Assuming the Worst or Preparing for the Worst? Saturn.

How do you understand Saturn in your chart?
What Saturn experience(s) have confirmed or contradicted your opinion of Saturn?
Tell me why you love him, like him, don't like him, fear him.
Please consider this an open "Saturn Confession" and not an arguing post.
The Priestess Knows What's Hidden.
The Fool Never Hides.

I'll start (Aries MC ~ Leo ASC) ~
I think of Saturn when I see Ghostbusters 2 and the nerd accountant goes before judge asking mercy for the guys because he was turned into a dog by Neptune and they, Saturn, changed him back.
Delicious Saturn humor.
Every accomplishment in my life has involved Saturn. Every lesson has involved Saturn.
Saturn follows Jupiter and poop scoops Neptune.
You have to be cruel to be kind.
If moon is VOC at this post. If it does, then nothing is supposed to come of it. Yet we all have past due somethings, so maybe it will be?

Very cool.

In my experience, Saturn has always been less harmful than I expected (Saturn's return wasn't even nearly as painful as people tend to paint it). He is in a square to Venus which led to some periods of celibacy and loneliness (which I actually enjoyed in a twisted way, depressed way - I think Saturn-Venus contacts make one a bit prone to enjoying solitude and savouring sadness), but also to very stable and long relationships. I can't complain much. Saturn also taught me to deal with restrictions and to get stronger from them, particularly when it comes to my domestic life and my house, since it is in a wide conjunction to the Moon. The trine to my mercury gives me the capacity to express myself in a reasonable way, and also the ability to work with the written word.

Saturn also helps me deal with my Moon-Neptune square, that makes me very dreamy and unfocused, so when I really need it, Saturn comes to rescue and helps me focus and deliver what is expected from me, even if I get a bit confused and procrastinate too much due to Neptune's influence.

I think Saturn's blessings far outshine its problems.

I'm going to put it out there that I actually think Saturn is a "feminine" or "female" symbol. I say this because the life of a woman is much more ruled by time than a man's. There is a point in time when a girl becomes a woman, and a point in time where she may get pregnant, and a point in time where she may give birth, and a point in time where she will, if she has lived that long, no longer be a fertile woman, but something altogether different. I know people will probably argue with me that the moon rules women and all of this like menstruation, but that's cyclical, monthly, the way the moon. Saturn creates a prolonged sense of time which is a mirror-image of the life-cycle of a woman. Of course this doesn't mean men don't go through changes, I'm using the concrete to make a metaphor and thus a symbol, and to change the archetype of Saturn into female. Maybe some people will disagree.

Anyway, what's there to fear in Saturn? I guess if you have issues with confronting the passage of time, the objectivity and obstinacy of it, the fact that all good things must come to end, and that if you are born, then you will die. Or you could say that time heals all things, experience, which is of course, the passage of time, the greatest teacher, time reveals all things, with time we can appreciate the fullness of our lives, without time we'd have nothing to form our meaning around, no impending sense of fate, as time in and of itself, is a kind of fate. Time will pass. Whether you believe it is linear or not is something different altogether but I don't really know what to say on that matter.

So what's so bad about Saturn? Don't we all need a little, or a lot of time? Perhaps the issue is with the patience Saturn requires, the steadiness, the acceptance. It is both structure and flow at the same time. I wouldn't assume or prepare for the worst with Saturn, since the obligation of Saturn is simple: the passage of time and what time brings. That is why Mars is exalted in Capricorn, of which Saturn rules, because thus action is met with perfect timing.

If you're concerned with your Saturn, check out Mars, and Mars is doing natally. All of the outer planets are also highlighted if you want to explore your personal relationship with Saturn in your chart in whatever form, as Saturn is the last personal planet, thus linking these planets to you as the "gate-keeper."

MaeMae, funny you should post this thread, as I was thinking about Saturn myself this morning. I have natal Saturn in 8th, retro. Part of a grand trine with Venus and Mars in 12 and 4. Since I am still so new to all this, I can't say exactly what to make of that. If I had to make a newbie guess...Saturn is supposed to show us where our greatest lessons will come? In 8th, retro and peregrine, I would say my lessons have been about dealing with change that comes from other people's actions. Trine Mars? Restraint. Trine Venus? Responsibility and steadfastness. Inconjunct Mercury in 1st? Not sure, but I think that is why I am so good at keeping secrets...mine and everyone elses'. I am uncomfortable with the idea that if I reveal a confidence it will somehow come back to cause harm, either to me or to the person doing the confiding. Conversely, I have had some hard lessons around what I choose to tell others because yeah, it has come back around to bite me, lol.

