly can. Uranus blocks the light of Moon and the Moon/Jupiter conjunction is destroyed and so is your relationship. Uranus would also block the light of Mercury.

How's that?

There are 3 possible answers in Horary. When there is sextile or trine with perfect Reception, the answer is "Yes." Sometimes a conjunction can indicate a "Yes." This is one of those times (assuming Moon conjuncts Jupiter before Mercury squares Jupiter). The 2nd possibility is a sextile or trine with no Reception, or a square or opposition with Reception, in which case the answer is "Yes, but you'll spend the rest of your life regretting what you did and your suffering will be legendary." The last possibility is a square or opposition without Reception, which gives an answer of "Yes, it will happen shortly after Boy George becomes Prime Minister and marries George Michael in a private ceremony at the Old Bell Pub on Kilburn High Road in Queen's Park."

Mercury is in sagittaius , ruled by Jupiter = I still love him.

No, but your Moon in his 1st House would indicate that.

This is probably not an ideal relationship, since he would benefit a lot more than you do. I'd say you'll get back together briefly (probably sooner than you think) and then it will end again for the same reason it ended the first time.
 

Astraea

New member
Thank you so much for your promt reply. I am keen to learn and your explanations are very helfuk to this end. I hope you don't mind just a few questions.

The Moon has also recently separated from a sextile with Sun, which makes Sun a secondary significator as well.

I have not come across this in my studies so far. In this chart the Sun would thus be co significator for both parties. Is this possible? or allowable?


The Moon's next aspect is a sextile with Mars, which makes Mars one of his secondary significators too.

Is this a condition only determined by the Moons aspets? I thought that an interception of an perfecting aspect by another planet caused a "blockage" but in this case it becomes a co significator? If this is the case, is this aspect between the moon and Mars in this chart taken into considreation, or is the applying orb too large at this point?


Venus is also Cadent, so Venus has little power and probably indicates some change on the horizon.

What indicates this change?


Mercury is 58' from a partile square with Jupiter. Moon is faster, but Mercury is closer. Who gets there first? Because if Mercury closes the 58' before Moon closes and completes the aspect with Jupiter, then the rays of Mercury will cut-off Moon.

On the other hand, if Moon gets there first it will cut-off the rays of Mercury, and that's what you want, since it would void a potential conflict between the both of you.

The moon perfects first.


Uranus is meaningless in Horary.

Ok I will stick to traditional planets.

This is probably not an ideal relationship, since he would benefit a lot more than you do. I'd say you'll get back together briefly (probably sooner than you think) and then it will end again for the same reason it ended the first time.

You are probably right here. though could you tell me how you have determined time. I assume you are using the moon in respect to jupiter, and its house placement? I am a little surprised that you think it will be soon. I am also confused that it would end for the same reason, as it will soon no longer exist, unless he was being less than truthfull with me regarding those reasons.

Once again many thanks for your help.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
I have not come across this in my studies so far. In this chart the Sun would thus be co significator for both parties. Is this possible? or allowable?

Yes, and it's standard for 1st/7th House Matters concerning most relationship questions, law suits, disputes between two parties, conflicts, battles, contests, wars, buying and selling etc.

The only real difference is that for relationships we also use Venus for women and Sun for men, and in relationship questions (there are a couple of exceptions) the Querent and Quesited will always have at least one primary significator and one secondary significator. If Taurus is Ascending then the Querent will have only 3, Venus, the Moon and the Planet the Moon last aspected, unless Moon last aspected Venus, in which case the Querent would have only 2 significators.

Generally when the same Planet is the primary significator for the Querent and the Quesited/Matter it destroys itself. That would be most common for career-related questions where Jupiter or Mercury rule both the 1st and 10th Houses, or real estate questions where Jupiter or Mercury rule both the 1st and 4th Houses, and certain other questions where Mars or Venus could rule both the 1st and 6th or 1st and 8th Houses.

For secondary significators, we use Triplicity Rulers to distinguish when a Planet represents the same person or thing. For Sun in Capricorn in an Night Chart 1st Triplicity Ruler is Mars and 2nd Triplicity Ruler is Venus. I would actually give him the Sun, and then blend Mars and the Sun for you.