I was thinking about Saturn transits, and how they affect us. As RockFish said, my Saturn return wasn't nearly as bad as people tend to paint it. My Saturn return? I ditched a go nowhere relationship, and ended up getting a great new job in a different field, climbing out of financial difficulties, getting engaged and married and having my first child. I enjoyed my Saturn return, lol. Saturn transiting my MC? I did everything right, devoted my life and pratically abandonded my family (conj. MC means opposing IC?) for my career and still couldn't make any headway. Plenty of lessons there. Recently Saturn transiting my 1st house (Sun, Merc, ASC, Jupiter, and Uranus if you are a modern astrologer) seriously sucked. (If that gets censored, it's the past tense of what happens when one uses a vacuum cleaner.) T-Saturn on the angles affects everything in your life, and those lessons are hard, and come dear. On the ASC? Means opposing the DC and man, I think I'll take conj. DC over opp. DC any day. And I can't help but wonder (since I don't know, lol) how much the condition (dignity/debility) of one's natal Saturn will play out in these transits.

I was also thinking, along the lines of what PersephonesDawn posted, that Saturn transiting the major natal Saturn aspects shows the ages we all (male or female) face as we grow. 1st Saturn square Saturn happens around 7, right? When we all are in elementary school, learning to read, how to communicate and play well (or not) with others, and just coming into our own...seperating from the mother and realizing that we are in fact individuals. Saturn opp. Saturn around 14 the age of Puberty (who here wants to go back and do that again?) Saturn square Saturn again around age 21 and we find ourselves on our own, just learning how to be adults...and how many people can you point to who get just stuck, right there? Then the Saturn return, which is supposed to be our growing up, and some more of us drop off at that point as well. I'm sure these ideas are not new, and have been covered by many authors, but I'm feeling pretty cool that I came to them on my own, without help, lol.

Anyway, done with the ramble. Thanks for the thread, MaeMae.

The work-of-Saturn (ultimately) is accomplished when we unite our mind and heart .

Saturn is 'limitation' but every choice includes a measure of limitation . Saturn is also 'school' . . . Saturn creates a structure in which we 'learn' (about the universe).

Saturn can be seemingly cruel or kind depending upon 'our alignment' with cosmic principles.
Someone signing up for a college class is entering a 'Saturnian' situation . . . a choice requiring 'study' discipline and performance.
My experience is that all of the astrological energetics operate in 'duality' . . .
Saturn relents . . . when we yield.

best regards,
Ion

MaeMae said:

Saturn follows Jupiter and poop scoops Neptune.

Click to expand...

LOL!

Yes, Jupiter says, "Go ahead and overspend your credit card this month. Something will turn up." Neptune says, "That beautfiul expensive jacket on the rack... it is calling to me. It wants me." Saturn knows that nothing unexpected will turn up, and that the credit card payment falls due when it always does....and at what rate of interest.

Saturn can show where and how we feel inadequate and not good-enough. But I believe it has been my greatest astro-teacher. The old-fashioned virtues that nobody particularly likes (except maybe hyper Capricorns) that pay off later in life.

Saturn can be Dr. No. But he is also Dr. Reality Check. Mr. Ground-Truth.

Jupiter says, "I think I'm in love! It's wonderful!" Neptune says, "His wife doesn't understand him and he is going to divorce her after his kids are grown and marry me." Saturn says, "Throw that two-timing bum out and get real with your life."

I find that the conjunction of Saturn with Neptune in my chart helps me keep one foot in spirituality and the other in reality; which through my experience has been very beneficial for finding balance within myself.

I am naturally reluctant to pursue structure and often resist attempts by family or others to steer me in that direction, i do value structure and establishment within ones life.. but i fear the responsibility that comes with it. My Sun is in opposition to Saturn, so my inner drive is not exactly aligned with the needs of Saturn.. i've always been a slow learner, i take my time with everything and i believe a large part of this life will be finding balance between the two.

thanks to all who have shared
I'd be remiss not to mention that Saturn has saved my butt in so many instances. With a Sun~Neptune square 7th to 4th and Venus in Pisces ~ when it comes to relationships, I'd be rat-f****d with out it. Saturn always asks, "...can it grow corn?"

Hello MaeMae!

Saturn, the planet of sobriety! What would we do without him saving the day, as you mentioned in your Ghostbusters 2 movie. He brings ventilation to a claustrophobic space. His influence is to lay the foundations for the rest of one's life. He comforts with reliant habit and daily effort.
I knew Saturn, like others with their Saturn Return. He has shaped me up, and shipped off the illusions that had led me to the darkness of underground in the first place. I was saved by Saturn because he stripped off the outward appearances and showed me the insecurities in people, whom I knew, and who pretended to be what they were not. Had it not been for his insights, I would have been lost in a bottomless well of delusion. Suffocation is his signal that life is in danger of entering a comatose place. He pulls one away from webs of wishes and pushes one towards attainable goals. As one works for them, one rebuilds confidence in moving towards wholesome satisfaction.

Thanks for replies!
Seems to me, personally, and from what I've read, that the understanding of Saturn, and his acceptance as beneficial, comes with the wisdom of age and experience. The host of folks that see Saturn as bad or thwarting are either young (under 30) or resistant to change. The irony of Saturn:
Resistance to change. Possibly due to Saturn's traditional rulership of Aquarius ~ "I want things to be different but I don't want anyone to tell me how ~ not even myself."
I don't believe we fully understand and appreciate Saturn until our 1st Saturn return ~ our 28 year old report card, of sorts ~ how has a random experiential life molded us ~ given us a glimpse of our own reality and called upon us to start living our life on life's terms.
How does that get taught through anything other than experience, really?
Saturn teaches us the basic principles of cause and effect.
Free will teaches us we have a choice in learning, growing, securing ~ or resisting, rejecting and never changing.
It's always bugged me when people create the image of Saturn as wanting to harm, stifle and belittle us. I believe he wants just the opposite, and that it's our own reality we've created through Neptune that keeps us stuck in the mud. Everything is the way it should be because we don't have the guts or volition to shake ourselves out of our own self-imposed ruts of believing and acting that nothing matters and what if it did?
Saturn mirrors Neptune's false image of life and self, only when he realizes there is no windex in the cabinet to make ourselves look clearer at our image.
But he knows that eventually a dusty, clouded haze on the mirror will be dealt with~ so he is patient.

Yes, you know it exactly, MaeMae. Saturn does teach by the "wisdom of age and experience" as you said. We come to see the meaning of thoughts and actions from the experience of going through and understanding them. I think people, even the young, understand Saturn when they have it prominently in their charts as an aspect as they too, would experience it and as much as at a daily rate.

You know, I look back on my life and do not regret anything, even the mistakes that Saturn showed me I made and mistakes that I had regretted making before. His message is more comforting than it may look at first glance. He's taught me that my mistakes were all part of this learning journey we call life. They showed me just what I can do to make a life that is worthwhile to me. Saturn leaves an indelible reminder on our person because it affects our most inner, timeless, and ageless selves.

For me, this is the 3rd time or so I am observing Saturn's affect on my natal planets. Its always been tough with me and each time I get tired and had to still be persistent the last 2 times. The tough part is my energy is drained.

Its retrograde is the painful one this time. Last time it retrograde I was busy running around doing things as best as I knew. But still I don't think hes happy with me. The last 2 times was when it conj my sun, then it conj my MC.

wearld said:

For me, this is the 3rd time or so I am observing Saturn's affect on my natal planets. Its always been tough with me and each time I get tired and had to still be persistent the last 2 times. The tough part is my energy is drained.

Its retrograde is the painful one this time. Last time it retrograde I was busy running around doing things as best as I knew. But still I don't think hes happy with me. The last 2 times was when it conj my sun, then it conj my MC.

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Yep ~ when he's retro, we are being asked to go backwards and tie up loose ends, clean up old messes, right old wrongs. usually conscience driven, but sometimes others bring it to our attention and it has to be dealt with.
i think the saturn drain comes from avoidance ~ for me at least ~ it's twice as grueling the second time around if i've ignored it the first time.

MaeMae
I think thats the tricky part to figure out for me. Ive done what I thought was possible. This is about work. The tough part was in front of me so I jumped in and did what I could do to tackle. I was definitely exhausted. That's when I'm thinking I must have the wrong area to work in.

It sounds like you have cast Saturn as your Shadow.

"The Shadow knows!"

Saturn has been very bad for me and my daughter. It is in Pisces in my 5th opp. sun and neptune in VIrgo in the 11th squaring jupiter in Sag in the 2nd and quincunx mars in Leo in the 10th. This indicates a disabled daughter who was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis at age 7 and has used a wheelchair since high school.

Retrograde trans saturn is conj my Libra asc. and my daughter is scheduled for heart surgery to replace an aortic valve. Trans mars retrograde is passing back and forth over my Virgo sun to add to all the stress. The same saturn is conj daughter's natal venus in Libra in her 6th house, ruler of her asc and 6th house.

So I do not like saturn very much.

Garden ~
I feel sadness but resolve, strength and courage in your words.
It would be interesting to see your daughter's birthchart in overlay of yours.
The Saturnian afflictions of joint disease and possibly Sun vitality challenges of your daughter sounds like saturn/moon/sun hitched rides in your charts.
you are realistic about it, dealing with the matters at hand, and still making progress. i hope that thatoffer's you a bit of regard for saturn and his merciful way when he knows the burden is heavy.
Have you considered posting your daughter's / your chart in medical astrology forum?
there are some interesting responders with magnificent information based on their years of studies.

Thank you for giving us a reminder of how Saturn works even when things seem unbearable.

Currently not liking Saturn.

Saturn is in 12th conj natal mars(progressed moon also conj) song' He aint heavy hes my brother comes to mind.' I have a well aspected saturn natally and it is well aspected now. But it is still Heavy!

my dreams are mental right now!

my natal saturn in 5th in pisces 27 is also rubbish but it does ground me a bit.trine neptune and jupiter. so reallly feeling the effects of all that now it is in 12th.

my brother has natal saturn in pisces at 3 degrees and his daughter also is disabled from birth. She is a source of constant joy to me but also a reality check. her saturn is 6 degreespisces in her 6th House. so I do emphathise with the previous poster.

caro ~ natal saturn in 5th in pisces could be very artistic, creative, even a compassionate performer.

Mm - never thought of that one! interesting take on it. with chiron conj saturn I always seen is as a 'wound'. trying to resolve it though.