It takes a little getting used to and a lot of practice, but you just have to remember to clear your head a focus on the significator. Apart from the Sun representing you and he, the Sun also represents the father, authority figures, employers, managers and supervisors at work, male co-workers, credit, reputation and standing and a few other things.

The Sun being within 5° of the 5th House Cusp we'd read the Sun as actually being in the 5th House, which is his 11th House, so how do his friends see him as far as his reputation or standing goes? The condition of the Sun will answer that.

Is this a condition only determined by the Moons aspets? I thought that an interception of an perfecting aspect by another planet caused a "blockage" but in this case it becomes a co significator? If this is the case, is this aspect between the moon and Mars in this chart taken into considreation, or is the applying orb too large at this point?

Yes, all we're doing is looking for the Moon's last aspect, and it's current or next aspect, without taking anything else into consideration. We don't care about Reception, Blocking, Cutting-Off, Planetary Friends or Enemies or anything else. We just want to know what aspects were/are being made by degree by the Moon.

If the Moon is early in Pisces, it's possible the Moon made no aspects in the early degrees, so you have to back the Moon up into Aquarius to see if the Moon made any aspects there, and if not, then back the Moon up into Capricorn, and so on.

Even if the Moon is Void of Course, you still run the Moon forward through the Signs to see what aspect it makes next, and that Planet would be given to the 7th House/Quesited.

If the Moon is in aspect by Moiety orb or in a Partile aspect with a Planet, then that Planet is given to the 7th House and you don't need to look further.

If the Moon is in aspect by Moeity or Partile to two Planets, then you take the Planet that is closest in aspect to the Moon and give it to the 7th House/Quesited.

What indicates this change?

The House Type. Angular Houses indicate action. Succedent Houses indicate no change. Cadent House indicate change, especially when the Sign on the House Cusp is Mutable (Gemini, Sagittarius, Virgo or Pisces) or Moving (Aries, Cancer, Libra or Capricorn). A Fixed Sign on a Cadent House would suggest very slow changes.

That's why on an Electional Chart for a marriage you want a Fixed Sign on the Ascendant. A lot of action lasting a very long time, or a Mutable Sign. You don't want a Moving Sign on the Ascendant for a marriage.

The moon perfects first.

Well, that would be good. Moon and Jupiter are Planetary Friends, and Jupiter receives Moon by Rulership. That would be a case of perfect Reception and an example of a good conjunction.

Not all conjunctions are good. Jupiter and Mars hate each other. In John Wayne Gacy's chart Mars is applying to conjunct Jupiter in Gemini. Jupiter hates Gemini almost as bad as he hates Mars, and that would be like locking two sworn enemies in a room and giving each a fork and telling them they can come when one is dead.

Conjunctions are good when the Planets are Friends and there's Reception. When there's no Reception but they are Friends, like Moon conjunct Saturn in Pisces, it's like two people riding the bus. Neither really wants to be on the bus, but they can sit and talk and pass the time together. Venus and Saturn are Enemies as well, so a conjunct in Pisces, Scorpio, Gemini etc is really bad. In Libra it can be okay, since there's Mutual Reception because Venus receives Saturn by Rulership and Saturn receives Venus by Exaltation, so they might actually help each other.

Anyway, Moon will cut-off the light from Mercury which effectively blocks the Mercury/Jupiter square and you can avoid a conflict, and that's always good.

Aspects are separated at 6' of arc, but there is still some influence up to 1° of separation. A Malefic imparts fear, but a Benefic gives false hope. I suppose the latter is more cruel.

You are probably right here. though could you tell me how you have determined time. I assume you are using the moon in respect to jupiter, and its house placement? I am a little surprised that you think it will be soon. I am also confused that it would end for the same reason, as it will soon no longer exist, unless he was being less than truthfull with me regarding those reasons.

Yes, I am using the Moon. Timing is a little difficult. Unfortunately I was misled by bad advice for a long time and then after going through Bonatti and Lily I realized different timing methods are applied based on the Question, so now I'm going through Zael's On Times, to sort this stuff out.

It looks to me like it will be early in the year, as in before the end of the first six months, and not later in the year.

The Art of Horary is actually finessing the chart for all the gory sordid details so to speak. I gave you some hints and clues, you're smart, I'm sure you'll figure it out.
 
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